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Arceus vs Chara (Remastered)

FateAlbane

FateAlbane

8,998
2,926
Since the last one was never concluded for some reason, I'm making this again.

Not taking sides on the debate here, will just count the votes.

Can the supreme God of Pokemo be the one to finally take down the Genochara?

Thumb-1920-736946
Arceus by mayayui-d5bp3na


Only thing restricted is summoning the creation trio. Otherwise everything goes. This is Complete Arceus vs Absolute Chara.
 
Sure thing, then (though it would be nice if you could quote one reasoning or another, just for the sake of rules).

Arceus: 0

Chara: 0

Inconclusive: 1 (Anonimoe7875)
 
I don't think Arceus can beat Chara because they have mid-glody regen and he likely can't use conceptual manipulation on determination because it already showed 2-A power and i don't think Chara can defeat Arceus because he have Immortality, Attack reflection, Non-corporeality, Statistics Amplification and Regenerationn
 
The more that I look at it, the more hax less Chara seems. While Arceus sure as heck can't kill him, incapacitation should be rather easy.

Also, Determination showed 2-B power with 2-A defense. Asriel's iirc not a DT user. I could be very wrong.
 
So is that a vote for Arceus?

Also I'm not entirely sure if we should scale Chara's determination to Pacifrisk since he actually went against a 2-A (couldn't defeat him, but...) and Asriel >>>>> Chara. Though I could be wrong on the first part, of course.
 
I'm willing to accept being wrong on that (it's been a while since I've beaten UT)

Yeah, it's a vote for Arceus, purely for incapacitation.
 
Yes, but DT users get stronger the more determined they become. Not sure if we could assume Chara would have the same ludicrous ammount of DT as Frisk at the end of Pacifist route (enough to be on a 2-A lvl of DT) seeing how all the other humans actually died without ever reaching something as high as these two because they weren't determined enough - they died to Asgore despite having DT. Like I said, I'm not entirely sure. Just bringing it up, just in case.
 
The concept of DT is 2-A not Chara

Also Asriel was gonna reset everything and he is a complete Flowey so yeah he is a DT user
 
Arceus have much more hax than the UTverse, even if he don't kill Chara he can make a bunch of other things to win, honestly this is a stomp.
 
Here's the catch:

Arceus needs to either A. Incapacitate. B. Kill for realz. or C. Uhhh...? Anything else that stops Chara, I guess.

The main point of the discussion if if Arceus can legit put Chara down through their "nearly unkillable state of being", otherwise it ends up as inconclusive. And this thread was made in the past, just never concluded after an extensive discussion. I won't stop you from voting Arceus but the conditions were accepted, so it's a legit match and not stomp.
 
Also what makes it even more debatable is that DT has 2-A showings against Asriel, which is a feat in a higher scale than Arceus so there you have it.
 
I'm pretty sure of Chara don't have even Resistence to Ice Manipulation, Paralysis or even Telekinesis. So please give me a argument of what Chara can make in Arceus.
 
I don't need to, since I'm not taking part on the debate. ROFL You can say Arceus wins by any means.

The only point I was making is that this doesn't need to be closed for stomp. Cal himself can atest to that.
 
Arceus for any reason above. I always try be more friendly possible but is really dumb don't consider a stomp when the opponent can't do anything, its like put Ban (Nanatsu no Taizai) against Goku (Dragon Ball) and say that ins't a stomp because Goku can't kill ban, putting a character only to be killed indefinely is even a cruel thing.
 
LeSword said:
I'm pretty sure of Chara don't have even Resistence to Ice Manipulation, Paralysis or even Telekinesis.
Click to expand...
You mean apart from being a non-corporeal omnipresent conceptual entity with no physical form to be frozen, paralysed, or moved around with TK?
 
Who are all weaker than him. Plus iirc Arceus only has feats of creating concepts, not altering, destroying or applying them to existing things.

Plus there's the 2-A Determination.

So how can he incap Chara? Specific examples please
 
All who are stronger than Chara though. Given that Dialga beat Flowey, who's>Chara.

Determination as a concept is 2-A. Not Chara. Death as a concept is High 1-B in DC Comics. Doesn't stop people like Black Hand from being slightly above Lantern level at best.

Dimensional BFR, chaos screwery, willpower screwery, time screwery, dream screwery, mind manipulation, etc.
 
Cross-vs-matchup-scaling doesn't work, so Dialga beating Omega Flowey isn't a good reason.

BFR won't work on a true omnipresent, seeing as where ever Arceus tries to send Chara, Chara is already there, and with Arceus, and everywhere else.

Dream screwery? What, gives Chara nightmares? S/he is the nightmare.

Willpower screwery and mind manipulation work though. But when has Arceus ever done that?
 
Bottom line is that the CT are in Chara's league.

It worked when Arceus did it to Giratina. And temporarily when Giratina did it to Dialga.

A neverending nightmare. And figurative.

It's only a matter of time. They have literally forever. And Arceus is kinda omniscient.
 
The CT only omnipresent in "their own space", while Chara is actually omnipresent everywhere.

Omniscience only matters in one's own verse. Against other franchises, it's actually a terrible intelligence feat.

Again though, when has Arceus ever done offensive dream, willpower or mind manip?
 
No difference? How is there no difference between a being only being omnipresent in their "space" but not omnipresent elsewhere, and a being that is actually omnipresent everywhere?

False? You can know absolutely everything about your own verse, but that doesn't mean you know absolutely everything about another verse
 
Not what I meant. I meant that Arceus is (easily) smart enough to know what's optimal. If people like Mega Man and Link do it, and it's a legitimate strategy.

Because Chara's not naturally omnipresent, like, at all. He has a physical body for most of the game, and only becomes omnipresent after he busts the multiverse.
 
Ah. Still though. When has he shown feats of offensive mind/dream/willpower manip? Plus Chara can't really dream, seeing as s/he doesn't really sleep anymore. Or have a physical body and brain to sleep and dream.

But s/he is naturally omnipresent once s/he reaches their absolute, which is what we are using here. And s/he's acausal, so what s/he was is irrelevant.
 
Not how it works, given that the multiverse gets restored anyway, and there's no void for him to be omnipresent in. In fact, I should make a CRT.
 
S/he is the abstract personification of game stats that exists throughout every timeline, and still exists in the void past the timelines. Sounds pretty omnipresent to me.
 
No, s/he exists in Frisk/The Player during subsequent playthroughs.

Also, if s/he were truly acausal, there would never be a True Ending, as they'd always be in Frisk.
 
S/he's with them. She isn't only with them

There is no "true" ending for this Chara though. Once the genocide run is done, they always have ownership of Frisk's SOUL, they are always omnipresent, etc

But I'll wait for your CRT on that.
 
Proof?

True ending is the happy, canon ending. The player is supposed to give up playing when Flowey makes his speech, and canonically does, according to Toby iirc. The s*** with Undyne The Undying, Sans, and Chara isn't canon. It's a possibility.
 
The fact that s/he's a conceptual entity embodying game stats that exist in every character throughout the game? "HP, ATK, DEF, Gold, EXP. Everytime a number increases.. that feeling. That's me". "It doesn't matter where, it doesn't matter when"

True, but its a possibility that we are using right now.
 
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