Ainz Ooal Gown VS Aqua(Konosuba)

[Litentric_Teon]

With speed unequal, this should be a stomp. With speed equal, this should also be a stomp.

Distance is the speed unequal case generates a situation where Aqua literally cannot win, so under SBA, the distance would be shorter regardless, hence why it's a stomp with speed unequal.

I don't think there's really a way to make this particular match not a stomp.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Blah, I litirally covered the "what-if" of her not being dumb.

 

[GilgaArcuied]

Some characters can legitimately fight people from that range though. If that's a thing they can do, it's a thing they can do.

Some can, but how many battles have u seen start kilometers away/outside talking distance to each other. It seems silly.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Most characters that can attack from kilometers away have done so. And every longranged fighter in the real world is dead if they let the enemy into close range.

 

[GilgaArcuied]

No idea what you're talking about.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

You have no idea about the conceot of sniping? It is a very common way to fight, and a vital one to a shitload of people. Sniping involves fighting out of talking range, and I have seen many people use it.

 

[GilgaArcuied]

I know what sniping is. Sniping is to take out a enemy via ambush. not a good comparison

how do one v ones begin? with a faceoff. not out of sight out of mind.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not a good comparison?

First of all, it is not a comparisson. There are many snipers who, shockingly, snipe. That's how they fight, period.

Secondly, yes it is a good exemple. This isn't a chivalry due or anything like that. Two characters try to kill each other. Most people with ranged attacks tend to kill an enemy at range.

 

[Wokistan]

Some can, but how many battles have u seen start kilometers away/outside talking distance to each other. It seems silly.

Officio Assassinorum

Sniper

Oryx, the Taken King

Widowmaker

AH-64 Apache

Pilot (Titanfall)

Nicol Bolas

The Lord Ruler (to an entire species, no less)

Ahzek Ahrima

Magnus the Red

Riven of a Thousand Voices

Great Lord Gwy (vs everlasting dragons)

I could keep going on, but you get the point. Range is a thing that should be discussed within the thread to keep it fair, but a lot of characters don't exactly fight fair. There isn't one answer to the question that's always gonna work.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Blah, I litirally covered the "what-if" of her not being dumb.

I know, but that's still just a result of character. Ainz is someone ruthless and cautious enough to use instant death right away, without hesitation. He's only winning because of that character trait, while most people in their situations wouldn't necessarily do that. That's why I wouldn't consider something like this a stomp.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not how it works. IF someone loses because they are too dumb, that isn't a stomp.

If someone loses 100% because the enemy has hax they are willing to use, ye it is a stomp.

 

[Shadran]

Why are we ignoring that Aqua resisted Vanir's insta-death spells multiple times? Also, we know demonic beings in KonoSuba have multiple lives (in the hundreds for high-ranking devils), why wouldn't it be so for divine beings? I think we can safely rule Ainz's instant kill spells as useless.

 

[FDrybob]

We know demonic beings in KonoSuba have multiple lives (in the hundreds for high-ranking devils), why wouldn't it be so for divine beings?

We don't assume abilities like that. She can only have multiple lives if she is shown to have them or if the author says so.

 

[ExelatronGX]

this already happened, Ainz lost, but had aqua used anything stronger than turn undead, ainz would have died for good

Basicaly...

A wild Aqua apears!

Ainz uses, Estimation....Move fails, you now underestimate your opponent hard...

Aqua uses, turn undead! Its broken effective!

Ainz has 1 HP, Ainz friends are all nearly dead or unconcious!

Aqua prepares Finishing blow!

Kazuma, uses Punch, Aqua has fainted!

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Ainz didnt lose tho, and he tanked her Turn Undead with no problem after a few seconds, but hey, Isekai Quartet is just a comedy show so not a good argument for Aqua

 

[FDrybob]

Ainz was just surprised how powerful her Turn Undead was; he didn't necessarily lose. In Yggdrasil, Turn Undead was a trash tier spell. The joke is that this causes him to think she's uber powerful. Either way, Isekai Quartet is non-canon.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

look as it is this thread is a stomp in aquas favor due to speed difference without that ainz immediatly grasp heart and kills her while she in character does something stupid like giving a speech which we know from ainz interactions with the dragons "I dont care for last words"

Kinda feels like either way this ends up a stomp. Either aqua speed blitzes or speed equalized she best case uses highest tear turn undead, which might (Doubtful but giving her the best chance here) one shot ainz but ainz than ressurects and uses instant death hax that aqua has no real way to resist or counter as they arent evil alligned spells....

 

[Blueicemonkey]

When did Aqua ever demostrate that speed?

Seriously, she gets eaten by shit-tier frogs that Kazuma can kill even at the start of their adventures. She is not massively hypersonic. Seems like horrible escalation.

 

[John985]

Please read this.

 

[Blueicemonkey]

As I said, it's a horrible scalation, specially when it comes to spells.


If you accept dodging a lighting spell as a speed feat, a Skeletal Dragon (a mid-low tier monster that's around lvl 30) can move faster than lighting spells in Overlord:

"Ohohoho." Though her balance had been broken, Narberal had not fallen down, her legs skillfully braced against the impact. Still, she had been driven back. This was a good chance for a follow-up attack, but the skeletal dragon remained where it was. Its job was to protect Khazit, and so it could not stray too far from him. After sensing this from the skeletal dragon, Narberal shook her hands to clear off the numbness and soreness. Just then, Khazit poked his head out from behind the skeletal dragon—


"'Acid Javelin'."


"'Lightning'."


Khazit launched a green, spear-like object that streaked towards Narberal's body. The javelin, which should have dealt her acid damage, stopped several centimeters away from Narberal's body and vanished without a trace. At the same time, the lightning bolt Narberal shot from her fingers was blocked by the skeletal dragon's tail and fizzled out. Khazit and Narberal glared at each other.


Khazit launched a green, spear-like object that streaked towards Narberal's body. The javelin, which should have dealt her acid damage, stopped several centimeters away from Narberal's body and vanished without a trace. At the same time, the lightning bolt Narberal shot from her fingers was blocked by the skeletal dragon's tail and fizzled out.''

-Vol 2


Same moment in the anime: https://youtu.be/_tc5popX3_A?t=169

And Ainz is massively faster than that.

 

[John985]

read the discussion on that thread.

 

[Blueicemonkey]

That's not an argument. Overlord also has lighting dodging feats, so Aqua has nothing on speed.

 

[John985]

to get that speed you need cloud to ground lightning, that's why I said read the discussion of the calc member on that blog.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Shouldnt this be closed? Its mismatch as one character can only win with a speed advantage and the other has a bunch of death hax.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

So I had this massive wall of text for this battle, but you just had to say "Speed Seems Similar".
No.

No it's not similar.

It's Massively Hypersonic with FTL Combat Speeds vs Hypersonic speeds.

AT BEST it's Mach 100 (Aqua) vs Mach 10 (Ainz).

Aqua would literally be 10x faster here AT LEAST.

She runs up and taps him and he turns into a puddle. He revives, he turns into a puddle again.

Pretty sure this is entering headcanon territory. Aqua is not that fast, in fact she casts as fast as a normal person shouting [Turn Undead], in fact she is so slow she was not able to react or cast fast enough before someone (Wolbach) teleports. While Ainz is able to cast a spell before someone (Shalltear) fully materializes through teleportaion, in other words instant cast. I've read both series and I hate to see something like this but I should say that Konosuba world and Overlord are not on the same level, Overlord anime does a bad job at showing how broken these characters are. Not too sound cringy but Ainz is just missing the title 'God' because anything Aqua does he can do better. Aqua's greatest abilitiy is being able to resurrect someone and bypass the 1 life per person rule but she can't resurect someone with no body while Ainz can, in fact in volume 13 he planned to revive people he's never met.

In every one of these VS battles with Ainz people fail to realise like just any RPG game where some spells/skills check the other person's level to determine how much damage the player could do, Ainz loses this limiter against people outside his own universe. So for example, spells/skills that have a 'CHANCE' at applying some effects will apply those effects 100% of the time unless the other party has a way to counter.

In a real fight Ainz vs Aqua their casting speed feats are not equal and their physical speeds are not equal. Ainz was able to dodge the hypersonic Shalltear while Aqua although physically strong in her own universe has not done any supersonic feats. Physically she is stronger than Kazuma and aside from that we haven't seen her do anything noteworthy, she had a chance to show off her physical strength by breaking open a metal cage but she couldn't despite her struggle, fans could say "she wasn't able to because she wasn't aiming for it", but I mean with as much as she struggled if she could break open that cage 'easily' she would have the same way 'Mitsurugi' did. Ainz himself hasn't down any good physical feats but at-least we know how strong he is physically (equal to a level 33 warrior). Gazef who should be a level 29 warrior was stated to be able to stop a runaway horse cart 'easily'. Moving on, Aqua would most likely die by Ainz first spell [Grasp Heart] and crush her heart instantly, something Ainz uses to see if the other party has death magic resistances/immunities, something Aqua was never described to have, not even the wikia that are her biggest fan would state she has an 'aura to negate evil magic' or if he is given knowledge of her beforehand he would likely not take any chances and use [The Goal Of All Life Is Death] special skill that removes immunities the other party has and it also buff his next death spell and he follows up with a death spell, let's say [Cry Of The Banshee] and unlike the game he used to play this combination now kills EVERYTHING including air and the ground itself.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

All of what you say can literally be put down in a couple of words.

This site practices death of the author a lot. What the author tries to showcase and what we actually accept as truth from events that happen in said show are vastly different things many times.

But just to be full clear I'll say more, Ainz or anyone he scales to hasn't shown anything beyond the speed we give him now, Aqua scales to evading an attack that looks like a ray of light and we have no reason at all to think it isn't one, so it's going at SoL, so she has to be FTL.

Either make a CRT if you don't agree with this, or don't argue that Acqua is slower than Ainz because of subjective perceptions you have from reading the series.

Not to mention you went into a bunch of head canon NFL about how Ainz works. No, he doesn't "lose" his chance to cause instant death. That's what the spell does, that's what we are told, nothing at all disproves this and we have no reason to assume it works like you say. So we don't do that, simple as that.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Again ignoring all this ainz either wins due to speed equal or losses to speed blitz why is this still open?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Hell if I know or care, I was just addressing why all he said really doesn't matter one bit.

You can request it to be closed in the Thread Closing Request Thread.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Ahhh thanks new here!

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

No problem, just justify why you think it should be closed. Don't be afraid to ask around if anything confuses you.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

All of what you say can literally be put down in a couple of words.
This site practices death of the author a lot. What the author tries to showcase and what we actually accept as truth from events that happen in said show are vastly different things many times.

But just to be full clear I'll say more, Ainz or anyone he scales to hasn't shown anything beyond the speed we give him now, Aqua scales to evading an attack that looks like a ray of light and we have no reason at all to think it isn't one, so it's going at SoL, so she has to be FTL.

Either make a CRT if you don't agree with this, or don't argue that Acqua is slower than Ainz because of subjective perceptions you have from reading the series.

Not to mention you went into a bunch of head canon NFL about how Ainz works. No, he doesn't "lose" his chance to cause instant death. That's what the spell does, that's what we are told, nothing at all disproves this and we have no reason to assume it works like you say. So we don't do that, simple as that.

That never happened. She did not dodge his death ray because she deflected it after hearing him shout [Vanir-style Death Ray] in volume 8 chapter 1, she heard his attack, casted something to deflect it then counter-attacked with purification magic. Citation needed or please don't reply.

Ainz casting speed feat is at-least something quotable if you've read volume 3 chapter 5 of Overlord or even watched season 1 episode 12 then you should have seen true FTL instant casting, she sneakily casted teleportation and before she even materialised Ainz had already cast ÒÇîDelay TeleportationÒÇìand the moment she materialised her field of vision was filled with ÒÇîDrifting Master MineÒÇì

If you want to mention his physical speeds then shalltear is massively hyper-sonic, Brain's ultimate attack is faster than sound, his 'great' achievement is to swing so fast that the blade has not a single drop of blood on it, of-course the author used the words 'lightning-strike' or "There was a single word to describe the speed of this movement — lightning". Also how I know its faster than sound: https://worldbuilding.stackexchange...sword-need-to-be-to-avoid-getting-blood-on-it

To shalltear this was turtle speed. Also another speed feat by Shalltear, ÒÇîMagic ArrowsÒÇìmade up entirely of light, she dodged and flew away before the light turned 90 degrees, chased her down and hit her. Volume 3 chapter 5.

Moving on to Aqua who casts at human speeds, proof? Every instance, not once was there ever a moment an inhabitant of that world was unable to hear her casting. Volume 9 she could not attack fast enough or cast fast enough to stop Wolbach from teleportation, this was the #1 enemy that gave them the biggest headache because of their ability to use explosion magic and have enough mana to teleport away. Something Aqua was powerless to stop either through casting or physical speed.

Also I've stated how Ainz works based upon his abilities, anyone outside of his universe would not have Yggdrasil levels, if you've read Overlord you should know some of his spells depend on the other person's level/equipment. The new world inhabitants only have yggdrasil levels because of an incident that occurred 500 years ago that warped the world's magic, there are being so foreign to the Yggdrasil system that they are categorised as 'unknown' on their character sheet which should show their classes as well as race, Hamsuke is an example of a foreign being. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PdZ6xH2S3TM/VeMW6kE1ECI/AAAAAAAADUY/N05FpG6OAxc/s640/08-+Hamsuke.png

PS. Also I hope you didn't mean my previous statement of Ainz being able to outdo Aqua in her own field as some head-cannon, it's not all her abilities. Because it's not, It's common knowledge he can resurrect without a body and volume 13 he planned to resurrect people he's never met. While Aqua cannot. Aqua can cast a flood class water spell but Ainz has a creation spell to change terrains, freezing, desert, water, fire, it's up to him and in Volume 4 he froze the Great Lake and his subordinates couldn't immediately confirm the extent he froze the lake that has width of approximately twenty kilometres and has the shape of an inverted calabash or ladle.

 

[Wokistan]

Casting something to deflect still counts as reaction speed, but if you wish to alter statistics it's frowned upon to do so within threads, I guess. Head on over to the Content Revision Board and make a thread, if you wish to be heard.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Can you close this? Its been agreed by most speed equal Ainz oneshots and speed uneqaul aqua blitz. Sorry If thats not enough to consider this a stomp or mismatch I assume those two factors would qaulify this as either a stomp or mismatch. Aplogies for the inconvience....

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

What Wok said, all you point out doesn't really matter at all unless you do an actual content revision and get it approved. The character's stats are what they are, and unless you provide the proof and get them changed, your opinion doesn't amount to much.

 

[KaizukaZekrom]

So is it incon?

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Im pretty sure this would fall into to stomp, speed equal aqua can't win even assuming her turn undead is a one hit kill as ainz will instantly ressurect and death hax her. Speed uneqaul aqua speed blitzes hard...

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Aqua losing because of rez ring is not a stomp though. She can totally kill Ainz so she's not helpless. The match is simply more decisive to one side.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Fair enough, I was just pointing out even giving aqua the absoulute best chance (I.E. assuming she can one shot ainz) She's still incredibly unlikely to win. Well if this mess is still going to be counted Ill vote Ainz fra

 

[FDrybob]

Ainz fra

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Ainz can also time stop and Grasp Heart, so Ainz for that in addition to the above.