Adding a Dragon Ball Super explanation page to the wiki

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

What is the world talked about in the first one? 'cause of the "above heaven" stuff is it something that is not the entire afterlife? In the first place, if it is "above" heaven isn't it still kinda in the same space since it can have such an "above" relationship?

That it can generally be only entered by dead people is not a good argument, especially if those with permission are apparently allowed to travel between the realms.

That source also brings up the four galaxy thing, which I thought wasn't official anymore?

I think that's about the universe being divided into 4 quadrants. The realm should be the Otherworld

Anyway IIRC this realm is usually showed to be accessible only via teleportation techniques but I could be wrong on this one.

It's probably better to ask this to Zamasu Chan

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Oh… I am afraid we can not use that English Translation as it was translated differently from the one you using which is Machine Translation.

Don’t think we can use it too as well.

Herms's translation also said something about it being "dimensionally transcendental" IIRC

 

[DontTalkDT]

isnt it some short of transcendental realm that transcend the conventional dimensions.?

Even I know dragonball enough to know that Heaven doesn't transcend dimensions in that sense. Like, heaven is neither power wise superior nor spatiotemporally weird when compared to the normal universe.


Is there any other statement of that nature btw. or is that the only thing to ever bring it up?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Herms's translation also said something about it being "dimensionally transcendental" IIRC

Well, the one we go from Twitter was using the term “extra dimensional” rather than dimensional transcendental or something.

Edit: Also link?

 

[Bernkastelll]

Even I know dragonball enough to know that Heaven doesn't transcend dimensions in that sense.

the way that it was worded, it seems that the realm is at least separated, I mean, it is beyond the universe and cannot be perceived in the others realms

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Well, the one we go from Twitter was using the term “extra dimensional” rather than dimensional transcendental or something.

Edit: Also link?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

So translation of the same thing.

We got techincally two different things then.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

So translation of the same thing.

We got techincally two different things then.

Yeah. We'll see how this turns out

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yeah. We'll see how this turns out

Actually I am pretty sure more than one afterlifes is said to being in other universes right? If so, I not sure if we can use these translations as one can view the afterlife as being 4D > 3D or something like that.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Actually I am pretty sure more than one afterlifes is said to being in other universes right? If so, I not sure if we can use these translations as one can view the afterlife as being 4D > 3D or something like that.

I just use it to prove that they are at least spatially separated

 

[Vizer04]

but i will stop talking about this lmao

please dont

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Extra dimensional could just mean another dimension, or something outside the universe. The afterlife is described as “above” or “higher” than the universe.

Think of it as extra terrestrial, where it simply means outside of earth, but on a universal (or multiversal) scale.

 

[BOEGVELD]

Don't know how much this means, but one of the universe maps describe the Other Wold as a cosmos.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I'm gonna wait for input of some more knowledgeable staff on the issue. Our current speed calc for the universe destroying speed assumes that there is a physical boundary between the living world and afterlife, which would also mean they are not spatially separated.

I don't know if extra-dimensional is the only viable translation for the japanese text and, in general, it appears like an isolated statement from a secondary source that goes against the cosmology of the universe shown in image form. While that picture might not be to scale I would still find it weird for it to be wrong on a qualitative level, such as the universe not being enclosed by a sphere.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I'm gonna wait for input of some more knowledgeable staff on the issue. Our current speed calc for the universe destroying speed assumes that there is a physical boundary between the living world and afterlife, which would also mean they are not spatially separated.

I don't know if extra-dimensional is the only viable translation for the japanese text and, in general, it appears like an isolated statement from a secondary source that goes against the cosmology of the universe shown in image form. While that picture might not be to scale I would still find it weird for it to be wrong on a qualitative level, such as the universe not being enclosed by a sphere.

The picture of the universe is from the same source of the extradimendional statement, and it is only being backuped only in the DBS manga and not Anime

 

[Lormac_CC]

When I first saw the scan it was dimensional transcendental, this is the first time I am seeing extra Dimensional

 

[DontTalkDT]

The picture of the universe is from the same source of the extradimendional statement, and it is only being backuped only in the DBS manga and not Anime

Is the manga less canon than the guidebook, though?

The map was also drawn by Akira Toriyama personally, no?

 

[Bernkastelll]

Is the manga less canon than the guidebook, though?

The universe draw was from the guides, and only appeared half of it in the DBS manga, which is a single one continuity, which doesnt affect DBS anime after all, not if we take the whole thing of "secondary canon not backuped" like the claim of the heaven being an extradimension

 

[Vietthai96]

The map was also drawn by Akira Toriyama personally, no?

The map was indeed completed by Akira Toriyama

 

[ProudLearner]

They are spatially divided but they share the same time:

1. If they were not spatially divided then any mortal can go via Spaceship.

2. You need a teleporting technique to get there.

3. Whis explains the Universes. We see that the realm of the gods are not illustrated. Which means the are spatially separated.

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

Wait why do they share the same time?
Edit: You would think if something is spatially separated its also temporally separated since time is just the progression of existence

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Wait why do they share the same time?
Edit: You would think if something is spatially separated its also temporally separated since time is just the progression of existence

Based take

(I agree with this btw)

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I forgot to put the scans in my post smh. I edited them in.

 

[Vizer04]

unrelated, but i want Low 1-C Dragon Ball to be a thing so bad

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

unrelated, but i want Low 1-C Dragon Ball to be a thing so bad

Nope. 2-C at most.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Is the manga less canon than the guidebook, though?

Nah manga is always >>. But it has a better statement. "That Super Saiyan level 3 can only be done in the Afterlife where time doesn’t really mean much."
INB4 "The afterlife has the same time flow of the universe", not true. Yes they move at the same rate but are 2 different flows, like the alternate timelines. It's clear that each dimension has different temporal properties from each other because time from each dimension have different effects on SSJ3 Goku. That, plus the statements Nullflower provided, and you have statements of them having different time and space. It's as clear as day.
Keep in mind, the raws says the universe is where time exists, which can easily be interpreted as no time in the afterlife, which isn’t true. Viz corrects the wording by saying "time doesn’t mean much" instead, which is more consistent with what's been shown.

The map was also drawn by Akira Toriyama personally, no?

Yes.

 

[AKM sama]

Yes they move at the same rate but are 2 different flows, like the alternate timelines. It's clear that each dimension has different temporal properties from each other because time from each dimension have different effects on SSJ3 Goku.

It's really not clear at all. You mean to say that the living world's past, present and future are not interlinked with the past, present and future of kaioshin realms or afterlife? Everything in Dragon Ball lore goes against that notion.

Keep in mind, the raws says the universe is where time exists, which can easily be interpreted as no time in the afterlife, which isn’t true.

Which means we just discredit this statement as an inconsistency, and not try to post-mortem examine it as something that has any value. This statement has been discussed to hell and back, nothing is ever going to change with this abomination of a statement that Toriyama threw there for lazy reasons and didn't elaborate upon it.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

It's really not clear at all. You mean to say that the living world's past, present and future are not interlinked with the past, present and future of kaioshin realms or afterlife? Everything in Dragon Ball lore goes against that notion.

You’ve already misinterpreted what I said. Obviously their past present and future move in sync because they’re all in the same timeline. What this shows is that time in the afterlife does not have the same properties as time in the living world. They move the same but have different effects.

Which means we just discredit this statement as an inconsistency, and not try to post-mortem examine it as something that has any value.

You should know the Japanese to English translations aren’t always 1 to 1 or clear as day. Direct Japanese to English can create grammatical errors within a sentence. This same thing happened in the daizenshuu when people thought the universe had 4 galaxies or the solar system was a galactic nebula. What Viz does is not only translate from Japanese to English but in a way it makes sense in the English language so those kinds of mistakes, like the ones I posted, wouldn’t be made so often in the manga.

This statement has been discussed to hell and back, nothing is ever going to change with this abomination of a statement that Toriyama threw there for lazy reasons and didn't elaborate upon it.

This statement has been discussed “to hell and back” all for the wrong reasons. People either misinterpreted by saying time moves differently in the afterlife or Goku’s just making things up. Both of these claims go against what’s shown. We got three options here:

• Go with the raws and claim time doesn’t exist in the afterlife, contradicting past events shown.
• Go with Viz and claim time simply doesn’t mean much in the afterlife, which doesn’t contradict anything and is supported by what’s shown.
• Go with 0 statements and use headcanon to say which is wrong.

Which one makes more sense to you?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

You’ve already misinterpreted what I said. Obviously their past present and future move in sync because they’re all in the same timeline. What this shows is that time in the afterlife does not have the same properties as time in the living world. They move the same but have different effects.

You should know the Japanese to English translations aren’t always 1 to 1 or clear as day. Direct Japanese to English can create grammatical errors within a sentence. This same thing happened in the daizenshuu when people thought the universe had 4 galaxies or the solar system was a galactic nebula. What Viz does is not only translate from Japanese to English but in a way it makes sense in the English language so those kinds of mistakes, like the ones I posted, wouldn’t be made so often in the manga.

This statement has been discussed “to hell and back” all for the wrong reasons. People either misinterpreted by saying time moves differently in the afterlife or Goku’s just making things up. Both of these claims go against what’s shown. We got three options here:

• Go with the raws and claim time doesn’t exist in the afterlife, contradicting past events shown.
• Go with Viz and claim time simply doesn’t mean much in the afterlife, which doesn’t contradict anything and is supported by what’s shown.
• Go with 0 statements and use headcanon to say which is wrong.

Which one makes more sense to you?

What does "time not meaning much" mean?

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

What does "time not meaning much" mean?

He explained it in the post

 

[Tarang123]

Wait, why will you using a English machine translation though? The translation Null got is different from the one you using.

Translation is actually accurate

 

[Tarang123]

Personally, I’d interpret the different realms as different space-times, but whatever.

 

[AKM sama]

You’ve already misinterpreted what I said.

And you've already misinterpreted what I said. I did not say they do or do not move in sync. I meant that they share the past, present and future together. The past of the entire universe is one. It's not like living world has a different past and afterlife has a different past and affecting one would not affect the other. They have the same past, present and future and are bound by the same time.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It's not like living world has a different past and afterlife has a different past and affecting one would not affect the other.

Since when affecting the Living Realm also affected the Afterlife??? Can you show an example from canon for that?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

And you've already misinterpreted what I said. I did not say they do or do not move in sync. I meant that they share the past, present and future together. The past of the entire universe is one.

They’re in the same timeline as well as the other universes yet those universes are still 2-C all together.

It's not like living world has a different past and afterlife has a different past and affecting one would not affect the other. They have the same past, present and future and are bound by the same time.

When has one affected the other?

 

[KLOL506]

I mean, other than the time Goku threatened to destroy both of them physically?

 

[AKM sama]

They’re in the same timeline as well as the other universes yet those universes are still 2-C all together.

Good thing they have the benefit of the doubt because they are full blown universes, and not just part of the same universe that requires far more evidence to be proven as separate timespaces than only a throwaway nonsense statement like "time does not exist".

 

[AKM sama]

• Go with the raws and claim time doesn’t exist in the afterlife, contradicting past events shown.
• Go with Viz and claim time simply doesn’t mean much in the afterlife, which doesn’t contradict anything and is supported by what’s shown.
• Go with 0 statements and use headcanon to say which is wrong.

Here's what can be done in each scenario:
1. Ignore/discard the statement because it is contradictory.
2. Ignore/discard the statement because "time doesn't mean much" itself doesn't mean much, as in, the statement does not elaborate what exactly is meant by time "meaning" anything. I'd argue time means a whole lot when Goku's training was time bound and it has a direct correlation with normal time. I'd also say Goku only meant that characters are not bothered by the amount of time they normally spend in afterlife, as in, while exerting more power rids Goku of the fixed amount of time his dead body can be in the living world, it wouldn't matter if he exerts more power in the afterlife because he is not bound by a fixed time limit on his dead body there.
3. The main reason why DB universe is not 2-C is exactly because we don't go with this alternative.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Good thing they have the benefit of the doubt because they are full blown universes, and not just part of the same universe that requires far more evidence to be proven as separate timespaces than only a throwaway nonsense statement like "time does not exist".

Not only is it stated that the living world is the universe but the afterlife is implied to have different temporal properties. That’s already better statements compared to the numbered universes.

Ignore/discard the statement because "time doesn't mean much" itself doesn't mean much, as in, the statement does not elaborate what exactly is meant by time "meaning" anything. I'd argue time means a whole lot when Goku's training was time bound and it has a direct correlation with normal time.

In other words, headcanon. You wanna talk about training? King Kai says 158 days of training with him would be like 1000 years on earth. Notice how he specifically says “on earth”, implying the location is what’s important here.

I'd also say Goku only meant that characters are not bothered by the amount of time they normally spend in afterlife, as in, while exerting more power rids Goku of the fixed amount of time his dead body can be in the living world, it wouldn't matter if he exerts more power in the afterlife because he is not bound by a fixed time limit on his dead body there.

No he specifically said that being on earth uses up too much energy. With him saying it’s due to different kinds of time, then it’s not the same.
If it was actually the timer that was the problem, then Goku would’ve said nothing about having less energy in the universe but instead say ssj3 uses up his time limit.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Translation is actually accurate

How so? Japanese is definitely one of the more complicated ones and also we talking about a single statement compared to a bunch of other statements regarding the afterlife.