• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Adding a Dragon Ball Super explanation page to the wiki

Status
Not open for further replies.

KingPin0422

Derp Idol
Joke Battles
Retired
1,280
1,120
So, during my time on the wiki, I've noticed a lot of confusion over why Dragon Ball Super is tiered the way it is - namely, concerning the 12 universes and their status as separate space-time continua. Many people, myself included, have historically made threads questioning the legitimacy of this claim, pointing out the fact that each timeline has its own copy of all 12 universes, among other things. Invariably, such threads are flooded with people either posting sarcastic memes or pushing back with some variant of "this has been discussed to death" until a staff member comes in to close it for being repetitive, with no explanations being given for why it's such a forbidden topic. We're just expected to instantly know the reasoning for the belief that the 12 universes are spatio-temporally separate - case in point, allow me to refer to what the Discussion Rules for Dragon Ball has to say about it:

Do not attempt to change the current Dragon Ball cosmology and power ratings without new evidence from an ongoing manga or anime series. We have heard all of the arguments many times before, and are so exhausted of constantly dealing with those topics that bringing them up recurrently leads to nowhere, with the discussion threads being oftentimes closed immediately.

Yep. It says nothing about the cosmology. It just says "hey, you're not allowed to change how we treat the cosmology without new evidence because we've heard every argument before and we're tired of it." No blog or other repository of information is provided, we're apparently just supposed to take their word for it.

We consider the universes in Dragon Ball alternate time-spaces relative to each other, hence why Zen'ō is rated as 2-C, despite the events in the Goku Black Saga showing parallel timelines encompassing the whole of the multiverse.

The reason for this is that Universe 7 by itself has already been shown to contain parallel space-time continuums within its globe, such as the Room of Spirit and Time, which is still affected by time travel; which proves that the new timelines can encompass other space-times as well, and thus the events in the Future Trunks Saga don't prove anything in the way of the universes being physically connected.

This isn't particularly helpful, either. It makes a claim (universes are alternate space-times) and justifies it with "Universe 7 already contains space-time continua within its globe and those are affected by time travel," but it doesn't explain what makes the Room of Spirit and Time an independent space-time continuum or how "Universe 6 and Universe 7 belong to different space-time continua" follows from the RoSaT being a space-time continuum. Worst of all, it provides no scans for any of this. Once again, they have a proposition, and they refuse to back it up with evidence.

So what can we do? It's simple, really: we need to make an official explanation blog/page that compiles as much evidence as possible for the 12 universes being alternate space-time continua, we can add it to the "Information Pages" section on the header (as it is a very popular verse and people should be able to easily access a page that's vital to understanding why we rate it the way we do), and then we can refer anyone who has questions or complaints about how we tier Dragon Ball Super to it. This way, we'll have an easy-to-use reference for Dragon Ball's cosmology and ratings that would, ideally, greatly reduce the number of threads trying to refute it, while also allowing room for doubt where it may exist.

It's honestly surprising that no one has bothered to address this issue before, especially with recent threads highlighting the problem to me and a handful of others. Surely, as with any other website, we should be providing citations for our claims, no?
 
So, during my time on the wiki, I've noticed a lot of confusion over why Dragon Ball Super is tiered the way it is - namely, concerning the 12 universes and their status as separate space-time continua. Many people, myself included, have historically made threads questioning the legitimacy of this claim, pointing out the fact that each timeline has its own copy of all 12 universes, among other things. Invariably, such threads are flooded with people either posting sarcastic memes or pushing back with some variant of "this has been discussed to death" until a staff member comes in to close it for being repetitive, with no explanations being given for why it's such a forbidden topic. We're just expected to instantly know the reasoning for the belief that the 12 universes are spatio-temporally separate - case in point, allow me to refer to what the Discussion Rules for Dragon Ball has to say about it:
Yep. It says nothing about the cosmology. It just says "hey, you're not allowed to change how we treat the cosmology without new evidence because we've heard every argument before and we're tired of it." No blog or other repository of information is provided, we're apparently just supposed to take their word for it.
I 9000% agree with this. Time and time again I e wanted to have a discussions not a CRT just to clear things up. I can’t even do that without people tearing at each other like rabid dogs (on each opposing side btw).

It always goes like this: OP makes thread. Says be peaceful. People agree/disagree. People fight. Staff closes thread. And if some new guy, who’s ignorant to the past discussions, makes a thread questioning it, he’ll get the same “we’ve discussed this before” treatment.
This isn't particularly helpful, either. It makes a claim (universes are alternate space-times) and justifies it with "Universe 7 already contains space-time continua within its globe and those are affected by time travel," but it doesn't explain what makes the Room of Spirit and Time an independent space-time continuum or how "Universe 6 and Universe 7 belong to different space-time continua" follows from the RoSaT being a space-time continuum. Worst of all, it provides no scans for any of this. Once again, they have a proposition, and they refuse to back it up with evidence.
I agree. That quote makes it sounds like the ROSAT is low 2-C and U7 2-C when we don’t treat it that way. Kep made the note so blame him.
So what can we do? It's simple, really: we need to make an official explanation blog/page that compiles as much evidence as possible for the 12 universes being alternate space-time continua, we can add it to the "Information Pages" section on the header (as it is a very popular verse and people should be able to easily access a page that's vital to understanding why we rate it the way we do), and then we can refer anyone who has questions or complaints about how we tier Dragon Ball Super to it. This way, we'll have an easy-to-use reference for Dragon Ball's cosmology and ratings that would, ideally, greatly reduce the number of threads trying to refute it, while also allowing room for doubt where it may exist.
I did that a while ago, back when low 1-C was in the air. However, a few days ago I edited the blog, making it a little less cluttered and more simplified. If anyone’s going to read, then I suggest paying attention to the afterlife portion.
It’s still a work in progress somewhat.
It's honestly surprising that no one has bothered to address this issue before, especially with recent threads highlighting the problem to me and a handful of others. Surely, as with any other website, we should be providing citations for our claims, no?
I’ve addressed at least some things in the OP but it seems not a lot of people listened to me because of my viewpoints.
 
I agree that making an explanation blog or something should honestly be made to clear things up as I get extremely tired of people having to go back and forth with the arguments. The tiers should absolutely remain the same, but there should be something that can properly educate newcomers in greater detail.
 
Yeah I completely agree with this

Dragon Ball in general needs so much more explainations, which is a shame given how popular it is on the wiki
 
Indeed
naybe we should gather all the scans, discuss the cosmology, then put it on the vers's page as a note or a notable section?
 
I feel like if people have contentions with where you have the cosmology, regardless if they are using old evidence or new evidence, should still be able to argue against it, because there can still possibly be holes within the logic you are using. For example, your reasoning for the universe being finite I find to be refutable, but just because I'm addressing something old and not presenting new evidence it means i can't get it possibly changed?
 
I feel like if people have contentions with where you have the cosmology, regardless if they are using old evidence or new evidence, should still be able to argue against it, because there can still possibly be holes within the logic you are using. For example, your reasoning for the universe being finite I find to be refutable, but just because I'm addressing something old and not presenting new evidence it means i can't get it possibly changed?
Yes, of course there's contention. That's why there needs to be a discussion. Not a straight CRT.
 
I very much agree that a blog is needed for the verse. Something I mentioned on very few occasions in the past.
 
Is there someone in charge of Goku's page who i can discuss with? Or like something anyone can do if they geniunely want to like change his tier or contest his scaling?
 
Bump.

Can anyone contact the DB expert staff members so that we can reach a conclusion on how to work up the cosmology page?
 
Bump.

Can anyone contact the DB expert staff members so that we can reach a conclusion on how to work up the cosmology page?
Hopefully someone does, I want to debate/discuss the cosmology, from what i've seen so far, the reasoning as to why people think the cosmology works the way it does is really weird
 
Honestly the different realms in Universe 7 have more proof for being different space times than the 12 universes. I do believe the other 12 universes are different space times. However, if the notion of the different realms being 3a in U7 is being predicated. Then why should the the 12 universes be their own time space?
 
It's unbelievably stupid in my opinion to how Dragonball is being treated. There's so much evidence to support so much like the universe being infinite, each one of its layers being seperate space-time continuums, the otherworld being on a higher plane of existence than the rest of the universe etc.

Not just that though, there's so much evidence to back up that each timeline contains the 12 universes and also there's evidence (probably the most arguable from the things I mentioned) to prove that there's an infinite amount of timelines, or at least a nigh-infinite amount.

I have been studying and reading Dragonball for quite a while now so I would love to contribute on the cosmology blog by debating on it or by posting scans, information or arguments.

Stop treating Dragonball like this.
 
Oh please. You of all people should know what would happen if he did that.
ik
835655222150823978.png
 
It's unbelievably stupid in my opinion to how Dragonball is being treated. There's so much evidence to support so much like the universe being infinite, each one of its layers being seperate space-time continuums, the otherworld being on a higher plane of existence than the rest of the universe etc.

Not just that though, there's so much evidence to back up that each timeline contains the 12 universes and also there's evidence (probably the most arguable from the things I mentioned) to prove that there's an infinite amount of timelines, or at least a nigh-infinite amount.

I have been studying and reading Dragonball for quite a while now so I would love to contribute on the cosmology blog by debating on it or by posting scans, information or arguments.

Stop treating Dragonball like this.
I couldn't agree more. You make pages trying to discuss dragon ball's cosmology, it gets closed. You try to get a hold dragon ball supporters/people in charge of the pages concerning dragon ball, you either get no response or people tell you their not interested in discussing it, and honestly its frustrating. And they even refuse to do the bare minimum and explain/give justification as to why they are adamant on it not changing? Like what?

Its become apparent to me that this wiki has somehow developed some sort of weird bias against dragon ball and I honestly don't know why, and I don't even think this site knows why either.

This needs to change.
 
True, I remember looking at GodlyCharmander's MFTL+ DBZ CRT, and it took literally forever just to get him to convince some staff despite having his proof and pretty blatant proof as to why Freeza 100%, SSJ Goku and those who scale to them should have it. He was clearly VERY frustrated and even asked for it to be closed because of how obvious staff (that disagreed) weren't willing to listen to his arguments and just said no despite QUITE LITERALLY being fed information by him. It took 6 pages for the staff (or whoever disagreed) to finally concede and add it to their profiles. Not sure if it's the same situation here, but the DBZ bias CLEARLY exists.
 
I elorated, the Wiki goes with the lowest possible assumption and destroy the entire Universe can be interpreted as destroy the entire Space of the Universe, what exactly is their to clarify here.
That can only happen if we don't count a universe is a space-Time construct
A macrocosm= Low 2-C = space time = 4-D
Destroying the inside of a macrocosm is 3-A. Destroying the structure itself is low 2-C
 
I'm pretty sure there is unanimous agreement that a Dragon Ball Cosmology page must be made, including agreements from DDM, Planck, and the like, and Zamasu-Chan has already made a blog page.

If y'all would like to add any suggestions or corrections, let him know on this thread. We need all hands on deck with this sort of thing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top