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Actual YGO card game discussion thread: Firewall did nothing wrong
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Well...that's 90% of the meta. Wait, just Synchro and XYZ (which are the ones I actually used...)? Why weren't Pendulum's or Fusions affected? And furthermore, does that justify my reason to hate Links or should I just adapt?
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yea you just link spam now so much better espceially when you extra link your opponent and just lock them out of the game turn one
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That sucks...
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- #45
Actually, no.
1) Sky strikers dont spam links (top deck), they outresource the enemy.
2) Thunder dragons dont spam links (second strongest deck), they sit on double colosus and titan, locking the opp out of their searches and disrupting.
3) Altergeist dont spam links (fourth deck? Maybe fifth?): they disrupt with their traps enough to not let you play.
Dark Warrior spam / Goukis
4) ABCs should be a viable option now: they dont need to extra link when they can reliably double Buster Dragon T1 coupled with protection. Also gumblar.
5) BA does not extra link.
6) Toads/Paleos dont extra link.
7) Trickstars dont extra link.
Currently extra linking is nearly dead without Firewall. The best and easier play for decks who spam a lot of SS is Gumblar for 4 or the Rhongo pseudo FTK in case of Goukis / Dark Warriors.
1) Sky strikers dont spam links (top deck), they outresource the enemy.
2) Thunder dragons dont spam links (second strongest deck), they sit on double colosus and titan, locking the opp out of their searches and disrupting.
3) Altergeist dont spam links (fourth deck? Maybe fifth?): they disrupt with their traps enough to not let you play.
Dark Warrior spam / Goukis
4) ABCs should be a viable option now: they dont need to extra link when they can reliably double Buster Dragon T1 coupled with protection. Also gumblar.
5) BA does not extra link.
6) Toads/Paleos dont extra link.
7) Trickstars dont extra link.
Currently extra linking is nearly dead without Firewall. The best and easier play for decks who spam a lot of SS is Gumblar for 4 or the Rhongo pseudo FTK in case of Goukis / Dark Warriors.
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- #46
Pendulums were top meta until they were "castrated" with the limit of the Metalfoes Link, ban of Astrograph and Starving Venom. They were ridiculously fast compared to the rest. The hits were unnecessarily brutal if you ask me.The real cal howard said:
Fusion summoning is now limited to Thunder dragons and Invoked, mostly (and technically Cyber dragons). Fusions require too many resources to spam links, and if you cant spam links you can spam fusions.
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PaChi2 said:
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- #48
Friendly reminder that ABC's contact fusion requirements are a joke. It hardly counts as a "Fusion summoning" when you can cheat it by having the materials in the GY and no fusion spell or effect requirement.Endless Astrograph Sorcerer said:PaChi2 said:
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Yeah. It's kinda like ritual (spirit) beasts. Or gladiator beasts. It's cheating out a fusion monster as it doesn't have the typical three card requirement.
I also agree with PaChi. Pendulums as a mechanic were brutally destroyed by master rule 4. Heavymetalfoes electrum helped balance that out and allowed pendulum decks to still be relevant. Without it, they're just as card intensive as any typical fusion or ritual monster, with the added bonus of MST and friends being able to disrupt their plays. Joy.
I also agree with PaChi. Pendulums as a mechanic were brutally destroyed by master rule 4. Heavymetalfoes electrum helped balance that out and allowed pendulum decks to still be relevant. Without it, they're just as card intensive as any typical fusion or ritual monster, with the added bonus of MST and friends being able to disrupt their plays. Joy.
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@Pach that's just because the fusion mechanic is too inherently neg and fusion decks with poly need to be like fluffals where everything lets you plus like crazy to counterbalance. It's a mechanic that was powercrept years and years and years before ABC was even released.
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Yeah. That's why Nekroz were so good. Resource management paired with excellent effects that both impacted your opponent, and gave an ungodly amount of consistency. I kinda miss them being part of the meta.
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Kirin shouldn't be banned
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- #54
Armiryle the Starguide Dragon
DARK Dragon Link Effect Monster
1400 ATK / Link-2 (Bottom-left, Bottom-right)
2 Effect Monsters
-You can only use this card name's effect once per turn.
-Cannot be used as Link Material.
(1) You can target 1 face-up monster this card points to; Special Summon 1 monster with the same original Level as the targeted monster's from your hand to your zone this card points to in Defense Position, but its effects are negated.
LOL
DARK Dragon Link Effect Monster
1400 ATK / Link-2 (Bottom-left, Bottom-right)
2 Effect Monsters
-You can only use this card name's effect once per turn.
-Cannot be used as Link Material.
(1) You can target 1 face-up monster this card points to; Special Summon 1 monster with the same original Level as the targeted monster's from your hand to your zone this card points to in Defense Position, but its effects are negated.
LOL
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That's interesting.
Cannot be used as link material
THANK YOU.
Cannot be used as link material
THANK YOU.
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Link climbing in general is degenerate. At least with synchro climbing, you had to have a tuner monster. And the levels had to add up.
The requirements for links are too generic.
The requirements for links are too generic.
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- #58
Using this as a reference:
The changes I propose:
Bans: Cannon soldier, Amazoness Archer, the Gem-Knight burner, Summon Sorceress, needlefiber, grinder golem, soul charge, magical explosion, knightmare gryphon, the lyrical bird that banned Neptune, gumblar, borrelsword, borreload, number 86, S0, 42.
Limits: Astrograph, Gofu, the rulers, Djinn releaser, Double Iris, Master Peace, Plushfire, Monkeyboard, Joker, Substitoad, Lithosagym, Norden, AFD, Denglong, Daigusto Emeral, Lavalval Chain, M-X-S invoker, Ptolomaeus, Zenmaity, Drident, Broadbull, Spellbook Judgement, Chicken Game, Starving venom dragon, dandylyon, all knightmares, Isolde.
Semi-Limit: beatrice, Dante, tribe-infecting virus, deep sea diva, genex birdman, graff, cir, spyrals, terrortop, damage juggler, electrumite, raigeki, hornet drones, draco face-off, super poly, super rejuvenation, infernity barrier, one for one, RotA, the grass looks greener.
Unlimits: Stratos, DAD, Shurit, Scout, Ehther, Infernity Archfiend, Inzektors, Construct, Neptune, REDMD, Tour Guide, nekroz of Brionac, unicore, Ulti-Cannahawk, AHL, dark hole, draco face-off, infernity laucher, pantheism of the monarchs, emergency teleport, the monarchs stormforth, true king's return, gateway of the six, rekindling, TG. Hyper librarian, Limiter Removal, Terraforming, gishkis, rank up argent chaos force, vanilla exodia pieces.
Thoughts? im pretty much reviving all relevant decks, killing FTKs and gumblar loops.
The changes I propose:
Bans: Cannon soldier, Amazoness Archer, the Gem-Knight burner, Summon Sorceress, needlefiber, grinder golem, soul charge, magical explosion, knightmare gryphon, the lyrical bird that banned Neptune, gumblar, borrelsword, borreload, number 86, S0, 42.
Limits: Astrograph, Gofu, the rulers, Djinn releaser, Double Iris, Master Peace, Plushfire, Monkeyboard, Joker, Substitoad, Lithosagym, Norden, AFD, Denglong, Daigusto Emeral, Lavalval Chain, M-X-S invoker, Ptolomaeus, Zenmaity, Drident, Broadbull, Spellbook Judgement, Chicken Game, Starving venom dragon, dandylyon, all knightmares, Isolde.
Semi-Limit: beatrice, Dante, tribe-infecting virus, deep sea diva, genex birdman, graff, cir, spyrals, terrortop, damage juggler, electrumite, raigeki, hornet drones, draco face-off, super poly, super rejuvenation, infernity barrier, one for one, RotA, the grass looks greener.
Unlimits: Stratos, DAD, Shurit, Scout, Ehther, Infernity Archfiend, Inzektors, Construct, Neptune, REDMD, Tour Guide, nekroz of Brionac, unicore, Ulti-Cannahawk, AHL, dark hole, draco face-off, infernity laucher, pantheism of the monarchs, emergency teleport, the monarchs stormforth, true king's return, gateway of the six, rekindling, TG. Hyper librarian, Limiter Removal, Terraforming, gishkis, rank up argent chaos force, vanilla exodia pieces.
Thoughts? im pretty much reviving all relevant decks, killing FTKs and gumblar loops.
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I see my baby Ulti-Cannahawk on there, which is the main thing I'm concerned with.
The bans seem fine, though I think that borreload and borrelsword could be at one. Along with maybe soul charge. MAYBE.
For limits I've honestly wanted the rulers at one for the longest time. I want my Tempest back. All those guys at one seems interesting. I keep wanting to ban one but am unsure. The amount of decks that would be viable are crazy enough that it might be fair.
For the Semi-Limits, I'm mostly uncertain on terrortop here since M-X-Invoker is at one on your list. The generic play is less consistent, but I would rather it just not be a thing in general.
As for the unlimited, it's the same as with the limited. I want to hit something, but with all the craziness out there, it doesn't seem like it'll go uncontested. And some of the decks have been powercrept out. Like Inzektors. I'm still unsure on Gishki handloops. Hieratics are still around, all at three. And there's a card that searches them.
But it seems pretty solid in my opinion. There would be so much craziness running around that I'm not quite sure what would happen. Half of the decks have been powercrept out and shouldn't still be on the list regardless. Others have had non archtype cards hit so that that don't function as well. And others are going to hit like a hurricane, potentially. Though, nicely enough, I think links hinders these decks enough to make them "fair." Though I kinda agree with Phoenix that link climbing did break links fundamentally.
The bans seem fine, though I think that borreload and borrelsword could be at one. Along with maybe soul charge. MAYBE.
For limits I've honestly wanted the rulers at one for the longest time. I want my Tempest back. All those guys at one seems interesting. I keep wanting to ban one but am unsure. The amount of decks that would be viable are crazy enough that it might be fair.
For the Semi-Limits, I'm mostly uncertain on terrortop here since M-X-Invoker is at one on your list. The generic play is less consistent, but I would rather it just not be a thing in general.
As for the unlimited, it's the same as with the limited. I want to hit something, but with all the craziness out there, it doesn't seem like it'll go uncontested. And some of the decks have been powercrept out. Like Inzektors. I'm still unsure on Gishki handloops. Hieratics are still around, all at three. And there's a card that searches them.
But it seems pretty solid in my opinion. There would be so much craziness running around that I'm not quite sure what would happen. Half of the decks have been powercrept out and shouldn't still be on the list regardless. Others have had non archtype cards hit so that that don't function as well. And others are going to hit like a hurricane, potentially. Though, nicely enough, I think links hinders these decks enough to make them "fair." Though I kinda agree with Phoenix that link climbing did break links fundamentally.
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- #60
Borrelsword its a 0 or 3 card.
At one is still an OTK machine by itself and normally you dont play any more than one.
Borreload is a generic change of heart in a 3k body. It's too strong for a generic card. If it had any summoning limitation I'd agree with it staying.
Ulti-Cannahawk can go to 3 tbh.
Gishki's hand loops are a concern for me too, but given that it's their gimmick, oh well. I'd rather face that than Gumblar everywhere. Im fine with terrortop at 1 tbh. It's too strong. Btw, when I say "all knightmares" I dont mean Goblin, that guy can stay dead.
Okay, let me address some stuff I forgot:
Ban: Number 86 Rhongo, it's unhealthy and S0 Hope, yes, both should rot in hell because they are gimmicky stuff that totally stops the other from playing. And Number 42 Galaxy tomahawk too, it's too strong under links, especially if Drulers are back. Im editing that.
Limit: Isolde, this way she'll be much riskier to use.
Semi limit: the grass looks greener.
Unlimited: rank up argent chaos, vanilla exodia pieces (they are bricks, you wont play more than 1 anyway).
At one is still an OTK machine by itself and normally you dont play any more than one.
Borreload is a generic change of heart in a 3k body. It's too strong for a generic card. If it had any summoning limitation I'd agree with it staying.
Ulti-Cannahawk can go to 3 tbh.
Gishki's hand loops are a concern for me too, but given that it's their gimmick, oh well. I'd rather face that than Gumblar everywhere. Im fine with terrortop at 1 tbh. It's too strong. Btw, when I say "all knightmares" I dont mean Goblin, that guy can stay dead.
Okay, let me address some stuff I forgot:
Ban: Number 86 Rhongo, it's unhealthy and S0 Hope, yes, both should rot in hell because they are gimmicky stuff that totally stops the other from playing. And Number 42 Galaxy tomahawk too, it's too strong under links, especially if Drulers are back. Im editing that.
Limit: Isolde, this way she'll be much riskier to use.
Semi limit: the grass looks greener.
Unlimited: rank up argent chaos, vanilla exodia pieces (they are bricks, you wont play more than 1 anyway).
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Actually, yeah, I suppose that's right on the borrel dragon cards. Sword is an otk machine by itself. And it's true that people don't play more than one usually.
I agree, Goblin should stay dead.
I'm honestly fine with Rhongo. It's very much underplayed, and making it with five materials without interruption is highly unlikely.
S0 hope I'm relatively neutral about. Though I think a ban on Galaxy Tomahawk is appropriate if the dragon rulers were to come back.
Isolde limit seems fine to me. And Grass seems very awkward at two. I think at two is the only place it shouldn't be. 0 gets rid of the nonsense. 1 makes it very lucky and kind of a tech. 3 allows for decks to be centered around it and allows for luck sacky games. Two is just kinda, odd. Too inconsistent to be centered around, but tossing it two copies of the card just feels a bit strange. Like it would be better to just play something else.
Idk about the Exodia pieces. I'm also not sure how much I really care about them. I feel they're at ne for anime purposes or something, but I'm not sure. I haven't seen them at three, and I've never pondered the what if and tried to break them.
I agree, Goblin should stay dead.
I'm honestly fine with Rhongo. It's very much underplayed, and making it with five materials without interruption is highly unlikely.
S0 hope I'm relatively neutral about. Though I think a ban on Galaxy Tomahawk is appropriate if the dragon rulers were to come back.
Isolde limit seems fine to me. And Grass seems very awkward at two. I think at two is the only place it shouldn't be. 0 gets rid of the nonsense. 1 makes it very lucky and kind of a tech. 3 allows for decks to be centered around it and allows for luck sacky games. Two is just kinda, odd. Too inconsistent to be centered around, but tossing it two copies of the card just feels a bit strange. Like it would be better to just play something else.
Idk about the Exodia pieces. I'm also not sure how much I really care about them. I feel they're at ne for anime purposes or something, but I'm not sure. I haven't seen them at three, and I've never pondered the what if and tried to break them.
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I was actually hoping for a Gumblar hit along with Firewall.
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I don't think any of the Borrel monsters need to be on the f/l list
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- #65
"I'm honestly fine with Rhongo. It's very much underplayed, and making it with five materials without interruption is highly unlikely.
S0 hope I'm relatively neutral about. Though I think a ban on Galaxy Tomahawk is appropriate if the dragon rulers were to come back."
Rhongo turbo deck is a legit wincon for Dark warrior Danger spam that they can do even after being handtrapped once. I dont think "you cant play ygo" cards should be in the game.
S0 hope I'm relatively neutral about. Though I think a ban on Galaxy Tomahawk is appropriate if the dragon rulers were to come back."
Rhongo turbo deck is a legit wincon for Dark warrior Danger spam that they can do even after being handtrapped once. I dont think "you cant play ygo" cards should be in the game.
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Isn't Armageddon Knight at one now?
Rhongo's summon condition that doesn't let you play is still unconventional and not simple to do for most decks. Not to mention that one disruption is very likely to prevent it from being summoned in the first place.
It's summoning condition is harder than any of the borrel monsters requiring five level four monsters. Not the simplest thing to do. I'd have to look into this specific variant of Danger to really judge for myself, however.
Rhongo's summon condition that doesn't let you play is still unconventional and not simple to do for most decks. Not to mention that one disruption is very likely to prevent it from being summoned in the first place.
It's summoning condition is harder than any of the borrel monsters requiring five level four monsters. Not the simplest thing to do. I'd have to look into this specific variant of Danger to really judge for myself, however.
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Im not a very good player (in fact Im a noob) but I need to know something, what is the best deck for a turbo Exodia?
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I honestly have no idea.
Last time I saw an exodia deck focused around actually getting Exodia was the deck that was running cards like toon table of contents, the magical library, blue eyes, trade-in, toon blue eyes, cards of consonance, white stone of legend, etc.
Last time I saw an exodia deck focused around actually getting Exodia was the deck that was running cards like toon table of contents, the magical library, blue eyes, trade-in, toon blue eyes, cards of consonance, white stone of legend, etc.
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Thinking of building a kozmo deck with a zoo engine (3 barrage, 2 whiptail, 1 chakanine, 1 other zoo xyz). Barrage on a ship gets you, at the very least, four monsters on board for link plays and more if, for example, you already have a strawman in grave. Tis much smaller than something like a draco engine so you can still play artifacts
EDIT: nvm this doesn't work because you have no target in grave before detaching. Konami pls free broadbull and/or drident
EDIT: nvm this doesn't work because you have no target in grave before detaching. Konami pls free broadbull and/or drident
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long live burning abyss
everything at 3 with cherubini, that's just amazing
everything at 3 with cherubini, that's just amazing
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Konami is really a fan of banning cards that aren't actually the problem. Phoenix blade did allow for a lot of free interactions. But I mean, Isolde...
They really shouldn't have busted links.
They really shouldn't have busted links.
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The only issue I had with their design, is that, unlike every other mechanic, we're really forced to play them. Which wouldn't be so bad until you have link dedicated decks that can out speed other decks purely because their summoning method is needed to do anything but ritual summon.
If they had kept links relatively basic, I think it would've been fine. A neat way to slow down the game. Or, like PhoenixFlare said, make link climbing not a thing so link summoning is more resource intensive.
I also don't link how links legitimately killed some decks. And it made a lot of bad decks strictly worse.
If they had kept links relatively basic, I think it would've been fine. A neat way to slow down the game. Or, like PhoenixFlare said, make link climbing not a thing so link summoning is more resource intensive.
I also don't link how links legitimately killed some decks. And it made a lot of bad decks strictly worse.
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- #77
I would be fine with links with the following changes:
Only L1nks can be used to link climb (i.e I can only summon a L2nk with two L1nks and a L4nk with 4).
Non-link monsters cannot be used as materials for L2nks and above.
With those two restrictions I think Links would be much more fair since getting to your L4nk bosses would become much more resource intensive and non-link focused decks wouldnt be able to spam Link bosses like the borrels.
Only L1nks can be used to link climb (i.e I can only summon a L2nk with two L1nks and a L4nk with 4).
Non-link monsters cannot be used as materials for L2nks and above.
With those two restrictions I think Links would be much more fair since getting to your L4nk bosses would become much more resource intensive and non-link focused decks wouldnt be able to spam Link bosses like the borrels.
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They should make Shaddoll broken again
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I agree.
Also, they ruined some cards/decks based on swarming the opponent's field with tokens.
I know that those were Gimmicky in the first place, but with links they are almost unplayable.
Look at Dustons for example. Weirdly enough, Bishbalkin (Ultimaya 2.0) is still playable since it can also summon tokens in your own side of the field, which you can use to summon your own links.
Also, they ruined some cards/decks based on swarming the opponent's field with tokens.
I know that those were Gimmicky in the first place, but with links they are almost unplayable.
Look at Dustons for example. Weirdly enough, Bishbalkin (Ultimaya 2.0) is still playable since it can also summon tokens in your own side of the field, which you can use to summon your own links.
