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Aw, i missed you too. But its fine, i will change threads.
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Actual YGO card game discussion thread: Firewall did nothing wrong
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So card game lore only, huh. Sorry, but i am not that well-versed on card lore, just the anime and the movies, sadly.
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Nah its just the card game itself.
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Oh, i actually just play Blue Eyes casually.
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Element of surprise.
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No one expects the Blue-Eyes at a tournament. Its part of Kyle's mind games.
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Well, maybe some guitars and returns could make it hard for my opponent to do stuff. Maybe just a way to summon Crystal Wing asap.
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Report time. Had a lot of fun overall but I was pretty tilted at the end because..well, you'll see.
R1: 2-0 vs Striker (Trisbaena away 5 backrow and drop BLS, mahst be nais)
R2: 2-0 vs Cydra (I felt bad for this guy, he didn't even get to make CDI once, this match ended in like 6 min)
R3: 0-2 vs Paleozoic (no salt at all, I did the best I could with my hands but he read everything and didn't make any mistakes, guy was good)
R4: 2-1 vs Pendulum (even blind dweller won't stop muh OTKs)
R5: 2-0 BA Mirror (I don't lose these.)
R6: 2-1 Altergeist (now THIS was tense, it's no secret that this matchup is trash on my end but I got lucky and he didn't open all that well G1 so I was able to push through and get game on board, scooped G2 bc mare mare and taketomborg in hand sucks against marionetter, mini-kirin, faker, personal spoofing, protocol, and 3 set with 3 cards in hand. I opened Reboot, terrortop, tour guide, hydralander
R7: 2-1 BA Mirror (See: R5)
R8: 1-2 Rhongo Bongo (yikes, I don't really think I need to explain this one besides to say that I lost the die roll and didn't have anything in the side for the matchup besides hand traps that I didn't see)
R9: 1-2 Striker (this is where it gets painful...I took G1 and had game on board G2 and somehow someway I neglected to Borrelsword on Beatrice and swing a second time for 4400. Then he made Borreload, widow anchored Beatrice, and took sword in bp with Borreload. Then, i lost G3 in time bc Hayate is a pretty good card)
If I had caught myself a split second earlier, instead of saying "main phase 2", i'd have said "main ph..factor here is not royally screwing this up, borrelsword on beatrice change to defense"
So yeah, was in good position to top and then went x3 in the last round. I'll type up my decklist a bit later, I gotta pack my stuff and catch a train home but one thing I'd say is that I'll probably be siding Sauravis instead of Veiler next time. Didn't see any Prank-Kids which is probably good bc I haven't read half of those cards.
R1: 2-0 vs Striker (Trisbaena away 5 backrow and drop BLS, mahst be nais)
R2: 2-0 vs Cydra (I felt bad for this guy, he didn't even get to make CDI once, this match ended in like 6 min)
R3: 0-2 vs Paleozoic (no salt at all, I did the best I could with my hands but he read everything and didn't make any mistakes, guy was good)
R4: 2-1 vs Pendulum (even blind dweller won't stop muh OTKs)
R5: 2-0 BA Mirror (I don't lose these.)
R6: 2-1 Altergeist (now THIS was tense, it's no secret that this matchup is trash on my end but I got lucky and he didn't open all that well G1 so I was able to push through and get game on board, scooped G2 bc mare mare and taketomborg in hand sucks against marionetter, mini-kirin, faker, personal spoofing, protocol, and 3 set with 3 cards in hand. I opened Reboot, terrortop, tour guide, hydralander
R7: 2-1 BA Mirror (See: R5)
R8: 1-2 Rhongo Bongo (yikes, I don't really think I need to explain this one besides to say that I lost the die roll and didn't have anything in the side for the matchup besides hand traps that I didn't see)
R9: 1-2 Striker (this is where it gets painful...I took G1 and had game on board G2 and somehow someway I neglected to Borrelsword on Beatrice and swing a second time for 4400. Then he made Borreload, widow anchored Beatrice, and took sword in bp with Borreload. Then, i lost G3 in time bc Hayate is a pretty good card)
If I had caught myself a split second earlier, instead of saying "main phase 2", i'd have said "main ph..factor here is not royally screwing this up, borrelsword on beatrice change to defense"
So yeah, was in good position to top and then went x3 in the last round. I'll type up my decklist a bit later, I gotta pack my stuff and catch a train home but one thing I'd say is that I'll probably be siding Sauravis instead of Veiler next time. Didn't see any Prank-Kids which is probably good bc I haven't read half of those cards.
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Yup yup, the adrenaline was really pumping from 4-7. Especially in R6 bc like I'm very confident in BA mirrors but against Altergeist, it's like even if I have the advantage at the moment, I know that even the smallest misplay will lose me the game unless my opponent outright blunders. Even Sekka BA at complete full power w/ 3 everything including Top and TGU and even Mali would struggle against full power Altergeist, the matchup is that bad. You really really need to win G1 and then open a hard counter in G2 or 3.
Rhongo Bongo is just nasty, yeah...unkillable floodgate that prevents you from normal/special summoning with 3k attack that nukes your board and they drop it turn 1 all the time if you have no interruption.
Rhongo Bongo is just nasty, yeah...unkillable floodgate that prevents you from normal/special summoning with 3k attack that nukes your board and they drop it turn 1 all the time if you have no interruption.
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Yeaaaah but they're really rarely doing all that much through 2 handtraps and at least not getting Rhongo w/6 through 1.
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Wow, you did pretty good! Congrats!
I was also considering playing prank-kids. They remind me as ritual beasts with their playstyle. Only issue I have with prankids is that they can only destroy things. So if someone plots, say, a chaos max on the field, there's not much the deck in its pure form can do. Even paired with thunder dragons it still only destroys stuff. So other generic links like borreload are kinda necessary imo. But prankids seem to be decently able to push through negations, unlike ritual beasts.
I enjoyed reading the results from all your rounds. That borrelsword mistake really sucks and I'm sorry to hear that. That Rongo matchup sounds really hard as well.
I was also considering playing prank-kids. They remind me as ritual beasts with their playstyle. Only issue I have with prankids is that they can only destroy things. So if someone plots, say, a chaos max on the field, there's not much the deck in its pure form can do. Even paired with thunder dragons it still only destroys stuff. So other generic links like borreload are kinda necessary imo. But prankids seem to be decently able to push through negations, unlike ritual beasts.
I enjoyed reading the results from all your rounds. That borrelsword mistake really sucks and I'm sorry to hear that. That Rongo matchup sounds really hard as well.
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Yeah, you right. Confirmed this after playing vs some more Rhongo & reviewing decklists.PaChi2 said:
Thanks! I actually got around to reading the Prank-Kids cards and I gotta say that deck does a lot of things that I like and from what I can tell, I think I'd be very comfortable playing it. My fav decks are BA and Infernoid, and it seems to me like there are a fair amount of similar interactions and skills that would easily transfer.Litentric Teon said:
The deck has a lot going for it: lots of floating, battle phase tricks, protection effs, emeral-style recycling, walking raigeki+hfd that you can summon on your opponents turn that tribute for cost and give you high impact floating effs even if hit with solemns or sent to gy instead of destroyed, an armades for all your prank-kids summonable with instant fusion, a variety of levels allowing you tech a rank 1-4 xyz including Toad, a level 4 earth allowing you to easily add nat beast. It's also gotta be great in time for what it's worth and while this isn't related to how the deck plays, it is nice that it's budget. I'm not sure how consistent it is but it def has a lot of tools and a high ceiling.
For what it's worth, I never really worry about Chaos Max bc Borreload, Borrelsword, Ningirsu, and Kaijus for example all out it instantly but I can see the qualms about only having destructive removal in the engine. One of the things I love about Noid is the fact that it has nontargeting banishing removal for any card from Seitsemas' eff, and on top of that it can easily dodge floodgates+handtraps/targeting negation, giving you a dd crow eff in the process.
Ritual Beasts are another deck I've played and liked (it's hilarious fun to play with Necroface btw) but that deck really just doesn't do enough in modern ygo.
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Ooh, infernoid. That's a name I haven't heard for a while.
BA have been around for such a long time. It's crazy that they're still meta.
I agree with what you said on Pran-kids, though I don't think I'm going to invest in them atm, since I don't feel like shelling out the money. But I do think that they have a very high output ceiling. Unfortunately, things like Gozen match and rivalry kinda wreck them, which many decks can and do play.
As a long term ritual beast player, I can say that ritual beasts really struggle against handtraps. They need a turn to set up, and a turn to otk. Steeds is still one of the best traps in the game, though. Non-targeting destruction of multiple monsters multiple times a turn is rather difficult to deal with. Playing ritual beasts similar to tellars actually works wonders. Adding in things like torrential tribute to essentially have six forms of raigeki in the deck makes it one can almost always wipe the field. It's really about timing those destructions correctly. Obviously against BA, this is far less good. And everything is bad against a first turn Rhongo. But I digress.
I'm realy excited to hear about infernoids. I never played them myself but I enjoyed seeing them played. Decks where banishing is a key feature really intrigue me.
BA have been around for such a long time. It's crazy that they're still meta.
I agree with what you said on Pran-kids, though I don't think I'm going to invest in them atm, since I don't feel like shelling out the money. But I do think that they have a very high output ceiling. Unfortunately, things like Gozen match and rivalry kinda wreck them, which many decks can and do play.
As a long term ritual beast player, I can say that ritual beasts really struggle against handtraps. They need a turn to set up, and a turn to otk. Steeds is still one of the best traps in the game, though. Non-targeting destruction of multiple monsters multiple times a turn is rather difficult to deal with. Playing ritual beasts similar to tellars actually works wonders. Adding in things like torrential tribute to essentially have six forms of raigeki in the deck makes it one can almost always wipe the field. It's really about timing those destructions correctly. Obviously against BA, this is far less good. And everything is bad against a first turn Rhongo. But I digress.
I'm realy excited to hear about infernoids. I never played them myself but I enjoyed seeing them played. Decks where banishing is a key feature really intrigue me.
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@Pachy
True. Hopefully the banlist will chain Rhongo tho :^)
@LT
With respect to BA still being meta, what I'd say is that milling, floating, and free special summons are inherently resistant to power creep in ygo. This can also be seen with the long term success of Lightsworn and Mermail, hell even ABC to a certain extent though that deck is more normal summon reliant than the others. BA also has the benefit of having light and dark monsters along with Dante being generic.
Infernoid comes in and out of the meta periodically but with 0 Grass, 1 Reasoning, 1 Monster Gate, the deck is extremely bricky despite very strong cards like Void Imagination and Void Feast. BA Noid is probably the most viable way to play the deck at the moment but it's not nearly as strong as Sekka BA. It's really rough without Grass, the deck functions better with 60 cards because you don't actually want to draw most of the Infernoids that you'll be running. The deck needs external power cards for consistent setup and sadly Grass has no equal in this regard. If Reasoning were at 3 the deck would be better but you'd be compelled to not play any handtraps and the deck isn't immediately explosive enough to compensate for that. You could main Kaijus but then the already bricky deck becomes brickier. Imagine going first and opening a Kaiju, 3 Noids, and a dead Void Feast...that's really not all that unlikely. Overall, the deck is in a very awkward place rn.
The other thing that could make Noid viable is a super consistent one card engine capable of functioning on its own (*cough* *cough* Zoo) but I digress.
Noid has some significant strengths:
A toolbox of smaller monsters (levels 1-4, banish 1 noid from hand or gy to summon from hand) that can shuffle a set (level 1, Pirmais) pop a monster or s/t (level 3 Harmadik and level 4 Patrulea), or bounce a faceup card to the hand (level 2 Antra).
A toolbox of mid-size monsters (levels 5-8, banish 2 noids from hand or gy to summon from hand or gy) including a non-targeting banish in Seitsemas (level 7, must attack a monster to use this eff) for removal, a double attacker in Attondel (level 8, must destroy a monster by battle and send it to gy to use eff) and while these are less impactful Piaty (level 5, must do battle damage to use eff) forces a discard from hand, and Sjette (level 6, must declare an attack to use eff) forces a banish from the extra deck.
Two big monsters (levels 9 and 10, banish 3 noids from hand or gy to summon from hand or gy) in Devyaty (Heavy Storm on summon and quick effect to negate the activation of a monster eff and banish it) and Onuncu (Dark Hole on summon and quick effect to negate the activation of a s/t and banish it).
Infernoid Decatron which can send any noid to the gy and add that noid's level to its own and copy its name+eff.
Just having a couple Noids on board can make your opponent play inefficiently because the big guys offer negates and all the other noids have dd crow quick effs so it's easy to make your opponent's effs that activate in gy (besides those that remove themselves from there as cost) or target a card in gy fizzle if they're not careful or stop an ABC player from making Buster. They also tribute for cost so they can dodge targeting negation. On your turn, you can do cool things like nuking your opponent's backrow even if Skill Drain is up as long as you can get a mid-size noid on board and have a Devyaty ready to summon (summon devyaty, it triggers, chain the mid-size noid to tribute devyaty and target an opponent's card in gy. the mid-size noid is negged then devyaty resolves, you can also do something similar in BA by linking farfa and another monster into knightmare phoenix and going cl1 phoenix targeting skill drain cl2 farfa targeting phoenix).
Noid is one of the few graveyard centric decks that doesn't get shit on by Abyss Dweller because banishing to summon from gy are the noids' summoning conditions not effects.
The summoning conditions of noids only have restrictions based on levels and ranks so you can get great value by dropping some small noids, using their removal effs and then linking them away, probably into Knightmares, Underclock, or a Borrel- dragon, you can also play the Yazi combo to really go in and link spam a bit.
A live Snow is even more broken in Infernoid than in most decks because you can tribute her for cost with a mid-size noid after she attacks and then just summon her back for more damage. This is particularly lethal when paired with Attondel.
The noids have some solid atk values, especially with Duelittle Chimera, even without Borrelsword, you'll rarely ever struggle to get over big monsters. Master Peace was a real pain but that boi is banned now so no worries there.
Void Feast and Void Imagination are very high impact when they resolve. Any way you slice it, a single resolved Feast is 3 interruptions and double Feast gives you 5. You have the freedom to choose what sort of interruptions you want too, with one Feast you can have: 2 monster negates and a d.d. crow, 2 s/t negates and a d.d. crow, 2 d.d. crow, or 1 monster or s/t negate, etc..
Void Imagination is a continuous Shaddoll Fusion that sends 6 noids of your choice including an Onuncu and Devyaty, lets you pop 3 cards by sending n'tss, and mills 3 off the top of your deck and it sends itself to gy for cost so it can't be ogred.
Void Vanishment searches those two and also gives you Whiptail-style removal if a noid battles.
The engine is strong when it's online but as I said, consistency is a real problem. If BA was at full power, BA Noid would be much more viable especially since we have Dangers.
And yeah, board wipes are very low impact against BA.
If you like Ritual Beast Steeds, you should read Salamangreat Rage, it's like Steeds but it relies on link rating instead of monster count and its non targeting destruction for cards period, not just monsters and it's still live if you don't even have a Salamangreat link because it has another effect letting you send a Salamangreat from hand or field to target and destroy a card.
On Rivalry and Gozen...ugh I hate those cards. I really don't like most floodgates. I'm fine with cards like TD Colossus and Nekroz of Unicore because those are part of their respective decks' engines so you're necessarily going to be preparing to deal with them regardless, often by incorporating other engines that have synergy with the deck you're playing. Unlike unsearchable continuous traps where like...either your engine can natively out them (in which case your opponent might not even side them against you) or...you have to draw into removal that makes your deck less consistent. Those types of floodgates and the outs people side to them mostly serve to increase RNG and don't offer much value to the game IMO.
True. Hopefully the banlist will chain Rhongo tho :^)
@LT
With respect to BA still being meta, what I'd say is that milling, floating, and free special summons are inherently resistant to power creep in ygo. This can also be seen with the long term success of Lightsworn and Mermail, hell even ABC to a certain extent though that deck is more normal summon reliant than the others. BA also has the benefit of having light and dark monsters along with Dante being generic.
Infernoid comes in and out of the meta periodically but with 0 Grass, 1 Reasoning, 1 Monster Gate, the deck is extremely bricky despite very strong cards like Void Imagination and Void Feast. BA Noid is probably the most viable way to play the deck at the moment but it's not nearly as strong as Sekka BA. It's really rough without Grass, the deck functions better with 60 cards because you don't actually want to draw most of the Infernoids that you'll be running. The deck needs external power cards for consistent setup and sadly Grass has no equal in this regard. If Reasoning were at 3 the deck would be better but you'd be compelled to not play any handtraps and the deck isn't immediately explosive enough to compensate for that. You could main Kaijus but then the already bricky deck becomes brickier. Imagine going first and opening a Kaiju, 3 Noids, and a dead Void Feast...that's really not all that unlikely. Overall, the deck is in a very awkward place rn.
The other thing that could make Noid viable is a super consistent one card engine capable of functioning on its own (*cough* *cough* Zoo) but I digress.
Noid has some significant strengths:
A toolbox of smaller monsters (levels 1-4, banish 1 noid from hand or gy to summon from hand) that can shuffle a set (level 1, Pirmais) pop a monster or s/t (level 3 Harmadik and level 4 Patrulea), or bounce a faceup card to the hand (level 2 Antra).
A toolbox of mid-size monsters (levels 5-8, banish 2 noids from hand or gy to summon from hand or gy) including a non-targeting banish in Seitsemas (level 7, must attack a monster to use this eff) for removal, a double attacker in Attondel (level 8, must destroy a monster by battle and send it to gy to use eff) and while these are less impactful Piaty (level 5, must do battle damage to use eff) forces a discard from hand, and Sjette (level 6, must declare an attack to use eff) forces a banish from the extra deck.
Two big monsters (levels 9 and 10, banish 3 noids from hand or gy to summon from hand or gy) in Devyaty (Heavy Storm on summon and quick effect to negate the activation of a monster eff and banish it) and Onuncu (Dark Hole on summon and quick effect to negate the activation of a s/t and banish it).
Infernoid Decatron which can send any noid to the gy and add that noid's level to its own and copy its name+eff.
Just having a couple Noids on board can make your opponent play inefficiently because the big guys offer negates and all the other noids have dd crow quick effs so it's easy to make your opponent's effs that activate in gy (besides those that remove themselves from there as cost) or target a card in gy fizzle if they're not careful or stop an ABC player from making Buster. They also tribute for cost so they can dodge targeting negation. On your turn, you can do cool things like nuking your opponent's backrow even if Skill Drain is up as long as you can get a mid-size noid on board and have a Devyaty ready to summon (summon devyaty, it triggers, chain the mid-size noid to tribute devyaty and target an opponent's card in gy. the mid-size noid is negged then devyaty resolves, you can also do something similar in BA by linking farfa and another monster into knightmare phoenix and going cl1 phoenix targeting skill drain cl2 farfa targeting phoenix).
Noid is one of the few graveyard centric decks that doesn't get shit on by Abyss Dweller because banishing to summon from gy are the noids' summoning conditions not effects.
The summoning conditions of noids only have restrictions based on levels and ranks so you can get great value by dropping some small noids, using their removal effs and then linking them away, probably into Knightmares, Underclock, or a Borrel- dragon, you can also play the Yazi combo to really go in and link spam a bit.
A live Snow is even more broken in Infernoid than in most decks because you can tribute her for cost with a mid-size noid after she attacks and then just summon her back for more damage. This is particularly lethal when paired with Attondel.
The noids have some solid atk values, especially with Duelittle Chimera, even without Borrelsword, you'll rarely ever struggle to get over big monsters. Master Peace was a real pain but that boi is banned now so no worries there.
Void Feast and Void Imagination are very high impact when they resolve. Any way you slice it, a single resolved Feast is 3 interruptions and double Feast gives you 5. You have the freedom to choose what sort of interruptions you want too, with one Feast you can have: 2 monster negates and a d.d. crow, 2 s/t negates and a d.d. crow, 2 d.d. crow, or 1 monster or s/t negate, etc..
Void Imagination is a continuous Shaddoll Fusion that sends 6 noids of your choice including an Onuncu and Devyaty, lets you pop 3 cards by sending n'tss, and mills 3 off the top of your deck and it sends itself to gy for cost so it can't be ogred.
Void Vanishment searches those two and also gives you Whiptail-style removal if a noid battles.
The engine is strong when it's online but as I said, consistency is a real problem. If BA was at full power, BA Noid would be much more viable especially since we have Dangers.
And yeah, board wipes are very low impact against BA.
If you like Ritual Beast Steeds, you should read Salamangreat Rage, it's like Steeds but it relies on link rating instead of monster count and its non targeting destruction for cards period, not just monsters and it's still live if you don't even have a Salamangreat link because it has another effect letting you send a Salamangreat from hand or field to target and destroy a card.
On Rivalry and Gozen...ugh I hate those cards. I really don't like most floodgates. I'm fine with cards like TD Colossus and Nekroz of Unicore because those are part of their respective decks' engines so you're necessarily going to be preparing to deal with them regardless, often by incorporating other engines that have synergy with the deck you're playing. Unlike unsearchable continuous traps where like...either your engine can natively out them (in which case your opponent might not even side them against you) or...you have to draw into removal that makes your deck less consistent. Those types of floodgates and the outs people side to them mostly serve to increase RNG and don't offer much value to the game IMO.
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@Astral
The read on infernoids was a joy to read. Thank you for writing all of that (I'm not up to do the same for ritual beasts atm, lol. But I'm sure you know much of their tool kit based upon how much you may have played them, as it's a completely different understanding playing with and playing against the deck).
I'm honestly not that big a fan of the salamangreat archetype. I think they have a rather unique mechanic in that you have to make most of their things type, but it doesn't interest me too much at the moment. I'm much more into ritual beasts and Prankids, as well as thunder dragons.
As for rivalry and gozen, I think they're alright. Most decks are only affected by one or the other. And many simply aren't affected at all, so I don't hold too much issue with these floodgates. They're most effective against link climbing decks. But I'm not a big fan of link climbing in general, so I don't mind that gozen and rivalry stop it. Dedicated link decks tend to share attributes or types among all its monsters, including the links. Also, It's nice when I'm playing my little melodious deck and I can go ostinato, sit on aria and tam-tam, and have a rivalry or gozen facedown. Beating people with melodious is hilarious.
The read on infernoids was a joy to read. Thank you for writing all of that (I'm not up to do the same for ritual beasts atm, lol. But I'm sure you know much of their tool kit based upon how much you may have played them, as it's a completely different understanding playing with and playing against the deck).
I'm honestly not that big a fan of the salamangreat archetype. I think they have a rather unique mechanic in that you have to make most of their things type, but it doesn't interest me too much at the moment. I'm much more into ritual beasts and Prankids, as well as thunder dragons.
As for rivalry and gozen, I think they're alright. Most decks are only affected by one or the other. And many simply aren't affected at all, so I don't hold too much issue with these floodgates. They're most effective against link climbing decks. But I'm not a big fan of link climbing in general, so I don't mind that gozen and rivalry stop it. Dedicated link decks tend to share attributes or types among all its monsters, including the links. Also, It's nice when I'm playing my little melodious deck and I can go ostinato, sit on aria and tam-tam, and have a rivalry or gozen facedown. Beating people with melodious is hilarious.
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@Teon
Glad to hear you liked my writing on noids. I always want to include tons of detail and include anything that comes to mind that I see as being good to know; as a result, I'm often quite long winded so I always appreciate it when others read and like that stuff.
On Ritual Beasts, I'm a competent player. I just reread the cards and I'm sure I'd be able to pilot it pretty well, the proper order of plays uninterrupted is pretty intuitive. If I were to build it now, I'd play Necroface tbh, the deck is so thoroughly power crept that you'd need to get pretty lucky to rip off a chain of wins against modern decks. I'd def play Trap Trick and maybe even something sacky like Waking the Dragon. If your opponent is playing a deck that spams monsters and sees you search Steeds, they'll want to remove it before going in for their big plays. Can't say I see a path to being viable though. Buuut there's stuff ya can do, if you open Waking the Dragon and get the sense turn 1 that your opponent doesn't know what ritual beast cards do, make sure that they read Steeds after you search it like just flash it at the center of the table and declare the name when you do so. Twin Twisters is pretty commonly maindecked rn and a lot of players will just shotgun it into backrow, even more will if there are 2-3, many many more if there are specifically 2, and a truly massive amount of players will do so if they see you searching traps. Then game 2, side in floodgates and if you don't just lose early to a stronger engine, you'll prob be able to afford the wait if you draw them going second or otherwise not in your opening hand due to the opponent likely being squeamish about popping backrow after being screwed by WtG.
Personally, I actually really like link climbing as a feature of the mechanic. In any deck with monster effs that trigger when they hit gy, it allows for extremely efficient chainblocking via linking them away into a monster that has an eff that triggers on summon like the Knightmares for example. Replicating this under MR3 would require synchro summoning or contact fusion. It allows for engines to be combined together that would otherwise have no synergy and be completely unviable. It makes it easier to incorporate other summoning mechanics because it makes it easier to get your desired arrows and more precisely set up your graveyard. The increased capacity for chainblocking also allows otherwise fragile decks to force through major plays. Link climbing makes it far less likely that you'll be left with completely dead monsters on board. Despite my qualms with some very questionable individual card design (god, the new ghost girl hand trap is so toxic because of our end of match procedures) and banlist management (ESPECIALLY on the TCG side, OCG generally handles this better), I actually love MR4 and will defend it on its merits.
Salamangreat was such a joke before the new support but man, I gotta tell ya..I play a fair bit of OCG on duelingbook, that deck is strong. It's so consistent, has its own Infernity Barrier, blanket non-targeting removal for up to 4 cards at once, and vomits OTKs with ease. I found a solid observation about the deck in a YouTube comment section of all places: this player noted that the archetype has a themed: m-x-saber invoker, monster reborn, soul charge, zoo-like summoning method, super poly, armageddon knight, pot of duality sans special summoning restriction, RotA, and MST-like eff. Personally, I know I'm gonna give the Sals a run when the time comes.
Thunder Dragons are cool, especially their card art. If I played that deck, I'd def want to play a more aggressive variant with Dangers and such.
Prank-Kids are cool, I def agree with you there. I played OCG format BA vs Prank-Kids a couple days ago, my build is super aggressive, the only main deck defensive cards being 3 copies of Maxx "C" with Sekka's Light, Hydralander, and just all of the extenders and engines for power plays besides Dangers obv bc TCG exclusive (speedroids, mali, the little chaos dragons, gallis, rescue cat, edge imp sabres, etc). Other player went first and we both opened ridiculously well. He went second and just had everything, a loaded board with all his plays online, massive card advantage and Maxx "C"+Ash. I opened up first turn pretty modestly with Cherubini pointing to Beatrice and Graff got every engine online and just played through everything. I also got belle'd and then veilered twice lol. I baited and set up so perfectly, that game was ridiculous fun bc we both had all our tools and everything is going back and forth to like chain link 6. I had so much that I almost decked the guy out with BA and would have done so if he hadn't had that veiler in hand with 4 cards left in deck; he used it on my TGU, I hadn't even normal summoned until that point. I'm not quite sure how I managed to OTK through all that and 10k LP but damn it was good.
In practice, my problem with floodgates strictly has to do with their impact on the competitive scene. In that context, best case scenario they're a bandaid/highly imperfect solution for problems in the game that should be addressed in other ways like via the banlist, realistically I think they excessively contribute to RNG and thus are prima facie bad as the outcomes are more closely tied to the skill of the players without them.
It's not a knock on anyone for playing floodgates, they work and are legal in this game and depending on the deck you're playing and the state of the format, running any given floodgate may or may not be the correct decision and understanding that is key to success. It's just that at a competitive event where people put significant time and investment into the game with a goal to win and top major events, I think that just shouldn't be a legal win condition because I value, very highly, technical play being as close as possible to the deciding factor and the fact of the matter is: if a floodgate cripples a player's deck and the player has no available outs, technical play is effectively removed as a factor.
The one thing that makes me really torn about floodgates in competition is that sometimes they can actively benefit the engines of the decks that play them most and in those cases, I'm willing to prioritize that and I support them being at 3. Some examples would be Skill Drain (Qlis and Trains), Macro Cosmos and D Fissure (Ritual Beast, Metaphys), and obv, as I stated earlier if they're literally part of a deck's engine (Domain, Unicore, Colossus, Dark Law, Necrovalley, etc...), of course they should be at 3 so long as they don't legitimately break the game. Rivalry and Gozen are actually the specific sort of floodgates that I think should be auto-banned for competitive play: they cannot possibly directly benefit any given deck's engine, they can only lock the opponent out of playing their deck.
For casual play, I think they're all perfectly fine. I dunno, it'd be cool if alternate banlists were permitted/utilized at locals for their tournaments and regional events and up had floodgates in the form of unsearchable continuous monster effs and spells/traps effectively all banned save for the kinds of exceptions I indicated above but such a thing will more than likely never happen.
Never played Melodious tbh, I don't remember what those cards do.
Wait, also is you calling me 'Astral' a ZEXAL reference? lmao
Glad to hear you liked my writing on noids. I always want to include tons of detail and include anything that comes to mind that I see as being good to know; as a result, I'm often quite long winded so I always appreciate it when others read and like that stuff.
On Ritual Beasts, I'm a competent player. I just reread the cards and I'm sure I'd be able to pilot it pretty well, the proper order of plays uninterrupted is pretty intuitive. If I were to build it now, I'd play Necroface tbh, the deck is so thoroughly power crept that you'd need to get pretty lucky to rip off a chain of wins against modern decks. I'd def play Trap Trick and maybe even something sacky like Waking the Dragon. If your opponent is playing a deck that spams monsters and sees you search Steeds, they'll want to remove it before going in for their big plays. Can't say I see a path to being viable though. Buuut there's stuff ya can do, if you open Waking the Dragon and get the sense turn 1 that your opponent doesn't know what ritual beast cards do, make sure that they read Steeds after you search it like just flash it at the center of the table and declare the name when you do so. Twin Twisters is pretty commonly maindecked rn and a lot of players will just shotgun it into backrow, even more will if there are 2-3, many many more if there are specifically 2, and a truly massive amount of players will do so if they see you searching traps. Then game 2, side in floodgates and if you don't just lose early to a stronger engine, you'll prob be able to afford the wait if you draw them going second or otherwise not in your opening hand due to the opponent likely being squeamish about popping backrow after being screwed by WtG.
Personally, I actually really like link climbing as a feature of the mechanic. In any deck with monster effs that trigger when they hit gy, it allows for extremely efficient chainblocking via linking them away into a monster that has an eff that triggers on summon like the Knightmares for example. Replicating this under MR3 would require synchro summoning or contact fusion. It allows for engines to be combined together that would otherwise have no synergy and be completely unviable. It makes it easier to incorporate other summoning mechanics because it makes it easier to get your desired arrows and more precisely set up your graveyard. The increased capacity for chainblocking also allows otherwise fragile decks to force through major plays. Link climbing makes it far less likely that you'll be left with completely dead monsters on board. Despite my qualms with some very questionable individual card design (god, the new ghost girl hand trap is so toxic because of our end of match procedures) and banlist management (ESPECIALLY on the TCG side, OCG generally handles this better), I actually love MR4 and will defend it on its merits.
Salamangreat was such a joke before the new support but man, I gotta tell ya..I play a fair bit of OCG on duelingbook, that deck is strong. It's so consistent, has its own Infernity Barrier, blanket non-targeting removal for up to 4 cards at once, and vomits OTKs with ease. I found a solid observation about the deck in a YouTube comment section of all places: this player noted that the archetype has a themed: m-x-saber invoker, monster reborn, soul charge, zoo-like summoning method, super poly, armageddon knight, pot of duality sans special summoning restriction, RotA, and MST-like eff. Personally, I know I'm gonna give the Sals a run when the time comes.
Thunder Dragons are cool, especially their card art. If I played that deck, I'd def want to play a more aggressive variant with Dangers and such.
Prank-Kids are cool, I def agree with you there. I played OCG format BA vs Prank-Kids a couple days ago, my build is super aggressive, the only main deck defensive cards being 3 copies of Maxx "C" with Sekka's Light, Hydralander, and just all of the extenders and engines for power plays besides Dangers obv bc TCG exclusive (speedroids, mali, the little chaos dragons, gallis, rescue cat, edge imp sabres, etc). Other player went first and we both opened ridiculously well. He went second and just had everything, a loaded board with all his plays online, massive card advantage and Maxx "C"+Ash. I opened up first turn pretty modestly with Cherubini pointing to Beatrice and Graff got every engine online and just played through everything. I also got belle'd and then veilered twice lol. I baited and set up so perfectly, that game was ridiculous fun bc we both had all our tools and everything is going back and forth to like chain link 6. I had so much that I almost decked the guy out with BA and would have done so if he hadn't had that veiler in hand with 4 cards left in deck; he used it on my TGU, I hadn't even normal summoned until that point. I'm not quite sure how I managed to OTK through all that and 10k LP but damn it was good.
In practice, my problem with floodgates strictly has to do with their impact on the competitive scene. In that context, best case scenario they're a bandaid/highly imperfect solution for problems in the game that should be addressed in other ways like via the banlist, realistically I think they excessively contribute to RNG and thus are prima facie bad as the outcomes are more closely tied to the skill of the players without them.
It's not a knock on anyone for playing floodgates, they work and are legal in this game and depending on the deck you're playing and the state of the format, running any given floodgate may or may not be the correct decision and understanding that is key to success. It's just that at a competitive event where people put significant time and investment into the game with a goal to win and top major events, I think that just shouldn't be a legal win condition because I value, very highly, technical play being as close as possible to the deciding factor and the fact of the matter is: if a floodgate cripples a player's deck and the player has no available outs, technical play is effectively removed as a factor.
The one thing that makes me really torn about floodgates in competition is that sometimes they can actively benefit the engines of the decks that play them most and in those cases, I'm willing to prioritize that and I support them being at 3. Some examples would be Skill Drain (Qlis and Trains), Macro Cosmos and D Fissure (Ritual Beast, Metaphys), and obv, as I stated earlier if they're literally part of a deck's engine (Domain, Unicore, Colossus, Dark Law, Necrovalley, etc...), of course they should be at 3 so long as they don't legitimately break the game. Rivalry and Gozen are actually the specific sort of floodgates that I think should be auto-banned for competitive play: they cannot possibly directly benefit any given deck's engine, they can only lock the opponent out of playing their deck.
For casual play, I think they're all perfectly fine. I dunno, it'd be cool if alternate banlists were permitted/utilized at locals for their tournaments and regional events and up had floodgates in the form of unsearchable continuous monster effs and spells/traps effectively all banned save for the kinds of exceptions I indicated above but such a thing will more than likely never happen.
Never played Melodious tbh, I don't remember what those cards do.
Wait, also is you calling me 'Astral' a ZEXAL reference? lmao
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You'd actually be surprised. Because of Winda alone, ritual beasts now have danger in the fact that they can dodge targeting into a floater. Main issue with twin twisters is that it's a neg one is many situations. So blowing away the backrow doesn't necessarily get rid of the actual monster. In particular since Winda can float. This also doesn't take into account any kind of hand traps they might have for the opponent's plays. Their most difficult things are actually getting through any kind of interruption, which they do horribly without something already established, and their general consistency. Backrow removal is, of course, an issue, but it also varies based upon the deck as not every deck has archtype based s/t removal that's easily accessible. Similar to floodgates, drawing into s/t removal is also RNG based and not guaranteed by default. Ritual beasts greatest threat truly are interruptions as well as themselves. It's been that way since the inception of their archetype. There's a lot of niche plays that can really screw over a lot of beginner to intermediate players to the deck. Such as what to banish first in an idea combo, what order to loop fusion kannahawk, how to perform specific niche plays to out boards. Abusing pettlefin or apelio if necessary, what ratios of cards to play. It's much more complex that it seems at first or second glance, and games can be won or lost simply because the wrong monster was sent to graveyard off of a rampengu effect.
If you've seen PhoenixFlare's video on link climbing then you'll understand why I'm not a fan of the link climbing mechanic. The link 4 monsters tend to be pretty powerful. As they should at first glance, as they require four monsters to make them. Only this is incorrect, as cards like scapegoat can make them. A one card borreload or borrelsword that doesn't restrict your turn in any way. Link climbing promotes abuse of simply dumping everything into an unbreakable link board (knightmares). Though there are many unfair interactions. Many of these have been banned (Grinder Golem, Level eater), yet this promotion I find to be something that is not ideal for the game as it can hurt combo cards for other decks, and is the primary reason why links can be heavily exploited. As the link 4 monsters can be essentially cheated out by any engine able to simply pump monsters onto the field, or make something that creates tokens, allows for repetitive summons, etc. Things like needlefiber, Isolde, and summon sorc make access to these powerful boss monsters quite simple. Too simple, in fact. The fact that many of these links are generic (or generic enough) further adds to this issue. Synchros and Xyz have inherent level restrictions (and xyz summons can't be accomplished with tokens), something link monsters lack. One can literally slap together any combination of monsters and make a powerful board.
I can't say I disagree with your opinion on floodgates, but at the same time, I do think that it's good to have anti-meta sort of cards. Something that floodgates do provide. The entire game is really luck based regardless, despite some decks having higher levels of consistency. Every deck can brick, and in Yu-Gi-Oh there is no mulligan to attempt to offset that. Floodgates are typically an issue when they help the meta decks shut down most other decks, not when rouge decks use them to shut down the meta and play their game. I can't seem them as negative purely because if used properly they actually can serve to balance out the meta. Given that the Yu-Gi-Oh meta has been so dominant multiple times so as to exclude practically any rouge deck, I still believe floodgates to be a necessary evil.
Melodious are what the female lead, Yuzu, used in Arc V. They're pretty terrible, but fun to just troll with, honestly. There's no real way to make them competitive unless they get some really good support. Lunalight is far superior.
No my friend, lmao. Calling you Astral is what I would call a "typo."
If you've seen PhoenixFlare's video on link climbing then you'll understand why I'm not a fan of the link climbing mechanic. The link 4 monsters tend to be pretty powerful. As they should at first glance, as they require four monsters to make them. Only this is incorrect, as cards like scapegoat can make them. A one card borreload or borrelsword that doesn't restrict your turn in any way. Link climbing promotes abuse of simply dumping everything into an unbreakable link board (knightmares). Though there are many unfair interactions. Many of these have been banned (Grinder Golem, Level eater), yet this promotion I find to be something that is not ideal for the game as it can hurt combo cards for other decks, and is the primary reason why links can be heavily exploited. As the link 4 monsters can be essentially cheated out by any engine able to simply pump monsters onto the field, or make something that creates tokens, allows for repetitive summons, etc. Things like needlefiber, Isolde, and summon sorc make access to these powerful boss monsters quite simple. Too simple, in fact. The fact that many of these links are generic (or generic enough) further adds to this issue. Synchros and Xyz have inherent level restrictions (and xyz summons can't be accomplished with tokens), something link monsters lack. One can literally slap together any combination of monsters and make a powerful board.
I can't say I disagree with your opinion on floodgates, but at the same time, I do think that it's good to have anti-meta sort of cards. Something that floodgates do provide. The entire game is really luck based regardless, despite some decks having higher levels of consistency. Every deck can brick, and in Yu-Gi-Oh there is no mulligan to attempt to offset that. Floodgates are typically an issue when they help the meta decks shut down most other decks, not when rouge decks use them to shut down the meta and play their game. I can't seem them as negative purely because if used properly they actually can serve to balance out the meta. Given that the Yu-Gi-Oh meta has been so dominant multiple times so as to exclude practically any rouge deck, I still believe floodgates to be a necessary evil.
Melodious are what the female lead, Yuzu, used in Arc V. They're pretty terrible, but fun to just troll with, honestly. There's no real way to make them competitive unless they get some really good support. Lunalight is far superior.
No my friend, lmao. Calling you Astral is what I would call a "typo."
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Group F & G Cross-Banlist Cup 2019
HERE WE GO, the entire squad is assembled! Best Meta GO!
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Combo video for Salamangr8ts.
Also, I wish there was a handtrap that went:
1) During your opponent's Main Phase 1 if they send a card from either their hand or deck to their GY, you can discard this card: until the End Phase of this turn, all cards that are sent to the GY are banished instead.
This thing would stop FTKs because they rely on the GY for recursion and burning.
Also, I wish there was a handtrap that went:
1) During your opponent's Main Phase 1 if they send a card from either their hand or deck to their GY, you can discard this card: until the End Phase of this turn, all cards that are sent to the GY are banished instead.
This thing would stop FTKs because they rely on the GY for recursion and burning.
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Mmmmm....it's Kaiju Zoo though. A while back, I was discussing the development of zoo format(s) with a group (including a couple really great players and we came to the conclusion that of every major iteration of zoo, Kaiju Zoo was fundamentally the weakest, it was built to beat pure Zoo which was very vulnerable vs board wipes. If this was ZooNoid, TD Zoo, or ofc Fusion Sub Zoo I'd 100% agree but I have to think on this one.PaChi2 said:
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Zoo format was great jus saying
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The engine was incredibly splashable and raised the ceiling and consistency of any deck that could run it, the mirrors were fun and rewarded strong technical play. The gimmick itself was/is really cool. It was a great time to be playing and that deck did a lot of good for the game.
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I disagree with your apparent definition of degenerate. I'm also more than willing to defend them Rulers ovo
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One of the big 4 will win, fight me.
Its either 1. Nekroz, or 2. BA
Its either 1. Nekroz, or 2. BA
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Shugoshin Exodia (Exodia, Master of The Guard)
Level 10 DARK Spellcaster Effect Monster
ATK ? DEF ?
This card cannot be Special Summoned. If this card that was Normal Summoned by the method of its first effect battles a DARK Fiend monster your opponent owns and destroys it, you win the Duel.
(1) You can Tribute 5 monsters to Tribute Summon (but not Set) this card.
(2) This card's ATK and DEF are equal to the total original ATK and DEF of the monsters Tributed for this card's Normal Summon.
LMAO.
https://ygorganization.com/thelegendsarefromthepast/
Technically, with Summon Sorceress it shouldnt be difficult to achieve that condition.
Level 10 DARK Spellcaster Effect Monster
ATK ? DEF ?
This card cannot be Special Summoned. If this card that was Normal Summoned by the method of its first effect battles a DARK Fiend monster your opponent owns and destroys it, you win the Duel.
(1) You can Tribute 5 monsters to Tribute Summon (but not Set) this card.
(2) This card's ATK and DEF are equal to the total original ATK and DEF of the monsters Tributed for this card's Normal Summon.
LMAO.
https://ygorganization.com/thelegendsarefromthepast/
Technically, with Summon Sorceress it shouldnt be difficult to achieve that condition.
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I do not agree that splashability and consistency are themselves indicative of degeneracy in yugioh, the main feature in my view is removing player interaction which Zoo was not guilty of outside of arguably fusion sub.PaChi2 said:
Also that exodia card is awful lmao, tbh I can't wait for dzeeff's inevitable debunk vid on its viability, the comment sections in those vids are always gold
