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Across the Mario-Verse [2-A God Tier Upgrades & Cosmology]

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Alright, first off, I would really like to thank you for immediately poisoning the well, I love it when I give my honest opinion and get immediately called dumb for it with maybe a hint of accusation in there too, it really made my day so I just wanted to say thank you.

That said: What? No we haven't. The scan is clearly saying that whatever he's referring to, it's one place. Unless you're telling me that I'm supposed to look at your out of context poorly translated scan and take your own specific headcanon of it at face value, I don't really see how this place he's referring to should be assumed to be a multiverse. You're asking a lot of me without really giving me any evidence in return.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
What the **** are you talking about? This is so dumb.

World can mean literally anything and you're out here saying it means only a universe was made with everyone's dreams, you know, the dreams that can literally be about the universe?

Please stop. We've been over this.
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Armorchompy said:
Alright, first off, I would really like to thank you for immediately poisoning the well, I love it when I give my honest opinion and get immediately called dumb for it with maybe a hint of accusation in there too, it really made my day so I just wanted to say thank you.

That said: What? No we haven't. The scan is clearly saying that whatever he's referring to, it's one place. Unless you're telling me that I'm supposed to look at your out of context poorly translated scan and take your own specific headcanon of it at face value, I don't really see how this place he's referring to should be assumed to be a multiverse. You're asking a lot of me without really giving me any evidence in return.
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C'mon, guys; let's not do this. I already feel bad for the way I've been bugging Chompy, and I've tried apologizing to him.
 
I should mention that I share the same opinion as Armor here. I have additional scans I can provide in regards to the translations, but I'll have to send those later since my internet died.
 
It's literally made of uni+ dreams that the blog shows can be of an infinite amount due to infinite ghosts capable of dreaming.

How does this not work? The Multiverse is a place. A place full of universes. Well what do you know? Dream Depot is a place full of dreams that are universes. I don't understand your argument here.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
It's literally made of uni+ dreams that the blog shows can be of an infinite amount due to infinite ghosts capable of dreaming.

How does this not work? The Multiverse is a place. A place full of universes. Well what do you know? Dream Depot is a place full of dreams that are universes. I don't understand your argument here.
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Yeah, we've already been over how the dreams are universes in the Re-Upgrade for the Dream Stone.
 
Armorchompy said:
Ok so, provided that was true, the infinite statement is "this is an infinite dream", and tells us nothing about the size of the multiverse as a whole.
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Dreams already been established and accepted as universes here. Calling it an Infinite Universe shouldn't be anything mindblowing. Multiverses are, structures full of universes.
 
Armorchompy said:
The translation given seems pretty spotty and is barely comprehensible, but this just shows the dream world itself is infinite, not that there's infinite of them.
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That translation is spotty, yeah. It seems like the translator took "infinite" from "果てない", which more means "unending/undying". Especially given the statement of longing immediately beforehand, it makes me not really understand that even implying that the dream world is infinitely large. I'd ultimately go with something like:

"Everyone feels it; a longing for the universe. That unending dream makes them tremble with excitement!"
Armorchompy said:
"This is... a world made of everyone's dreams. Do you dream!?"

Besides this translation also being barely comprehensible (which means it should not be taken literally), it also says they're all one universe, which is clearly not the interpretation you're going with.
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That translation's pretty much correct. It describes the world being made of everyone's dreams in the same way that one would describe a table being made of mahogany. The second sentence is a lame pun.
 
Agnaa said:
That translation is spotty, yeah. It seems like the translator took "infinite" from "果てる", which more means "unending/undying". Especially given the statement of longing immediately beforehand, it makes me not really understand that even implying that the dream world is infinitely large. I'd ultimately go with something like:

"Everyone feels it; a longing for the universe. That unending dream making them tremble with excitement!"

That translation's pretty much correct. It describes the world being made of everyone's dreams in the same way that one would describe a table being made of mahogany. The second sentence is a lame pun.
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So, what is your vote gonna be?
 
Agnaa said:
That translation is spotty, yeah. It seems like the translator took "infinite" from "果てない", which more means "unending/undying". Especially given the statement of longing immediately beforehand, it makes me not really understand that even implying that the dream world is infinitely large. I'd ultimately go with something like:

"Everyone feels it; a longing for the universe. That unending dream makes them tremble with excitement!"
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So would you say it's likely not about physical size?
 
ZespeonGalaxy said:
Can i know how you got this translation
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"だれもがもつ" while plainly meaning "everyone has", is later shown to refer to a feeling. And I think in English it's more natural to say "Everyone feels" rather than "Everyone has the feeling of".

"うちゅう" gives us "universe".

"への" is a combination of two particles, grammatically indicating that whatever follows is acting in the direction of what came before.

"あこがれ" gives us "longing/yearning/aspiration/adoration". Since it's for the universe, I think "longing/yearning" is best, but ig I could believe "adore" too.

"そんな" indicates that the thing being referred to in the ensuing sentence is something distant from the speaker, but present in the listener. Given the context, I think that means it's referring to the yearning talked about in the previous sentence. It's also worth noting that these sorts of establishing words take on different flavours; ones for locations, ideas, people, etc. This one is for ideas/situations/actions.

"はてない" is explained in my last post. It immediately preceding "ユメ" (dream) means it's describing the dream(s) as unending. I put the "s" in brackets since Japanese usually makes it vague whether something is singular or plural.

"のなかで" indicates that whatever follows is inside whatever precedes it, while it can refer to a physical space, it doesn't necessarily do so. Given that I think it's referring to a feeling, I'm taking it as referring to something more metaphorical.

"ワクワク" is onomatopoeia indicating a feeling like excitement, nervousness, being thrilled.

"していく" indicates that the previously described feelings are increasing.

"のじゃぞ" is a bit of a zany sentence ending. It gives the impression of the sentence being an explanation. I'm not too sure what exact tone the "じゃぞ" implies, but my best guess is that of a wacky grandpa sorta character, like Master Roshi.

Given the context, I don't think it makes sense to say that the dream being referred to is a literal physical space of an endless size, but I can see how others would come to that conclusion. I think the presence of the first sentence, combined with the second sentence beginning with "そんな" instead of "こんな" or "この" or "そこ" are the main important parts for this.
Armorchompy said:
So would you say it's likely not about physical size?
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Yeah I doubt it.
JTGamer96 said:
So, what is your vote gonna be?
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None. I'm just here to help with translations.
 
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This is one statement from Party, and just one piece of evidence among multiple from Party alone.

It's reasonable to make sure translation is correct, or meaningfully supports the broader point of the blog. While important, this alone isn't a make-or-break point though on the 'world of dreams,' and let alone the broader evidence and arguments presented in the blog from other game sources
 
I have a translation for the Future Dream JPN statement from someone who translates JPN to ENG games for a living and he broke down the translation in detail for me, I’ve had several Mario related translations done for a Mario vs Sonic blog I’ve been working on to keep accuracy up.

I can send said translation and breakdown of why it came out how it did later
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
I have a translation for the Future Dream JPN statement from someone who translates JPN to ENG games for a living and he broke down the translation in detail for me, I’ve had several Mario related translations done for a Mario vs Sonic blog I’ve been working on to keep accuracy up.

I can send said translation and breakdown of why it came out how it did later
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Are you still in disagreement or do you have a different opinion on this now?
 
Here is the translation itself:



Here are various notes and questions I asked the translator in regards to the translations’ specifics:



IMG_7031.png

IMG_7032.png


IMG_7033.png
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
Here are various notes and questions I asked the translator in regards to the translations’ specifics:
Click to expand...
I'm curious what they think of my reasoning; that "そんな" would be weird for talking about the place where they both are (Future Dream), and thus, that it more likely refers to something else (people's yearning for space).

I think that if it was meant to be referring to the place, they would've used "この" instead. That's what I tend to see used when characters talk about worlds that they are in.
 
Agnaa said:
I'm curious what they think of my reasoning; that "そんな" would be weird for talking about the place where they both are (Future Dream), and thus, that it more likely refers to something else (people's yearning for space).

I think that if it was meant to be referring to the place, they would've used "この" instead. That's what I tend to see used when characters talk about worlds that they are in.
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I’m asking him right now, it’s been like 5 months since he did this translation so he’s looking over it again
 
Well on the off chance we go with newer translation of outer space instead of universe and space not being infinite there in the localization is this I had suggested a while back. As with the other threads those Subcons are treated as separated dreams to be travelled between by Wart.
 
Agnaa said:
I'm curious what they think of my reasoning; that "そんな" would be weird for talking about the place where they both are (Future Dream), and thus, that it more likely refers to something else (people's yearning for space).

I think that if it was meant to be referring to the place, they would've used "この" instead. That's what I tend to see used when characters talk about worlds that they are in.
Click to expand...
Alright yeah, I talked with him further, showed him your messages and thoughts, and he reviewed the translation a few more times and it turns out you had a point, nice catch! After evaluating it and the context more he thinks that it being in terms of the dream that lasts forever meaning, so "unending/endless" would be a better translation and it would be less likely for infinite space, and moreso just a dream that never ends.

Here's the updated translation (be sure to open the link, embed probably isn't updated):


Here's his updated thoughts on the matter:
IMG_7042.png

IMG_7043.png

image.png
 
I'm glad my intuition was correct. I'm not a professional translator, but I've done a bit of translating (and a lot of proofreading) for fan translations.
 
Mephistus said:
Well on the off chance we go with newer translation of outer space instead of universe and space not being infinite there in the localization is this I had suggested a while back. As with the other threads those Subcons are treated as separated dreams to be travelled between by Wart.
Click to expand...
Is this the only other proof of universal size for other dreams besides Future Dream? It's... pretty rough if true.
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
Is this the only other proof of universal size for other dreams besides Future Dream? It's... pretty rough if true.
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It's consistently has "Universe" described as a description. The intro mentions "Wonders of the Universe" and it's described as "Dream of the Universe" which means Dream about the universe.
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
I think you misread, I meant for dreams that ARE NOT Future Dream.
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Oh, other than that. Subcons from Mario 2 has multiple "Parallel world" statements, also Subcon and Subspace are both consistently large enough to at least contain starry skies. Dreams from Dream Team do too, and worlds/realms having consistent showings to be no smaller than 4-A sized combined with being "Parallel" to a Universe sized dimension is a listed justification for them being universe sizes.
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
Is this the only other proof of universal size for other dreams besides Future Dream? It's... pretty rough if true.
Click to expand...
I think there's two additional references about them being internally infinite besides this in dream team / smb2. But for now treat it as so since I'm not about to bend over backwards for something already accepted on the profile for how it's described when you save subcon.
 
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