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Across the Mario-Verse [2-A God Tier Upgrades & Cosmology]
- Thread starter Mephistus
- Start date
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Wow, very comprehensive and pretty damn hard to flat out deny. Good job! I didn't even think to research the Scarescraper at all lol
Count me as an agree
Count me as an agree
ZespeonGalaxy
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You see while I would likely understand this, I have to ask if you read the other 2-A Stuff besides LM2 Its not just that. Just seems like you are purposely ignoring everything else in the blog. Such as the SMB2 Dreams, Party 5 Dreams, and even SPM... Which are do not even use side modes. Only Luigis Mansion 2. The blog isnt based off JUST one side mode.
Oh and 64 TickTockClock is also seemingly endless when in the same game paintings are referred to as worlds So therefore infinite world if this helps anything
This would make 4 Mainline non side modes against 1 side mode game. Supporting 2-A cosmology. Which justifies a straight 2-A than "Possibly 2-A" if it was only LM2’s side mode. Than sure. Possibly 2-A works best. However this isnt the case
And even if TTC isnt good evidence somehow than its still 3 nonside modes against a singular side mode supporting 2-A cosmology which is already consistent.
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I don't think "Everything" was brought up in that blog yes. The Dreams and parallel universes statements and the "Universes that have consistent Endless/Infinite size" statements are used. But I think someone mentioning "Infinite paint" which sounds a bit vague. Though Bowser's Inside Story implying that atoms and molecules are consistently sentient and are shown to basically "Talk in their sleep" could be closer supporting evidence. Or that even Dream World residents can have dreams. And a couple other things mention or imply an infinite number of things that equate to life yeah but don't remember all examples.
Though I do agree there is more back up stuff to support 2-A, though I do not agree with "At least" given that any "Tier 1" related topics should at best be saved for a different thread.
DimeUhDozen
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If I had a nickel for every time a platformer verse's cosmology was made bigger by dreams, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice, right?
ZespeonGalaxy
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There are quite a few verses there the cosmology comes from "Dreams being universes." Quite a few RPG verses do too and some Anime/Manga verses, but please stay on topic if going to post here.
DimeUhDozen
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You're alright. And it's not like I mind comments like that; just some people get sensitive about derailments of other verses.
Kirbonic_Pikmin
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Three, actually!
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What's your input Kirb.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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Both of us disagree but I'm of the mindset of letting this pass because it has a really funny unintended consequence.
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I agree with this
ZespeonGalaxy
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@Maverick_Zero_X
@KingTempest
@Dereck03
Im aware your current stance on this is possibly 2-A. Though Im interested if this comment makes you rethink anything.
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None of the other sources support “infinite” amounts of dreams. The only evidence is the Scarescraper.
ZespeonGalaxy
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Did you forget about Party's support for infinite?
- Each of these dream worlds in the verse are established as a parallel universe that appear the same shown in Mario Party 5, as each Subcon would be recognized as a dream world there
- The constructs are shown side by side to be equivalent copies each holding a separate dream world (Japanese localization of Mario Party 5 has the same ending cutscene)
- A character knowledgeable about one of the parallel dream worlds visited states that the dream world is an infinite universe or in some translations an endlessly lasting dream; reportedly having a timeline in the future of Mario's main universe. This dream world shows up here showing its parallel size and visual representation next to the rest of the dream worlds.
- Bowser additionally states that everyone's dreams are what he's visiting at the intro of the game.
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Agree with this.
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I don't really know what you're referring to here
Tick Tock Clock probably also like, doesn't even exist by the end of SM64.
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That doesn’t support an infinite “amount” of universes, it just supports that dreams can potentially be infinite size in terms of 3D space. And even then, it specifically calls it an “endless dream”, which can also refer to the dream living forever as opposed to its size
ZespeonGalaxy
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1: What is not clicking? I'm directly telling you for a second time. That the infinite support isnt exclusive to scarescrapper.
2: How can you even assume TTC doesnt even exist at the end of SM64? Theres nothing to back that up.
Lou_change
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your evidence being?
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That's cool man, you didn't like, elaborate at all in that post though.
Maybe I'm getting my Mario 64 lore wrong but those worlds were created by Bowser, right? Why would they not be removed when he's out of the picture?
Also that's a scan from a... guidebook I think? I wouldn't give it much weight
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They weren’t created by Bowser, they were just modified by him.
ZespeonGalaxy
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??? I quoted and stated evidence from the blog, I dont know what you're trying to get out of this.
StretchSebe
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Tick-Tock Clock comes before Bowser's final boss battle like the rest of the in game levels/worlds.
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Alright, fair.
Are those even dream worlds? You aren't presenting any context.
The translation given seems pretty spotty and is barely comprehensible, but this just shows the dream world itself is infinite, not that there's infinite of them.
"This is... a world made of everyone's dreams. Do you dream!?"
Besides this translation also being barely comprehensible (which means it should not be taken literally), it also says they're all one universe, which is clearly not the interpretation you're going with.
Dust_Collector
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Yeah all of that really justs reconfirms dreams are universes, they don't really back up there being an infinite number of them.
StretchSebe
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Translation of japanese to english is rarely 1:1 given differences in the various branches of linguistics (notably semantics), but it seems clear the sentence is saying he's entered the world of dreams. Google translate also returns: "Here is. A world made of everyone's dreams. Is it Yumemir?"
In both translations, the meaning seems to be that he has in fact entered the world made of everyone's dreams.
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I still think the OP's blog makes sense, and could at least see a possibly 2-A rating, but I think some people in this thread are confusing "an infinite number of dreams" with "individual dreams being infinite in size" (the latter of which simply proves the dreams are Low 2-C given they're their own space-times)
ZespeonGalaxy
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Stated by a star that dreams that come true, this is meph's blog, not mine, they should know more than I do. Though I'll admit this is a valid concern.
This is still 2-A cosmology last time I checked, an infinite dream world. Its already established that dreams are universes in the Mario series. To address the "spotty translation" my phone copied all of the text, and was a 1:1 Comparison. Which I can prove right now if you want.
Eden_Warlock99
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2-A only comes from there being infinite dreams, infinite sized dream worlds don't really do so unless we use the atoms dream thing
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I find myself in agreement with Armorchompy.
Lou_change
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One semetic thing every endless mode of scarescraper has infinite Ghost in dark moon/2 since even rush mode which you could make a weak argument for not having infinite Ghost due to ghosts not being required to exist foe the game mode otherwise has a boss ghost every five floors.
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The statement says one single universe created by everyone's dreams, that's Low 2-C. What's the statement in English?
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When was this stated?
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What the **** are you talking about? This is so dumb.
World can mean literally anything and you're out here saying it means only a universe was made with everyone's dreams, you know, the dreams that can literally be about the universe?
Please stop. We've been over this.
Like I thought we've been over "world can mean literally anything in Mario" so the Dream Depot being a world that's a multiversal structure is okay? I don't see anything wrong with that given the evidence.
World can mean literally anything and you're out here saying it means only a universe was made with everyone's dreams, you know, the dreams that can literally be about the universe?
Please stop. We've been over this.
Like I thought we've been over "world can mean literally anything in Mario" so the Dream Depot being a world that's a multiversal structure is okay? I don't see anything wrong with that given the evidence.
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