A new type of Timeless Void?

[Bobsican]

Okay, so as we can see in the latest KH CRT, there's a lot of stuff that supports a good chunk of the cast getting Infinite speed via keeping up with fodder that naturally lives there, and it's explicitly stated that this is why that those that came of the outside (Aqua, for example) didn't age at all while being in it yet could move and keep up and all, while on the place where time was an entire decade has passed.

The problem? Well, travel speed doesn't seem to scale to it at all for multiple reasons pointed out, so it just falling as "can move in a timeless void" or a mere resistance to time stop were considered, however, this doesn't match any other type of timeless void on the page as of now.

Perhaps a new type could come from this?

 

[Antoniofer]

If people can simply "enter" into a place a void/spatio-temporal locked place and can still act normally then simply entering there isn't something notable. Yeah, is common for omeone do not aging while being is there, but if the place do not have a requeriment of who should be there or who doesn't then is nothing notable for the character simply being in there.

 

[Bobsican]

The thing is, there's species native to it that are always moving there, so those that can keep up with them (In this case Aqua), would scale to them in speed.

 

[Antoniofer]

When there's a being that exist outside time and space they have Immeasurable speed, but only in contrast, to those that are "inside" space-time, if two characters met with the same domain, in contrast they do not have Immeasurable.

Let's say these native beings get out of this place, how fast are they?

 

[Bobsican]

They are stated to be weaker while outside, but they don't really have anything noteworthy if we only go by what's seen, as they are surprisingly, fodder in verse to the main cast, but in their native place they are portrayed as a legitimate thread to watch out to them, including even the weakest fodder (if you could even consider it that while there).

 

[Antoniofer]

So ok, they are stronger while in their native realm (that from what I understand, its outside time and space), but anything notable of how fast are they within their domain?

 

[Bobsican]

Oh no, it's not outside time or space, it simply lacks time, simply put, it's an entire universe where time isn't a thing (Meaning that it would qualify for Infinite speed, rather than Immeasurable).

As for the speed, well, they don't show up as something that actually moves at high speeds, respectively (As it's a game series, after all), but it's stated quite a lot that it's timeless and there are entire buildings floating in the air and so on, for example.

 

[Antoniofer]

It sounds more like the Neverland, simply a place where time do not pass.

Nothing of what I heard suggest they having Infinite/Immeasurale speed, and now that the place is not spatio-temporal locked, do not even sounds like Immeasurbale in contrast, can they even time travel from within their realm?

 

[Bobsican]

Edited my reply, please read it again.

They don't time travel via speed there at all, it just is timeless, as said before, which would qualify for infinite speed rather than Immeasurable.

 

[Antoniofer]

This is the problem with standarizing concepts as this, simply being in a timeless place do not qualify for infinite or immeasurable (they are actually pretty similar if you think about, for our system the only difference is that one can time travel while the other not) without further evidence.

Even being localized outside time and space only guarantee having that in contrast, may not work if both characters are in "common ground".

 

[Bobsican]

Here's all the evidence

 

[Antoniofer]

So an nonexistent realm, ok, but we no real statement about "anyone needing infinite speed to move within the realm" then simply there's nothing remarkable about the speed of those that exist within.

Take a few consideration any time there ne realms appears: how can one access to it? what happens when someone/something enters on it? And if something actually happens, what can be done to avoid it?

 

[Bobsican]

1: When the Heartless absorb the "heart" (which is of abstract nature), the respective "world" tied to it falls into it, once finished, the conventional things in it suffer being time stopped (in simple terms).

2: Depends, as stated above, conventional stuff getting in suffers something similar to a time stop (As there's no time around it just stops there), but otherwise nothing (Which is the case with the top tiers of the series).

3: In-verse, it seems that nothing can prevent it beyond what's stated above.

 

[Antoniofer]

So, those that entered in the realm did age unlike this Aqua? Living beings that enter on it are capable to move?

 

[Bobsican]

No, no one ages there.

Only certain beings appear to be able to move (regarding living ones, of course), but it isn't explained why IIRC.

 

[Antoniofer]

If any living being that have entered there hasn't suffered anything more than simply stop aging there's no reason to assume they need to have infinite speed in order to move there.

 

[Bobsican]

No, their movement also stops.

 

[Antoniofer]

Ok, what is this being that stopped moving, and what have the other ones that allowed them to move inside?

 

[Bobsican]

Regular people, as for the latter, it's never actually stated as far I'm aware.

 

[Antoniofer]

So despite the lack of further proof, are you going to automatically assume anyone there have infinite speed? It could be any other reason, from Immeasurable to Temporal Immunity; and is just commenting the possible contradictions/outliers that could involve having infinite speed, but I do not known anything about the verse.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, after asking knowledgeable members, it all comes to the strenght of the user's "heart", the "abstract" thing everyone in the verse that exists holds.

 

[Antoniofer]

Ah, yeah, that has sense, see? One don't need to jump to conclusions using a different works as reference, there's no real standards, authors construct it as they wish.

 

[Bobsican]

What would this qualify for in this case then?

 

[Antoniofer]

Sounds like a "nature" rule, those with strong heart/supernatural willpower are capable to move within the Realm of Nothingness (whatever qualify as strong heart/supernatural willpower depends of the verse).

 

[Bobsican]

A "heart" here is basically a "soul" of abstract nature.

The question still arises, however, would those that can move there qualify for infinite speed?

 

[Antoniofer]

If the reason why other can move is cuz they have an "strong heart", then no.

 

[Bobsican]

Can you explain why?

 

[Antoniofer]

Is the only reason you gave me, that depends of one heart's strength.

 

[Bobsican]

I guess it would be too questionable?

 

[Antoniofer]

If is not explicity mentioned that someone needs to be have infinite speed, imeasurable speed, exist outside of time, etc, to be capable to move within that kind of realm, then there's no reason to assume so. Definitions before standards.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

Not here to say anything about a new void type, but clarify what Bob is trying to say. "Strong hearts" can move in the Realm of Darkness due being unaffected by darkness, which the Realm of Darkness is made up of. Beings who entirely lack a heart need something called a black coat, an inverse thing that wards off darkness.

Normal people taken there through the destruction of a world are unable to move due to said place lacking time (this part about normal people not being able to move was specifically stated by Nomura), with only the natural residents there being able to move, Heartless.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Antoniofer.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, it seems i focused too much on the context rather than what the new type would be (if it would be that, of course).

Basically, a type 4 timeless void would be this:

Type 4: Truly Inconsistent Voids: Voids that would qualify totally for type 3, but the ones that scale to it don't have Infinite speed outside of it. Instead of qualifying for infinite speed, being able to move in timeless voids is to be listed as a separate power.

It surely could be said better, but that's somewhat the idea, as in KH this is the new standard it's being subjected to, which no other series has been on IIRC.

 

[Antvasima]

We usually shouldn't scale characters speeds from timeless voids if it would contradict what is actually demonstrated too much.

 

[Antoniofer]

That's why I say, ignore the standards and look into the verse definition, if there's beings unable to move there and others can, then there most be a reason why that happens, going blindly behind Infinite/Immeasurable Speed is a stretch with no statements.

 

[Bobsican]

I guess just getting "can move in timeless voids" is fine per the standards then? As that appears to be what's being concluded in the current CRT.

 

[Antvasima]

@Antoniofer

Agreed.

 

[Antvasima]

@Antoniofer

Do we need to modify our Timeless Voids Standards page to better clarify this?

 

[Antoniofer]

I'm generally against the notion of standarizing everything, not all authors follow those rules, plus by dividing stuff into types will generally lead users to try to fit powers in those categories rather than look how the verse define it.

If looking for a modification, I would write something between the words of "consider the reasons of why a character is capable to move or survive within the void/timeless space, if it explicitaly requieres to move at unlimited speed to simply have an ability to allows to do so", but I'm not good writing that kind of stuff.

 

[Antvasima]

I meant should we write some further clarification regarding that the immeasurable speed should not be contradicted by what has otherwise been shown within the story?