Kingdom Hearts CRT 2: Electric Boogaloo

Time for another round of revisions for Kingdom Hearts, hopefully this thread goes well and no insults are thrown.

Infinite Speed Scaling
This part of the revision might get a lot of push back, so I'll be sure to give plenty of justifications and refutes.

Anyone who has travelled in the Realm of Darkness, reacted to Pure Blood Heartless, or anything of that should get Infinite Speed. This is due to the Realm of Darkness being consistently stated to be a timeless void . Incredibly reliable characters such as Aqua and Ansem The Wise have stated that it's entirely devoid of time, and we can see Aqua, who has been inside of it for 10+ didn't need food, water, and even sleep, despite her being Human and showing the need for such things in Kingdom Hearts. She also didn't age at all while in there.

Word of God from Nomura stated that people who were taken to the Realm of Darkness by their world being destroyed are stopped in time, and that Ansem was banished to a realm of nothingness. Ansem refers to the Realm of Darkness as "a world of nothingness" several times in his reports, giving more justifications to why it's a timeless void and meets the standards.

"I, too, have had everything taken away from me, banished to a hollow realm of nothingness.
What is Xehanort hoping to gain with my pilfered existence?
Will my people cease to smile?" (1)
"If the light of hope has been extinguished, I shall henceforth walk with darkness as a friend.
Here, in the realm of nothingness to which I have been relegated."(2)

"In this realm, where all existence has been disintegrated, I have just barely managed to preserve my sense of self by continuing to think and to write.
It is a place where even time has lost all meaning. Eternity is as but a moment here."(3)

"The distant days spent in that beautiful paradise are an illusion to me now.
How long have I been here, banished to the realm of nothingness?
It is only by relying upon my anger and hatred that I have been able to retain my sense of self here where all existence is nullified."(4)

"He is left wandering in the Realm of Darkness. Ansem the Wise, who had been banished to the Realm of Nothingness by his six apprentices, in KHII, wanted to release the Kingdom Hearts made from people's hearts that the Nobodies of his apprentices had made."(5)

"Could you please gather some information about the main characters? The reason Sora becomes Anti Form, the reason Riku is able to be selected by a Keyblade, Kairi's memories of Radiant Garden, Roxas and Naminé's differences from other Nobodies, the absence of Sora and them, their parents and friends, and what about school?"

"Concerning Sora's Anti Form, you could think that the reason is related to his changing into a Heartless once before. In fact, beyond Sora's Nobody, it is natural to assume that Sora is influenced by the Heartless. Riku's Dark Mode is similar. By using such a strong power too much, he may have ended up approaching too close to darkness. There should be a hint about Riku being a chosen wielder hidden discreetly somewhere in the additions to the game, so certainly try and find it. As for Kairi's memories, there's nothing particularly special about them. If I personally regained memories from before I was 5, I think I wouldn't remember many details about them. That is to say on a general level, there are things I would remember and things I would forget. Because there is already a detailed explanation of Roxas and Naminé being special Nobodies in this volume, please read the specific details there. I'll summarize it so its easy to understand.

Essentially when a strong hearted person has their heart stolen, they change into a Heartless, and on rare occasions their body changes into a Nobody. But in the case for these 2, for Kairi's heart to be hidden within Sora, it took a special shape. Moreover, when Sora himself was changed into a heartless he was purified by Kairi. In order for Sora to be revived without following the essential course, the special way Roxas and Naminé were born from these types, special Nobodies ended up being left behind. Still, I get the feeling from the story so far that Xemnas might also be a special Nobody. Finally, about the people on Destiny Island, at the time of Sora and groups disappearance, on the night of the storm from the previous game, Destiny Island itself ended up disappearing and for the people of that world time is stopped. Afterwards, Sora slept for 1 year, and then everyone's memories of Sora himself were no longer there. As such the memory actually became "On the night of the storm, Riku's body disappeared". Once Sora awoke, the memories of him returned. Eventually the memories of Sora, just as Riku was no longer there after the storm that night, were that both of them had disappeared."

Possible refutes:

A clock was shown to function in the Realm of Darkness, and could even rewind time to restore a bridge.

This is outright wrong. The clock's advancement is based on the gears Aqua finds around the clock entirely stops and doesn't move again until a gear is activated. Aqua's own statement right after the clock moves is that even if she made it in "time", that doesn't matter because time doesn't exist in the Realm of Darkness. In the game, an official descriptio can be read of what's progressing in the current story, and even it makes note that time doesn't exist, and that the gears were responsible for the clock advancing.

Even if this was legit, it would be as outlier as it's contradicted by MFTL+ feats.

Once again, this is wrong. The current feats are either scaled to Monstro, or scaled from the casual flight speed of a Keyblade Glider. Monstro is used to scale characters from the Gummi Ship as Monstro can outpace it. Not only is Monstro fodder, but he was completely fodderized by Aqua in Birth By Sleep. Fodder Heartless and Nobodies are capable of keeping pace with the Gummi Ship in fights, showing that even fodder are capable of doing casual MFTL+ feats. Pure Blood Heartless are native and originate from the Realm of Darkness, which I've already shown as being a consistent timeless void. So fodder characters are easily MFTL+ by themselves, showing that infinite speed is not at all an outlier for the series.

So who scales? Literally the entire verse, Pure Blood Heartless such as Shadows can be reacted to by even Disney characters, summons, etc. Either an "At least MFTL+, likely infinite speed" or straight up infinite speed would work.

Light and Darkness
Light and darkness are currently accepted as being concepts as they make up all of existence in Kingdom Hearts, which makes it a type 3 concept, but there is evidence that potentially makes it a type 2 concept.

For Kingdom Hearts itself to be brought forth, it needs to be summoned by a higher dimensional clash forged from the X-Blade. Xehanort, space-time was used as a portal to push him and the X-Blade out of the world for a time due to him 'transcending space and time'. The result is Scala Ad Caelum, the place where Kingdom Hearts resides. This shows that the thing that created all light, and is the embodiment of all light, exists above and isn't bound by the universe.

"2. False Platonic Concept: Such concepts, or forms, are mostly transcendent of reality. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts. These concepts interact with their objects in the same manner as listed above. In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept on whatever scale has been shown."

The current definition of a False Platonic falls under what can make light and darkness type 2 concepts. Bringing up another thread, Chaos in Castlevania was accepted as being a type 2 concept for predating the universe, which Kingdom Hearts, light, and darkness were stated to have existed before.

Nobody Additions
Intangibility: Nobodies can phase through attacks, especially when they're attacking or at will

Nobodies based on their physiology get Immortality Type 1 and 5. Type 1 by the fact they cannot age, as stated by Nomura, and that Ventus without his heart did not physically age for 10+ years. Immortality Type 5 by being non existent.

"About how old is Xemnas?

Nobodies don't age; they exist as they were at the time of becoming a Nobody. He seems about 30 years old?

This isn't exactly an addition, but a clarification. Nobodies are possibly a Type 2 NEP for lacking the concepts of light and darkness, which is what explicitly makes them non existent in the first place, with both their soul and body fading from the Realm of Light after having their heart taken. The NEP page even states that beings who are non existent on a conceptual level can qualify for it.

"2: Idealistic Nonexistence: The lack of absolutely everything to a state of nonexistence at a conceptual level. Such a state defies even the most basic logical principles and is unknowable in the truest form, as it is not a state at all. Such entities are typically presented as primordial voids or pure emptiness, or any abstract state which precedes or opposes the state of existence on all levels. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence."

Immortality Type 4: Nobodies get a non combat applicable immortality type 4 as it's possible for them to regrow hearts, which makes them exist agai.
Armored Xemnas uses abilities and weapons of the organizatio, and can very likely use all of their abilities as well. This is currently on his profile as a note, and Armored Xehanort has some only some of them listed, so he should have the following:
Sealing, Time Manipulation, Transmutation, and Law Manipulation from Luxord
Water Manipulation and Life Absorption from Demyx
Gravity Manipulation, Possession, and Spatial Manipulation from Xigbar
Wind Manipulation from Xaldi
Rage Power and Power Nullification from Saix

Black Hole Creation: Armored Xemnas was capable of creating a black hole and then tried to force Riku and Sora into it

BFR: Twilight Xemnas brought Sora and Riku into the Realm Inbetwee .

Enhanced Power Nullification and Life Absorption for Twilight Xemnas. Also note that his profile for Invitation To Nothingness states that if given enough time, the heart will be extracted, that's why "enhanced" is there.

Law Manipulation: When Luxord initiates his game, Sora immediately has to follow the "rules" of it, such as the timer for the fight, having to stop and pick the right command, getting turned into a die or card, etc .

Fusionism, Statistics Amplification, and Transformation: Marluxia does all of this his final fight with Sora .

Data Manipulation, Information Analysis/Manipulation, Duplication, and Power Mimicry: Vexen creates duplicates of people, in this case of Sora's Anti Form.

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 4): Nobodies stole the word photo to the point everyone was incapable of saying the word photo, and Roxas himself notes that the word was stolen as well.

If that's not enough, the book went into more detail, showing that Roxas couldn't even think the word, showing that they truly did steal it and didn't just take their ability to say it.

"Thank you, ma'am," Olette said. "So, what did they take from you?" "I can't say the word, but… My —. — My precious." She sounded mournful. "They took ours, too!" Pence cried. "So, the culprit is going around stealing —. And not just —, but the word —, too," Hayner said, looking at Roxas. He nodded. But why would a thief steal — ? "I wonder if Seifer knows anything about it," Olette murmured. "We'll have to go ask him," Roxas said. The other three nodded. "Thanks, Auntie Elmyra!" They waved to her and took off for the sandlot."

BFR, Transformation, and Statistics Amplification: Xion right before her boss fight BFRs Roxas into a portal, and during her fight transforms multiple times, with each transformation multiplying her power.

Stealth Mastery: The Assassin Nobody quietly hides in the ground.

Spatial Manipulation: Like Xigbar, the Sniper Nobodies warp space around them while defying gravity.

Transmutation: The Gambler Nobodies turn you into a playing card or die.

Rage Power and Body Control: Berserker Nobodies, similarly to Saix, can go into a rage state to attack, and they can shrink their body and grow their hammer to increase their damag.

Weapon Mastery: The Samurai Nobodies are extremely proffecient in sword.

Martial Arts, Weapon Mastery, and AfterImage Creation: The Ninja Nobodies use lightning quick reflexes to attack with martial arts, sharp weapons, and creates solid afterimages.

General Additions
Vanitas should be Non Corporeal due to what Nomura said.

"What about Vanitas?

Vanitas is different than Xemnas and Ansem; he doesn't necessarily have a physical form. He reacted to Ventus within Sora, so that's how he was visible."

Power Nullification: All characters who show up in Chain of Memories are capable of breaking cards with the card break system, which includes phsyical attacks, magic, resistances, etc. The system is entirely canon as cards are created from Sora's memories. The who use it include: Lexaues, Zexio, Marluxia, Larxene, Axel, Vexe, Riku, Riku Replica, Sora, and Heartless.

BFR and Pocket Reality Manipulation: Young Xehanort created an area to fight Riku in, and then took him there.

BFR and Pocket Reality Manipulation: Terranort dragged Aqua into his heart, and it was stated to be an alternate dimension, which we see stars i. This could likely give every character a non combat applicable Pocket Reality Manipulation, Danny Phantom characters have a similar thing.

Telepathy, Illusion Creation, and Astral Projection: Terranort/Terra was capable of communicating with Aqua while she was in the Realm of Darkness, could cover his appearance of being possessed by Xehanort, and projected himself outside of his body to restrain Terranort.

Immortality Type 7 Negation for being able to kill undead Heartless such as the Search Ghost, Carrier Ghost, Hover Ghost, etc.

Chain Manipulation: Terra scales to the Lingering Will's use of the chains, and he could restrain Terranort.

Spatial Manipulation: Ansem warped the background.

Duplication: As Xehanort's younger self, he should be able to duplicate himself.

Empowerment and Power Bestowal: Xehanort granted his younger self the Keyblade, which made him stronger, and granted him the powers of Time Travel.

Shadow Manipulation, Power Mimicry, and Duplication: Riku created a dark duplicate of Sora from his shadow.

Statistics Amplification and Transformation: Riku can increase his stats by transforming into Dark Mode, and as well as the Riku Replica.

Acausality Type 1 and Non Corporeal: Riku Replica could co-exist in the present with his past self and vice versa, and exists as only a heart in KH3.

Summoning: Riku Replica summoned hundreds of Heartless to attack the Guardians of Light.

Riku gets all cards that can be used in Chain of Memories, similarly to Sora.

And finally, the Riku Replica should get every power Riku had up until Chain of Memories, as he was designed as a duplicate of the original Riku.

Sleep Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, Statistics Reduction, and Power Nullification: Young Xehanort put Sora in a sleep so bad, that it entirely destroyed his powers, previous people connected to him, and induced a nightmare in the form of the Armored Ventus Nightmare.

Resurrection: Keyblade Wielders possess the Power of Waking, which is capable of waking sleeping hearts.

Invulnerability: Anyone with Leaf Bracer or a similar ability briefly become invincible while healing.

Immersion: Sora was able to enter the Winnie the Pooh book, and Riku dove into Sora's dreams. Anyone with the Power of Waking in general are able to enter dreams.

Text Manipulation: Sora can interact with the text in Winnie the Pooh's book.

Once again like the last CRT, Xehanort's gets the above shown by his vessels as he merged with them.

Resistances
Resistance to Dream Manipulation: Ventus' heart is what protected Sora from the darkness,and as Riku is Sora's dream eater, he's tasked with defending him from nightmares. This likely scales to anyone else with Keyblade Armor as Ventus' armored is what protected Sora.

Resistances to Sleep Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, Statistics Reduction, and Power Nullification: Young Xehanort's statement implies Riku grew a resist to darkness as a whole. Riku himself also states that he has conquered his own personal darkness in the form of Ansem, making the powers of darkness entirely uneffective on him.

Resistance to Data Manipulation: This applies to everyone, as the heart was stated by Ansem to be incapable of being contained within data, and the process itself would be incaculable.

Resistance to BFR: Sora can break out of Zexion's book after he was trapped in there by him.

Resistance to Sealing: Donald, Goofy, and Sora are capable of breaking out of being sealed in a book... while already inside a book.

Resistance to Illusion Creation: Sora breaks out of Zexion's ability to mess with his commands, note that Zexion's abilities are mostly illusion based.

Resistances to Life Absorption, Attack Nullification, and Power Nullification: Sora breaks out of Xemnas' ability to do the above, he also breaks out of the Lingering Will locking his commands.

Resistance to Possession: Sora scales to Roxas who's able to remove the Carrier Ghost from himself , which is stated to possess people. He scales for the reason that Roxas is his Nobody. Sora, Donald, Goofy, Buzz, and Woody are also capable of fighting the Marionettes, who possesses nearby toys, despite all 5 of them being toys.

Resistance to Black Hole Manipulation/BFR: Riku and Sora were unaffected by the Black Hole Xemnas tried pushing them into

Resistance to Information Manipulation: The Nobodies in Castle Oblivion were unaffected by Namine's powers, which basically rewrites memories, which makes up the heart as a sort of 'conceptual piece', without them, people would be empty and lifeless, with their heart being destroyed, his heart filled with no empathy and not caring.

Anyone who currently has the Masters Circle should be given resistances to most of the organization members power's, as most of their powers derive from their main element. They do currently resist the affects of the elements, but that's about it, so this would include additions resistances such as:

Transmutation, Explosion Manipulation, Attack Reflection, and Perception Manipulation from Xemnas.

BFR, Sealing, Pocket Reality Manipulation, and Power Mimicry from Zexion.

Curse and Death Manipulation from Marluxia

Riku gains resistances via the specific sleight cards shown in Chain of Memories.

Resistances to Absorption and Death Manipulation: This applies to any character as they're capable of fighting Heartless, which kill things by being near things, and taking Hearts.

Profile Cleanup
Currently profiles such as Xemnas have things listed like "create illusions or alter the perception of others" instead of listed as outright Illusion Creation and Perception Manipulation. Xemnas, Xigbar, Xaldi, Vexe, Lexaeus, Zexio, Saix, Axel, Demyx, Luxord, Marluxia, Larxene, Roxas, Xio, Ansem, Anti Black Coat, Leon (Kingdom Hearts), Yuffie (Kingdom Hearts), Terra (Kingdom Hearts), Aqua, Maleficent (Kingdom Hearts), Pete, and Master Eraqus are currently the ones with profiles like this.

Conclusion
Every current character with a profile gets infinite speed

Light and Darkness become type 2 concepts

Nobodies get Intangibility, updated NEP, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 4), Stealth Mastery, Afterimage Creation, Weapon Mastery, Rage Power, Body Control, Martial Arts, and Spatial Manipulation

Water Manipulation, Life Absorption, Gravity Manipulation, Possession, Spatial Manipulation, Wind Manipulation, Rage Power, Power Nullification, Time Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Transmutation, Sealing, Black Hole Creation, BFR, Enhanced Life Absorption, Enhanced Power Nullification, and Enhanced Attack Nullification for Armored Xemnas and Twilight Xemnas

Data Manipulation, Information Analysis/Manipulation, Duplication, and Power Mimicry for Vexen

BFR and Pocket Reality Manipulation for Terra and Young Xehanort

Duplication for Xehanort

Telepathy, Illusion Creation, Astral Projection, and Chain Manipulation for Terra

Invulnerability and Resurrection for all Keyblade Wielders

Empowerment, Duplication, and Power Bestowal for Xehanort

Sleep Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, Statistics Reduction, and Power Nullification for Young Xehanort

Immersion for Sora and Riku

Text Manipulation for Sora

Spatial Manipulation for Ansem

Non-Corporeal for Vanitas

Resistances to Life Absorption, Attack Nullification, Power Nullification, Sealing, BFR, Illusion Creation, and Dream Manipulation for Sora

Resistances to Sleep Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, Statistics Reduction, Power Nullification, Black Hole Creation, and BFR for Riku

Resistance to Possession for Sora, Goofy, Donald, Buzz, and Woody

Resistance to Sealing for Donald and Goofy

Resistance to Information Manipulation for Nobodies

Reistance to Data Manipulation for all characters with a heart

Transmutation, Explosion Manipulation, Attack Reflection, Perception Manipulation,BFR, Sealing, Pocket Reality Manipulation, Power Mimicry, Curse Manipulation, and Death Manipulation for anyone with the Masters Circle

Solid work Speedster, this looks very good and nice to add.

Though, my only comments would be that Riku's Darkness resistance gets further clarified but that's it.

I agree with all of this.

Inverted Tempest said:

Solid work Speedster, this looks very good and nice to add.

Though, my only comments would be that Riku's Darkness resistance gets further clarified but that's it.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll update the post now with a better explanation for Riku.

I've found more things, so I'll be adding them to the main post.

Seems fine

Seems good for now, I'll wait for KH experts to show up

Okay, let's see...

Buzz actually got possessed by a Marionette, didn`t he? The resistance to it coming from being able to fight them when they can actually be affected by their ability with no issue if they don't watch out leads into such resistance not actually being a thing, respectively.

Resistance to black holes falls as a resistance to Gravity Manip, but it can totally be listed in the feats section.

You forgot to mention in the conclusion section abut the card stuff, anyways Riku Replica getting all the same cards as Riku is dubious as he comes from his combat data, meaning that scaling ALL of his memories to Repliku is dubious at best.

Everything else seems fine, for now, as I may have missed something.

Buzz didn't get possessed, you're probably thinking of Young Xehanort mind controlling him. Again, they're toys fighting dozens of them. Marionette's specifically possess toys around them. This is different than just fighting a character who has abilities.

Alright.

I didn't mention the cards for the Riku Replica. I said "up until", he'd only get abilities from what Riku showed in KH1.

There's an actual cutscene of a Marionette clearly possessing Buzz, after which Young Xehanort grabs Sora and BFRs him into Verum Rex.

Oh, in that case it's fine.

I forgot that the Marionette possessed him, but regardless, Sora, Donald, and Goofy should at least be able to resist it, not Buzz and Woody.

Fair enought.

Okay, let's wait for how much this thread explodes.

Oh god,i'ts God of War revisions all over again.

Retrieving Ever immediately.

"The only stuff I disagree with are: -Infinite speed, but I don't really have an argument against it, I just feel iffy -Nobodies having Type 4 Immortality, because I don't know if that actually counts for Type 4 -Nobodies having Type 2 NEP just for the fact that, wasn't that just limited to 1-As? I genuinely can't remember if that got changed -Ansem having Spatial Manipulation, just because I feel like the example given is too vague to be called that"

-Ever

Thanks.

Sure.

My opinion's the same as Ever's. General additions I was always fine with, and Ever's words make me begrudgingly agree with the resistances and conceptual stuff. I'll never agree to the infinite speed, as it's contracted by literally everything in the franchise. Every "but..", the rebuttal is "insert anti-feat here". Nobody here is beyond time or anything like that.

What feats contradict the infinite speed? Every MFTL+ feat is performed extremely casually, either by Monstro or the Keyblade Glider. Even fodder Heartless have MFTL+ feats.

Infinite speed could just go down to the likely if it's an issue of iffiness, though I do think Ever should probably think more to elaborate here.

Type 4 I think just comes from them becoming somebodies again? They should have something similar to this regardless because I think the Absent Silhouettes could qualify as this. Either way, I think it just stems from this falls under Resurrection dually.

Type 2 NEP can apply to people below 1-A. Pretty sure Kriemhild Gretche shares it for a similar as to why the nobodies would.

I mean, Ansem already has Spatial Manipulation on his profile regardless. This could probably fall under Reality Warping is what I'd say.

He perhaps means the travel speed, which is the most glaring thing if you ask me.

Unless something as weird as "MFTL+ with Infinite reactions" is reasonable or something like that.

Name a speed feat of the verse and it contradicts infinite speed. Literally all.

Laser dodging? Inability to dodge Monstro? Being too late to save Aqua from being 'Norted? Donald being unable to catch Sora before he turns into dust in KH1? Being caught in run-of-the-mill time stop? Literally every feat is an anti-feat. In order to be infinite speed, time has to be your bitch, and that's not the case for KH characters.

Sora and Riku react to a whole bunch of lasers from Twilight Xemnas, which were all from an omnidirectional stance mind you.

From what's been shown already, Monstro did that feat uber casually. All that means is that it would scale.

There's nothing Donald legit can do about Sora being consumed by the darkness. That's not much of anti-feat.

Uh "run of the mil time stop"? They quite literally resist it because of the Keyblade, that was made clear with Data-Sora. They have an entire chain though of Time Manipulation bypassing such as with Lethal Flame. I wouldn't call that remotely ordinary at all.

A quantifiable feat. Therefore contradicts infinite.

A quantifiable feat. Therefore contradicts infinite.

Donald couldn't cross a couple meters before Sora could fall to the ground.

Missed the point. If everyone and their mom is infinite speed, Stop(ga) is useless, which it's not. No matter who it's used on.

How is that a contradiction if they're reacting to every laser thrown at them exactly?

Casual speed feat =/= Contradictory. That's self-explanatory on why that's a false premise.

You should better clarify your example. This is quite literally a cinematic thing done for drama. With this type of logic, Arceus unironically would be downgraded from Infinite speed with such logic given it needed to cross distances and didn't do so instantaneously, fails to react to a Pikachu, fails to react to fully evolved Pokemon using Shock Wave on it, etc.

How did that remotely miss the point? You realize that just means the Time Stop is potent enough to affect Infinite speed individuals, right? That's not an anti-feat at all.

Because it's quantifiable and they exude effort. Therefore making it a contradiction to something literally infinitely higher.

Infinite Monstro crosses infinite distance in an instant. Not to mention you don't need to be sweating buckets as proof for casualness. In fact, I dare say not a single feat of speed in general is done casually. Not to mention there's a metric ton of lower than FTL speed feats to contradict. I literally don't need to look, as any speed feat at all proves my point.

One of them is beyond the literal concept of time and in fact has it as an aspect of oneself. The other scales off a girl trapped in a void so she doesn't age. Not comparable.

No. You don't get that option here (forgive me for the rudeness there). Not only are you arguing that every character has infinite speed, but everyone has broken timestop that can stop you if you're beyond speed entirely. I'm not talking about Lethal Frame. I'm talking about Stop.

Why are projectiles that are literally being fired by a character who scales to them in speed relevant? Twilight Xemnas would be firing them at infinite speeds, simple as that.

Infinite speed characters are constantly shown to be unable to reach somewhere, that's PIS, and it's literally been like that here for the longest time. Monstro's destination was literally nowhere, he outpaced the Gummiship in travel speed casually. A casual feat is literally relevant.

Not commenting on what was mentioned with Arceus since I don't know Pokemon.

You want me to name several characters who are currently listed here as being time stopped despite having infinite speed or higher? It's a potency of the time stop. Also, Lethal Frame is created from stop, it's from literally the same group of magic. Stopga and stopza are literally depicted as the most powerful time stops in the series.

Because that's an excuse. In order for him to be firing at infinite speeds, he would have to be infinite speed. Which he isn't yet.

Now that you mentioned it, the Gummi Ship in general is an anti-feat, given that it needs to warp to fast travel. Also I repeat what I said before. Just because a character isn't out of breath or severely wounded doesn't mean a feat is performed casually.

No need. I know several. The difference being it's one or two characters a verse, as opposed to a busload that you're trying to push.

I'm only going to reply to what Speedster didn't here.

You clearly missed the point of the argument. It was that Arceus has Infinite speed feats, does it not? Then those lower showings don't matter because they're not consistent enough to drag it down. We don't rely on a medium to constantly emphasizing the same speed feat over and over again, or else your logic would be erroneous enough to get literally any verse downgraded if it's not shoved down your throat.

Also, it's more than just "a girl was trapped in a void". Pureblood Heartless are native to the area and they are literally the fodder of the verse. This feels like a ridiculous discussion to have even off of that alone. There are plenty of examples of characters scaling off of it or just moving in it for extended periods of time. This quite literally is you neglecting numerous details to make a statement like this.

I am also in disagreement with Infinite Speed as well

Arceus has infinite speed feats, yes. But if they weren't supported by the very nature of his existence. Not to mention Arceus appears less than ten times throughout the entire franchise and has next to nobody that scales to it, while KH has 10 or so games to contradict this.

Proving my point further if they're scaling to the gosh darned Shadows. Even beyond the fact that even that's contradicted by the fact that it takes time for the Heartless to consume worlds, the fact that the KH equivalent of an effing Goomba is being considered to be infinite is ridiculous and an outlier as heck.

That's not remotely an excuse at all. The laser feat you're trying to use here is from a character not even proven to have those be actual lasers. They're just called that and don't remotely fit any of the other criteria. Because of that, they're generated lasers from Xemnas and should be comparable to his own attack speed. This is not the only time where such a thing happens. Golden Sun is literally treated as being MFTL+, yet they can be tagged by casted lightning attacks. Does that make them MHS+ at best now? **** no. There would have to be so much proven for this point to remotely be valid for you. You have absolutely nothing to suggest this as a quantifiable feat in finite speed, meaning your point is moot.

What does the quantity have absolutely anything to do with this? We've clarified already that they already have potent time stop if they can affect people even with resistances. I would understand if this is a normal time stop, but it objectively isn't a normal time stop Cal. Your point makes no sense and isn't an anti-feat, all it does is just increase the potency of an already potent Time Stop.

Also, from what we're discussing in the group chat, Ever seems to actually seems to have no problem with Infinite speed being added. I see no reason as to why this is a problem.

He is infinite in speed, literally right after Xemnas was destroyed, Sora and Riku were walking around in the Realm of Darkness. Riku and Mickey were in the ******* Realm of Darkness during KH1, Xemnas is literally a boss battle in KH1 in Hollow Bastion. Multiple people have been in the RoD, people who were below Xemnas at the time. Pureblood Heartless, which literally have the most fodder enemy in the game, a Shadow, are native to the Realm of Darkness. Literally everyone reacts to them .

The Gummiship is their only method of travel for getting to worlds, the qwarping option is literally for saving time so that you don't have to enter a battle everytime you travel between worlds. It does, if a character was shown to a feat while not visually struggling or feeling fatigue, they're not give it 100% or even close.

No, there are literally more than "one or two" characters in a verse with time stop like that. Regardless, that is irrelevant as a comparison here as stop is quite literally a common spell.

It's an anti-feat. Same with Marvel top tiers being tagged by lightning. It scales with them, but calcs are only made with the noted speeds. And yes I totally do have things to suggest the fact that it's a quantifiable speed feat, in the fact that it's quantifaible at all. I don't think you're understanding teh concept of infinity here. No matter what you say, there will always be something to contradict. Unless the very nature of the characters are supported by this with some serious time shenanigans going on, this will never have my approval. Period. This isn't an Ever based thing.

"It does, if a character was shown to a feat while not visually struggling or feeling fatigue, they're not give it 100% or even close."

No. No it does not. Take Cell for example, who is very explicitly limited at his solar system level feat, and he's smiling and acting cocky throughout all of it. No struggle or fatigue at all.

The Heartless are getting Infinite speed off the nature of their existence as well. Do you even yourself? And yet Arceus has amassed a decent bit of anti-feats if we want to follow your logic such as in the Team Rocket Arc in the Manga, the movie about it, etc.

Your point is based off of quantity and being worried off of that when quantity is what unironically has about 15 different timeless void feats coming from the Realm of Darkness. I'm not sure how you can worry about it applying when there are a **** ton of feats surrounding it. I'm not seeing how Goombas remotely relate to demeaning this if there are other verses where fodder are treated as a baseline for multiple characters to scale off of, this is nothing new. List when a Goomba has an Infinite speed feat and has a timeless void as its natural habitat and maybe we can talk again.

I don't know why you all bothered to message me here. I blatantly noted that I don't care for KH on this site.

Have you messaged other staff. Like people knowledgeable on void feats and such like DT or Sera?

Except no, they're not. Read what Dragon said. If DA Digimon got theirs removed then Heartless sure as hell aren't. The nature of their existence is they're natural residents of a timeless area. Comparing that to the literal concept of time is ridiculous.

What? No. There's one. Simply going into a realm without time isn't an infinite speed feat. What, does Goku have hundreds of infinite speed feats because of World of Void? Name a single instance where the concept of time means nothing to the cast. Where they can get from A to B in an instant. I can do that with Arceus. Can you do that with a Shadow? A Big Body? A Darkside? Riku? Xehanort? Furthermore, I could've used anything. Goomba's just the most popular. I could've said Badnik, Waddle Dee, Met, Goblin, etc. And any of these having feats that dwarf the main cast, by a literal infinite amount mind you, would be written off as an outlier for any other verse so quickly that I'm surprised it's being tolerated at all.

I´ve contacted every active user that is either a supporter or knowledgeable in KH.

Anyways, I can also contact DT if this keeps at this pace.

Dragonmasterxyz said:

I don't know why you all bothered to message me here. I blatantly noted that I don't care for KH on this site.

Have you messaged other staff. Like people knowledgeable on void feats and such like DT or Sera?

Click to expand...

I was messaged despite the fact that I outright told Bob to give up his KH revisions, clearly noting that I didn't want to be involved in this and was annoyed by this. Join the club, brother.

Regarding abilities. I am not touching Concept bullshit.

You kinda have to show that Xemnas' black hole matches our standards.