- 5,336
- 1,216
Please read his profile. He is massively ftl.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
A hot man with a wool jacket and hat vs. A hot woman with pink hair and horns
- Thread starter CaptainNutpunch
- Start date
- 35
- 6
- Thread starter
- #42
...
There seems to be discrepancy between both sides in this thread, And as OP of this thread, I am going to clear them out.
First of all, speeds are equalized. Meaning that their travel speed, combat speed, reactions are equal. Of course, actions like thinking or moving your fingers are faster and more instantaneous than moving your arm up. Common sense. I don't know why people are bringing speed feats up.
Second of all, this is PRE-Dio's World, meaning he does not have Time Stop, or even flight which isn't even true, as I'm 100% sure it is just stand-jumps exaggerated by Araki's artstyle. Chariot, most who have read the manga agrees with that, and you're claiming we're all wrong. For the sake of this thread, it will be assumed that he can't fly as it isn't even in his profile. But if you really want to be that insistive about us being wrong in that regard, create a CRT to add it to his profile instead of stubbornly trying to argue it here.
Third of all, Lucy's vectors do not have High 7-A durability in her Long Horns form. They only have 9-A, with likely 8-C durability. Nothing more, nothing less. Migue79, drop that point now as it has been debunked.
No more discrepancies. I've had enough of it.
With that said, I am switching the starting distance back to what it was before. And yes, according to SBA, the arena is Central Park, NYC. However, after examining it and considering the starting distance, I have decided that I should be specific with where in Central Park they should be placed. And I have decided to place them right here (where the red dot is).
Lastly, be mindful of things like first impressions at first glance, no-knowledge for both combatants, ability activation, etc. Because I see that both sides do not take these things in mind and thus, not accurate arguments.
With all that said, let's not drive me to delete this thread.
There seems to be discrepancy between both sides in this thread, And as OP of this thread, I am going to clear them out.
First of all, speeds are equalized. Meaning that their travel speed, combat speed, reactions are equal. Of course, actions like thinking or moving your fingers are faster and more instantaneous than moving your arm up. Common sense. I don't know why people are bringing speed feats up.
Second of all, this is PRE-Dio's World, meaning he does not have Time Stop, or even flight which isn't even true, as I'm 100% sure it is just stand-jumps exaggerated by Araki's artstyle. Chariot, most who have read the manga agrees with that, and you're claiming we're all wrong. For the sake of this thread, it will be assumed that he can't fly as it isn't even in his profile. But if you really want to be that insistive about us being wrong in that regard, create a CRT to add it to his profile instead of stubbornly trying to argue it here.
Third of all, Lucy's vectors do not have High 7-A durability in her Long Horns form. They only have 9-A, with likely 8-C durability. Nothing more, nothing less. Migue79, drop that point now as it has been debunked.
No more discrepancies. I've had enough of it.
With that said, I am switching the starting distance back to what it was before. And yes, according to SBA, the arena is Central Park, NYC. However, after examining it and considering the starting distance, I have decided that I should be specific with where in Central Park they should be placed. And I have decided to place them right here (where the red dot is).
Lastly, be mindful of things like first impressions at first glance, no-knowledge for both combatants, ability activation, etc. Because I see that both sides do not take these things in mind and thus, not accurate arguments.
With all that said, let's not drive me to delete this thread.
- 14,323
- 11,345
>Lastly, be mindful of things like first impressions at first glance, no-knowledge for both combatants, ability activation, etc. Because I see that both sides do not take these things in mind and thus, not accurate arguments.
Would that really matter though? All Jotaro has to do is see the vectors to know that she may or may not be dangerous, if she actually is ain't important, he'll try to incap at the very least.
Secondly He can stll and likely would given almost every other long distance opponent he's encountered still decide to throw something. An that's as easy as getting a pin off his jacket like in strength or picking up the closest rock like in the sun. If the vectors don't got that durability and ap then the vectors can't exactly bodyblock it it.
Would that really matter though? All Jotaro has to do is see the vectors to know that she may or may not be dangerous, if she actually is ain't important, he'll try to incap at the very least.
Secondly He can stll and likely would given almost every other long distance opponent he's encountered still decide to throw something. An that's as easy as getting a pin off his jacket like in strength or picking up the closest rock like in the sun. If the vectors don't got that durability and ap then the vectors can't exactly bodyblock it it.
- 14,323
- 11,345
That Ratt was mftl too dude. And Part 4 Jotaro is stated to be weaker and slower than Part 3, any anti-feats after Part 3 doesn't effect his best. Plus Jotaro still has a ftl statement in Part 4 by Koichi.Moathon said:
- 2,538
- 2,125
Woo. And after a long day, I will now publish my argument, which I have put some effort into. So, here it goes!
Ok. I reconsidered my argument with the new information that came to light, and my argument will be done from a different perspective: looking at how the battle starts.
But I should compare what both Jotaro & Lucy are capable of first:
Jotaro & SP
+ Superior strength
+ Superior durability
+ Can't be interacted by Lucy's vectors
+ Superior intelligence
= Just as cunning
= Microscopic precisio
= Can negate durability
- Doesn't naturally go for the kill immediately
- Inferior melee range
- Inferior hax
- Inferior mobility
Lucy
+ Superior hax
+ Superior melee range
+ Naturally goes for the kill immediately
+ Superior mobility
= Just as cunning
= Microscopic precisio
= Can negate durability
- Inferior strength
- Inferior durability
- Can't interact with Star Platinum
- Inferior intelligence
It does show that this match is fairly even and given the circumstances, it can go either way. However, for this circumstance, I see Lucy taking this more often than not. Here's why:
Right off the bat when they spawn, they will look at their respective opponents. Lucy's impressions of Jotaro won't matter too much because she'll try to kill anyone no matter who they are. Jotaro, on the other hand, will see an underweight and underage girl with 'long cat ears' that is 1 whole foot shorter than him and seem like she's easy to kill (she has a petite physique). With that in mind, he's likely to consider going for incapacitation. Considering the starting position the OP specified for us, there would be no objects within his reach that are easily accessible (as it is just flat grasslands, meaning not much objects to pickup if he considered it as the trees are too far and whatever objects there are on the ground will be well hidden in the grass).
Besides, Lucy approaching for CQC is an absolute certainty considering the previous point of no objects to throw and her nature as that option is more in character for her. And when you consider this point with Jotaro's first impressions, him being oblivious to her vector's powers and the fact that he has one of the most powerful stands in the world, why would he not accept Lucy's CQC invitation (her approaching him)? He wouldn't see the need to go for the trouble of finding a projectile to OHKO someone when he can just approach and accomplish the same results but with seemingly lesser difficulty and effort (which despite not knowing he can OHKO, he will). Though, I have to acknowledge that when he approaches and he's likely to do it for the previous reasons, he will do so attentively.
But, here's something that I should've brought up before but didn't for not thinking straight: Lucy needs to activate her vectors on her own accord. If she doesn't activate them, Jotaro can't see them. The same goes for Jotaro summoning SP: he doesn't summon him, Lucy can't see him. The big factor here is that when Lucy approaches him, she won't activate her vectors yet, considering she only activates them to hurt/kill opponents in her range, throw projectiles against opponents out of her range or to defend from incoming projectiles. But none of those are true while she approaches Jotaro in this scenario. Ergo, she won't summon them yet because she has no reason to just yet.
She'll summon them the moment Jotaro is in range and, just so you know, she has a good sense of how long her own vectors are. Now, you might think that when she's exactly 11m away from Jotaro she'll summon them. But then remember, she doesn't rely on having a keen calculation sense: she relies on intuition (meaning she'll summon them when she feels that she's close enough). And also, she's cunning like him!~
All this means that she could summon her vectors at even shorter distances than 11m (though she'll still keep her distance). And considering her naturally bloodlusted nature and cunning, the probability of her summoning her vectors at shorter distances than 11m will be pretty favorable. And in case you doubt she's clever enough to do that, here we have her tricking a guard to steal his key and escape in the manga , and this was at the very beginning of the manga. I can provide more intelligence feats for Lucy if needed.
And when she does this (and it's likely she will), this will most likely cause Jotaro to stop on his track and decide to back out from CQC when he sees the vectors swarming him (considering they appear from thin air fairly quickly). Depending on the distance she summons them, two things can happen:
1. If she summons them below 10m, Jotaro tries to get away, but due to being too close (and Lucy likely getting the jump on him) still gets caught by Lucy's vectors, and then she kills him by negating durability and ripping his heart out, brains out, breaking his blood vessels, etc. He can't focus on trying to OHKO Lucy or doing anything else due to being swarmed and unable to shake off her vectors. SP can, but Jotaro can't (28 limbs vs 4 limbs)
2. If she summons them 11m or above, Jotaro successfully gets away and starts relying on his surroundings to kill Lucy, which considering he's clever enough to come up with ways, he should be able to pull something off. But he'll have troubles with Lucy's better mobility.
When you consider the previously mentioned factors, the former scenario is more likely to happen with a decisive victory for Lucy. But in the latter case (despite being unlikely, CAN happen), Jotaro has better chances of attaining victory than Lucy as he's more clever than her, but less mobile (about 55-45).
To sum up, Lucy's better starting mentality (bloodlusted nature) will allow her to make the best out of her advantages (range, hax, mobility) and common strengths (cunning and durability negation), and use them cleverly enough to kill Jotaro before he gets the chance to fully utilize his advantages and common strengths more often than not.
And with this, I cast my vote for Lucy.
I'm gonna go get me some lunch.
Ok. I reconsidered my argument with the new information that came to light, and my argument will be done from a different perspective: looking at how the battle starts.
But I should compare what both Jotaro & Lucy are capable of first:
Jotaro & SP
+ Superior strength
+ Superior durability
+ Can't be interacted by Lucy's vectors
+ Superior intelligence
= Just as cunning
= Microscopic precisio
= Can negate durability
- Doesn't naturally go for the kill immediately
- Inferior melee range
- Inferior hax
- Inferior mobility
Lucy
+ Superior hax
+ Superior melee range
+ Naturally goes for the kill immediately
+ Superior mobility
= Just as cunning
= Microscopic precisio
= Can negate durability
- Inferior strength
- Inferior durability
- Can't interact with Star Platinum
- Inferior intelligence
It does show that this match is fairly even and given the circumstances, it can go either way. However, for this circumstance, I see Lucy taking this more often than not. Here's why:
Right off the bat when they spawn, they will look at their respective opponents. Lucy's impressions of Jotaro won't matter too much because she'll try to kill anyone no matter who they are. Jotaro, on the other hand, will see an underweight and underage girl with 'long cat ears' that is 1 whole foot shorter than him and seem like she's easy to kill (she has a petite physique). With that in mind, he's likely to consider going for incapacitation. Considering the starting position the OP specified for us, there would be no objects within his reach that are easily accessible (as it is just flat grasslands, meaning not much objects to pickup if he considered it as the trees are too far and whatever objects there are on the ground will be well hidden in the grass).
Besides, Lucy approaching for CQC is an absolute certainty considering the previous point of no objects to throw and her nature as that option is more in character for her. And when you consider this point with Jotaro's first impressions, him being oblivious to her vector's powers and the fact that he has one of the most powerful stands in the world, why would he not accept Lucy's CQC invitation (her approaching him)? He wouldn't see the need to go for the trouble of finding a projectile to OHKO someone when he can just approach and accomplish the same results but with seemingly lesser difficulty and effort (which despite not knowing he can OHKO, he will). Though, I have to acknowledge that when he approaches and he's likely to do it for the previous reasons, he will do so attentively.
But, here's something that I should've brought up before but didn't for not thinking straight: Lucy needs to activate her vectors on her own accord. If she doesn't activate them, Jotaro can't see them. The same goes for Jotaro summoning SP: he doesn't summon him, Lucy can't see him. The big factor here is that when Lucy approaches him, she won't activate her vectors yet, considering she only activates them to hurt/kill opponents in her range, throw projectiles against opponents out of her range or to defend from incoming projectiles. But none of those are true while she approaches Jotaro in this scenario. Ergo, she won't summon them yet because she has no reason to just yet.
She'll summon them the moment Jotaro is in range and, just so you know, she has a good sense of how long her own vectors are. Now, you might think that when she's exactly 11m away from Jotaro she'll summon them. But then remember, she doesn't rely on having a keen calculation sense: she relies on intuition (meaning she'll summon them when she feels that she's close enough). And also, she's cunning like him!~
All this means that she could summon her vectors at even shorter distances than 11m (though she'll still keep her distance). And considering her naturally bloodlusted nature and cunning, the probability of her summoning her vectors at shorter distances than 11m will be pretty favorable. And in case you doubt she's clever enough to do that, here we have her tricking a guard to steal his key and escape in the manga , and this was at the very beginning of the manga. I can provide more intelligence feats for Lucy if needed.
And when she does this (and it's likely she will), this will most likely cause Jotaro to stop on his track and decide to back out from CQC when he sees the vectors swarming him (considering they appear from thin air fairly quickly). Depending on the distance she summons them, two things can happen:
1. If she summons them below 10m, Jotaro tries to get away, but due to being too close (and Lucy likely getting the jump on him) still gets caught by Lucy's vectors, and then she kills him by negating durability and ripping his heart out, brains out, breaking his blood vessels, etc. He can't focus on trying to OHKO Lucy or doing anything else due to being swarmed and unable to shake off her vectors. SP can, but Jotaro can't (28 limbs vs 4 limbs)
2. If she summons them 11m or above, Jotaro successfully gets away and starts relying on his surroundings to kill Lucy, which considering he's clever enough to come up with ways, he should be able to pull something off. But he'll have troubles with Lucy's better mobility.
When you consider the previously mentioned factors, the former scenario is more likely to happen with a decisive victory for Lucy. But in the latter case (despite being unlikely, CAN happen), Jotaro has better chances of attaining victory than Lucy as he's more clever than her, but less mobile (about 55-45).
To sum up, Lucy's better starting mentality (bloodlusted nature) will allow her to make the best out of her advantages (range, hax, mobility) and common strengths (cunning and durability negation), and use them cleverly enough to kill Jotaro before he gets the chance to fully utilize his advantages and common strengths more often than not.
And with this, I cast my vote for Lucy.
- 35
- 6
- Thread starter
- #47
0 for hot man 1 for hot woman
- 14,323
- 11,345
Fo **** sakes, my PC shut off after typing like five paragraphs. Im not doing it again so youre gonna have to deal with a simplified rebutal.
>Right off the bat when they spawn, they will look at their respective opponents. Lucy's impressions of Jotaro won't matter too much because she'll try to kill anyone no matter who they are. Jotaro, on the other hand, will see an underweight and underage girl with 'long cat ears' that is 1 whole foot shorter than him and seem like she's easy to kill (she has a petite physique). With that in mind, he's likely to consider going for incapacitation. Considering the starting position the OP specified for us, there would be no objects within his reach that are easily accessible (as it is just flat grasslands, meaning not much objects to pickup if he considered it as the trees are too far and whatever objects there are on the ground will be well hidden in the grass).
First off, don't try and exclaim how a character would act if you aren't overtly familiar with the verse. Because I can tell. SBA dictates Jotaro knows that she's his opponent and that she wants him dead, that alone is enough, what she ooks like doesn't matter, especially when Jotaro has maimed other girls that are thin and over a foot shorter than him, litterally wont matter. It doesn't matter if he goes for incap or killing to start with (because when he incaps it's more like crippled for life). Starting position doesn't change anything I said, seeing as that was what I was debating from the start (Central Park), no objects in range? Nice try but there's plenty, he can take a button off his jacket and use it like a bullet to the head (did it before) or pick up a rock off the ground of which there are many, or, ya know, rip out a chunk of the earth and fastball it, of which there's earth all around him.
Did you actually just try and say he wouldn't be able to see things in the grass', when one of his main powers litterally is superhuman eyesight better than any machine and computer and ultra kinetic vision. If there's so much as a microscopic pebble SP would be able to see it within the grass.
Besides, Lucy approaching for CQC is an absolute certainty considering the previous point of no objects to throw and her nature as that option is more in character for her. And when you consider this point with Jotaro's first impressions, him being oblivious to her vector's powers and the fact that he has one of the most powerful stands in the world, why would he not accept Lucy's CQC invitation (her approaching him)? He wouldn't see the need to go for the trouble of finding a projectile to OHKO someone when he can just approach and accomplish the same results but with seemingly lesser difficulty and effort (which despite not knowing he can OHKO, he will). Though, I have to acknowledge that when he approaches and he's likely to do it for the previous reasons, he will do so attentively.
Once again wrong there, his first assumption would be that she's a Stand User, maybe even a vampire given her appearance, and that right there throws everything out the window. And you just explained why Jotaro wouldn't allow that to happen in essense. He ain't stupid, in fact he's stupidly smart and analyctic. When Lucy starts to approach him he'd wonder why, if she's approaching me she must have a reason to do so meaning she must think that if she gets close enough she can beat me. And I don't know what her powers are, I can't be to careful here, if she's coming to me that must mean she has a trick or a way to win if I get within her range and as I don't know her power or even her range or how it works I should stay as far from her as I possibly can till I know what her power is and it's mechanics. Lucy approaching is a bad idea, if Lucy tried to ru or make distance initially he'd assume the opposite and that she can't be that good up close and try to approach, but if Lucy approaches him? Switch his line of thinking.
Him having a strong Stand means litterally nothing and ain't gonna effect how he assess the situation, he's very well aware to not ever underestimate an opponent going off appearances or his own power. He's encountered less assuming opponents than Lucy and knw that anyone can be a threat, even the most fragile, weakest looking unassuming opponents.
>But, here's something that I should've brought up before but didn't for not thinking straight: Lucy needs to activate her vectors on her own accord. If she doesn't activate them, Jotaro can't see them. The same goes for Jotaro summoning SP: he doesn't summon him, Lucy can't see him. The big factor here is that when Lucy approaches him, she won't activate her vectors yet, considering she only activates them to hurt/kill opponents in her range, throw projectiles against opponents out of her range or to defend from incoming projectiles. But none of those are true while she approaches Jotaro in this scenario. Ergo, she won't summon them yet because she has no reason to just yet.
Her activating them off the start ain't gonna change his line of thinking, he knows not all Stands have a visual representation, him not seeing them right away won't effect his thinking. And Lucy can't see SP even if it's summoned, it has invisibility for all but the most spiritually aware.
And that's a huge oh no for Lucy, if she doesn't use her vectors till she's as close as she deems ok that's bad, it means she may not react to the projectile that's coming her way, and if she does, bam, he knows she has range advantage and has more arms than he does. Guranteed range battle now. Or try and retaliate against the invisible punch ghost that's floating around Jotaro and can instantly manifest anywhere within it's effective range which is bad, why? Because if she enters it's range before deciding that now is a good to kill (that's assuming she even gets close to him after he assess the situation and leads with a rock or button) she's actually screwed, SP won't wait for her unless he needs to.
She'll summon them the moment Jotaro is in range and, just so you know, she has a good sense of how long her own vectors are. Now, you might think that when she's exactly 11m away from Jotaro she'll summon them. But then remember, she doesn't rely on having a keen calculation sense: she relies on intuition (meaning she'll summon them when she feels that she's close enough). And also, she's cunning like him!~
>All this means that she could summon her vectors at even shorter distances than 11m (though she'll still keep her distance). And considering her naturally bloodlusted nature and cunning, the probability of her summoning her vectors at shorter distances than 11m will be pretty favorable. And in case you doubt she's clever enough to do that, here we have her tricking a guard to steal his key and escape in the manga , and this was at the very beginning of the manga. I can provide more intelligence feats for Lucy if needed.
You're actually giving reasons that are detrimental to Lucy, not a benefit. Especially the bloodlusted nature (he's good at picking up hostile intent, most Stand Users are) She doesn't know SP's maximum range or that it exists, only that Jotaro is her enemy and that he will kill if need be, if her first response is to approach (bad as explaind above) but to maybe accidentally get to close, there's a 50/50 that even if she does get up to him she loses due to her own mistakes that she decided to do, if she accidentaly somehow manages to get close to him and within it's range, she loses. She ain't reacting to what she doesnt know exists. She ain't tricking Jotaro, ever, not in this situation. Her being smart ain't much, outsmarting litteral genius is commonplace in JoJo. Not that that matters in a battle like this.
>And when she does this (and it's likely she will), this will most likely cause Jotaro to stop on his track and decide to back out from CQC when he sees the vectors swarming him (considering they appear from thin air fairly quickly). Depending on the distance she summons them, two things can happen:
He'll back out of CQC the moment he sees a presumed hostile Stand User trying to get up close.
The vectors will also come out much sooner (he's probably gonna throw something, it's a safe option, he's out of range (meaning he'd throw something like litterally every other time he was outta range of an enemy, why he would doesn't even matter much because of how often he does that ), it'd force his opponent to react, dodge, block, attack and that would lead to him seeing some of the power most likely, thus it's an optimal decision given the situation. Anf in this case he's throws something, be it a button a rock or even a stick like a javelin and Lucy is forced to summon vectors to dodge or try and block (and then fail due to AP difference). Jotaro now knows about vectors and his disadvantages.
>1. If she summons them below 10m, Jotaro tries to get away, but due to being too close (and Lucy likely getting the jump on him) still gets caught by Lucy's vectors, and then she kills him by negating durability and ripping his heart out, brains out, breaking his blood vessels, etc. He can't focus on trying to OHKO Lucy or doing anything else due to being swarmed and unable to shake off her vectors. SP can, but Jotaro can't (28 limbs vs 4 limbs)
Basically same as what's already been stated. No point repeating. Not that this effects the match in anyway but SP can do that too, although he doesn't tend to do that in battle. (Actually thinking on it? What's stopping Star Platinum from working against the vectors when they try to do that if given a chance, SP can and has shown to be able to physically interact with Jotaro's body, like his heart, he can phase and he works at a scale above any machine of his time period).
>2. If she summons them 11m or above, Jotaro successfully gets away and starts relying on his surroundings to kill Lucy, which considering he's clever enough to come up with ways, he should be able to pull something off. But he'll have troubles with Lucy's better mobility.
She's going to have to summon them at a distance as Jotaro, like it or not, is going to be throwing something, even if that something is like a pin or a button. You say better mobility but either Jotaro can fly, or he has like the exact same mobility via Stand jumps and Stand propulsion. It's either the same or he's better.
>When you consider the previously mentioned factors, the former scenario is more likely to happen with a decisive victory for Lucy. But in the latter case (despite being unlikely, CAN happen), Jotaro has better chances of attaining victory than Lucy as he's more clever than her, but less mobile (about 55-45).
Yes and because of those factors you actually argued a good reason why Lucy would lose. And given how much yu pushed it, there ain't no backpedaling. Hell, there's even a chance he'd let Lucy think she got him (if she ever got close enough and landed a hit) and play dead or only to sneak attack after she dropped her guard.
>To sum up, Lucy's better starting mentality (bloodlusted nature) will allow her to make the best out of her advantages (range, hax, mobility) and common strengths (cunning and durability negation), and use them cleverly enough to kill Jotaro before he gets the chance to fully utilize his advantages and common strengths more often than not.
Her starting mentality is exactly why she loses, the moment she begins to approach he won't, given he's gonna lead with fastballing litterally anything he can or simply backing off then doing it when he can or both for that matter, that's bad for her, like, really bad, especially as he starts with range advantage via projectiles (well both got that actually, difference being his are lethal and must be dodged, if blocked that's ohko) and his assumption is she's a stand user thus dont engage unless you know you can.
I vote Jotaro, Lucy approaching him first and bloodlust is (especially on her scale) will tell him to back off and to stay away till he has information. Plus he leads with something that'dforce Lucy to show her vectors or she's gone, or, at the very least. Knocked out cold and comatosed. Sorry for the way I responded but I did so so what I was responding to was known on top of the fact my bigger more in depth reply got ****** because my pc was like cool lets overheat and shut off.
>Right off the bat when they spawn, they will look at their respective opponents. Lucy's impressions of Jotaro won't matter too much because she'll try to kill anyone no matter who they are. Jotaro, on the other hand, will see an underweight and underage girl with 'long cat ears' that is 1 whole foot shorter than him and seem like she's easy to kill (she has a petite physique). With that in mind, he's likely to consider going for incapacitation. Considering the starting position the OP specified for us, there would be no objects within his reach that are easily accessible (as it is just flat grasslands, meaning not much objects to pickup if he considered it as the trees are too far and whatever objects there are on the ground will be well hidden in the grass).
First off, don't try and exclaim how a character would act if you aren't overtly familiar with the verse. Because I can tell. SBA dictates Jotaro knows that she's his opponent and that she wants him dead, that alone is enough, what she ooks like doesn't matter, especially when Jotaro has maimed other girls that are thin and over a foot shorter than him, litterally wont matter. It doesn't matter if he goes for incap or killing to start with (because when he incaps it's more like crippled for life). Starting position doesn't change anything I said, seeing as that was what I was debating from the start (Central Park), no objects in range? Nice try but there's plenty, he can take a button off his jacket and use it like a bullet to the head (did it before) or pick up a rock off the ground of which there are many, or, ya know, rip out a chunk of the earth and fastball it, of which there's earth all around him.
Did you actually just try and say he wouldn't be able to see things in the grass', when one of his main powers litterally is superhuman eyesight better than any machine and computer and ultra kinetic vision. If there's so much as a microscopic pebble SP would be able to see it within the grass.
Besides, Lucy approaching for CQC is an absolute certainty considering the previous point of no objects to throw and her nature as that option is more in character for her. And when you consider this point with Jotaro's first impressions, him being oblivious to her vector's powers and the fact that he has one of the most powerful stands in the world, why would he not accept Lucy's CQC invitation (her approaching him)? He wouldn't see the need to go for the trouble of finding a projectile to OHKO someone when he can just approach and accomplish the same results but with seemingly lesser difficulty and effort (which despite not knowing he can OHKO, he will). Though, I have to acknowledge that when he approaches and he's likely to do it for the previous reasons, he will do so attentively.
Once again wrong there, his first assumption would be that she's a Stand User, maybe even a vampire given her appearance, and that right there throws everything out the window. And you just explained why Jotaro wouldn't allow that to happen in essense. He ain't stupid, in fact he's stupidly smart and analyctic. When Lucy starts to approach him he'd wonder why, if she's approaching me she must have a reason to do so meaning she must think that if she gets close enough she can beat me. And I don't know what her powers are, I can't be to careful here, if she's coming to me that must mean she has a trick or a way to win if I get within her range and as I don't know her power or even her range or how it works I should stay as far from her as I possibly can till I know what her power is and it's mechanics. Lucy approaching is a bad idea, if Lucy tried to ru or make distance initially he'd assume the opposite and that she can't be that good up close and try to approach, but if Lucy approaches him? Switch his line of thinking.
Him having a strong Stand means litterally nothing and ain't gonna effect how he assess the situation, he's very well aware to not ever underestimate an opponent going off appearances or his own power. He's encountered less assuming opponents than Lucy and knw that anyone can be a threat, even the most fragile, weakest looking unassuming opponents.
>But, here's something that I should've brought up before but didn't for not thinking straight: Lucy needs to activate her vectors on her own accord. If she doesn't activate them, Jotaro can't see them. The same goes for Jotaro summoning SP: he doesn't summon him, Lucy can't see him. The big factor here is that when Lucy approaches him, she won't activate her vectors yet, considering she only activates them to hurt/kill opponents in her range, throw projectiles against opponents out of her range or to defend from incoming projectiles. But none of those are true while she approaches Jotaro in this scenario. Ergo, she won't summon them yet because she has no reason to just yet.
Her activating them off the start ain't gonna change his line of thinking, he knows not all Stands have a visual representation, him not seeing them right away won't effect his thinking. And Lucy can't see SP even if it's summoned, it has invisibility for all but the most spiritually aware.
And that's a huge oh no for Lucy, if she doesn't use her vectors till she's as close as she deems ok that's bad, it means she may not react to the projectile that's coming her way, and if she does, bam, he knows she has range advantage and has more arms than he does. Guranteed range battle now. Or try and retaliate against the invisible punch ghost that's floating around Jotaro and can instantly manifest anywhere within it's effective range which is bad, why? Because if she enters it's range before deciding that now is a good to kill (that's assuming she even gets close to him after he assess the situation and leads with a rock or button) she's actually screwed, SP won't wait for her unless he needs to.
She'll summon them the moment Jotaro is in range and, just so you know, she has a good sense of how long her own vectors are. Now, you might think that when she's exactly 11m away from Jotaro she'll summon them. But then remember, she doesn't rely on having a keen calculation sense: she relies on intuition (meaning she'll summon them when she feels that she's close enough). And also, she's cunning like him!~
>All this means that she could summon her vectors at even shorter distances than 11m (though she'll still keep her distance). And considering her naturally bloodlusted nature and cunning, the probability of her summoning her vectors at shorter distances than 11m will be pretty favorable. And in case you doubt she's clever enough to do that, here we have her tricking a guard to steal his key and escape in the manga , and this was at the very beginning of the manga. I can provide more intelligence feats for Lucy if needed.
You're actually giving reasons that are detrimental to Lucy, not a benefit. Especially the bloodlusted nature (he's good at picking up hostile intent, most Stand Users are) She doesn't know SP's maximum range or that it exists, only that Jotaro is her enemy and that he will kill if need be, if her first response is to approach (bad as explaind above) but to maybe accidentally get to close, there's a 50/50 that even if she does get up to him she loses due to her own mistakes that she decided to do, if she accidentaly somehow manages to get close to him and within it's range, she loses. She ain't reacting to what she doesnt know exists. She ain't tricking Jotaro, ever, not in this situation. Her being smart ain't much, outsmarting litteral genius is commonplace in JoJo. Not that that matters in a battle like this.
>And when she does this (and it's likely she will), this will most likely cause Jotaro to stop on his track and decide to back out from CQC when he sees the vectors swarming him (considering they appear from thin air fairly quickly). Depending on the distance she summons them, two things can happen:
He'll back out of CQC the moment he sees a presumed hostile Stand User trying to get up close.
The vectors will also come out much sooner (he's probably gonna throw something, it's a safe option, he's out of range (meaning he'd throw something like litterally every other time he was outta range of an enemy, why he would doesn't even matter much because of how often he does that ), it'd force his opponent to react, dodge, block, attack and that would lead to him seeing some of the power most likely, thus it's an optimal decision given the situation. Anf in this case he's throws something, be it a button a rock or even a stick like a javelin and Lucy is forced to summon vectors to dodge or try and block (and then fail due to AP difference). Jotaro now knows about vectors and his disadvantages.
>1. If she summons them below 10m, Jotaro tries to get away, but due to being too close (and Lucy likely getting the jump on him) still gets caught by Lucy's vectors, and then she kills him by negating durability and ripping his heart out, brains out, breaking his blood vessels, etc. He can't focus on trying to OHKO Lucy or doing anything else due to being swarmed and unable to shake off her vectors. SP can, but Jotaro can't (28 limbs vs 4 limbs)
Basically same as what's already been stated. No point repeating. Not that this effects the match in anyway but SP can do that too, although he doesn't tend to do that in battle. (Actually thinking on it? What's stopping Star Platinum from working against the vectors when they try to do that if given a chance, SP can and has shown to be able to physically interact with Jotaro's body, like his heart, he can phase and he works at a scale above any machine of his time period).
>2. If she summons them 11m or above, Jotaro successfully gets away and starts relying on his surroundings to kill Lucy, which considering he's clever enough to come up with ways, he should be able to pull something off. But he'll have troubles with Lucy's better mobility.
She's going to have to summon them at a distance as Jotaro, like it or not, is going to be throwing something, even if that something is like a pin or a button. You say better mobility but either Jotaro can fly, or he has like the exact same mobility via Stand jumps and Stand propulsion. It's either the same or he's better.
>When you consider the previously mentioned factors, the former scenario is more likely to happen with a decisive victory for Lucy. But in the latter case (despite being unlikely, CAN happen), Jotaro has better chances of attaining victory than Lucy as he's more clever than her, but less mobile (about 55-45).
Yes and because of those factors you actually argued a good reason why Lucy would lose. And given how much yu pushed it, there ain't no backpedaling. Hell, there's even a chance he'd let Lucy think she got him (if she ever got close enough and landed a hit) and play dead or only to sneak attack after she dropped her guard.
>To sum up, Lucy's better starting mentality (bloodlusted nature) will allow her to make the best out of her advantages (range, hax, mobility) and common strengths (cunning and durability negation), and use them cleverly enough to kill Jotaro before he gets the chance to fully utilize his advantages and common strengths more often than not.
Her starting mentality is exactly why she loses, the moment she begins to approach he won't, given he's gonna lead with fastballing litterally anything he can or simply backing off then doing it when he can or both for that matter, that's bad for her, like, really bad, especially as he starts with range advantage via projectiles (well both got that actually, difference being his are lethal and must be dodged, if blocked that's ohko) and his assumption is she's a stand user thus dont engage unless you know you can.
I vote Jotaro, Lucy approaching him first and bloodlust is (especially on her scale) will tell him to back off and to stay away till he has information. Plus he leads with something that'dforce Lucy to show her vectors or she's gone, or, at the very least. Knocked out cold and comatosed. Sorry for the way I responded but I did so so what I was responding to was known on top of the fact my bigger more in depth reply got ****** because my pc was like cool lets overheat and shut off.
- 14,323
- 11,345
Oh yeah, and Jotaro panicing doesn't mean anything. When that happens, SP and it's self preservation kicks in. If Jotaro panics SP won't and will react accordingly.
He can even do so when Jotaro is out cold and his heart is stopped.
He can even do so when Jotaro is out cold and his heart is stopped.
- 15,643
- 11,961
That's not how it works, Jotaro basically never panics, but if he were to, SP is completely under his control, if he panics, so does it. He wasn't out cold when his heart was stopped, we even hear his thoughts.
- 14,323
- 11,345
Except he faints and doesn't finish that thought. Plus self preservation when Jotaro ain't in control is like, the first thing we learn of it. And that it has it's own personality.
- 15,643
- 11,961
the latter is fair, not sure if i remember the former the same. still, jotaro panicking shouldn't be a factor in the fight.
- 14,323
- 11,345
I mean the former is fair, he faints and his eyes go white upon saying that, Platinum has to restart his heart before Jotaro regained conscious. And I say that with certainty, I just double checked in case I was wrong. But doesn't matter, it won't happen, I was only saying that if it did, because migu said it would. He's seen far worse and stayed calmed. He only lost his shit once, and it was in Part 6, and it involved Jolyne.
- 118
- 20
Late reply but since Jotaro doesn't lead with TS, nor had the mobility advantage, then I'd unfortunately have to give this one to Lucy for the superior AP, Range and Hax. She can just trap Jotaro with her vectors and slice him into bits since he can't get away. Jotaro may be able to break out of her hold but he can't break out of 10+ arms holding him down. He loses.
- 2,538
- 2,125
> First off, don't try and exclaim how a character would act if you aren't overtly familiar with the verse. Because I can tell. SBA dictates Jotaro knows that she's his opponent and that she wants him dead, that alone is enough, what she ooks like doesn't matter, especially when Jotaro has maimed other girls that are thin and over a foot shorter than him, litterally wont matter. It doesn't matter if he goes for incap or killing to start with (because when he incaps it's more like crippled for life). Starting position doesn't change anything I said, seeing as that was what I was debating from the start (Central Park), no objects in range? Nice try but there's plenty, he can take a button off his jacket and use it like a bullet to the head (did it before) or pick up a rock off the ground of which there are many, or, ya know, rip out a chunk of the earth and fastball it, of which there's earth all around him.
I have been doing a bit of research into some of the examples you gave earlier. When has he STARTED OFF his fights unprepared with him doing ANY of that, and to women he doesn't know if they're evil or not no less? Just because we see him doing at certain points in fights with his opponents doesn't mean he starts off with that. And just because you have the intelligence to do something theoretically possible, doesn't mean you just betray your typical in-character starting strategies. The OP didn't bloodlust them.
Also, no, that's not how SBA works. You're misusing it, as what you're implying with him knowing his opponent's going to kill him counts as prior knowledge. SBA states that they cannot have prior knowledge of their opponents (no knowledge on their strats, their appearance, their INTENTIONS, etc.). Period. And with the whole not seeing things in grass, I was referring to Jotaro, not Star Platinum.
And it does matter that Jotaro goes for incapacitation. You just missed my point: it just means that Jotaro won't be making the most of his advantages to take the victory before Lucy does (as it takes less effort to incapacitate someone than to kill someone). I even acknowledged that despite not knowing he can OHKO, he'll do it anyways (regardless of the intention).
Also, you're saying the changes don't matter??? You can't be serious: every theoretical example of a projectile you just listed he didn't do it while STARTING a fight unprepared, just SCREAMS OOC behavior or just ignores the starting position that was given. You really expect to find rocks in plain grass that is maintained everyday for people to walk on, play on and interact on? Did you even look at the picture he sent and see where he placed the red dot?
> Once again wrong there, his first assumption would be that she's a Stand User, maybe even a vampire given her appearance, and that right there throws everything out the window. And you just explained why Jotaro wouldn't allow that to happen in essense. He ain't stupid, in fact he's stupidly smart and analyctic. When Lucy starts to approach him he'd wonder why, if she's approaching me she must have a reason to do so meaning she must think that if she gets close enough she can beat me. And I don't know what her powers are, I can't be to careful here, if she's coming to me that must mean she has a trick or a way to win if I get within her range and as I don't know her power or even her range or how it works I should stay as far from her as I possibly can till I know what her power is and it's mechanics. Lucy approaching is a bad idea, if Lucy tried to ru or make distance initially he'd assume the opposite and that she can't be that good up close and try to approach, but if Lucy approaches him? Switch his line of thinking
Lucy looks NOTHING like a vampire. I don't know where you're getting that from. The horns? That isn't even a common characteristic for JoJo vampires. Skin? The artwork in this wiki (with the exception of the main picture at the top) exaggerates the lightness of her skin color: she's not pale like other stereotypical vampires. Her skin color is fair. And if you say because her eyes are red, just know that her eyes are green in the manga (the pictures in her profile are misleading). And I even looked at what JoJo vampire look like. No physical comparison between the two. But you said maybe, so maybe I'm coming off as too harsh...
By your 'Stand User' logic, wouldn't he just assume that she's a Close Range Power Stand User too? You know, because of said type of stand's typical POOR RANGE? Not far-fetched to assume considering that's a weakness he should be able to notice considering how knowledgeable he is about stands. And considering she's approaching, it'll give a false implication that she doesn't have much range. And with that in mind, why would he be running away from a Stand User with almost IDENTICAL abilities as his stand (enormous strength, speed, durability and precision)? You seem to be overthinking things here a bit.
> And that's a huge oh no for Lucy, if she doesn't use her vectors till she's as close as she deems ok that's bad, it means she may not react to the projectile that's coming her way, and if she does, bam, he knows she has range advantage and has more arms than he does. Guranteed range battle now. Or try and retaliate against the invisible punch ghost that's floating around Jotaro and can instantly manifest anywhere within it's effective range which is bad, why? Because if she enters it's range before deciding that now is a good to kill (that's assuming she even gets close to him after he assess the situation and leads with a rock or button) she's actually screwed, SP won't wait for her unless he needs to.
Again, that's assuming he leads with him throwing projectiles which as far as your given examples go, doesn't prove that... All your examples prove is that he throws objects at people after he finds out their abilities with both observation and prior knowledge, and finds out he must use said projectiles. Jotaro gets none of that in this situation. And are you really assuming that Lucy's dumb to not dodge? She literally has +11m to react to anything he throws... And did you seriously ignore my point of her being able to visualize and predict how close she is due to knowing how far her vectors reach? This intuition of hers has made her pull off rather impressive feats later on in the manga. So, no. These assumption are wrong. And I was talking about her own range. Not Jotaro's...
Why would she even betray her own IC behavior of keeping her distance from the opponent's body while keeping herself in range to hit them with her vectors? She is literally 100% used to fighting ranged battles and will not go anywhere close to her opponents only after she has defeated them (but even this CIS from her Base form she got over, so she ain't getting close to anybody). And Star Platinum cannot protect Jotaro from 28 vectors coming from ALL directions with speeds equalized: He literally occupies a sector of his total area, not the entire area. And with that he can only protect Jotaro from said area at a time. Not like it matters considering he can only deal with 1-2 vectors at a time while the rest just phase through him towards Jotaro, leaving to the same outcome I stated earlier.
>You're actually giving reasons that are detrimental to Lucy, not a benefit. Especially the bloodlusted nature (he's good at picking up hostile intent, most Stand Users are) She doesn't know SP's maximum range or that it exists, only that Jotaro is her enemy and that he will kill if need be, if her first response is to approach (bad as explaind above) but to maybe accidentally get to close, there's a 50/50 that even if she does get up to him she loses due to her own mistakes that she decided to do, if she accidentaly somehow manages to get close to him and within it's range, she loses. She ain't reacting to what she doesnt know exists. She ain't tricking Jotaro, ever, not in this situation. Her being smart ain't much, outsmarting litteral genius is commonplace in JoJo. Not that that matters in a battle like this.
Oooooh, that's why you thought she would betray her IC behavior.
Hmm... I re-examined the definition of bloodlust, and I can say that that wasn't the correct term to describe her behavior. So, **** me for making that mistake (>_<)' Considering she's completely apathetic to the idea of killing her opponents and that she isn't reckless means that she really isn't bloodlusted. What I meant to say was that she doesn't **** around and likes to go for the kill ASAP.
And don't forget my previous point about her liking to maintain herself at a distance while the vectors do the work, and that they have a range of +11m vs. SP's 2m range.
And it's not her about being a genius, it's about her using her tools that she has better than Jotaro to end the fight before he gets the chance to do so...
Aaaaand you're forgetting that the OP said that Lucy can see SP. So, your argument kind of falls apart there (unless you mean that he'll summon her exactly when she's in his range). Lol
>The vectors will also come out much sooner (he's probably gonna throw something, it's a safe option, he's out of range (meaning he'd throw something like litterally every other time he was outta range of an enemy, why he would doesn't even matter much because of how often he does that ), it'd force his opponent to react, dodge, block, attack and that would lead to him seeing some of the power most likely, thus it's an optimal decision given the situation. Anf in this case he's throws something, be it a button a rock or even a stick like a javelin and Lucy is forced to summon vectors to dodge or try and block (and then fail due to AP difference). Jotaro now knows about vectors and his disadvantages.
Ehhhh... Same points as before for me. He's not gonna have anything in-character to throw at Lucy, causing him to run away from her reach and THEN get something to throw at her :/
But yes, he will learn about the disadvantages. But my point was whether or not Lucy will allow him to use this information to capitalize, which I argue NO FRA.
And considering that she's gonna run at him while the vectors expand, the vectors will be approaching Jotaro at 2 times the speed she runs (which using speed equalization should be equal to his own running speed). So, it would be illogical for him to consider throwing an object to throw at these situations.
> Basically same as what's already been stated. No point repeating. Not that this effects the match in anyway but SP can do that too, although he doesn't tend to do that in battle. (Actually thinking on it? What's stopping Star Platinum from working against the vectors when they try to do that if given a chance, SP can and has shown to be able to physically interact with Jotaro's body, like his heart, he can phase and he works at a scale above any machine of his time period).
The fact that he can't stop 28 vectors all trying to yank his insides outside of his body and trying to cut off his blood vessels is what's stopping SP from doing what you suggested...
> She's going to have to summon them at a distance as Jotaro, like it or not, is going to be throwing something, even if that something is like a pin or a button. You say better mobility but either Jotaro can fly, or he has like the exact same mobility via Stand jumps and Stand propulsion. It's either the same or he's better.
But she can levitate? Something he can't really do if he can't fly? Also, don't bring up flight when the OP said not to...
And honestly, you really aren't convincing anyone by bringing a point that isn't supported by the circumstances the OP chose. For the last time, he isn't throwing anything significant. In fact, he tries to do that at this time, he will just leave himself open to her 28 vectors to be destroyed, which is something Jotaro would definitely try to not let happen. Like I said, he would try to get away from that!
>Yes and because of those factors you actually argued a good reason why Lucy would lose. And given how much yu pushed it, there ain't no backpedaling. Hell, there's even a chance he'd let Lucy think she got him (if she ever got close enough and landed a hit) and play dead or only to sneak attack after she dropped her guard.
Except I didn't and it's just you missing the points of my arguments, misusing examples of tactics as something he leads with, twisting SBA, not really heeding the OP's instructions, and... me being a dumbass and misusing a word....
> Her starting mentality is exactly why she loses, the moment she begins to approach he won't, given he's gonna lead with fastballing litterally anything he can or simply backing off then doing it when he can or both for that matter, that's bad for her, like, really bad, especially as he starts with range advantage via projectiles (well both got that actually, difference being his are lethal and must be dodged, if blocked that's ohko) and his assumption is she's a stand user thus dont engage unless you know you can.
No. It is why she WINS if you didn't do what you did previously mentioned. And for the last time, he WON'T lead with throwing projectiles. He didn't lead with that against none of the examples you first mentioned. I searched up their battles and he starts off with CQC. It is after he figures out their abilities, or he finds himself in a tight pinch that he resorts to using projectiles. The button is situational, and Lucy just won't give him the chance to throw it anywa.
> Oh yeah, and Jotaro panicing doesn't mean anything. When that happens, SP and it's self preservation kicks in. If Jotaro panics SP won't and will react accordingly. He can even do so when Jotaro is out cold and his heart is stopped.
I never said he would panic... What...? I said he would jump out of there considering it is the LOGICAL THING TO DO in this situation, and THEN use his surroundings as projectiles.
And cool. Let's see if that self-preservation can prevent from having his entrails completely removed from his body and his insides severly damaged.
And with that, I go to bed.
I have been doing a bit of research into some of the examples you gave earlier. When has he STARTED OFF his fights unprepared with him doing ANY of that, and to women he doesn't know if they're evil or not no less? Just because we see him doing at certain points in fights with his opponents doesn't mean he starts off with that. And just because you have the intelligence to do something theoretically possible, doesn't mean you just betray your typical in-character starting strategies. The OP didn't bloodlust them.
Also, no, that's not how SBA works. You're misusing it, as what you're implying with him knowing his opponent's going to kill him counts as prior knowledge. SBA states that they cannot have prior knowledge of their opponents (no knowledge on their strats, their appearance, their INTENTIONS, etc.). Period. And with the whole not seeing things in grass, I was referring to Jotaro, not Star Platinum.
And it does matter that Jotaro goes for incapacitation. You just missed my point: it just means that Jotaro won't be making the most of his advantages to take the victory before Lucy does (as it takes less effort to incapacitate someone than to kill someone). I even acknowledged that despite not knowing he can OHKO, he'll do it anyways (regardless of the intention).
Also, you're saying the changes don't matter??? You can't be serious: every theoretical example of a projectile you just listed he didn't do it while STARTING a fight unprepared, just SCREAMS OOC behavior or just ignores the starting position that was given. You really expect to find rocks in plain grass that is maintained everyday for people to walk on, play on and interact on? Did you even look at the picture he sent and see where he placed the red dot?
> Once again wrong there, his first assumption would be that she's a Stand User, maybe even a vampire given her appearance, and that right there throws everything out the window. And you just explained why Jotaro wouldn't allow that to happen in essense. He ain't stupid, in fact he's stupidly smart and analyctic. When Lucy starts to approach him he'd wonder why, if she's approaching me she must have a reason to do so meaning she must think that if she gets close enough she can beat me. And I don't know what her powers are, I can't be to careful here, if she's coming to me that must mean she has a trick or a way to win if I get within her range and as I don't know her power or even her range or how it works I should stay as far from her as I possibly can till I know what her power is and it's mechanics. Lucy approaching is a bad idea, if Lucy tried to ru or make distance initially he'd assume the opposite and that she can't be that good up close and try to approach, but if Lucy approaches him? Switch his line of thinking
Lucy looks NOTHING like a vampire. I don't know where you're getting that from. The horns? That isn't even a common characteristic for JoJo vampires. Skin? The artwork in this wiki (with the exception of the main picture at the top) exaggerates the lightness of her skin color: she's not pale like other stereotypical vampires. Her skin color is fair. And if you say because her eyes are red, just know that her eyes are green in the manga (the pictures in her profile are misleading). And I even looked at what JoJo vampire look like. No physical comparison between the two. But you said maybe, so maybe I'm coming off as too harsh...
By your 'Stand User' logic, wouldn't he just assume that she's a Close Range Power Stand User too? You know, because of said type of stand's typical POOR RANGE? Not far-fetched to assume considering that's a weakness he should be able to notice considering how knowledgeable he is about stands. And considering she's approaching, it'll give a false implication that she doesn't have much range. And with that in mind, why would he be running away from a Stand User with almost IDENTICAL abilities as his stand (enormous strength, speed, durability and precision)? You seem to be overthinking things here a bit.
> And that's a huge oh no for Lucy, if she doesn't use her vectors till she's as close as she deems ok that's bad, it means she may not react to the projectile that's coming her way, and if she does, bam, he knows she has range advantage and has more arms than he does. Guranteed range battle now. Or try and retaliate against the invisible punch ghost that's floating around Jotaro and can instantly manifest anywhere within it's effective range which is bad, why? Because if she enters it's range before deciding that now is a good to kill (that's assuming she even gets close to him after he assess the situation and leads with a rock or button) she's actually screwed, SP won't wait for her unless he needs to.
Again, that's assuming he leads with him throwing projectiles which as far as your given examples go, doesn't prove that... All your examples prove is that he throws objects at people after he finds out their abilities with both observation and prior knowledge, and finds out he must use said projectiles. Jotaro gets none of that in this situation. And are you really assuming that Lucy's dumb to not dodge? She literally has +11m to react to anything he throws... And did you seriously ignore my point of her being able to visualize and predict how close she is due to knowing how far her vectors reach? This intuition of hers has made her pull off rather impressive feats later on in the manga. So, no. These assumption are wrong. And I was talking about her own range. Not Jotaro's...
Why would she even betray her own IC behavior of keeping her distance from the opponent's body while keeping herself in range to hit them with her vectors? She is literally 100% used to fighting ranged battles and will not go anywhere close to her opponents only after she has defeated them (but even this CIS from her Base form she got over, so she ain't getting close to anybody). And Star Platinum cannot protect Jotaro from 28 vectors coming from ALL directions with speeds equalized: He literally occupies a sector of his total area, not the entire area. And with that he can only protect Jotaro from said area at a time. Not like it matters considering he can only deal with 1-2 vectors at a time while the rest just phase through him towards Jotaro, leaving to the same outcome I stated earlier.
>You're actually giving reasons that are detrimental to Lucy, not a benefit. Especially the bloodlusted nature (he's good at picking up hostile intent, most Stand Users are) She doesn't know SP's maximum range or that it exists, only that Jotaro is her enemy and that he will kill if need be, if her first response is to approach (bad as explaind above) but to maybe accidentally get to close, there's a 50/50 that even if she does get up to him she loses due to her own mistakes that she decided to do, if she accidentaly somehow manages to get close to him and within it's range, she loses. She ain't reacting to what she doesnt know exists. She ain't tricking Jotaro, ever, not in this situation. Her being smart ain't much, outsmarting litteral genius is commonplace in JoJo. Not that that matters in a battle like this.
Oooooh, that's why you thought she would betray her IC behavior.
Hmm... I re-examined the definition of bloodlust, and I can say that that wasn't the correct term to describe her behavior. So, **** me for making that mistake (>_<)' Considering she's completely apathetic to the idea of killing her opponents and that she isn't reckless means that she really isn't bloodlusted. What I meant to say was that she doesn't **** around and likes to go for the kill ASAP.
And don't forget my previous point about her liking to maintain herself at a distance while the vectors do the work, and that they have a range of +11m vs. SP's 2m range.
And it's not her about being a genius, it's about her using her tools that she has better than Jotaro to end the fight before he gets the chance to do so...
Aaaaand you're forgetting that the OP said that Lucy can see SP. So, your argument kind of falls apart there (unless you mean that he'll summon her exactly when she's in his range). Lol
>The vectors will also come out much sooner (he's probably gonna throw something, it's a safe option, he's out of range (meaning he'd throw something like litterally every other time he was outta range of an enemy, why he would doesn't even matter much because of how often he does that ), it'd force his opponent to react, dodge, block, attack and that would lead to him seeing some of the power most likely, thus it's an optimal decision given the situation. Anf in this case he's throws something, be it a button a rock or even a stick like a javelin and Lucy is forced to summon vectors to dodge or try and block (and then fail due to AP difference). Jotaro now knows about vectors and his disadvantages.
Ehhhh... Same points as before for me. He's not gonna have anything in-character to throw at Lucy, causing him to run away from her reach and THEN get something to throw at her :/
But yes, he will learn about the disadvantages. But my point was whether or not Lucy will allow him to use this information to capitalize, which I argue NO FRA.
And considering that she's gonna run at him while the vectors expand, the vectors will be approaching Jotaro at 2 times the speed she runs (which using speed equalization should be equal to his own running speed). So, it would be illogical for him to consider throwing an object to throw at these situations.
> Basically same as what's already been stated. No point repeating. Not that this effects the match in anyway but SP can do that too, although he doesn't tend to do that in battle. (Actually thinking on it? What's stopping Star Platinum from working against the vectors when they try to do that if given a chance, SP can and has shown to be able to physically interact with Jotaro's body, like his heart, he can phase and he works at a scale above any machine of his time period).
The fact that he can't stop 28 vectors all trying to yank his insides outside of his body and trying to cut off his blood vessels is what's stopping SP from doing what you suggested...
> She's going to have to summon them at a distance as Jotaro, like it or not, is going to be throwing something, even if that something is like a pin or a button. You say better mobility but either Jotaro can fly, or he has like the exact same mobility via Stand jumps and Stand propulsion. It's either the same or he's better.
But she can levitate? Something he can't really do if he can't fly? Also, don't bring up flight when the OP said not to...
And honestly, you really aren't convincing anyone by bringing a point that isn't supported by the circumstances the OP chose. For the last time, he isn't throwing anything significant. In fact, he tries to do that at this time, he will just leave himself open to her 28 vectors to be destroyed, which is something Jotaro would definitely try to not let happen. Like I said, he would try to get away from that!
>Yes and because of those factors you actually argued a good reason why Lucy would lose. And given how much yu pushed it, there ain't no backpedaling. Hell, there's even a chance he'd let Lucy think she got him (if she ever got close enough and landed a hit) and play dead or only to sneak attack after she dropped her guard.
Except I didn't and it's just you missing the points of my arguments, misusing examples of tactics as something he leads with, twisting SBA, not really heeding the OP's instructions, and... me being a dumbass and misusing a word....
> Her starting mentality is exactly why she loses, the moment she begins to approach he won't, given he's gonna lead with fastballing litterally anything he can or simply backing off then doing it when he can or both for that matter, that's bad for her, like, really bad, especially as he starts with range advantage via projectiles (well both got that actually, difference being his are lethal and must be dodged, if blocked that's ohko) and his assumption is she's a stand user thus dont engage unless you know you can.
No. It is why she WINS if you didn't do what you did previously mentioned. And for the last time, he WON'T lead with throwing projectiles. He didn't lead with that against none of the examples you first mentioned. I searched up their battles and he starts off with CQC. It is after he figures out their abilities, or he finds himself in a tight pinch that he resorts to using projectiles. The button is situational, and Lucy just won't give him the chance to throw it anywa.
> Oh yeah, and Jotaro panicing doesn't mean anything. When that happens, SP and it's self preservation kicks in. If Jotaro panics SP won't and will react accordingly. He can even do so when Jotaro is out cold and his heart is stopped.
I never said he would panic... What...? I said he would jump out of there considering it is the LOGICAL THING TO DO in this situation, and THEN use his surroundings as projectiles.
And cool. Let's see if that self-preservation can prevent from having his entrails completely removed from his body and his insides severly damaged.
And with that, I go to bed.
- 35
- 6
- Thread starter
- #57
Hot man 0 (Chariot, I'm not trying to sound biased, but the moment you misinterpreted SBA at the very beginning your whole rebuttal became invalid).
Hot woman 2
Hot woman 2
- 14,323
- 11,345
I didn't misinterpret SBA. SBA, at least according to others on other threads gives both combatents the basic knowledge of who their opponent is and that they want them dead.
- 14,323
- 11,345
>Late reply but since Jotaro doesn't lead with TS, nor had the mobility advantage, then I'd unfortunately have to give this one to Lucy for the superior AP, Range and Hax. She can just trap Jotaro with her vectors and slice him into bits since he can't get away. Jotaro may be able to break out of her hold but he can't break out of 10+ arms holding him down. He loses.
Uh no shit? Nobody mentioned time stop dude and Lucy doesn't have the AP advantage, she ain't in her strongest key dude. Jotaro holds ap advantage by quite a bit.
Uh no shit? Nobody mentioned time stop dude and Lucy doesn't have the AP advantage, she ain't in her strongest key dude. Jotaro holds ap advantage by quite a bit.
- 14,323
- 11,345
Honestly, the only reason why I think Jotaro takes this is due to his nature and how he reacts to things. If he started within Lucy's range yeah id give it to her but at this distance and how he reacts to shit, not likely Lucy ever gets within range before he somehow finds out about the vectors and from there Lucy is losing he ranged game.
Similar threads
