A goat goes to sleep (Darkrai vs Asriel)

[The_real_cal_howard]

RIP 2-A Asriel.

So, Arcy-Chan stomps him now. Dialga, Palkia, and certainly Giratina likely do as well. Who's another 2-B Pokémon, and one that will likely make a fair match?

...you already saw the title.

Both at peak

 

[Epsilon_R]

I don't really see what Darkrai can do to Asriel and what Asriel can do to Darkrai. I saw that Asriel is weak against murder intentions so it could be a possibility for Darkrai to win

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Darkrai has "One Hit Kill" listed twice on his profile. Clearly this means he is the strongest and wins.

Jokes aside, I'd say Asriel. What would be Darkrai's most useful abilities here don't operate on such a scale as to nullify the power advantage that Asriel would almost certainly press from the get-go, and Darkrai doesn't really have a viable counter for if Asriel decides to save scum (which he likely would, considering there's no other DETERMINATION user directly opposing him, in this scenario). If Asriel keeps hammering him with something like Hyper Goner, Darkrai's going to end up like he did in the Palkia and Dialga fight.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Darkrai has "One Hit Kill" listed twice on his profile. Clearly this means he is the strongest and wins.

Jokes aside, I'd say Asriel. What would be Darkrai's most useful abilities here don't operate on such a scale as to nullify the power advantage that Asriel would almost certainly press from the get-go, and Darkrai doesn't really have a viable counter for if Asriel decides to save scum (which he likely would, considering there's no other DETERMINATION user directly opposing him, in this scenario). If Asriel keeps hammering him with something like Hyper Goner, Darkrai's going to end up like he did in the Palkia and Dialga fight.

Why does he still have "dwarfs god flowey by an infinite amount" as his justification for 2-B?

 

[Jinsye]

Because he still does.

It's just that it doesn't grant him 2-A anymore.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Because he still does.

It's just that it doesn't grant him 2-A anymore.

Because of Assaults 2-C thread?

 

[Jinsye]

Yes.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Ah, well Asriel fra.

 

[Udlmaster]

Does Asriel have resistances to being put to sleep? If he can put a kid to sleep, then he's pretty much won by spamming Nightmare and Bad dreams spam with Dream Eater.

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

Does Asriel have resistances to being put to sleep? If he can put a kid to sleep, then he's pretty much won by spamming Nightmare and Bad dreams spam with Dream Eater.

Asriel can resurrect. Darkrai cannot. Plus Asriel can nullify all Darkrai's power with angel of death. My vote goes for Asriel

 

[Udlmaster]

Asriel Can resurrect?

 

[Eficiente]

Goat ftra.

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

Asriel Can resurrect?

Yes, via SAVE and LOAD.

 

[Schnee_One]

Asriel for Azzy's reasons

 

[PaChi2]

The goat obliterates. Jus like exodia.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Goat simulator fra

 

[Lightbuster30]

Thats 7 I think.

 

[Udlmaster]

How is he going to be able to Save and Load while unconscious?

And Darkrai can cripple his determination and the determination of the souls inside of him, this can then lead to Asriel losing his powers.

 

[Jinsye]

Because you can SAVE and LOAD when you're dead.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

First, it does not need concsiusness to work.

Second,proof that he can cripple it? And no, its not a feeling, its more akin to ectoplasma

 

[Udlmaster]

Well, we know that DETERMINATION is also an Emotion and one that anyone can generate, even Monsters like Undyne, the more Determined as an emotion they are, the more DETERMINATION they have, and the SAVE & LOAD would only work if Asriel as a being had the DETERMINATION, but he doesn't, the 6 souls and everyone in the Underground does, so Asriel wouldn't be able to SAVE & LOAD once the souls start rebelling or the souls lose their determination, for example, Darkrai taking the souls out of his body or directly attacking the souls using abilities like Shadow Ball, and if Darkrai destroys one of the souls, Asriel will turn into Omega Flowey, and then into something lesser. And Asriel is still just a Kid, he has everyone's emotions inside of him and Darkrai has been shown to manipulate people using their friends before, look at the few moments before his fight, and unlike before, Darkrai isn't going to be stopped by Cresselia.


And the SAVE & LOAD while being dead thing is more automatic and was only shown with Frisk, Flowey loaded while he was dying but not while dead, and then lost his ability to SAVE & LOAD as the souls turned against him.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, undyne was given DT by alphis, the pink stuff she mentions in pacifist.

Asriel cannot save and load because he doenst have dt but the souls do? Do you even omega flowey?

No, if the soul were removed hed just reset to a point where they werent.

Exept... Sans killed him, repitedly.

 

[Jinsye]

ummmm

you see....

DETERMINATION isn't exactly an emotion y'see.

Also Asriel's SAVE and LOAD should scale to Frisk, since he has more DETERMINATION than they have.

Also the Flower is 2-B too sooooo he can still fight and LOAD and all that jazz.

 

[Udlmaster]

Well, it's very clearly tied to the Determination emotion, like when Undyne has the determination to live and Fight Genocide Frisk.

 

[Udlmaster]

If it's not an emotional connection, then how does Undyne have Determination?

 

[Jinsye]

I'm pretty sure the emotion determination doesn't make monsters melt into a puddle or be able to be injected into a flower.

DETERMINATION does that, not determination.

A monster can feel determined to do something, doesn't mean they have DETERMINATION.

 

[Udlmaster]

And if it isn't an Emotional Connection, why does Asgore always say when you're dead: "Stay Determined" if it's not an emotional connection, it wouldn't make any sense.

Also, Omega Flowey is "immeasurably" weaker than Asriel, so it'd be much easier for Darkrai to win there too.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Because those were the words he said to chara before she died.

Asriel is infinitly stronger, so pretty sure he onehots there, asriel is immisurable amount of timelines, so he would still have dificulties.

And again, asriel can just reset to a point where they have DT

 

[Jinsye]

I highly doubt Asgore is knowledgeable on the subject of DETERMINATION and was probably only using it as a encouragement for Chara.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

If it's not an emotional connection, then how does Undyne have Determination?

Did you not read what I wrote, alphys gace it to herr, albeit unknown to undyne.

 

[Udlmaster]

Can you confirm that Alphys gave her Determination, and no, I don't mean a theory or speculation, I mean a line of dialogue where Alphys or Undyne says that Alphys gave Undyne Determination to become Undying?

 

[Udlmaster]

Also, Asgore doesn't say: "Stay Determined" he says it the exact same way we've seen it: "DETERMINED"

 

[Jinsye]

You sure about that?

 

[Eficiente]

Also, Asgore doesn't say: "Stay Determined" he says it the exact same way we've seen it: "DETERMINED"

DETERMINATION is empowered by determination, it is not very complicated.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Can you confirm that Alphys gave her Determination, and no, I don't mean a theory or speculation, I mean a line of dialogue where Alphys or Undyne says that Alphys gave Undyne Determination to become Undying?

Can you prove monsters have DT?

It ks directly stated that alphys gave weird pink stuff to eat to her, and she is the only monster with DT. And its litiraly stated that monsters cannot have DT naturaly several times

 

[Udlmaster]

Undyne is obviously the exception to that rule as she clearly shows DETERMINATION in front of us. And the Pink Goo is speculation.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yes, and it makes no sense for her to be an exeption. We are given direct statements that monsters cannot have dt, period. Only way to have it is being injected, there is no possible way for undyne to have DT whitout breaking rules exept alphys.

And ignoring the rule is not any better then using a solution hinted at, and more likely.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well, we know that DETERMINATION is also an Emotion and one that anyone can generate, even Monsters like Undyne, the more Determined as an emotion they are, the more DETERMINATION they have, and the SAVE & LOAD would only work if Asriel as a being had the DETERMINATION, but he doesn't, the 6 souls and everyone in the Underground does, so Asriel wouldn't be able to SAVE & LOAD once the souls start rebelling or the souls lose their determination, for example, Darkrai taking the souls out of his body or directly attacking the souls using abilities like Shadow Ball, and if Darkrai destroys one of the souls, Asriel will turn into Omega Flowey, and then into something lesser. And Asriel is still just a Kid, he has everyone's emotions inside of him and Darkrai has been shown to manipulate people using their friends before, look at the few moments before his fight, and unlike before, Darkrai isn't going to be stopped by Cresselia.


And the SAVE & LOAD while being dead thing is more automatic and was only shown with Frisk, Flowey loaded while he was dying but not while dead, and then lost his ability to SAVE & LOAD as the souls turned against him.

There's a lot wrong with this.

First of all, "and the SAVE & LOAD would only work if Asriel as a being had the DETERMINATION, but he doesn't". What? He's literally made out of six DETERMINATION factories, and his incomplete form is characterized by the fact he constantly spams SAVE & LOAD.

"the 6 souls and everyone in the Underground does, so Asriel wouldn't be able to SAVE & LOAD once the souls start rebelling or the souls lose their determinatio"

You mean the things completely under Asriel's control that only broke away from his weaker, incomplete form through specific outside help?

"or example, Darkrai taking the souls out of his body or directly attacking the souls using abilities like Shadow Ball"

So something he's literally never shown the capacity to do, especially to a being that's actually stronger than he is?

"and if Darkrai destroys one of the souls, Asriel will turn into Omega Flowey, and then into something lesser."

You mean the things he'd need to remove from Asriel to even attempt to destroy? Which would, again, require him to use an ability he's never demonstrated on a being stronger than he is?

"And Asriel is still just a Kid, he has everyone's emotions inside of him and Darkrai has been shown to manipulate people using their friends before"

This is extremely unfortunate for Darkrai, considering Asriel spends most of the fight trying to brutally murder someone who he's imagining is his closest friend. And unlike Frisk, Darkrai can't come back from being erased simply by willing it.

"And the SAVE & LOAD while being dead thing is more automatic and was only shown with Frisk"

The Player doesn't get the choice because Frisk is choosing to LOAD instantly. Asriel spends the first half of the fight bragging about how the moment Frisk is gone, he'll wipe everyone's memories and all of the game's events, which Frisk pretty clearly doesn't want to happen. Also, "only shown with Frisk". You mean the only top tier DETERMINATION user who actually dies? Flowey is depowered before being defeated, Asriel willingly gives up, and Chara becomes an abstract idea that persists throughout all iterations of the game. Frisk is the only one with the opportunity to do this.

 

[Schnee_One]

This thread is concluded BTW

Close and Add at will

 

[Kaltias]

Tfw Flowey with no SOULs could use SAVE and LOAD after death because he admits himself that he was killed by Sans multiple times.

Clearly becoming multiversal made him weaker