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I already did a thread for this, but most people in agreement/disagreement did so very early in the thread and haven't replied again, even though new arguments were made for both sides. In any case...
The logic for them being 8-B and 8-A respectively is pretty simple: a human soul is legitimately 8-B via matching the power of every monster in the Underground combined. Frisk has one while P. Flowey has 6.
However, this goes against the lore of the game.
From Snowdin's Librarby:
"While monsters are mostly made of magic, human beings are mostly made of water.[...]"
"Because they are made of magic, monsters’ bodies are attuned to their SOUL.[...]"
From Waterfall's glyphs:
"[..]But humans have one weakness. Ironically, it is the strength of their SOUL. Its power allows it to persist outside the human body, even after death. If a monster defeats a human, they can take its SOUL. A monster with a human SOUL... A horrible beast with unfathomable power."
The takeaway here is that, since humans are not made of magic like monsters, their bodies are not attuned to their soul (At least not to the extent that monsters are) and their AP shouldn't scale to their soul. Flowey is not a human, but his body isn't made of magic either.
Where does that leave the Tier 8 ratings?
Frisk's 8-B becomes "At least 9-A" unless I'm missing something. Their 8-B durability becomes "At most 8-C" via barely surviving this attack.
Photoshop Flowey would be "High 8-C" via this feat.
The Humans souls retain their rating, is just that only Asriel with Chara's soul scales.
Other stuff
Determination is not Soul Power
Soul Power is a term used in Alphys' Lab entries prior to the discovery of Determination, and most likely the unit of measurement used in the Underground to, well, measure how powerful souls are. However, both terms are not synonyms of each other given:
1. Alphys goes out of her way to give Determination it's own name, which wouldn't be necessary if both therms mean the same.
2. Soul Power has a fixed value, while Determination wildly fluctuates.
3. Monsters can directly tap into the power of the human souls they absorb without needing to feel particularly determined.
The Waterfall Glyphs do not prove that Determination is Soul Power
Specifically the part that I quoted earlier, coupled with the True Lab Entry 5:
"Using the blueprints, I've extracted it from the human SOULs.
I believe this is what gives their SOULs the strength to persist after death.
The will to keep living... The resolve to change fate.
Let's call this power...
"Determination.""
Keep in mind that Monster souls work differently than Human souls: Human souls persist after death thanks to determination, while Monster souls do so out of sheer strenght (That's why Undyne the Undying's soul doesn't persist after death even though she has more determination than Asgore, whose soul does persist after death)
So it's clear that monsters just put 2 and 2 together with what they knew about monster souls and what they found out about human souls ("Boss Monster's souls persist after death because they are strong and human souls are as strong as every monster soul combined. Therefore, human souls persist after death because they are strong")
Determination-based AP boost do not depend on your Soul Power
Well, that's a half lie. Stronger souls produce more determination on average, but that's about it.
Frisk has been overpowered 2 times by beings with both less Soul Power and less Determination: Flowey at the beginning of the game (He almost one-shots them) and Undyne the Undying (Frisk only beats her due to having unlimited tries and memorizing her attacks).
The other example is Undyne the Undying. Her Determination boost made her surpass Asgore and Toriel in power, but her soul is still weaker than both of their's as it did not persist after death.
tl;dr: No matter how determined they are shown to be, we have no reason to scale Frisk or Flowey to their soul(s) as Determination is not Soul Power nor does it scale to Soul Power outside of how much can be generated.
Frisk's AP and Durability don't scale linearly after certain level
Frisk at the peak of their determination can barely tank low 2-C attacks from Asriel but are unable to hurt them back, and the highest their AP has gone beyond any doubt is 9-A. So we don't know when does their AP start falling behind their Durability and we can't tell what's their AP at the peak of their determination.
Photoshop Flowey's abilities aren't related to AP
I've seen pointed out several times that since P. Fowey shows so much control over the new powers he gets from his souls, then he should be able to access their full power. But not only are Flowey's abilities something that has been done by several, weaker characters (Except having more than a singular save file, changing some text from the intro of the game, and... something that I believe is meant to be a pocket dimention?), but none of that can be linked to AP.
The logic for them being 8-B and 8-A respectively is pretty simple: a human soul is legitimately 8-B via matching the power of every monster in the Underground combined. Frisk has one while P. Flowey has 6.
However, this goes against the lore of the game.
From Snowdin's Librarby:
"While monsters are mostly made of magic, human beings are mostly made of water.[...]"
"Because they are made of magic, monsters’ bodies are attuned to their SOUL.[...]"
From Waterfall's glyphs:
"[..]But humans have one weakness. Ironically, it is the strength of their SOUL. Its power allows it to persist outside the human body, even after death. If a monster defeats a human, they can take its SOUL. A monster with a human SOUL... A horrible beast with unfathomable power."
The takeaway here is that, since humans are not made of magic like monsters, their bodies are not attuned to their soul (At least not to the extent that monsters are) and their AP shouldn't scale to their soul. Flowey is not a human, but his body isn't made of magic either.
Where does that leave the Tier 8 ratings?
Frisk's 8-B becomes "At least 9-A" unless I'm missing something. Their 8-B durability becomes "At most 8-C" via barely surviving this attack.
Photoshop Flowey would be "High 8-C" via this feat.
The Humans souls retain their rating, is just that only Asriel with Chara's soul scales.
Other stuff
Determination is not Soul Power
Soul Power is a term used in Alphys' Lab entries prior to the discovery of Determination, and most likely the unit of measurement used in the Underground to, well, measure how powerful souls are. However, both terms are not synonyms of each other given:
1. Alphys goes out of her way to give Determination it's own name, which wouldn't be necessary if both therms mean the same.
2. Soul Power has a fixed value, while Determination wildly fluctuates.
3. Monsters can directly tap into the power of the human souls they absorb without needing to feel particularly determined.
The Waterfall Glyphs do not prove that Determination is Soul Power
Specifically the part that I quoted earlier, coupled with the True Lab Entry 5:
"Using the blueprints, I've extracted it from the human SOULs.
I believe this is what gives their SOULs the strength to persist after death.
The will to keep living... The resolve to change fate.
Let's call this power...
"Determination.""
Keep in mind that Monster souls work differently than Human souls: Human souls persist after death thanks to determination, while Monster souls do so out of sheer strenght (That's why Undyne the Undying's soul doesn't persist after death even though she has more determination than Asgore, whose soul does persist after death)
So it's clear that monsters just put 2 and 2 together with what they knew about monster souls and what they found out about human souls ("Boss Monster's souls persist after death because they are strong and human souls are as strong as every monster soul combined. Therefore, human souls persist after death because they are strong")
Determination-based AP boost do not depend on your Soul Power
Well, that's a half lie. Stronger souls produce more determination on average, but that's about it.
Frisk has been overpowered 2 times by beings with both less Soul Power and less Determination: Flowey at the beginning of the game (He almost one-shots them) and Undyne the Undying (Frisk only beats her due to having unlimited tries and memorizing her attacks).
The other example is Undyne the Undying. Her Determination boost made her surpass Asgore and Toriel in power, but her soul is still weaker than both of their's as it did not persist after death.
tl;dr: No matter how determined they are shown to be, we have no reason to scale Frisk or Flowey to their soul(s) as Determination is not Soul Power nor does it scale to Soul Power outside of how much can be generated.
Frisk's AP and Durability don't scale linearly after certain level
Frisk at the peak of their determination can barely tank low 2-C attacks from Asriel but are unable to hurt them back, and the highest their AP has gone beyond any doubt is 9-A. So we don't know when does their AP start falling behind their Durability and we can't tell what's their AP at the peak of their determination.
Photoshop Flowey's abilities aren't related to AP
I've seen pointed out several times that since P. Fowey shows so much control over the new powers he gets from his souls, then he should be able to access their full power. But not only are Flowey's abilities something that has been done by several, weaker characters (Except having more than a singular save file, changing some text from the intro of the game, and... something that I believe is meant to be a pocket dimention?), but none of that can be linked to AP.
