4-A Anankos 2: Electric Boogaloo

[JustSomeWeirdo]

In the final battle of Revelation, Anankos creates a vortex that sucks several islands into a world filled with stars

"But JSW, last time it was determined that Anankos never made the dimension because he's never stated to have done so!"

That's correct, but context matters too, such as how everyone reacted to the dimension:

Takumi: Impossible... This is...impossible... There's no way we can defeat that...

Leo: Damn it! What can we possibly do? The world is done for...

Xander: Hah. Fate is a funny thing. I never thought my final moments would be alongside a Hoshidan prince.

Ryoma: I couldn't have said it better myself. But I won't die so easily. If our time has come, I'll meet it on my feet!

Azura: It can't be... Have we truly failed? Was everything for naught?

Their immediate reaction to the dimension is "We're all going to die"

Sure, it could be that Anankos has regained his full power, but they could've said it when Anankos actually regained his full power rather than waiting for him to take them on a field trip, which to me makes it sound less like taking them to space and more of a showing of power.

Of course, my opinion of it being a showing of power is clearly not going to be enough, so let me tell you why it has to be a pocket dimension.

Anankos: ... So...Lilith has left. That stupid pawn! She knows that, like myself, she will lose most of her power when she leaves here... Well, it matters not. (Source: Hidden Truths 2)

If the only alternative to a pocket dimension is space, then Anankos would clearly be leaving Valla and then there would be absolutely no point to regaining his true power from Garo in the first place, so there's no way they're just going to space

Tl;Dr (Cause I know I probably worded this very poorly) I believe Anankos is 4-A because the dimension was (imo) treated as a showing of power and the only other alternative is Anankos going to space and losing all of his power

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'll remain neutral on this for the time being, but I too have a feeling this might not be accepted given the history.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

The argument used against this last time was that Anankos didn't actually create a pocket dimension....but if he didn't, where did they go?

I don't think you can really argue space when Anankos himself says he cannot leave Valla

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That is a good point, but at the same time. One could also argue that the dimension already existed and that Anankos merely teleports people to it. Anankos does still appear to be tied to it though, so once again; I'm neutral.

 

[Bobsican]

"He is weaker than Naga, and Naga is comparable to Duma and Mila, and both needed help from the other to make a 6-A thing, Valentia. Outlier" -Hans "

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I was going to get to scaling later, and the only other thing supporting Tier 6 is Grima being big (which doesn't make it an outlier either)

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Grima's size? Sure, it supports a rating, but it's just size

The current 7-B rating? That's just bringing things into the dimension

Anankos obliterating a forest? AoE

Duma and Mila? Oops, never happened

Any other feats?

 

[XitSign]

I'm currently unsure and neutral, but curious.

However, it's come to light that the wording for Duma and Mila's combined 6-A feat might have been misquoted or misinterpreted, and depending on your source they didn't actually make the continent, instead finding it and terriforming it for thier own needs. If that ends up being the case, Valentia isn't really holding things back anymore.

Right now our 6-B tier mostly comes from Grima just being a big boi and Medeus's hype being backed up by people's fear, but being a danger to the planet doesn't exactly mean he can't be stronger, especially when a single planet is all the people of the world really know and have the perspective to be afraid for.

So if this can get support for Anankos actually creating the pocket dimension, I don't think anything else really contradicts it to make it an outlier now.

 

[XitSign]

You ever just write up a reply that you think nails everything that needs to be said...and then have someone snipe you first?

But, yeah, nothing controdicts being that powerful, we just need some good aruments and proof that the pocket dimension thing is real and Anakos' power's doing and I think I can support this idea.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Duma and Mila warping the Continent would still be something, just probably not quite Tier 6. And Grima's size simply means High 6-B is a baseline, not something that disproves an outlier. For example, Greek Titans are 7-A sized but have Tier 2 feats to scale from. That being said, one pocket dimension feat that people don't quite know whether or not he created it does raise a few questions, and the 7-B feat is extremely casual and could be much higher than that.

So again, I'm neutral, but I prefer more details rather than just calling something an outlier.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

While I admit the support for this being 4-A isn't THAT great, the biggest thing in favor of it is (in my opinion, of course) the implications of the alternative being that Anankos leaves his territory and completely wastes his power, rather just going to a different part of his own territory

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Fun isn't something one considers when creating a CRT, but this... does put a bump on my thread

 

[DarkGrath]

This actually does seem somewhat reasonable to me. Though I must admit, this would probably be better as a "Likely/Possibly 4-A" rating, since there are some mild assumptions that must be made for it to be valid.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Also, Corrin (Blazing and Shadow Yato, along with the Endgame Birthright and Conquest keys), Garon, and Takumi should all get a "Likely far higher" if this is accepted, as Anankos felt considerably more powerful after absorbing Garon, going from losing to having a three phase boss fight where he became much harder to actually put down

 

[Bobsican]

Why "far higher" if we already know the tier it would be? (Aka, just "Likely 4-A" would be better overall)

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I feel like it would be considered a little questionable for them to be 4-A, but in all honesty that IS the implication the rating would have, just a much lower end

 

[DarkGrath]

Yeah, 4-A has an absolute massive gap between the low end and the high end. Even if the likes of Gator were hundreds of times more powerful than Anankos (which I very highly doubt) that would still probably put them in 4-A.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Oh no, Anankos is definitely stronger than Garon even when restricted, he was still able to put some fight against the Omega Yato, it's just that Anankos gave a pretty good amount of power to Garon, which allowed a noticable increase in power when Anankos regained his full power, but I doubt Anankos would let Garon be stronger than himself, especially when he made Takumi even stronger than Garon

 

[Bobsican]

Oh no, Anankos is definitely stronger than Garon even when restricted, he was still able to put some fight against the Omega Yato, it's just that Anankos gave a pretty good amount of power to Garon, which allowed a noticable increase in power when Anankos regained his full power, but I doubt Anankos would let Garon be stronger than himself

If Garon was stronger he would have been able to actually fight back instead of just being easily devoured.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Should we also make separate keys for Anankos for the difference in power between his restricted and full power self?

 

[Bobsican]

Of course, if that wasn´t obvious.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Restricted: Likely Tier (Was able to barely put up a fight against Corri with the Omega Yato)

Full Power: Tier (Was able to have a drawn out fight against Corrin)

 

[Bobsican]

Correct.

"Tier" would be 4-A for obvious reasons, at least depending on how that part goes.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I used "Tier" as a placeholder, in case this doesn't go through, but it should be 4-A

 

[Bobsican]

"At 9:18, this video shows the last moments of the game, where the "feat" that would upgrade the verse to 4-A is shown. In truth, the video shows how the dragon in question makes a pseudo black hole portal and somehow pulls the cast into it (It is never shown how the heroes jump onto the portal or if they are pulled in against their will) , there is no moment the realm "comes into being" or is being created by Anankos.

https://youtu.be/T8e3dG2pNIM

https://youtu.be/eV15dcVq8HE

0:10

The OP is misleading and wants to make it seem like the characters are talking about the background or the 'star filled realm', while the actual dialogue heavely implies they are instead talking about Anankos himself (since takumi says "We cannot defeat that!" the verb defeat does not mean being stronger or being mightier, just beating someone up to the point of being "defeated")

If Takumi was trying to say that their powers are not even comparable to his 4-A feat, he would have said "We cannot beat/surpass that" instead. Corrin confirms my argument at 1:00

"No matter how massive this dragon seems, we can win if we work together."

This confirms that they were never talking about the star background nor the supposed 4-A feat, but of Anankos's size.

The party obtains Omega Yato before this and they still fear Corrin is not strong enough to face a dragon that big, not to mention that the 4-A feat is never referenced, mentioned or confirmed to have been made by Anankos in any point of the game.

14:03.

After they defeat Anankos, the realm stays the same, which confirms the realm is not being held in place by Anankos and can exist without him being alive.

The party also leave the realm in the next scene on their own, which makes Anankos being able to pull people in against their will doubtful, unless Corrin and the rest somehow have space-time portal creation."

- Hans

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

"They were referring to his size"

I already admitted that was my worst point, so I'll move on

"The realm can exist without Anankos"

Just because it exists without Anankos doesn't mean that Anankos didn't create it, just that he didn't have to constantly hold it together. It doesn't necessarily prove or disprove anything

"Unless Corrin and the rest somehow-"

Lilith exists

Again, you have to prove how Anankos left his territory without losing his power in order to really prove the "well, he actually DID leave his territory" argument

 

[Bobsican]

""The realm continuing to exist without him is just a clarification, a fact worth pointing out.

Regardless, you have not disproven the fact the party was talking about his size since Corrin himself states that Anankos being that massive was the main source of fear in the party. It does not matter how much you think its your "worst point", it still contradicts your claim.

The burden of proof is actually on you proving that Anankos actually made the realm, in the entire video, there is not a single mention of Anankos making the realm, nor is it ever directly or indirectly mentioned by the party, so there is no clear feat of creation that could result in the suggested tiering."

- Hans

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

I guess we're just going to say it was a random dimension that Anankos had access to, which let's Anankos, who only has power within his own home, keep his full power

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

At this point, I'm starting to think Anankos creating the dimension is the most logical solution. The Outlier argument is a different story, but just a few notes. Destructive Capacity =/= Attack Potency, and character's size being Tier 6 wouldn't debunk a Tier 4 feat as long as the Tier 4 feat is legit/concrete.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Outlier argument exists, I suppose, but I'll go through feats again

Anankos Creates a Black Hole: Just bringing things into the dimension

Soul's "7-B" feat: We actually don't know how much damage was done, so if could be even higher (the current rating is extremely lowballed and Anankos only did what he was asked)

Grima's size: Like I said above, this is just Grima being an absolute unit

Anankos obliterating a forest: Completely accidental

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, Grima's size is just a baseline, and all of those are casual. And there's also Anankos restoring the planetary surface damage done by Grima via Space-Time manipulation.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Undoing the damage done is the justification for Soul's 7-B rating, just just the lowest possible low-ball because we don't know how much damage Grima had done

Not to mention that it was possibly the most casual thing Anankos has ever done

 

[Bobsican]

"High 6-A Anakos is wrong since the damage done by Grima in the future is unknown and it was done over time. Even then, it should be put as "with hax" since it does not scale to raw AP nor it makes sense since Anankos states he is weaker than Naga and thus, weaker than Grima and should not be able to delete everything he has done in a short timeframe.

Regardless, back to 4-A.

The burden of proof is on whoever claims he created such realm, it is not up for those to oppose it to prove he did not make the realm. There are also multiple things that make the feat fishy, such as Corrin talking about how massive he was, the lack of any mention of the realm itself or if he made it and the fact they got omega yato before the confrontation, if Corrin would scale due to it and has similar feats, the rest of the cast would not have been that scared of Anankos's size."

- Hans

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Imagine focusing on the major point rather than talking about what I already admitted to be a bad point

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We should probably ask Dark649 about this thread.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Just for adding a point for 4-A: Unsealed Anankos was able to bring all Anankos in the same dimension, despite having destroyed his world and the other ones and was going to create his own Valla, so maybe it could help for OP's feat (even if this Anankos is more tier 2).

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Are there some active reliable members, particularly staff, listed in the Fire Emblem page that you can ask to comment here?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have commented, and now more so leaning towards 4-A being fine. I know Reppuzan is inactive and I did here Glassman is also busy. But I did suggest that someone could ask Dark649. I have also messaged Real Cal Howard on Discord, who supports the series.