- 19,283
- 9,703
Yeah so I looked at the Time Power and Special Ki pages for DBH and there's yet again more questionable stuff I see, so lets get to it.
Concept Hax: So ignoring how more than half of this paragraph long explanation feels like nothing burgers as it just repeats stuff unrelated to Conceptual hax, the only thing that remotely mentions concept hax is the fact that there's a dimension that isn't a part of the world or has a different concept of space and time, which doesn't remotely prove anything about Time Power creating or altering concepts in the first place, especially if it's not a part of the world in the first place so why would this remotely count for time scrolls if it's not a part of the worlds the scrolls maintain? The rest of the scans is just time power sustaining the timelines/dimensions which doesn't remotely help for concept hax, the fact that Janemba is the manifestation of evil, but absolutely nothing about this remotely is elaborated by him being an abstract concept beyond just him being infected by the impurity from souls in the soul cleansing machine, and that it maintains order, which isn't Conceptual hax in the slightest unless it's elaborated to Time Power controlling the concept of order itself.
Law Manipulation: So why exactly is Time Power being scaled to this ability through something Tokitoki himself does? Who's a very unique being due to the fact that his eggs not only create timelines when hatched but he also maintains them constantly unlike other time users who do not remotely have that whatsoever? Especially when he has his own page separate from time power and not even the Supreme Kai of time herself remotely scales to the stuff he specifically does at all? Other than that, the attack being named "law of time" is an obvious name fallacy and you'd need more elaboration on this to be legit "I can control the laws of time", otherwise Android Saga Vegeta would've had 3-A and higher ratings a while ago because of his "Big Bang Attack". This should at best only be time bird specific, and nothing more.
Immortality: Just like with Law hax, why is the main argument for time power users having immortality stemmed completely from Tokitoki? Who's the only one who remotely has any form of statements on his existence being tied to time itself with the lore of him hatching an egg and said egg birthing a new Tokitoki and a new timeline as a result? Same argument with Mechikabura as that's him absorbing the time bird, which is a whole different beast from normal time power. Same with law hax, should exclusively be for time bird at best.
Reality Warping: This is the same arguments in the past which I've refuted before but I'll say this again, nothing there remotely mentions Time Power has reality warping effects, at best it has subjective reality stuff with the "take inner thoughts and make it a real timeline" so that needs to be removed unless there's other scans to better justify this being reality warping.
Data and Info (Type 2): Why is something specifically from Fu remotely scaled to the normal time scrolls when the tokipedia is its own thing specifically? Just saying it's a replica when at no point in the scans does it remotely say they function exactly the same isn't enough evidence for this to remotely cross scale to each other. Same with the Ziku world as nothing remotely mentions it being a world made entirely of data or information, just that it's an online thing you can do in the real world. So unless DBH has some feats of actually affecting the Wi-Fi in our own world, this is not it.
Informational, Nonexistent and Conceptual Erasure: Where's the proof the information itself is being targeted specifically? Especially when nothing in the scans remotely mention that's being erased at all? Same with the Nonexistent timeline as nothing remotely mentions it's being erased at all. As for conceptual erasure I've already tackled that early in this post, this wouldn't remotely count for Conceptual erasure since the stuff being mentioned doesn't have any indication of being actual concepts time power can control.
Void Manipulation: Yeah barely anything here remotely hints at controlling literal nothingness, having an ability to sustain timelines and erase them doesn't automatically mean you get void hax, that's textbook definition NLF where you push the feat to the most extreme with little to no evidence that would be the case at all.
Acausality Negation: Does this get remotely elaborated to where they're susceptible to changes in time? Because being "dragged back into time" is too vague in of itself without much elaboration.
Regeneration and Regen/Immortality Negation: Gonna be tackling both of these at the same time to avoid a bit of redundancy. What part of this scan remotely implies regeneration? Especially when Goku commented on how "everything turned back to how it was", adding the context on how Time Power is capable of creating entire realities and sustaining them or restoring them back to normal, all of this just screams Creation and not regeneration, otherwise that would've been specified in the first place, ESPECIALLY on a high godly level with all of these different types as again, nothing about this is remotely ever stated. In regards for regen negation, where is it remotely implied it can do the exact same thing the Universe seed does? Especially when time power users lose to dark ki users in the past like with Chronoa being controlled by dark ki so it's obviously not the absolute strongest thing ever. Also nothing remotely mentioned about time power being able to kill beings that are already dead so this isn't really helping here.
Precognition: So knowing that supreme kai of times have their own physiology with their own abilities, how is this a Time Power thing and not a Supreme Kai thing when the only reference point is Agios, who is a supreme kai of time in the first place? This should just be a Supreme Kai thing only unless there's other evidence of time users being able to see into the future like this.
Paralysis Inducement: The fact that the freezing ability is specifically a time stop ability doesn't make this paralysis inducement, it's just timestop simple as that, don't really get why this was pushed.
Vector Manipulation: If it being stated as directional manipulation of space time is all that there then I'm not seeing it, especially given Direction's not remotely close to what a Vector is in the first place.
Death Manipulation: Why is the name of the attack being called an instant kill move a justification for Death hax? Especially when we literally see it delete someone, which is NOT what Death Hax is supposed to be? Unless there's actual explicit statements of time power being able to inflict death, this needs to go.
Text Manipulation: Ignoring how hardly any of the scans here remotely mention anything about text existing in the scrolls, let alone being manipulated easily, the only scan I've remotely seen to imply text existing is this set of scans, which is taking the word "plot" for the summary of what happens in the story of the game itself, and somehow extrapolate it to the "text" of the time scrolls itself just because it has a visual look of the time scrolls, ignoring how video game plot summaries exist in any game with a plot to begin with so this isn't remotely an argument to make. So this ability needs to be removed for how much of a stretch it is unless other scans are provided to explain this.
Dimensional Manipulation: This is not Dimensional Manipulation, period, nothing about this remotely mentions controlling and warping dimensional planes like how the page itself suggests, it's just the old Higher Dimensional Manipulation argument and I don't get why this got added back in the first place.
Causality and Probability Manipulation: What about the history being made of event connected into a flow remotely translate into causality manipulation? Especially when nothing remotely mentions them warping cause and effect to achieve their desired outcomes, same with probability hax as mentioning "possibilities" isn't remotely an argument unless they're actually manipulating the actual probability of something happening from 10% to 50% chance of happening. The latter also applies to Demon God Power as well since it's using the same argument with no elaboration on controlling the chances of outcomes happening.
Resistance to Dimensional Travel, Teleportation and Time Travel: How in the world is any of this abilities that can be resisted against? Because none of these abilities are by design something to be resisted, BFR is the only thing you can argue can be resisted when you're forcing someone to be warped somewhere else, these are abilities you use on yourself to get to a place, so it doesn't make any sense, this needs to go.
DARK KI USERS:
Reality Warping: Why is space-time being warped being extrapolated to being reality warping again? Especially with no mention of that this looks like a stretch unless anything additional is added for context.
Causality Manipulation: Ignoring how half of this is just more space time warping and one scan stretching with how they mention the flow of events, but some of the scans is literally using both time power and dark ki at the same time in order to pull it off, so this wouldn't scale to dark ki alone, just the fusion.
Law and Physics Manipulation: I feel like a broken record for how many times I have to repeat this, especially in the past CRTs but this literally is NOT Dark Ki alone, it's both time power and dark ki being able to do this, the fact one of the scans highlight it being done with both abilities makes this addition baffling to me, this needs to go.
Agree: 5 @Planck69 @Maverick_Zero_X (both believes causality and vector hax is ok, rest agrees with the OP), @DarkDragonMedeus (agrees with the traversal resistance going away), @KingTempest, @Emirp sumitpo
Disagree: 1 @DarkDragonMedeus (agrees with Profectus’ original points)
Concept Hax: So ignoring how more than half of this paragraph long explanation feels like nothing burgers as it just repeats stuff unrelated to Conceptual hax, the only thing that remotely mentions concept hax is the fact that there's a dimension that isn't a part of the world or has a different concept of space and time, which doesn't remotely prove anything about Time Power creating or altering concepts in the first place, especially if it's not a part of the world in the first place so why would this remotely count for time scrolls if it's not a part of the worlds the scrolls maintain? The rest of the scans is just time power sustaining the timelines/dimensions which doesn't remotely help for concept hax, the fact that Janemba is the manifestation of evil, but absolutely nothing about this remotely is elaborated by him being an abstract concept beyond just him being infected by the impurity from souls in the soul cleansing machine, and that it maintains order, which isn't Conceptual hax in the slightest unless it's elaborated to Time Power controlling the concept of order itself.
Law Manipulation: So why exactly is Time Power being scaled to this ability through something Tokitoki himself does? Who's a very unique being due to the fact that his eggs not only create timelines when hatched but he also maintains them constantly unlike other time users who do not remotely have that whatsoever? Especially when he has his own page separate from time power and not even the Supreme Kai of time herself remotely scales to the stuff he specifically does at all? Other than that, the attack being named "law of time" is an obvious name fallacy and you'd need more elaboration on this to be legit "I can control the laws of time", otherwise Android Saga Vegeta would've had 3-A and higher ratings a while ago because of his "Big Bang Attack". This should at best only be time bird specific, and nothing more.
Immortality: Just like with Law hax, why is the main argument for time power users having immortality stemmed completely from Tokitoki? Who's the only one who remotely has any form of statements on his existence being tied to time itself with the lore of him hatching an egg and said egg birthing a new Tokitoki and a new timeline as a result? Same argument with Mechikabura as that's him absorbing the time bird, which is a whole different beast from normal time power. Same with law hax, should exclusively be for time bird at best.
Reality Warping: This is the same arguments in the past which I've refuted before but I'll say this again, nothing there remotely mentions Time Power has reality warping effects, at best it has subjective reality stuff with the "take inner thoughts and make it a real timeline" so that needs to be removed unless there's other scans to better justify this being reality warping.
Data and Info (Type 2): Why is something specifically from Fu remotely scaled to the normal time scrolls when the tokipedia is its own thing specifically? Just saying it's a replica when at no point in the scans does it remotely say they function exactly the same isn't enough evidence for this to remotely cross scale to each other. Same with the Ziku world as nothing remotely mentions it being a world made entirely of data or information, just that it's an online thing you can do in the real world. So unless DBH has some feats of actually affecting the Wi-Fi in our own world, this is not it.
Informational, Nonexistent and Conceptual Erasure: Where's the proof the information itself is being targeted specifically? Especially when nothing in the scans remotely mention that's being erased at all? Same with the Nonexistent timeline as nothing remotely mentions it's being erased at all. As for conceptual erasure I've already tackled that early in this post, this wouldn't remotely count for Conceptual erasure since the stuff being mentioned doesn't have any indication of being actual concepts time power can control.
Void Manipulation: Yeah barely anything here remotely hints at controlling literal nothingness, having an ability to sustain timelines and erase them doesn't automatically mean you get void hax, that's textbook definition NLF where you push the feat to the most extreme with little to no evidence that would be the case at all.
Acausality Negation: Does this get remotely elaborated to where they're susceptible to changes in time? Because being "dragged back into time" is too vague in of itself without much elaboration.
Regeneration and Regen/Immortality Negation: Gonna be tackling both of these at the same time to avoid a bit of redundancy. What part of this scan remotely implies regeneration? Especially when Goku commented on how "everything turned back to how it was", adding the context on how Time Power is capable of creating entire realities and sustaining them or restoring them back to normal, all of this just screams Creation and not regeneration, otherwise that would've been specified in the first place, ESPECIALLY on a high godly level with all of these different types as again, nothing about this is remotely ever stated. In regards for regen negation, where is it remotely implied it can do the exact same thing the Universe seed does? Especially when time power users lose to dark ki users in the past like with Chronoa being controlled by dark ki so it's obviously not the absolute strongest thing ever. Also nothing remotely mentioned about time power being able to kill beings that are already dead so this isn't really helping here.
Precognition: So knowing that supreme kai of times have their own physiology with their own abilities, how is this a Time Power thing and not a Supreme Kai thing when the only reference point is Agios, who is a supreme kai of time in the first place? This should just be a Supreme Kai thing only unless there's other evidence of time users being able to see into the future like this.
Paralysis Inducement: The fact that the freezing ability is specifically a time stop ability doesn't make this paralysis inducement, it's just timestop simple as that, don't really get why this was pushed.
Vector Manipulation: If it being stated as directional manipulation of space time is all that there then I'm not seeing it, especially given Direction's not remotely close to what a Vector is in the first place.
Death Manipulation: Why is the name of the attack being called an instant kill move a justification for Death hax? Especially when we literally see it delete someone, which is NOT what Death Hax is supposed to be? Unless there's actual explicit statements of time power being able to inflict death, this needs to go.
Text Manipulation: Ignoring how hardly any of the scans here remotely mention anything about text existing in the scrolls, let alone being manipulated easily, the only scan I've remotely seen to imply text existing is this set of scans, which is taking the word "plot" for the summary of what happens in the story of the game itself, and somehow extrapolate it to the "text" of the time scrolls itself just because it has a visual look of the time scrolls, ignoring how video game plot summaries exist in any game with a plot to begin with so this isn't remotely an argument to make. So this ability needs to be removed for how much of a stretch it is unless other scans are provided to explain this.
Dimensional Manipulation: This is not Dimensional Manipulation, period, nothing about this remotely mentions controlling and warping dimensional planes like how the page itself suggests, it's just the old Higher Dimensional Manipulation argument and I don't get why this got added back in the first place.
Causality and Probability Manipulation: What about the history being made of event connected into a flow remotely translate into causality manipulation? Especially when nothing remotely mentions them warping cause and effect to achieve their desired outcomes, same with probability hax as mentioning "possibilities" isn't remotely an argument unless they're actually manipulating the actual probability of something happening from 10% to 50% chance of happening. The latter also applies to Demon God Power as well since it's using the same argument with no elaboration on controlling the chances of outcomes happening.
Resistance to Dimensional Travel, Teleportation and Time Travel: How in the world is any of this abilities that can be resisted against? Because none of these abilities are by design something to be resisted, BFR is the only thing you can argue can be resisted when you're forcing someone to be warped somewhere else, these are abilities you use on yourself to get to a place, so it doesn't make any sense, this needs to go.
DARK KI USERS:
Reality Warping: Why is space-time being warped being extrapolated to being reality warping again? Especially with no mention of that this looks like a stretch unless anything additional is added for context.
Causality Manipulation: Ignoring how half of this is just more space time warping and one scan stretching with how they mention the flow of events, but some of the scans is literally using both time power and dark ki at the same time in order to pull it off, so this wouldn't scale to dark ki alone, just the fusion.
Law and Physics Manipulation: I feel like a broken record for how many times I have to repeat this, especially in the past CRTs but this literally is NOT Dark Ki alone, it's both time power and dark ki being able to do this, the fact one of the scans highlight it being done with both abilities makes this addition baffling to me, this needs to go.
Agree: 5 @Planck69 @Maverick_Zero_X (both believes causality and vector hax is ok, rest agrees with the OP), @DarkDragonMedeus (agrees with the traversal resistance going away), @KingTempest, @Emirp sumitpo
Disagree: 1 @DarkDragonMedeus (agrees with Profectus’ original points)
Last edited:
