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2-A/Low 1-C Skyfathers and Hell Lords

Well, @Sandman31, @LuciferDC099, and @Firestorm808 are likely the only current members who might be knowledgeable enough about this subject to properly evaluate it, and none of them seem particularly interested at the moment.
 
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I suppose so, but it is extremely hard to get sufficiently deep understanding of Marvel or DC Comics lore to properly analyse and tier it, and I do not want us to fumble around with the ratings without a solid basis. It would most likely make them even more unreliable than currently.
 
A lot of the people that “gave input” didn’t even address everything in the OP so whatever, I don’t care at this point
 
Yeah, it can probably be closed.

Although, I just have one question, I was going through the history of some of the pages and blogs/threads that upgraded Odin, Mephisto, Zeus, etc. to 2-C, and it included scaling them to Dormammu and the like. Does anyone know why that scaling was removed?
 
While Dormammu has received plenty of permanent amps, even in Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #1 he said Odin rivaled him in power. He already had 2-A feats decades before said amps, such as the statement that he'll destroy the Dark Dimension (which is listed on his page).
 
As there is a lot of history with Odin, Dormammu, and Dr. Strange, it's taking longer than expected to go through the connecting feats. However, I would like to ask about the statements previously brought up. Considering the time gaps and the various authors between statements, we should look into how much influence said author has with respect to the hero groups.
Roy Thomas seems to have the most influence in both Classic Avengers, Classic Thor, and Classic Dr. Strange related stories in comparison to Steve Englehart. What do you guys think? Also, how should we rank Stan Lee's input?
 
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Well, from what I remember from the Avengers-Defenders War, Loki mentioned that Odin considers Dormammu as an equal, and Loki was completely outmatched against Dormammu.
 
You are corrent. I misremembered.

See here.

That said, Odin and Dormammu did reach a draw in a battle of cosmic chess in an issue of Thor Annual, in a fight for the balance of chaos and order in the universe.
 
I believe this is it.
  • Thor Annual Vol 1 #9, November 1981
    • After Don Blake saves the life of a young boy, Thor returns to Asgard to take part in some sport. But they are attacked, and Thor is injured. During his recovery, he sees witchfire and demons about Asgard, but no one else does. When he checks on Odin, he finds him playing chess with Dormammu, with Lord Chaos and Master Order being affected by their game. Thor is then manipulated into almost helping destroy everything by helping Odin win, by Umar. But with Sif and Jane Foster's help, he manages to stop himself, with the chess game ending as it should, in a balanced draw.
 
Satannish is also shown to be a rival of Mephisto if I remember correctly, putting him on a similar tier to Agamotto.

And yeah, there’s quite a few times that other Skyfathers (well, usually just Odin and Zeus) and Hell Lords are put on a similar pedestal to Dormammu (even though he consistently scales above them), so I dunno, something like a ‘possibly’ rating might work better than my original proposal.
 
LordTracer said:
Satannish is also shown to be a rival of Mephisto if I remember correctly
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Oh definitely. Right after that statement in DSSS #30, Satannish and Mephisto fight until they're broken up by Strange. They fought earlier in DSSS #8, but were broken up by Strange again. Lastly, they fought in Avengers West Coast #100, where it was even until they were broken up (They've also both cheap-shotted each other, but I wouldn't use that for scaling). Although, all of these are out of realm Mephisto instead of in realm.
LordTracer said:
And yeah, there’s quite a few times that other Skyfathers (well, usually just Odin and Zeus) and Hell Lords are put on a similar pedestal to Dormammu (even though he consistently scales above them), so I dunno, something like a ‘possibly’ rating might work better than my original proposal.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I prefer possibly as well.
 
I imagine their justifications would look something like this.

Low Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+ ([insert other feats here]. Occasionally considered to be on a similar, albeit fairly weaker, level of power to the likes of Dormammu)
 
Probably, yes. Although a few Celestials were just beaten up by The Sentry, so Marvel's ongoing inconsistency is a major problem for our scaling reliability,
 
Antvasima said:
Probably, yes. Although a few Celestials were just beaten up by The Sentry, so Marvel's ongoing inconsistency is a major problem for our scaling reliability,
Click to expand...
Isn't Sentry one of those "Scales of but no scaling from" types of characters like Mindless Ones anyways?
 
The Celestials have also been portrayed as pushovers in Jason Aaron's recent Avengers stories, not just King in Black, and The Sentry is as powerful as a very angry Hulk. That's it. He has been shown as more powerful than Beta Ray Bill and Gladiator, but not overwhelmingly so.
 
2 Questions about the upgrade plans:

1. Does Out of Realm Mephisto scale due to fighting Satannish? Also, shouldn't Out of Realm get a "varies" thing because his power decreases depending on how long he's out?
2. If Yggdrasil as a whole goes to 2-A, will "the 9 Realms" alone still be 2-C? In my opinion they should be.
 
Out of Realm Mephisto should probably have a Varies with 2-C/2-A at most (he was out of his realm when he said Odin was his equal iirc).

And yeah, probably.
 
I do not want to upgrade anything without the consent of our currently most knowledgeable members.
 
LordTracer said:
Out of Realm Mephisto should probably have a Varies with 2-C/2-A at most (he was out of his realm when he said Odin was his equal iirc).

And yeah, probably.
Click to expand...
He's said he's equal to Odin both in realm and out of realm, so take your pick I guess. But yeah, "up to 2-C/2-A" sounds good.
Antvasima said:
I do not want to upgrade anything without the consent of our currently most knowledgeable members.
Click to expand...
I know, I was just asking what would happen/what the plans where, not what should happen.
 
Okay. No problem.

Mephisto outside of his realm is not nearly as strong as Odin afaIk.
 
Antvasima said:
I personally do not mind scaling Mephisto, Galactus, Dormammu, Satannish. Agamotto, Odin, and Zeus as being of a usually comparable, although not exactly equal, level, but I would prefer input from @Sandman31 @Firestorm808 @LuciferDC099 and @Matthew_Schroeder first.
Click to expand...
The problem is that neither Odin nor Zeus (Much less other Skyfathers) have any feats above universe level or barely multiversal in Odin's case and if we're being honest they are frequently far, far, far weaker than that. Scaling them to 2-A is a meme.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
The problem is that neither Odin nor Zeus (Much less other Skyfathers) have any feats above universe level or barely multiversal in Odin's case and if we're being honest they are frequently far, far, far weaker than that. Scaling them to 2-A is a meme.
Click to expand...
I mean, there have been a couple of feats shown for Odin scaling to a 2-A Yggdrasil all under the same writer, so I don't know how you can say they have 0 feats there.
 
That’s not a proper response, you can’t just say ‘no’ and expect that to mean anything.
 
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