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1-A / High 1-B Feat for DC God Tiers?

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Should it also scale to The Great Evil Beast and The Source?

I agree on the first but I think the later should be Unknown, At least High 1-C
 
My one concern would be that it would probably be best for the Endless to keep their current ratings, with an "At least" replacing "Likely", and a "Possibly 1-A" added afterwards, mainly due to the fact they are drastically inferior to Mother Night, and I wouldn't feel 100% safe completely backwards scaling from Lucifer and the co., as the Endless have been shown to be really nothing to characters in Lucifer's league.

I think the most I can remember is Destiny sort of pissing him off one time, and that was mainly due to something like Lucifer detesting his existence.
 
The Endless are existence itself, while Night, Time, the Demiurgic Archangels (At least the big two, Gabriel is vastly weaker), and The Presence too.

My proposed ratings:

The Presence: 1-A (The Creator God of the DC / Vertigo continuity, immensely above both Michael Demiurgos and Lucifer Morningstar, and likely superior to boundless and undimensioned Mother Night. Limited only by The Overvoid)

Mother Night: 1-A (Is boundless and undimensioned, existing as a complete emptiness devoid of time, space, thoughts, information or any other definition)

Father Time: Likely 1-A (Most likely comparabe to Mother Night)

Michael Demiurgos: Likely 1-A (Often considered the most powerful being in existence with the exception of his father, God / The Presence)

Lucifer Morningstar: Likely 1-A (Relatively equal to his older brother. Feared by The Endless themselves)

The Endless: At least High 1-C, possibly 1-A (The direct children of Night and Time, and possibly somewhat comparable to their existences, though admitedly immensely below them both)

Gabriel Hornblower: Unknown, At least High 1C, possibly 1-A (While stated by the author to be comparable to his siblings Michael and Lucifer, he is portrayed as far below both, and only ever hurt Lucifer when wielding a spear given to him by The Presence) | 1-A (Killed / Gravely injured The Presence)
 
I agree with Matthew's suggestions, and given that the Source seems to mostly be a regular DC Universe, rather than Vertigo, concept, and portrayed at the top of the 11-dimensional Multiversity hierarchy, I also do not think that it should be upgraded.

Ditto for the Spectre. Despite that he once fought Michael, this was before the archangel's much later established full stature, and he has othervise never been remotely portrayed at this scale. It took all the DC heroes combined empowering him to even fight the Anti-Monitor. It seems to be typical Marvel and DC inconsistency.
 
Also, The Spectre who fought Michael was the Unbound Spectre, it doesn't scale to his regular showings, and Michael was also far weaker back then.
 
Exactly. Although it might be useful to provide an explanation in the Spectre's page.
 
So what about Michael exploding his entire body just to create the multiverse? would this affect his rating?
 
However, I suppose that the Great Evil Beast has to scale to the Presence, despite that the Swamp Thing story was technically long before the Sandman and Lucifer.
 
@-BANLK- We probably have to consider that as extreme inconsistency, or plot induced stupidity.
 
Well, Michael's power gives him the capability to create "anything". He could create the DC Multiverse with a handwave. The explosion of his entire was going to evaporate the DC Multiverse, hence why they went to The Void so it wouldn't affect them.
 
Okay. Feel free to add an explanation to his page.
 
Can you provide the reference that describes them as Wave functions?
 
Okay, so will you start to update the above-mentioned profiles now?
 
Okay. Thanks for the help.
 
This however contradicts the presence's meaning, He on this wiki is stated to be tier 1-A, but is stated to be greater then both those of Michael and Lucifer?
 
1-A is a ridiculously wide tier. Just look at the Lovecraft mythos for example. It is populated by immeasurable numbers of 1-A's of vastly different orders of power.
 
Antvasima said:
1-A is a ridiculously wide tier. Just look at the Lovecraft mythos for example. It is populated by immeasurable numbers of 1-A's of vastly different orders of power.
Click to expand...
Ridiculously is a understment more like impossible.
 
I plan on updating Elaine Belloc's profile, and to include her regular Half-Angel form.

The problem I've found is that she's fairly unimpressive, and not very aware of her powers, though she once turned the Dreaming, or at least a realm of the Dreaming, upside down.

I'd put that at Planet level at least.
 
Elaine also has a 4th form, which is the one she got after Lucifer made her a guardian (or watcher) of all things (after they rescued her from the Mansions of silence.

Also it should be noted that Elaine has the ability to open portals to the Void, something Lucifer can't do.(may help to further justify her Outerverse stats).
 
Elaine goes from Half-Angel, to Guardian Spirit, to Demiurge to God. The last two forms qualify for 1-A

The first one she is hardly aware of her powers and can hardly use them, but she is plenty impressive. Her best feat is, again, flipping a realm of the Dreaming upside down. I've seen some people saying it was the entire Dreaming. I need to read the specific issue again to make sure.

The second she shows a lot more, like being the Guardian Spirit of an entire Multiverse, affecting reality through her mood, thoughts and state of health, etc. No doubt about it that Guardian Spirit Elaine is at least Tier 2, possibly even 1. Guardian Spirit Elaine also survived a trip to Yggdrasil, which greatly harmed Lucifer and Michael. Though they went first and could have absorbed a lot of the damage, just like Fenris and the other deities used Christopher to go first and be on the brink of death. She did get blinded by the trip, tho.
 
Perhaps it is best to strictly list the statistics for her Demiurge and God states?
 
Not sure if her guardian form is that powerful.She was practically omnipresence within Lucifers creation but in order to take action she needed to go back to her physical form (when Lucifer ordered her to kick out the immortals that lived on his creation).
 
The damage Yggdrasil does is very inconsistent and I'd rather not apply it. It is described as the center of creation, and the entire multiverse would collapse if it was destroyed, so the damage it causes to those that approach it is impressive, to say the least.

I'd have this:

Tier: Varies. At least 5-B, likely far higher (Though she doesn't fully control nor understand her powers, she proved capable of easily turning a realm of the Dreaming upside down) | Unknown (Is the Guardian Spirit of Lucifer's entire Multiverse) | Likely 1-A (As powerful as Michael Demiurgos) | 1-A (Became the new God, replacing The Presence)
 
I think that seems fine.
 
On topic, I'm realizing now we should probably change the Endless to "Likely/Possibly High 1-B". The reason Mother Night, Lucifer, Michael, and the Presence were made 1-A is for transcending an infinite dimensional existence.

Aren't the Endless quite literally said infinite dimensional existence? High 1-B seems like it would make more sense, as they don't transcend themselves, and characters such as Mother Night are insanely beyond them.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
On topic, I'm realizing now we should probably change the Endless to "Likely/Possibly High 1-B". The reason Mother Night, Lucifer, Michael, and the Presence were made 1-A is for transcending an infinite dimensional existence.
Aren't the Endless quite literally said infinite dimensional existence? High 1-B seems like it would make more sense, as they don't transcend themselves, and characters such as Mother Night are insanely beyond them.
Click to expand...
I am very much with this
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
On topic, I'm realizing now we should probably change the Endless to "Likely/Possibly High 1-B". The reason Mother Night, Lucifer, Michael, and the Presence were made 1-A is for transcending an infinite dimensional existence.
Aren't the Endless quite literally said infinite dimensional existence? High 1-B seems like it would make more sense, as they don't transcend themselves, and characters such as Mother Night are insanely beyond them.
Click to expand...
Okay.
 
When has Vertigo been described as infinite-dimensional? We currently scale the Endless from possibly having similar characteristics to Mother Night.
 
The first picture posted here describes existence, which the Endless embody, as endlessly layered on itself. As Matt stated, they are also described as Wave Functions, which can create Hilbert spaces. Mother Night transcends this, and is unbound by reality and dimensions, hence the 1-A.

The Endless, on the other hand, do not transcend...well, themselves.
 
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