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1-A / High 1-B Feat for DC God Tiers?

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On the subject of 40k and the Chaos Gods... As with Azzy, I believe 1-A would likely be appropriate for the Chaos Gods, given the statements on the nature of the Warp and the nature of the Chaos Gods in relation to it. I don't particularly mind if they are split into Pre/Post-Retcon keys, as that would be appropriate given the differing, older statements on the nature of the Warp.
 
I do not mind upgrading the Chaos Gods either (And yes, I dislike Warhammer, whereas I am neutral about DC).
 
As far as I understood, not according to DarkLK, no, and he is our greatest authority regarding higher power level evaluations.
 
I myself believe in High 1-B DC / Vertigo now, as Tne Void which was defined as being beyond existence was portrayed as a 1-A "space", and in Sandman Night can exist in and embody what is possibly infinite dimensional space.

Again, The Endless are existence themselves, and both Lucifer and Michael are far above them. You can't simply look at The Endless as just deities or abstracts of immense power, no. They are the things that form creation itself. So you can scale them from the cosmology size.
 
Can you elaborate on how the mother of the Endless embodies infinite-dimensional space?

Given how major a deal this would be, I am not going to clear this upgrade, unless you prove either High 1-B or 1-A to DarkLK's satisfaction.
 
Here are more things that I found, don't know if it'll make much of a difference:

http://imgur.com/a/J8chJ

http://imgur.com/a/YV5E5

"Your new cosmos has a border that stretches into infinity. How will you guard it without an army?"

"You use the word "infinity" very glibly, general misran. Have you ever been there?"

"Time and space are extensions of the mind. The Will. Which means that infinity is a purely local phenomenon. You can turn over a stone and find it crawling there. Or you can make it yourself out of whatever materials are at hand."

In this , Lucifer explains that the concepts of time, space and infinity are simply extensions of mind and will, which he embodies as he is the Divine Will which shapes reality.


And ithis sca , it implies that Lucifer's creation was formed from The Void itself.

"Only the demiurgic power, bestowed by God himself, could bring a new cosmos out of the endless, begininngless nothing."

It's all kinda vague, I admit, but I think it is a possibility.
 
@Matthew Okay. I will ask DarkLK again, but would appreciate if you could elaborate about the nature of the mother of the Endless first, so he can take a look at all of the evidence.

@Azathoth I noticed, and have replied.
 
Thank you for replying.

I will be kinda busy today, but I will re-read all of Sandman: Overture (The story in which she and Time appear), and will post the scans
 
I think they should at least be 1-B, they have NO business getting nerfed to High 1-C :(

It makes no sense, especially when going from the Presence ("High 1-C") to Primal Monitor (High 1-A)
 
Well, it is based on the Multiversity structure, but I am personally open for upgrading them, as long as evidence is presented, and DarkLK agrees.
 
Maybe Multiversity Too will have more details on the current DC Cosmology, or future installments of Lucifer Vol 2, although I don't have much hopes for the later, as the characters are written as rather unimpressive.
 
Did you find evidence of the Endless' mother?
 
Yes, I found some details that might be of interest.

Firstly

"Before the beginning was the night. And the night was without boundaries and the night was without end. In the beginning was time. The relentless beat in which things could happen, in which everything could become, dust could coalesce, matter could exist. In that coming together, the universe was possible, all versions of it. In it, people could dream and die. In it, stars burned and flared and went out."

Night and Time predate all creation and are boundless and without end, and are what allow everything to be possible.

Secondly

"It begins, as we all begin, in darkness. There is pain. The pain is unimportant, and I ignore it. There is solitude. The solitude may destroy me. And greater than the pain, greater even than the solitude, there is NOTHING. A vastness of nothing, a place of no light, no information. I am trapped inside a black hole. I am removed from the worlds. I reach out with my mind and I touch nothing and no one: No dreaming minds, no pictures, no emotions, no thought, no life... Time is dissolved in the darkness. I am a child of Time and Night, and this place will prove my end."

This illustrates that Night is disconnected from all things in reality. Being a vastness of nothing, with no light, no information, no dreams, thoughts, life, etc.

Not Night, but interesting.

"Instead, you are here, in my realm: The loom on which the fabric of existence is woven..."

Destiny's realm weaves all of existence.

"This place is above the real. It exists in far realms and in actuality. And we go down. Past things that simultaneously are and are not.
 
Okay. Thank you. I will ask DarkLK again.
 
Okay. Thanks. Does this scale to the Endless, or just to the Presence, Lucifer, and Michael?
 
Would "Possibly 1-A" be acceptable for the Endless, and "Likely 1-A" be acceptable for the Presence, Lucifer, and Michael?
 
I personally would think that solid 1-A for the big 3. But yeah, I agree with possibly for Endless. Keep in mind though, I can be very wrong, Ant. This is just coming from recollection from this site.
 
Yes. I will wait for input from Matthew and DarkLK.
 
To help clear up death being comparable to Micheal and Lucifer just a bit. You have dream out right threatening death and never once batting and eye to threaten his family if they insult him. Where as Lucifer is mention he began to practically write his own will before descending into Hell and we're introduced to Lucifer for the secound time in Sandman. Dream always feared Lucifer and always call him by his surname when in his presence adding the light bringer. While not once questioning to kill his on family, but quickly regretting disrespecting Lucifer when retrieving his mask. The endless are quite weaker than the presence and slightly weaker than Lucifer and Micheal.

Possibly 1-A might be plausible for the endlesses but for the most part I like it simply because most their showings show them weaker than the trio and their are few contradicting feats for it. Also sorry for the long post. If you need scans to futher highlight these details I have sandman scans on my tablet and will be happy to provide if needed.
 
That is not necessary. I have read all of Sandman, even though I do not remember everything.
 
Personally, I'm not sure that some of angels or even the Presence can destroy the Night.

On the other hand Endless are its direct descendants, and probably at least partly have a similar nature. We can build on this.
 
Wouldn't anything the Endless scale to also scale the brothers and the Presence, as they were shown as superior to them?

That said, I can definitely see the Night as 1-A.
 
Yes. The Presence, Lucifer, and Michael would all automatically gain 1-A as well, if the Endless get the rating.
 
Time and Night are vastly superior to The Endless, but Dream also directly stated that besides God, Lucifer is the most powerful being in creation. So we can built on that.
 
I agree.

(However, I think that you quoted the wrong post above.)
 
So, should we start with the upgrades? Mother Night probably also needs a profile in conjunction.
 
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