DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

[XatorNova]

Its...complicated, me and jinx are still trying to figure out exactly how the general verse should be scaled, because there are arguments for both stars and attack points being used as their actual stats, but either way everything would upscale from stuff like Galaxy-Eyes Cloudragon, a 1 star monster with only 100 attack points which is the size of a galaxy

Maybe it would be worth making exceptions? Galaxy-Eyes Clouddragon is likely an outlier, especially since it belongs to the Galaxy-Eyes archetype. I'm saying this because the logical step without exceptions would be scaling Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon and Dragon Master Knight to the cosmology, since Horakhty is also a 12-star monster

 

[Doggo]

Haven't they done this two person research method for most episodes, including ones with lots of material line Hulk vs Godzilla?

No. They hired a lot of people for Hulk vs Godzilla, mostly for Godzilla's side of research and analysis

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

I keep seeing this stuff, but, unless there's more context I don't know about (which is likely since I don't know much about Kamen Rider), this isn't 11-D by our standards. This sounds like the compactified dimensions in string theory, which are essentially infinitesimally small, and are not the equivalent of regular higher dimensions (I'm pretty sure by our standards, it's just slightly better 4-D).

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

No. They hired a lot of people for Hulk vs Godzilla, mostly for Godzilla's side of research and analysis

I see; I didn't know that.

 

[Doggo]

his isn't 11-D by our standards. This sounds like the compactified dimensions in string theory, which are essentially infinitesimally small, and are not the equivalent of regular higher dimensions (I'm pretty sure by our standards, it's just slightly better 4-D).

Honkai got nerfed once because of this

 

[Doggo]

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Maybe it would be worth making exceptions? Galaxy-Eyes Clouddragon is likely an outlier, especially since it belongs to the Galaxy-Eyes archetype. I'm saying this because the logical step without exceptions would be scaling Blue Eyes Ultimate Dragon and Dragon Master Knight to the cosmology, since Horakhty is also a 12-star monster

The funny thing is it wouldnt even be an outlier, several of the Yang Zing are 1 star, as well as Winged Kuriboh

As for the second half, not exactly. Horakhty is the top of the verse, no one scales to her. BEUD and DMK would scale above the gods but below her

 

[BERRIES555]

I keep seeing this stuff, but, unless there's more context I don't know about (which is likely since I don't know much about Kamen Rider), this isn't 11-D by our standards. This sounds like the compactified dimensions in string theory, which are essentially infinitesimally small, and are not the equivalent of regular higher dimensions (I'm pretty sure by our standards, it's just slightly better 4-D).

We’re still trying to figure it out, the statement isn’t even a week old yet so we’re expecting more context. Rider/Toku’s dimensions do work with spacial transcendence tho, Zeztz specifically mentions to work beyond 5-D space and 11-D spaces has been mentioned throughout Toku’s 50+ year history before.

11-D isn’t even the highest we’re expecting from Zeztz

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

We’re still trying to figure it out, the statement isn’t even a week old yet so we’re expecting more context. Rider/Toku’s dimensions do work with spacial transcendence tho, Zeztz specifically mentions to work beyond 5-D space and 11-D spaces has been mentioned throughout Toku’s 50+ year history before.

11-D isn’t even the highest we’re expecting from Zeztz

Something something "Exdream can go into a Dream within a Dream". Something something "totally High 1-A".

 

[Fireld]

1. Either energy or gas depending on the context
2. Correct

thanks

It was actually a different guy I was thinking about. I have the clop but it's an mp4 and I'd have to upload it somewhere to send it here and I lazy...

Welp, time I lend you some Haki on this one

Would prefer Chun Li over King

 

[Epiccheev]

Thatsatheory Yuji vs Chainscaling Man, who wins?

 

[BERRIES555]

Something something "Exdream can go into a Dream within a Dream". Something something "totally High 1-A".

Shh, let me wank my goats

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Thatsatheory Yuji vs Chainscaling Man, who wins?

Thatsatheory Yuji because we can wank him higher than Chainscaling Man.

 

[Doggo]

Denji dreamt the story so he is 1-A or smt cuz R>F fr

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

Honkai got nerfed once because of this

Oh yeah, I remember that. (Isn't it still nerfed right now)?

We’re still trying to figure it out, the statement isn’t even a week old yet so we’re expecting more context.

That's fair.

Rider/Toku’s dimensions do work with spacial transcendence tho, Zeztz specifically mentions to work beyond 5-D space and 11-D spaces has been mentioned throughout Toku’s 50+ year history before.

I'm not contesting that; I'm just contesting that this statement is properly 11-D with the information I have.

11-D isn’t even the highest we’re expecting from Zeztz

That's fair.

Denji dreamt the story so he is 1-A or smt cuz R>F fr

True!

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

No. They hired a lot of people for Hulk vs Godzilla, mostly for Godzilla's side of research and analysis

They ****** up some things in Hulkzilla (namely they assumed Banner could solve the Impossible Equation or reach through the Singular Point...they also ignored multiversal+ statements from one of those Godzilla toys or whatever). Also I disagree with Hulkzilla obviously. Here is my stance:
Hulk doesn't have the resistances to Ultima's hax (active evidence against it plus some of the arguments SSSSSSUUUCCCKKKKKK), Hulk absolutely does not have a single 1-A layer and he wouldn't scale to it anyway, which means Ultima could just port to TOAA and vaporize him (I have a thing where Marvel doesn't have anything abstract in it and is just like a virtual reality where the abstract laws are just physically in the computer bits that could be destroyed by a reality warper). Actually this is true of any real multiversal work like Warhammer or Downstreamers (Kill TOAA argument, I mean).
Good battle though. Godzilla's loss is thematic. Arguably he should lose again to Ultraman if he ever comes back on the show.

 

[Doggo]

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

Godzilla should lose to Ultraman. I am SERIOUS!
JOHN MCKAIJU VS JOHN MCBEATKAIJUUP
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

 

[TMaakkonen]

Go say Goji Ultima beats Hulk but loses to Ultraman in Reddit :V

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

Go say Goji Ultima beats Hulk but loses to Ultraman in Reddit :V

already was on reddit. found it disappointing. you could call me powerscalersaitama with how i can't ******* find someone who can refute the tour de force. Also I despise reddit for multiple non powerscaling reasons and would prefer it be shut down tbh.
anyway no death battle's narrative justifications for who would win are beautiful. they're so ******* based. 'Guts beats guys stronger than him every day!' >>>>>>>>>>>>>> any calc, any cosmology.
****. Ultraman vs Godzilla now.

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

They ****** up some things in Hulkzilla (namely they assumed Banner could solve the Impossible Equation or reach through the Singular Point...they also ignored multiversal+ statements from one of those Godzilla toys or whatever). Also I disagree with Hulkzilla obviously. Here is my stance:
Hulk doesn't have the resistances to Ultima's hax (active evidence against it plus some of the arguments SSSSSSUUUCCCKKKKKK), Hulk absolutely does not have a single 1-A layer and he wouldn't scale to it anyway, which means Ultima could just port to TOAA and vaporize him (I have a thing where Marvel doesn't have anything abstract in it and is just like a virtual reality where the abstract laws are just physically in the computer bits that could be destroyed by a reality warper). Actually this is true of any real multiversal work like Warhammer or Downstreamers (Kill TOAA argument, I mean).
Good battle though. Godzilla's loss is thematic. Arguably he should lose again to Ultraman if he ever comes back on the show.

I pissed off a Doom fan cause they pulled the “doom guy is always stronger than whoever he’s fighting” and then just went “SMT guys always kill guys who are stronger than them”

 

[TMaakkonen]

Doom Slayer is a Gogmagog Strategize victim.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Trevenant vs Maokai

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

Doom Slayer is a Gogmagog Strategize victim.

I’ll bear Doom Slayer, let me at em coach

 

[Bigdongus]

I can’t prove it, but everything we know about the behind the scenes of DB leads me to believe there’s a toxic positivity thing going on there. Where no one criticizes others on their work.

Luis jokingly called grumind a “5/10” as if that was an absurd claim. It’s like no one told him how bad it looked.

“Yeah but we rigged minions face!”
And then proceeded to not do anything with said face.

It doesn’t make sense at all, just have people do what they’re good at and stop purposefully putting animators on fights their talents aren’t suited for. Don’t put lots of effort into something you won’t use.

 

[TMaakkonen]

Bruh we know DB has toxic positivity. Again we can see Reddit lmao

 

[Bigdongus]

Bruh we know DB has toxic positivity. Again we can see Reddit lmao

I mean behind the scenes between employees.

 

[TMaakkonen]

I mean behind the scenes between employees.

Oh that way.

Hmm I do wonder. Ben used to animate fights. So I feel like he appreciates any animation. If you think about, animation itself is hard, so almost any animation can be neat. And tbh, GruMegamind isnt thaaaat bad.

But as said elsewhere, people actually paid money this time. No matter how technically interesting stuff GruMegamind has, they should put bit more effort.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

What was the goal for it again? Let alone at what values they gave it as thanks?

I doubt they had pocket money or anything to cover for not hitting the goal years ago

 

[Tipper17]

I can’t prove it, but everything we know about the behind the scenes of DB leads me to believe there’s a toxic positivity thing going on there. Where no one criticizes others on their work.

Luis jokingly called grumind a “5/10” as if that was an absurd claim. It’s like no one told him how bad it looked.

“Yeah but we rigged minions face!”
And then proceeded to not do anything with said face.

It doesn’t make sense at all, just have people do what they’re good at and stop purposefully putting animators on fights their talents aren’t suited for. Don’t put lots of effort into something you won’t use.

May overthink there chief, Idk if its but really speaking Grumind was mainly mid than outright ugly.
Grumind didn't have alot of Assests available for them to use to utilize in 3D format and we know Sprites would've been far worse in that department.
Could've pushed it back further to work on it more would've helped but really the biggest issues comes down to pacing.

The real issue DB doesn't bother to tell us behind the scenes stuff.

Oh that way.

Hmm I do wonder. Ben used to animate fights. So I feel like he appreciates any animation. If you think about, animation itself is hard, so almost any animation can be neat. And tbh, GruMegamind isnt thaaaat bad.

But as said elsewhere, people actually paid money this time. No matter how technically interesting stuff GruMegamind has, they should put bit more effort.

idk about more effort i doubt the animators were half assing shit here thats on the writer's and crew

 

[TMaakkonen]

idk about more effort i doubt the animators were half assing shit here thats on the writer's and crew

Shit, I meant more time and budget. Even if they need to spread between epidodes, GruMegamind was in hindsight difficult ep to animate. So it could have used more time.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Are they actually satisfied with the result of some of these matches? In animation that is, let alone the writing

 

[TMaakkonen]

Iirc there is hearsay from Discord server that KratosAsura production was bad.

 

[Tipper17]

Iirc there is hearsay from Discord server that KratosAsura production was bad.

Wouldn't shock me given the fuckery with the storyboards and having one guy trying animate a fight he wasn't suited for

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Tbf DA just went too differently from the storyboard

Also I said it before and will again, Asura vs Kratos outside of the whole lore vs feats debacle, wasnt gonna work out anyway, its literally a guy mostly just punching vs one who uses many weapons too besides punching, you can only do so much with that for animation

Kratos should have fought someone that could match all these and was in a similar situation where lore gives them stats

 

[TMaakkonen]

KratosDante for next year, trust.

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

Tbf DA just went too differently from the storyboard

Also I said it before and will again, Asura vs Kratos outside of the whole lore vs feats debacle, wasnt gonna work out anyway, its literally a guy mostly just punching vs one who uses many weapons too besides punching, you can only do so much with that for animation

Kratos should have fought someone that could match all these and was in a similar situation where lore gives them stats

Kratos is a fraud anyway.
He gets insta-pasted by Raditz because his lore doesn't say what people think he says. Asura is too much for him.
Also serves as a neat debunk of 'consensus determines truth'. Consensus is that Kratos gets his shit rocked by Asura. Guess VS wiki is wrong because it's outnumbered. Or does VS wiki have a special consensus that is the only one that matters.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

 

[DaReaperMan]

Kratos is a fraud anyway.
He gets insta-pasted by Raditz because his lore doesn't say what people think he says. Asura is too much for him.

You see, it's things like this that make me chuckle because the Primordials literally punch universes into existence on screen.

Also, as a great meme once said...

Unless you mute every game you play and don't have the subtitles on, you're technically using lore scaling. Every time. Universal Asura? Yeah? That comes from lore scaling. And that's coming from someone who unconditionally buys Uni Asura lmfao

Also serves as a neat debunk of 'consensus determines truth'. Consensus is that Kratos gets his shit rocked by Asura. Guess VS wiki is wrong because it's outnumbered. Or does VS wiki have a special consensus that is the only one that matters.

Except... they gotta come here for that. We don't take off-site blogs or off-site videos. You gotta make yer own points in a CRT to be reviewed. The funny thing about "consensus" is that it depends on both the people and place, because things change from one medium or another. Some people think every Nasuverse Servant is 1-A.

And before you say it: No, I don't actually buy tier 1 GoW. I buy 9 Universe GoW. I don't agree with half the tierings on this wiki, generally, unless someone super downgrades or super upgrades something, most people follow the line of "Wank, but make it believable wank."

Other than that the beautiful thing about this hobby is that everyone has their own truths and 9/10 those are correct, scaling is a bunch of opinions hodgepodging and claiming anything is uncontestable beyond like "The Human Torch can light himself on fire" is just silly.

 

[Kellex]

Kratos is a fraud anyway.
He gets insta-pasted by Raditz because his lore doesn't say what people think he says. Asura is too much for him.
Also serves as a neat debunk of 'consensus determines truth'. Consensus is that Kratos gets his shit rocked by Asura. Guess VS wiki is wrong because it's outnumbered. Or does VS wiki have a special consensus that is the only one that matters.

What is it talking about in the link? I don't speak the language.