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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

well on the other hand the perosn with the soul based powers kit just becomes useless
The point is that soul attacks should have a valid target, for example, If the opponent has a soul then soul hax works. If the opponent genuinely lacks a soul then the soul targeting effect should not apply and the character would have to rely on AP or other abilities instead. That is just how conditional hax should work.
 
In JJK, the body and soul are one and the same. This has been stated a multitude of times. In CSM, devils reincarnate, which suggests that theres some kind of spiritual reasoning for them to reincarnate in the first place. And the Ghost the Devil kind of proves souls exist in CSM.
I do not get how the soul and body being the same in JJK contributes to this point. That is a JJK specific mechanic and not a CSM mechanic.

As for Devils reincarnating, that does not automatically prove a soul based system either. Devils in Chainsaw Man are fear and concept based and their reincarnation is part of Devil physiology. It does not prove they reincarnate because of souls. The Ghost Devil also does not prove souls exist in CSM. The Ghost Devil exists because ghosts are a concept or "name". Devils are born from concepts, so the Ghost Devil existing as a concept does not prove that actual souls or ghosts exist.
Devils are explicitly stated to be physical concepts. Other than vibes, what about "souls" indicates that? And that is not how verse equalization works. You actually need something to equalize. V.E only works when two verses have similar supernatural systems or mechanics that can reasonably be treated as equivalent. You cannot just say "Hey! this verse has souls and this verse has Devils so they must be equalized!" when they do not function the same way. Souls are usually the spiritual essence of a living being, while Devils in Chainsaw Man are beings born from concepts. Those are completely different mechanics unless the verse gives us a reason to connect them. There is nothing in Chainsaw Man that would logically be capable of being equalized to souls.
 
I do not get how the soul and body being the same in JJK contributes to this point. That is a JJK specific mechanic and not a CSM mechanic.

As for Devils reincarnating, that does not automatically prove a soul based system either. Devils in Chainsaw Man are fear and concept based and their reincarnation is part of Devil physiology. It does not prove they reincarnate because of souls. The Ghost Devil also does not prove souls exist in CSM. The Ghost Devil exists because ghosts are a concept or "name". Devils are born from concepts, so the Ghost Devil existing as a concept does not prove that actual souls or ghosts exist.
Yeaaaaaah no. I don’t really agree with this take at all. Just because JJK has its own specific explanation for souls and the body doesn’t mean CSM suddenly has zero soul-related mechanics. CSM constantly treats identity and existence as something beyond just the physical body. Devils die, go to Hell, come back to Earth, and still maintain continuity of self through reincarnation. That’s way more than just “a concept respawned.” There’s clearly some kind of metaphysical existence tied to them.

Angel Devil is another huge example. His entire power revolves around lifespan and life essence. He literally takes years off people and converts them into weapons. That is basically spiritual/life energy regardless of what label you put on it. Then there’s Pochita’s erasure ability, which honestly destroys the “no souls” argument by itself. He doesn’t just kill Devils, he erases their existence and concept entirely. If Devils were only concepts with no deeper metaphysical aspect, erasure would not be treated as this horrifying permanent thing because the fear would eventually just recreate them anyway.

The Ghost Devil argument is weak too. Devils are born from humanity’s fears of things they perceive as real or existentially meaningful. So the existence of the Ghost Devil absolutely supports the idea that souls/spirits exist as an actual in-universe phenomenon beyond just “it’s a name.” Same with the Future Devil representing an actual metaphysical force instead of just a random word people are scared of.

And realistically, if Death Battle covers this, which they most likely will, they’re almost definitely gonna use functional equivalence like they always do. A verse does not need to literally stop and say “this is a soul” for soul interaction to obviously exist when it already has reincarnation, life essence manipulation, metaphysical existence, and conceptual erasure.
 
Yeaaaaaah no. I don’t really agree with this take at all. Just because JJK has its own specific explanation for souls and the body doesn’t mean CSM suddenly has zero soul-related mechanics. CSM constantly treats identity and existence as something beyond just the physical body. Devils die, go to Hell, come back to Earth, and still maintain continuity of self through reincarnation. That’s way more than just “a concept respawned.” There’s clearly some kind of metaphysical existence tied to them.
I am not denying that Devils have supernatural or metaphysical mechanics as they obviously do. They are fear and concept based beings who reincarnate between Earth and Hell. But that alone does not prove that souls are involved. Devils keeping some form of continuity after death can be explained through Devil physiology and their connection to the fear or concept they embody. It does not need to be a soul unless the series actually says or shows that souls are the thing being transferred.

Losing memories between incarnations can just be part of the Devil reincarnation cycle considering a character having identity continuity during their reincarnation or as you say, metaphysical existence, does not automatically mean they have a soul based system either.
Angel Devil is another huge example. His entire power revolves around lifespan and life essence. He literally takes years off people and converts them into weapons. That is basically spiritual/life energy regardless of what label you put on it. Then there’s Pochita’s erasure ability, which honestly destroys the “no souls” argument by itself. He doesn’t just kill Devils, he erases their existence and concept entirely. If Devils were only concepts with no deeper metaphysical aspect, erasure would not be treated as this horrifying permanent thing because the fear would eventually just recreate them anyway.
There is one primary thing that you are not getting here are that devils are not soul based beings but rather name and concept based beings. Makima directly explains that all Devils are born with a name and the more that name is feared the more powerful the Devil becomes. So fear affects a Devil's strength but the Devil itself is tied to its name or concept.

An example here would be the Angel Devil. The idea of angels began to exist at some point in human history and once the Angel name or concept existed, the Angel Devil could exist as a Devil tied to that concept. Like every other Devil, his powers and abilities correlate with his name or concept. In the Angel Devil's case, his lifespan ability likely comes from the association angels have with death, divine judgment, heaven and the end of a person's life. Angels are often connected to ideas like guiding people after death, divine punishment and life and death symbolism. So him taking lifespan and turning it into weapons can be explained through the angel concept without needing to assume souls are involved.

Also, I have no idea why Pochita's ability is being brought up as evidence for souls. Pochita's ability has nothing to do with Soul Manipulation since it is conceptual erasure and existence erasure through consuming Devils and erasing their names and concepts. There is no stated soul mechanic involved.
The Ghost Devil argument is weak too. Devils are born from humanity’s fears of things they perceive as real or existentially meaningful. So the existence of the Ghost Devil absolutely supports the idea that souls/spirits exist as an actual in-universe phenomenon beyond just “it’s a name.” Same with the Future Devil representing an actual metaphysical force instead of just a random word people are scared of.
Genuinely what are you talking about? Zombies do not physically exist in CSM but the Zombie Devil exists because "zombies" exist as a concept or name that people can fear.

As I said above all Devils are born with a name and the more that name is feared, the stronger the Devil becomes. That does not mean humans need to believe the thing literally exists in universe. It means the name or concept has to exist and be feared.

The Ghost Devil existing does not automatically prove that actual ghosts or souls exist in CSM at all. It proves that "ghosts" exist as a feared concept or name. If you want to claim Devils can only exist from things humans believe are real, then you would need actual proof of that, because the series itself frames Devils around names, concepts and fear but not confirmed existence.
And realistically, if Death Battle covers this, which they most likely will, they’re almost definitely gonna use functional equivalence like they always do. A verse does not need to literally stop and say “this is a soul” for soul interaction to obviously exist when it already has reincarnation, life essence manipulation, metaphysical existence, and conceptual erasure.
They will likely claim he has a soul via the Aging Devil arc. But in those scenes they will probably use it to say he has some sort of resistance since despite being separated, Denji and Pochita could still function and regenerate at full throttle. That would be a clear misinterpretation of what is actually happening considering it is an organic bond, but it is Death Battle so.
 
whats the ap gap between the too. Speed gap dosent matter much imo because domain expansion
AP gap on this wiki is a 29x difference in strength.

Pochita (Denji-Man): City level, 15.94 Megatons of TNT
VS
Modulo Yuji
(Assumed to be physically on par with Gojo and Sukuna): Large Town level+, 550 Kilotons of TNT

15.94 Megatons = 15,940 Kilotons
15,940 / 550 = 29x

Combat speed wise, using Sukuna's EMW feat, it is a 10x speed difference.

Pochita (Denji-Man): FTL, 1.25c
VS
Modulo Yuji
(Assumed to be physically on par with Gojo and Sukuna): Relativistic, 0.12c

1.25c / 0.12c = 10x
 
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AP gap on this wiki is a 29x difference in strength.

Pochita (Denji-Man): City level, 15.94 Megatons of TNT
VS
Modulo Yuji
(Assumed to be physically on par with Gojo and Sukuna): Large Town level+, 550 Kilotons of TNT

15.94 Megatons = 15,940 Kilotons
15,940 / 550 = 29x

Combat speed wise, using Sukuna’s EMW feat, it is a 10x speed difference.

Pochita (Denji-Man): FTL, 1.25c
VS
Modulo Yuji
(Assumed to be physically on par with Gojo and Sukuna): Relativistic, 0.12c

1.25c / 0.12c = 10x
He should scale to Dabura's Island level stuff, no?
 
Not going read all that. Probably bias per usual.
If you are not going to read the argument then you should not dismiss it as bias.

I gave a direct explanation for why souls do not exist in CSM. If you disagree, then address the point instead of brushing it off. Just because I am your opposition does not mean I am biased. I believe myself to be a fair person, and I am sharing my thoughts and opinions as anyone else would.

You should re-evaluate why you choose to have a discussion with someone if your just going to brush off their reasoning as "bias" because they are not in agreement with your stance.
 
damn so Yuji's at big disadavantage on everything here.
Pretty much. He can close the gap with soul shenanigans, but I already stated my, ahem, unbiased interpretation of souls not existing within CSM at the very least. But Peter does speak the truth when it comes to Death Battle's involvement with them. They will most likely count that Denji has a soul. Even then though they might have a few tricky interpretations on top of that due to the Aging Devil arc.
They will likely claim he has a soul via the Aging Devil arc. But in those scenes they will probably use it to say he has some sort of resistance since despite being separated, Denji and Pochita could still function and regenerate at full throttle. That would be a clear misinterpretation of what is actually happening considering it is an organic bond, but it is Death Battle so.
 
damn so Yuji's at big disadavantage on everything here.
No. He's not. 🤦🏿‍♂️. He's vastly above all the every in JJK and is on par with Dabura, who is scaleable to Sukuna, that puts his ap range, like I said in the mountain to Island range. And Flag Spear feat is Rel+, don't know why people are using that wanked version.
 
No. He's not. 🤦🏿‍♂️. He's vastly above all the every in JJK and is on par with Dabura, who is scaleable to Sukuna, that puts his ap range, like I said in the mountain to Island range. And Flag Spear feat is Rel+, don't know why people are using that wanked version.
I guess people can just say anything here and as long as the vibes are cool enough everyone will just run with it lmao. If I even try to prove against your statement im just going to be called biased, so there really is no point in a discussion here is there. 😭
 
I guess people can just say anything here and as long as the vibes are cool enough everyone will just run with it lmao. If I even try to prove against your statement im just going to be called biased, so there really is no point in a discussion here is there. 😭
You've been commenting nothing but crap since yesterday, all Ive read from your comments is pure headcanon and misinterpretation, you haven't proved anything Jesus Christ, please stop embarrassing yourself smh 🤦🏿. And yeah, theres nothing else to discuss smh
 
ye
ca

n u summarzie the thread
s I can.

Dabura's feat was accepted for himself and what was rejected was scaling other characters to that exact feat. The reason is that "Dabura is treated as Sukuna level" is too vague. Being a similar threat does not automatically mean identical AP, durability, speed or K.E. (stats in general), It could just refer to overall danger in their abilities, hax and such. To scale others they would need direct proof that they can tank / clash with that specific near light movement feat. Since the evidence was mostly a broad narrative comparison, the backscaling was rejected.
 
You've been commenting nothing but crap since yesterday, all Ive read from your comments is pure headcanon and misinterpretation, you haven't proved anything Jesus Christ, please stop embarrassing yourself smh 🤦🏿. And yeah, theres nothing else to discuss smh
Say what? When was anything I said headcanon? Anything I have stated is basic stuff already on the profiles or within general Devil physiology. How am I embarrassing myself? Get a grip, dude. I was never being direct or disrespectful to you like this at all.

Have you ever stopped to think, maybe instead of the guy who was been working on VSBW CSM for years, maybe, just maybe you are the one who could be misunderstanding things?
 
Say what? When was anything I said headcanon? Anything I have stated is basic stuff already on the profiles or within general Devil physiology. How am I embarrassing myself? Get a grip, dude. I was never being direct or disrespectful to you like this at all.

Have you ever stopped to think, maybe instead of the guy who was been working on VSBW CSM for years, maybe, just maybe you are the one who could be misunderstanding things?
Yeah, im done. Have a nice day fam.
 
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