DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

[TMaakkonen]

Under any other circumstance Id agree with not being ok with Kratos scaling, but the community sucks dick for everyone else so it pisses me off.

These are the big loophole rules in VS:

• If Character A is comparable to Character B, then there is no problem scaling them
• If feats/scaling/lore is valid, Character A can be as strong as X, without having need to ever actually destroy X
• Even if there are some developer/creator statements that are against it, if a story/lore features feats, they can be used regardless of developers/creators thinking those feats shouldnt be that strong

And badaboom, these rules are used for everyone no problem but its problem for Kratos because of reasons which should be a problem for everyone else too. And Id happily take the lowball route but nooooo everyone wanks everyone else and its mostly ignored in DB community.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

And badaboom, these rules are used for everyone no problem but its problem for Kratos because of reasons which should be a problem for everyone else too. And Id happily take the lowball route but nooooo everyone wanks everyone else and its mostly ignored in DB community.

Consistency and Fairness comes between agenda. To maintain agenda I have to wank my verse and downplay yours even if they use same logic.

 

[Joycap]

Consistency and Fairness comes between agenda. To maintain agenda I have to wank my verse and downplay yours even if they use same logic.

Idk if this comes of as self-agrandizing, but I sort of do the opposite with Xeno and a lot of other verses. This is why I turned around a few times and said 'anything 4D/5D+ is basically hax, and how many infinities that entails otherwise is irrelevant to me' + 'how characteristically is this applied?'. Xenoblade especially has a lot of thing that are taken stupidly out of context (lower tiers scaled to Shulk's Uni bust with Monado III, statements about the Conduit, 'muh infinite speed' and the makeup of the Endless Now etc.) and we Xenoblade fans (outside of VS forums, at least) are quick to point that out.

This is also why I've joked about SMT verse nerfs before. 90% of that wank cosmology blog is just a gish-gallop talking in circles.

 

[TMaakkonen]

Looking at recent DB trends, SMT might only "lolstatsequal" vs opponents if they have to talk about Outer stuff for both so there is that.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

People who lowball other verses or wank theirs just to spite can go to hell, especially if they are garbage individuals too

 

[ZeNoviceArtist]

 

[Thunderman101]

Don't look at me buddy. I've been consistent with my distaste for so called "lore" scaling for years. I've been against all the examples you've brought up in this thread and more. I'm a big comic fan but every time DB says that a street level character that can be threatened by guns has FTL or nanosecond reactions my eyes just roll into the back of my head.

I mean if it happens a consecutive amount of times it’s probably not an outlier….

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Literally, there is a point where if you are told something a bunch of times, its meant to convey something, this unwritten rule you need visuals to accept something is ridiculous

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

Thoughts on ippo makunouchi vs joe yabuki?

 

[Thunderman101]

Thoughts on ippo makunouchi vs joe yabuki?

Sounds good at a glance as someone who’s look at both series

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

I find it funny this fight has a semi official winner, but I think it’s still worth doing since it was just a computer simulation

 

[Thunderman101]

I feel like hou can argue for ftl street tiers, my main issue with blade vs Buffy is thst blades mist form literally counters everything she can do, and he can turn himself partially solid so he can attack and evade. They argue that the new vampires have also used this abilities but the new vampires scale below blades mist due it it being far far faster, draculas mist was so slow that he may as well been holding a sign saying come hit me. Combine that with 2 of Buffy’s scythe feats being debunked, hee still struggling to fight people who are barley 150 years old (spike), and marvel cosmology bullshit and blade surviving attacks and blitzing top tiers like Hyperion (albeit it was weakened one), I’ve got him winning this

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Thoughts on ippo makunouchi vs joe yabuki?

PEAKKKKKKKK

But for real though, it’s literally the best matchup for both characters the creator of Ippo was literally inspired by Ashita no Joe. This absolutely has to be a matchup

 

[DaReaperMan]

Literally, there is a point where if you are told something a bunch of times, its meant to convey something, this unwritten rule you need visuals to accept something is ridiculous

Holy shit BD saying something I agree with wholeheartedly. Twice. In one page.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

I find it funny this fight has a semi official winner, but I think it’s still worth doing since it was just a computer simulation

From what I seen, they technically didn’t really use all of Joe’s abilities so it shouldn’t really be considered into the equation

 

[Thunderman101]

To top it off she has been overwhelmed with mist before, the Buffy wiki states Buffy and the Scoobies are overwhelmed by Vicki's forces, who are tougher to stake and capable of turning into mist, panthers, and giant bats. Buffy blames herself for an imminent defeat, until the timely arrival of Faith, Giles, Kennedy, Holly, and Leah in the fight. Blade can keep up with those who have legit super speed, could tag cosmic ghost rider WHILE HE WAS ON HIS BIKE, and can smell magic so he’d immedeatly know the scythe was dangerous

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

From what I seen, they technically didn’t really use all of Joe’s abilities so it shouldn’t really be considered into the equation

I think at the very least it will get black box mentioned

 

[Thunderman101]

Death battle please I beg of you give goku another fight other than superman

 

[DaReaperMan]

Death Battle please give Goku a fourth fight he loses

 

[Thunderman101]

Death Battle please give Goku a fourth fight he loses

All I’m say saying is we did not need goku vs super man 3 times

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Holy shit BD saying something I agree with wholeheartedly. Twice. In one page.

When did you agree 2 diff times...

 

[ZeNoviceArtist]

Death battle please I beg of you give goku another fight other than superman

Goku vs Sentry

 

[ByArrow]

I feel like hou can argue for ftl street tiers, my main issue with blade vs Buffy is thst blades mist form literally counters everything she can do

While in that form, he cannot attack Buffy; if he enters Buffy, Buffy will expel him from her body.

, and he can turn himself partially solid so he can attack and evade.

Buffy has fought vampires capable of doing this before. And when Blade turns solid to attack Buffy, he will be vulnerable to being shot by Buffy.

They argue that the new vampires have also used this abilities but the new vampires scale below blades mist due it it being far far faster, draculas mist was so slow that he may as well been holding a sign saying come hit me. Combine that with 2 of Buffy’s scythe feats being debunked, hee still struggling to fight people who are barley 150 years old (spike),

The person you underestimated for being 150 years old is someone who killed two slayer with thousands of years of experience and skill and was able to keep up with Illyria.

and marvel cosmology bullshit and blade surviving attacks and blitzing top tiers like Hyperion (albeit it was weakened one), I’ve got him winning this

Buffy also took a hit from the top tier and survived. But these are outliers.

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

Death Battle please give Goku a fourth fight he loses

 

[TMaakkonen]

Hedgehog L pity win to Goku coming up :V

 

[Tipper17]

To be fair for this one, DB just never tells anyone who doesn't pay them to be in the Discord anything about behind the scenes stuff still until way after the fact. The only recent exception I can think of is the Kratos vs Asura storyboards but that felt more like damage control than anything due to how controversial that episode was. Literally every time we learn about some behind the scenes info or some future info its because someone bothered to screencap a statement made in the Discord. When the vast majority of your fanbase literally cannot see your explanations then what do you expect?

Even the Q&As are locked behind a paywall. You can't go "you guys have no idea what goes on during the making of an episode" while also paywalling the ability to learn said info.

I do feel DB has to tell us at some point what goes behind the scenes for an episode to have the audience understand what's goes on

Literally, there is a point where if you are told something a bunch of times, its meant to convey something, this unwritten rule you need visuals to accept something is ridiculous

Visuals make things lot easier to buy and avoid constant head aches over x y z being some form of cosmic level

Obv folks gonna be picky over it n be biss for there favs over it but that's how it be
The only reason why Kratos lore was a big deal because he fought feats man

If he fought someone like Dante or Slayer folks would be more open to it

 

[Thunderman101]

While in that form, he cannot attack Buffy; if he enters Buffy, Buffy will expel him from her body.

Buffy has fought vampires capable of doing this before. And when Blade turns solid to attack Buffy, he will be vulnerable to being shot by Buffy.

The person you underestimated for being 150 years old is someone who killed two slayer with thousands of years of experience and skill and was able to keep up with Illyria.

Buffy also took a hit from the top tier and survived. But these are outliers.

Ok for the first point you just strawmanned me, I never said blade was goj by to enter Buffy’s body. He has quite literally picked up people in that form mate


I said partially solid, he can literally turn his arm solid and attack with just his sword while the rest of his body is fine, this is excluding the fact that he has a major speed advantage in this form

Blade has also fought people with thousands of years of experience like Kara, Dracula and Zatharos.


There also the fact the adamantium odatchi scales above and breaks the scythe due to marvel cosmology bullshit, and even if you don’t buy the odachi he still has justicar. If you composite hik from the video games (don’t even complain about video game stuff Buffy gets her gorgon spears), he has several stat multipliers to make th e speed game even worse, yiu can get buffy to 0.89c while you can get blade to 1.49c. It’s also not an outlier as he has taken she hulks gamma bombs and been thrown by the hulj

 

[Thunderman101]

Ok for the first point you just strawmanned me, I never said blade was goj by to enter Buffy’s body.


I said partially solid, he can literally turn his arm solid and attack with just his sword while the rest of his body is fine, this is excluding the fact that he has a major speed advantage in this form

Blade has also fought people with thousands of years of experience like Kara, Dracula and Zatharos.


There also the fact the adamantium odatchi scales above and breaks the scythe due to marvel cosmology bullshit, and even if you don’t buy the odachi he still has justicar. If you composite hik from the video games (don’t even complain about video game stuff Buffy gets her gorgon spears), he has several stat multipliers to make th e speed game even worse, yiu can get buffy to 0.89c while you can get blade to 1.49c. It’s also not an outlier as he has taken she hulks gamma bombs and been thrown by the hulj

And I provided scans of Buffy being overwhelmed, yes she fought Dracula whk can turn into mist but he was moving so slow and it was so obvious where he was gonna reform he may as well have been holding a red flashing sign

 

[Fezzih_007]

Death Battle please give Goku a fourth fight he loses

The hate mentality... Too bad he wins against most of his opponents, a 4-0 record would be embarassing.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Visuals make things lot easier to buy and avoid constant head aches over x y z being some form of cosmic level

Obv folks gonna be picky over it n be biss for there favs over it but that's how it be
The only reason why Kratos lore was a big deal because he fought feats man

If he fought someone like Dante or Slayer folks would be more open to it

Honestly if people need visuals to accept something telling them 100 times a character is universal, thats a you problem, these people are imbeciles and stupid, cant describe them any other way

 

[TMaakkonen]

And again, they dont need visuals for everyone else. How many universal characters in DB have actually busted an uni? Very few.

 

[DaReaperMan]

And again, they dont need visuals for everyone else. How many universal characters in DB have actually busted an uni? Very few.

Even Beerus and his dipshit brother didn't! They just said they were going to!

 

[Kontororou]

Death battle please I beg of you give goku another fight other than superman

SSJ5 vs Mewthree my beloved

 

[RiloKileyFan]

To be fair for this one, DB just never tells anyone who doesn't pay them to be in the Discord anything about behind the scenes stuff still until way after the fact. The only recent exception I can think of is the Kratos vs Asura storyboards but that felt more like damage control than anything due to how controversial that episode was. Literally every time we learn about some behind the scenes info or some future info its because someone bothered to screencap a statement made in the Discord. When the vast majority of your fanbase literally cannot see your explanations then what do you expect?

Even the Q&As are locked behind a paywall. You can't go "you guys have no idea what goes on during the making of an episode" while also paywalling the ability to learn said info.

So much information is paywalled it's insane and a lot of public information is only given during the casts, which they know 99% of their audience never tunes in and even the community tunes in half the time.

 

[ByArrow]

To top it off she has been overwhelmed with mist before, the Buffy wiki states Buffy and the Scoobies are overwhelmed by Vicki's forces, who are tougher to stake and capable of turning into mist, panthers, and giant bats.

They weren't overwhelmed. Willow was overwhelmed because she was trying to get used to a new magic system and was exusted from everything going on in her life. Buffy easily handled dozens of these vampires.

Buffy blames herself for an imminent defeat, until the timely arrival of Faith, Giles, Kennedy, Holly, and Leah in the fight.

Buffy blamed herself for putting them in such a dangerous situation.

Blade can keep up with those who have legit super speed,

So does Buffy.

could tag cosmic ghost rider WHILE HE WAS ON HIS BIKE,

I don't need to tell you that this is a outliner for Marvel's street tier.

and can smell magic so he’d immedeatly know the scythe was dangerous

It wouldn't make much of a difference.

Ok for the first point you just strawmanned me, I never said blade was goj by to enter Buffy’s body.

I didn't claim that you said it. I responded to what you said, then I put forward my own claim.

I said partially solid, he can literally turn his arm solid and attack with just his sword while the rest of his body is fine

And that's an advantage, yes, but it's not something Buffy can't handle.

, this is excluding the fact that he has a major speed advantage in this form

How major?

Blade has also fought people with thousands of years of experience like Kara, Dracula and Zatharos.

Therefore, you should not downplay characters based on their age.

There also the fact the adamantium odatchi scales above and breaks the scythe due to marvel cosmology bullshit,

If I'm not mistaken, this equipment isn't something he always carry with him; it's optional equipment. And if we're including optional equipment, Buffy also has the Book of Vampyr. It's a book that can do many things, including manipulating the laws of the universe, and manipulating minds. And mind manipulation is layered.

and even if you don’t buy the odachi he still has justicar.

It's not a weapon he always carries and uses. If we're counting optional equipment, Buffy's single sentence in the Book of Vampyr would eliminate Blade in instant. And Blade has nothing to counter this book.

If you composite hik from the video games (don’t even complain about video game stuff Buffy gets her gorgon spears),

If I'm not mistaken, none of the games featuring Blade are canon to the main comic version.

he has several stat multipliers to make th e speed game even worse,

Which multipliers?

yiu can get buffy to 0.89c while you can get blade to 1.49c. It’s also not an outlier as he has taken she hulks gamma bombs and been thrown by the hulj

If you completely disregard consistency, you can scale Buffy much higher than this.

And I provided scans of Buffy being overwhelmed,

No. None of the links you provided are working.

yes she fought Dracula whk can turn into mist but he was moving so slow

She fought dozens of new vampires who possessed Dracula's powers and were even faster than him, all at the same time.

and it was so obvious where he was gonna reform he may as well have been holding a red flashing sign

What you said about Dracula is true, but not for the new vampires.

As I said, if we're going to include optional equipment, Buffy easily defeats Blade using the Book of Vampyr.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

To be fair for this one, DB just never tells anyone who doesn't pay them to be in the Discord anything about behind the scenes stuff still until way after the fact. The only recent exception I can think of is the Kratos vs Asura storyboards but that felt more like damage control than anything due to how controversial that episode was. Literally every time we learn about some behind the scenes info or some future info its because someone bothered to screencap a statement made in the Discord. When the vast majority of your fanbase literally cannot see your explanations then what do you expect?

Even the Q&As are locked behind a paywall. You can't go "you guys have no idea what goes on during the making of an episode" while also paywalling the ability to learn said info.

I think them pay walling the Q&A 2 for Ash Vs Yugi is so gross. These things used to be ******* free and now they’re just behind a paywall to learn what they did for the research.

 

[Tipper17]

So much information is paywalled it's insane and a lot of public information is only given during the casts, which they know 99% of their audience never tunes in and even the community tunes in half the time.

I think them pay wall the Q&A 2 for Ash Vs Yugi is so gross. These things used to be ******* free and now they’re just behind a paywall to learn what they did for the research.

Look understand folks will shit on peeps regardless of the reasons but it be much easier to explain most of the time

 

[Thunderman101]

And again, they dont need visuals for everyone else. How many universal characters in DB have actually busted an uni? Very few.

They weren't overwhelmed. Willow was overwhelmed because she was trying to get used to a new magic system and was exusted from everything going on in her life. Buffy easily handled dozens of these vampires.

Buffy blamed herself for putting them in such a dangerous situation.

So does Buffy.

I don't need to tell you that this is a outliner for Marvel's street tier.

It wouldn't make much of a difference.

I didn't claim that you said it. I responded to what you said, then I put forward my own claim.

And that's an advantage, yes, but it's not something Buffy can't handle.

How major?

Therefore, you should not downplay characters based on their age.

If I'm not mistaken, this equipment isn't something he always carry with him; it's optional equipment. And if we're including optional equipment, Buffy also has the Book of Vampyr. It's a book that can do many things, including manipulating the laws of the universe, and manipulating minds. And mind manipulation is layered.

It's not a weapon he always carries and uses. If we're counting optional equipment, Buffy's single sentence in the Book of Vampyr would eliminate Blade in instant. And Blade has nothing to counter this book.

If I'm not mistaken, none of the games featuring Blade are canon to the main comic version.

Which multipliers?

If you completely disregard consistency, you can scale Buffy much higher than this.

No. None of the links you provided are working.

She fought dozens of new vampires who possessed Dracula's powers and were even faster than him, all at the same time.

What you said about Dracula is true, but not for the new vampires.

As I said, if we're going to include optional equipment, Buffy easily defeats Blade using the Book of Vampyr.

Buffy in character would not use the book over soemthing like the scythe, blade consistently uses his best options whenever he has them

As for the stat multipliers

• Adamantium Stake: The most powerful stake for damage, it contains both the Brutal Strike and Fatal Blow properties. Brutal Strike prevents its damage from being cancelled by resurrection abilities (essentially ones that trigger upon a character getting knocked down), while Fatal Blow instantly kills at 20% health or lower, though this doesn’t work on bosses.
• Shredder Stake: Deals Bleeding to targets hit, which makes foes take damage worth 4% of their health for every stack. The stake also has the Ravaged effect, which deals 50% more damage to foes affected by Bleeding or Internal Bleeding.
• Smoke Stake: Shots avoid triggering counter or protect abilities, while causing a 50% chance for the next target’s attack to miss along with Disorienting them, making their attack have a 30% chance to miss.
• Stun Stake: Stuns a target, making them unable to act in their next turn while reducing their dodge chance.

• Bleeding Edge: A slashing melee attack that hits the enemy three times and deals 3 rounds of Bleeding.
• Dead by Dawn: An unarmed melee attack that hits one foe three times. Enemies hit by this move take 50% more damage from Slashing attacks for 3 rounds. Blade also restores 5% health for each stack of bleeding on a target, and gains an additional 10% attack, defense, accuracy and evasion upon attacking Bleeding targets.
• High Stakes: A ranged attack that deals 150% damage to foes who are Undead, Vampires or Demons that have a Hallowed vulnerability. This also causes any applications from Bleeding to automatically trigger, along with triggering Internal Bleeding, while also being stealthy to avoid triggering counter or protect abilities. Enemies hit can have a 40% chance to lose their next turn, and any enemies at or below 20% health are instantly downed (does not apply for bosses).
• Bloodlust: A move that buffs Blade, it lets him gain a free turn while buffing his next attack. Additionally dispels any debuffs currently active, along with increasing his accuracy, attack, defense and evasion stats, while also restoring stamina with life draining attacks instead of health. All effects last 1 turn.

• Daywalker: Has a 25% chance of activating when attacking. Blade restores health equivalent to 8% of the damage dealt to a target, and reactivates 0.5 seconds from using the ability. Lasts for 10 seconds, and has a cooldown of 25 seconds after use.
• Vampire Senses V2: For his Avengers uniform. When Blade uses a HP Steal ability, he removes all Debuffs from himself for 5 seconds, while increasing his attack and defense by 25%, along with his speed by 5% and critical rate by 25%, and removes Incapacitation for 10 seconds. Has a cooldown of 20 seconds.
• Deep Wounds: When using a Bleed effect, removes all activated debuffs (5 seconds), restores health equal to 10% of damage dealt from the attack (10 seconds, limit to 3% max health), can be reactivated 0.5 seconds following activation. Also increases attack and defense by 40%, speed by 5% of critical rate by 30%, and removes Incapacitation for 10 seconds.
• Vampiric Curse V2: Ignores 30% of a target’s evasion rate, and increases damage dealt by skills by 40%, and bonus damage by 35%.
• Killer Instinct: Inflicts Burn (30% extra fire damage every second for three) and Bleed (Deals 30% extra damage every second while shortening recovery rates by 50% for 3 seconds). For Blade himself, it gives him 50% chance to penetrate those with special defenses like Super Armor, Shields or Invincibility for 9 seconds, while granting himself Invincibility for 5 seconds. Also increases the attack damage he deals by 40% and his defense and speed by 10% (9 seconds), while increasing his basic damage by 70% (7 seconds), and increases physical damage by 135%
• Sword Edge: The version from the 70s Classic Uniform. Decreases an enemy’s physical defense by 30% (10 seconds), and deals physical damage based on 77% of Blade’s physical attack. Cooldown of 7 seconds.
• Blood Dance: For Blade’s Avengers Uniform. Gives +70 chance for an enemy to miss their attack (1 second). Also decreases basic defenses by 8% (can stack up to 50%), and ignores immunity (cooldown of 8 seconds). Deals physical damage based on 56% of Blade’s physical attack. Cooldown of 9 seconds.
• Hunter’s Revenge: For Blade’s Avengers uniform. Blade can inflict 20% additional damage every second while shortening recovery rates by 40% (5 seconds). Can also stun foes for 2 seconds while granting +70 chance for attacks to miss Blade (1 second), alongside decreasing basic defenses by 8% with the same stacking effect as Blood Dance, alongside granting Blade 6 seconds of invincibility while dealing 111% of physical damage based on Blade’s physical attack stat. Has a cooldown of 17 seconds.

All from official marvel video games

1/2

 

[Thunderman101]

They weren't overwhelmed. Willow was overwhelmed because she was trying to get used to a new magic system and was exusted from everything going on in her life. Buffy easily handled dozens of these vampires.

Buffy blamed herself for putting them in such a dangerous situation.

So does Buffy.

I don't need to tell you that this is a outliner for Marvel's street tier.

It wouldn't make much of a difference.

I didn't claim that you said it. I responded to what you said, then I put forward my own claim.

And that's an advantage, yes, but it's not something Buffy can't handle.

How major?

Therefore, you should not downplay characters based on their age.

If I'm not mistaken, this equipment isn't something he always carry with him; it's optional equipment. And if we're including optional equipment, Buffy also has the Book of Vampyr. It's a book that can do many things, including manipulating the laws of the universe, and manipulating minds. And mind manipulation is layered.

It's not a weapon he always carries and uses. If we're counting optional equipment, Buffy's single sentence in the Book of Vampyr would eliminate Blade in instant. And Blade has nothing to counter this book.

If I'm not mistaken, none of the games featuring Blade are canon to the main comic version.

Which multipliers?

If you completely disregard consistency, you can scale Buffy much higher than this.

No. None of the links you provided are working.

She fought dozens of new vampires who possessed Dracula's powers and were even faster than him, all at the same time.

What you said about Dracula is true, but not for the new vampires.

As I said, if we're going to include optional equipment, Buffy easily defeats Blade using the Book of Vampyr.

Prove its layered mind manip, and I am not disregarding consistently, using consistent calcs with both will have blade as just barely faster. Is it really an outlier, if it happens several times it might not be, he’s dodged Hyperion cosmic ghost rider etc, and while they may be faster she has not faced one who can attack and defend at the same time, her scythe isint even multiverse as the dimension cutting spell feat required a spell she dosent know and Silas was getting hit around by ordinary weapons, so justicar or the adamantium odatcchi would just break the scythe lmao. As for the book I don’t see what’s stopping him from shooting it, and has that ever been Buffy’s first move in character. You’d also have to ignore all the times he’s fought ghost rider lmao.

 

[ByArrow]

Buffy in character would not use the book over soemthing like the scythe, blade consistently uses his best options whenever he has them

She used the book many times.

All from official marvel video games

Official doesn't mean canon. If we're going to use non-canon stuff, I could pull some seriously ridiculous things from Buffy's novel.