-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)
- Thread starter TMaakkonen
- Start date
- 3,103
- 3,544
I heard they got Ruben Langdon and Daniel Southworth back to do new voice lines. Is this true?
- 26,420
- 30,739
Tbf, Hal is explicitly an outlier amongst the GLs, so him having better stuff than Kyle isn't that surprising.
Ehhhhhhhh
- 27,322
- 61,042
yes its true
- 1,074
- 1,350
In what way?
I'm sure there is a tiny overlap in a venn diagram but almost anything can do that
- 867
- 297
I've heard someone say that Kyle with the LE in Futures End was resisted by multiple different people. What's to stop Simon from just doing this? Isn't this just the Spiral Nemesis scene all over again?
- 26,420
- 30,739
Mainly because he's been overshadowed by Hal, John and Jessica. He was mainly popular within the 90s because he was the only lantern at the time.
Furthermore, a lot of Kyle's stories hinge on having Hal's downfall prior, and without that, his stories carry less weight. Making Kyle one of the harder lanterns to adapt.
- 26,420
- 30,739
Like it's actually insane Kyle hasn't been in Young Justice, when you'd think he'd be one of the most obvious choices to place in that show.
- 77
- 105
Based on everything I've been seeing, I can only conclude that Kyle is a fraud who has no business fighting someone like Simon. The LE cope doesn't work since he himself can't even reliably use it and it would be more likely to turn on him, and the things he has done with it aren't even impressive. Hell, in the AU where he keeps the LE, he gets outwilled by some random woman. This is just Simon vs white Anti-spiral. His only wincon is getting wanked.
ZeNoviceArtist
He/Him- 6,043
- 7,321
Let's hope this episode changes that.
- 11,132
- 10,897
.......You're RightI've heard someone say that Kyle with the LE in Futures End was resisted by multiple different people. What's to stop Simon from just doing this? Isn't this just the Spiral Nemesis scene all over again?
- 11,132
- 10,897
That's why way to see it lol
Based on everything I've been seeing, I can only conclude that Kyle is a fraud who has no business fighting someone like Simon. The LE cope doesn't work since he himself can't even reliably use it and it would be more likely to turn on him, and the things he has done with it aren't even impressive. Hell, in the AU where he keeps the LE, he gets outwilled by some random woman. This is just Simon vs white Anti-spiral. His only wincon is getting wanked.
- 1,074
- 1,350
The fact this is a fight to the death and Kyle is not going to be testing an heir?
- 20,446
- 20,338
She is motivated, also she may be an alpha, but Vergil is also the Omega on top of that
- 12,385
- 19,586
hey so if anyone here is a fan of X-men, can you tell me if Dazzler vs Rose Kujikawa can work? I wanna cook something
ZeNoviceArtist
He/Him- 6,043
- 7,321
This Kyle unable to control LE talk is starting to remind ScarletZatanna.
- 406
- 532
So I've repeatedly mentioned the Mandrakk feat doesn't work, I guess I should elaborate:
docs.google.com
*When I say universal, keep in mind I consider universal 2-A for DC
Given all of this, it isn’t entirely quantifiable how powerful Kyle would be from this feat, but at best its low multiverse level, but more likely just universal if divided amongst the 50+ heroes involved in his slaying.
Kyle Rayner Scaling for Death Battle
Kyle Rayner Scaling for Death Battle Introduction Liam mostly had four major arguments in the Simon vs Kyle Death Battle Cast: Kyle was able to change a planck length to be a centimeter Kyle, much like Hal, is even stronger than Ion, the embodiment of willpower Kyle alongside Hal Jordan...
docs.google.com
- The Mandrakk that was killed by Green Lanterns was not the one that fought the Thought Robot, that was Dax Novu, the one in Final Crisis #7 is his disciple Rox Ogama who is likely weaker
- Monitors should realistically only be outerversal when in the Monitor Sphere. If they were at that scope in the Orrery of Worlds they would collapse all of existence even quicker than Darkseid was given their true forms’ scope. We also have other examples of non-outerversal Monitors in the multiverse through the Over-Monitor and Anti-Monitor
- The Anti-Monitor and Over-Monitor without amps appear to be low multiverse level. Rox Ogama as Mandrakk is either equal to or a bit weaker than them most likely.
- Mandrakk would scale to Spectre bound by Crispus Allen who managed to wrangle the Butcher, meaning he is around Emotional Entity level which is universal to low multiversal
- Mandrakk wasn’t just struck down by 6 Green Lanterns, but a whole multiverse of Supermen
- Mandrakk is a vampire, and Morrison intends meta messaging in his stories, so Mandrakk has a specific weakness to light and stakes in the heart, explaining why they could easily kill him
- Mandrakk was potentially weakened by the activation of the Miracle Machine forcing a happy ending at his expense
Given all of this, it isn’t entirely quantifiable how powerful Kyle would be from this feat, but at best its low multiverse level, but more likely just universal if divided amongst the 50+ heroes involved in his slaying.
- 9,238
- 4,368
Swank shit already got destroyed TWICE.
- 406
- 532
Even for Death Battle standards, Green Lanterns have very solidly capped feats. The vaunted Mandrakk feat is much more easily to dispel than Zatanna vs Pralaya or MMH vs Perpetua or whatever. The fact is for this fight they're gonna have to rely on chain scaling because Green Lanterns peak at big bang multiverse level.
- 9,571
- 18,404
- Thread starter
- #24,101
Not that Hal just has more big moments, which yeah fits, rather that its Hal who specifically finishes of the big threats Kyle is fighting in big arcs... supposedly.
- 867
- 297
ruh roh
- 77
- 105
Average powerscaler that doesn’t read comics and leaves out context.
- 9,571
- 18,404
- Thread starter
- #24,105
Altho tbh we probably forgot that ******* Apocalypse got scaled to the entire Marvel cosmology, wallahi we are cooked.
- 406
- 532
Kyle Rayner basically has to rely on a long scaling chain. I doubt he remotely compares to Infinite Frontier Superman, nobody does, so ignore him.
DC cosmology isn't that convoluted, and we know how far Green lanterns get
There is a universe, it has infinite timelines within it. Dimensionality is inconsistent, sometimes 4-D, sometimes 11-D, sometimes higher, Death Battle won't mention it because even the authors cannot decide.
52 of those, that makes the Orrery of Worlds. Once again dimensionality is so inconsistent with DC it's better to either just assume 11-D or shut up.
then there's the Bleedspace, nothing suggests Kyle Rayner is Bleedspace level. All the threats he or the green lanterns have dealt with have usually been limited to Orrery Level. That includes Nekron, they were only fighting an emanation of Nekron.
Life Equation is Godsphere level, even Simon glazer me says Simon can't deal with Godsphere level stuff, but again the White Lantern isn't God Sphere level, nor is it Bleedspace level.
The insane scaling Martian Manhunter and Zatanna and Raven had was through hax abilities unique to themselves and not replicable to all characters. Kyle's powers comes from Lantern Rings, not magical or psionic powers. We can only base his limits off what rings can scale to.
DC cosmology isn't that convoluted, and we know how far Green lanterns get
There is a universe, it has infinite timelines within it. Dimensionality is inconsistent, sometimes 4-D, sometimes 11-D, sometimes higher, Death Battle won't mention it because even the authors cannot decide.
52 of those, that makes the Orrery of Worlds. Once again dimensionality is so inconsistent with DC it's better to either just assume 11-D or shut up.
then there's the Bleedspace, nothing suggests Kyle Rayner is Bleedspace level. All the threats he or the green lanterns have dealt with have usually been limited to Orrery Level. That includes Nekron, they were only fighting an emanation of Nekron.
Life Equation is Godsphere level, even Simon glazer me says Simon can't deal with Godsphere level stuff, but again the White Lantern isn't God Sphere level, nor is it Bleedspace level.
The insane scaling Martian Manhunter and Zatanna and Raven had was through hax abilities unique to themselves and not replicable to all characters. Kyle's powers comes from Lantern Rings, not magical or psionic powers. We can only base his limits off what rings can scale to.
They scaled him to the Death Seed IIRC, without it they had him at like universal to multiversal.
- 9,571
- 18,404
- Thread starter
- #24,107
Cmon, they managed to make Death Seed get the funny scaling, there is no way they wouldnt do it for White Lantern.
- 406
- 532
I don't know much about the Death Seed, but it probably had more time to do funny things.
Again, White Lantern's only good statement that isn't the iffy Source Lantern scaling is "It's a threat to the guardians," the combined force of the white lantern corpse defeated an emanation of Nekron, and WL Deadman knocked back Anti-Monitor a bit. Nothing else, that's basically it.
People overestimate how much there is to work with for Kyle. If he wins without the LE it's because he's carried by scaling chains to things other Green Lanterns did which scaled to someone else who did x feat.
Last edited:
- 1,074
- 1,350
I recall a DB researcher saying that Kyle was "under researched" and there is no way that's not gonna lead to him having a ton of hax and resistances
- 406
- 532
Unless someone hasn't read the fairly short New Guardians series and his time as the fill-in for Hal. There really isn't much material. His best feats were post Circle of Fire when he was becoming Ion. New Guardians might have something, but really he relies on what Hal has.
- 27,322
- 61,042
Nit really they mentioned most of the time folks who glaze Kyle have no idea on what there talking about so it's a mix of both
- 406
- 532
To be clear, Kyle Rayner has amazing feats if you aren't brainrotten-to-the-core Death Battle which has gone through obscene wank escalation. Seriously before rebirth characters weren't just ******** out lolversal feats like modern debating thinks. Kyle Rayner's "hold back the big bang" feat was the best feat at the time, and it comes from him in a state where he was on-panel more powerful than anyone else at the time because it was Post-Circle of Fire (Where he defeated Oblivion who took down the entire Justice League); he was in the process of becoming Ion. If you tone your expectations down to what actually happened he has great feats. The issue is all the best feats come from Rebirth era, where he loses relevance again. You have to scale him to other people. Now IIRC John Stewart has a good feat and Hal Jordan has a universal feat with the Miracle Machine, but nothing else. All the insane stuff is either coming from amped forms of Wonder Woman or Infinite Frontier Superman who is a beast that >>> the rest of the cast.
- 11,132
- 10,897
Ngl it's good to have people like you here lol
- 406
- 532
Really just joined to comment on Chiefslayer and dispel relativistic Spartans but it appears even DB just pushed for mach 10 spartans which meh. Had Simon vs Kyle happened later I'd be off again. The autism and OCD in me make makes me care that stats are exactly correct and that's why I don't seriously take the R>F stuff for TTGL seriously because it contradicts the constant emphasis that these are m-theory branespaces (Even if I'd love Simon to win)
- 27,322
- 61,042
Still you can figure a way to make him work on the big screen making him a rookie lantern is one
- 406
- 532
You could do it Star Wars style. Where he is a rookie walking in the proverbial ruins of a now disbanded Green Lantern corps. Why were they disbanded? Because their greatest Green Lantern went rogue over a tragedy and wiped out the whole corps. He then put himself into exile. He was chosen by Ganthet to be the new and last Green Lantern in this situation.
ZeNoviceArtist
He/Him- 6,043
- 7,321
Would any other Green Lantern against Simon would work just as well as Kyle as an MU?
- 9,238
- 4,368
LOL, Kyle is literally a fraud "potential man".
- 406
- 532
nah. There is a certain magnetic energy both Kyle and Simon have, their auras are basically identical. Hal Jordan is ******* boring. Jon Stewart's context is entirely different, so is Guy Gardner's.
- 27,322
- 61,042
Hey now Hal when written well can be fun
But yeah on your point Kyle just clicks the most with Simon as far a GL mu with Simon that none of the others can capture
Asthetics
Themes
Etc
It just clicks man
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
