Gojo VS Fran • (3-13-0) • FRAN WINS!

[Phoenks]

I just want to see the world burn.

-

Gojo Satoru, the Esoteric Exotic Mathematical Informational Conceptual Infinity Space Barrier Man, the Honored One

VS

Fran, the Average DT Page, the Magic Sword Girl (Also Master + Urushi)

High 7-C • Speed Equalized • SBA
Gojo: 3: @Arcker123, @Arc7Kuroi, @Dr._whiteee
Fran: 13: @Setsuna_tenma, @BestMGQScalerEver, @Robo432343, @StorytellingDemonKing, @LIFE_OF_KING, @EL_xWatcher1234x, @BadSystems, @Dragonite007, @Epiccheev, @Mycroft_er, @Lynieryz, @EldemadeDityjon, @Phoenks,

 

[Shmooply]

I just want to see the world burn.

Why are you like this.
Before the match starts, I'd like to bring up that Fran also has access to both Master and Urushi who have their own share of hax.

oh now i realize why you made this thread

 

[Phoenks]

I'll start by saying...

Fran/Master would immediately discern Infinity's properties via appraisal. From there, the sword has space-time magic that allows it to become spatially intangible by shifting to a different dimension. That would likely be the first move.

It can also teleport. Which would likely mean teleportation directly into Gojo's body is possible.

 

[Shmooply]

There's definitely going to be a lot of people arguing for Gojo, so I'll try to argue for Fran until DT or another supporter of the verse pops-up.

While the OP didn't specify which key for Fran is being used, SBA assumes that her newest key (as well as Master's) is being used. Fran's advantages seem to be:

• A massive amount of stat amps
• Armor that passively regenerates (I'm guessing it works the same way as armor in RPGs, where a guy that's only wearing skimpy leather armor can somehow tank powerful attacks from a heavy and sharp weapon)
• Lightning that can go through opponents
• Abilities utilizing incorporeal and intangible beings that can't be sensed even by people who can perceive invisible beings
• Forcefields (against physical attacks only)
• Master can fight on his own so she can give Gojo PTSD by turning the fight into a 1v3
• While it doesn't outright help her negate Unlimited Void, she has a couple abilities that heals her mind and gives her heightened mental endurance, so she could possibly not get incapped by it immediately
• i dont ******* know, skill advantage too i guess

Master's advantages:

• Also a chunk of stat amps
• Can literally steal Gojo's powers so he can't use them, and make him unaware that his abilities were even stolen. I feel like I don't even need to list his other advantages
• Can crush his neck with telekinesis (unsure if we scale Gojo's physicals to Blue)
• Can shapeshift into other weapons and even armor for Fran just to make it trickier for Gojo in a possible 1v3 scenario
• Can also make five more copies of himself
• Can stop time and do other space-time shenanigans like block attacks by distorting space-time and slow down one's perception
• Honestly this guy has so many defensive spells that I can't keep count of it
• Can spam abilities that stun or bind his opponent
• Can also apparently steal Gojo's consciousness and make him faint that way
• Can make a barrier that can protect him and Fran from the effects of Unlimited Void
• This guy has so many abilities that Gojo has no answers to that I gave up on listing them all

Urushi's advantages:

• Honestly some of Fran's and Master's stuff but to a weaker extent
• Can reduce the effectiveness of RCT by biting Gojo
• Apparently this ************ can bite so hard it ***** with the laws of space-time and can bite people hiding in other dimensions

His 1v3 against Sukuna, Mahoraga, and Agito may as well be a joke.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I will say that TSKD has like 6 kinds of power by now.
Chi, Magic, Divine Energy, Evil Energy, Chaos and Curses (and skills, technically). I think Gojo's stuff would all fall under curses, so Master can use his curse negation spells and the curse resistance might do something.
That aside, that makes it kinda questionable whether he can even perceive magic and the like, which in turn means that Infinity may not even activated against it.

That much as a starter.

 

[Da3ggman]

Following

 

[Dr._whiteee]

I don't see Concept manip on that profile

 

[DontTalkDT]

Fran also blitzes due to lots of speed amps.

I don't see Concept manip on that profile

Not that that does anything of relevance here lol

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Fran also blitzes due to lots of speed amps.

Not that that does anything of relevance here lol

How is she bypassing infinity without it?

 

[DontTalkDT]

How is she bypassing infinity without it?

Negating the curse that does that to begin with is one option. No curse energy = no concept manip. That's even one of his listed weaknesses.

That aside, as I said above, Fran has like 6 kinds of power that Gojo can't even perceive as far as I know. And since Infinity has to actually detect the stuff that is about to hit Gojo to activate, the defense just isn't active for her. (Not that it would be part of his blacklist to begin with)

And chances are Gojo just isn't fast enough to activate it in time in this speed equal scenario. (and before you say it, something being automatic, doesn't mean it's instantanous)


Also, wasn't there something about space cutting working against Gojo or something lately? There was some hearsay, but I haven't paid enough attention to say what that's about.

Just to throw out a few options for a start.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Negating the curse that does that to begin with is one option. No curse energy = no concept manip. That's even one of his listed weaknesses.

Yeah that would require negation with enough potency to negate cursed energy. Gojo gets negated by powernull in JJK which can bypass things like concept, void, space, manipulation etc. Just nullifying a colloquial "curse" isn't doing anything to Gojo.

That aside, as I said above, Fran has like 6 kinds of power that Gojo can't even perceive as far as I know. And since Infinity has to actually detect the stuff that is about to hit Gojo to activate, the defense just isn't active for her.

This isn't how infinity works, Infinity is passive and does not rely on any reaction time to "detect". You are referencing how his power worked before fighting Toji.

So I'll need to know what powers can actually bypass current infinity.

And chances are Gojo just isn't fast enough to activate it in time in this speed equal scenario. (and before you say it, something being automatic, doesn't mean it's instantanous)

It's passive.

Also, wasn't there something about space cutting working against Gojo or something lately? There was some hearsay, but I haven't paid enough attention to say what that's about.

Naw, Sukuna utilized a concept cutter that encapsulated all of infinity to bypass it.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That aside, as I said above, Fran has like 6 kinds of power that Gojo can't even perceive as far as I know. And since Infinity has to actually detect the stuff that is about to hit Gojo to activate, the defense just isn't active for her. (Not that it would be part of his blacklist to begin with)

Yeah his infinity works on Perception of Gojos capabilities

And chances are Gojo just isn't fast enough to activate it in time in this speed equal scenario. (and before you say it, something being automatic, doesn't mean it's instantanous)

Here is the scan

 

[Lynieryz]

(and before you say it, something being automatic, doesn't mean it's instantanous)

For heaven's sake, could someone create a CRT about this? About 70% of the people on this wiki believe that an automatic process = infinite speed; I didn't realize my coffee machine had infinite speed.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Do yourself

 

[Lynieryz]

Do yourself

Too lazy for that.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

For heaven's sake, could someone create a CRT about this? About 70% of the people on this wiki believe that an automatic process = infinite speed; I didn't realize my coffee machine had infinite speed.

No one want to see the hell with 30 pages of debate.

Anyway gonna take some more time to fully read this thread gonna give my input later.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Yeah his infinity works on Perception of Gojos capabilities

Here is the scan

Yep, know those scans. In fact, it does mention about him having difficulty with poison. Has he fixed that yet? Because Fran has a lot of poison. Magic poisons at that...

Yeah that would require negation with enough potency to negate cursed energy. Gojo gets negated by powernull in JJK which can bypass things like concept, void, space, manipulation etc. Just nullifying a colloquial "curse" isn't doing anything to Gojo.

Cursed energy isn't concepts. You are conflating the cause with the effect. Cursed energy might causes concept manipulation, but it isn't concepts in itself. Fran can negate it perfectly fine before the stage where it causes those things.

This isn't how infinity works, Infinity is passive and does not rely on any reaction time to "detect". You are referencing how his power worked before fighting Toji.

So I'll need to know what powers can actually bypass current infinity.

It's passive.

It's automatic, not passive. If it were passive, Gojo would at all times have infinite distance to all objects and could never touch anything.
It works like Eldemade's scans show, which is it automatically identifies a threat and then automatically activates the ability. Neither is there reason to assume it does so instantaneously, nor can Gojo even pick up on the threat in this case.



Talking about passives, Fran has passive (after activation) life drain aura. So Gojo would need to keep infinity activated 360° at all times to not be affected. But while doing so he can't really fight, because he too is infinite far away from everything then. So if he doesn't shut it off that might lead to incap.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Cursed energy isn't concepts. You are conflating the cause with the effect. Cursed energy might causes concept manipulation, but it isn't concepts in itself. Fran can negate it perfectly fine before the stage where it causes those things.

I'm not. Cursed energy is a fundemantel essence in the JJK curse that is not only responsible for the esoteric effects in the world, but the actual essence of ontology including things such as humans, curses, and animals.

If you're positing that any old powernull that works on "curses" that aren't synonymous with curses in JJK, then that's just plainly an quivocaiton fallacy/NLF. The potency needs to be there as even the most basic simple domain in JJK can powernull the most broken techniques, that's a testament to barrier powernull, not a weakness of limitless.

It's automatic, not passive. If it were passive, Gojo would at all times have infinite distance to all objects and could never touch anything.

No, the selectivity of limitless is completely separate from its passiveness. Gojo can already manually keep it on for dozens of hours straight, his automatic state keeps it passive for him.

It works like Eldemade's scans show, which is it automatically identifies a threat and then automatically activates the ability. Neither is there reason to assume it does so instantaneously, nor can Gojo even pick up on the threat in this case.

You are looking at scans from when gojo first awakened that application of the technique, a decade into the past. Once again, even when Gojo was doing it manually, he was able to keep it successively for dozens of hours straight, hence why Toji had to literally follow them and wait until the end of their mission when Gojo finally let down his infinity. The new infinity is constantly upkept by him and automatically detects threats outside of his purview, this goes hand in hand with his RCT which works 24/7 without his will to upkeep the strain on his brain for constantly using his technique.

Once again, you are using feats from an 18 year old Gojo. Gojo's limitless can stop the radiation of heat, which is propagated through EM waves. He has also stopped intangible spirits from affecting him in a timeless realm, so his scope of things he himself can interact is also vast so I'm not really sure what you means by threats that limitless can't pick up on.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

How does Fran get past Limitless, much know what it is?

 

[DontTalkDT]

I'm not. Cursed energy is a fundemantel essence in the JJK curse that is not only responsible for the esoteric effects in the world, but the actual essence of ontology including things such as humans, curses, and animals.

If you're positing that any old powernull that works on "curses" that aren't synonymous with curses in JJK, then that's just plainly an quivocaiton fallacy/NLF. The potency needs to be there as even the most basic simple domain in JJK can powernull the most broken techniques, that's a testament to barrier powernull, not a weakness of limitless.

Given that I don't see concept manip on all cursed energy users profiles I'm gonna call bs on that.
From what I read on JJK wiki and the cursed energy explanation page their nature is pretty similar.

No, the selectivity of limitless is completely separate from its passiveness. Gojo can already manually keep it on for dozens of hours straight, his automatic state keeps it passive for him.

"Keeping it on" is worthless if the selection process doesn't select Fran's attacks as things that need to be repelled. Again, it only repels things it considers dangerous, not simply all things. And Gojo can't consider these dangerous as he can't percieve them.

You are looking at scans from when gojo first awakened the technique, a decade into the past. Once again, even when Gojo was doing it manually, he was able to keep it successively for dozens of hours straight, hence why Toji had to literally follow them and wait until the end of their mission when Gojo finally let down his infinity. The new infinity is constantly upkept by him and automatically detects threats outside of his purview, this goes hand in hand with his RCT which works 24/7 without his will to upkeep the strain on his brain for constantly using his technique.

Once again, you are using feats from an 18 year old Gojo. Gojo's limitless can stop the radiation of heat, which is propagated through EM waves. He has also stopped intangible spirits from affecting him in a timeless realms, so his scope of things he himself can interact is also vast so I'm not really sure what you means by threats that limitless can't pick up on.

So what you are saying is that it is automatic (not passive) and works by detecting threats. And that he has no feats of picking up these kinds of energies.
I feel like that is what I was saying.

 

[DontTalkDT]

How does Fran get past Limitless, much know what it is?

See the above debate for the first part.
For know what it is: Appraisal instantly tells her.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

See the above debate for the first part.
For know what it is: Appraisal instantly tells her.

Okay, but how? How does it instantly tell her it’s an infinite space? What exactly is she analyzing? All he’s doing is bringing the concept of infinity into reality.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Cant Gojo just spawn a lapse blue inside her, where he creates a bug in the existence and the world tries to fix it by putting amounts of matter in the place, since she lacks a Innate Domain and such

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Given that I don't see concept manip on all cursed energy users profiles I'm gonna call bs on that.

Yeah, it was just passed not yet applied by the profile workers.

I can show you any scans necessary but yeah, cured energy isn't just a magical system, it's literally a systemic building block that is also said to exist between the spiritual and physical false duality of the JJK world.

From what I read on JJK wiki and the cursed energy explanation page their nature is pretty similar.

It's not doe, unless that other system can interact with and is composed of the same thing the JJK ontology is. I mean chakra and CE share similar properties but human path can't just absorb limitless off of Gojo without being able to interact with concepts and info type 2.

"Keeping it on" is worthless if the selection process doesn't select Fran's attacks as things that need to be repelled. Again, it only repels things it considers dangerous, not simply all things. And Gojo can't consider these dangerous.

He does though, so I would need you to list what Fran is using that is going to bypass his detection system, cause as stated, Infinity is on 24/7 around the clock.

So what you are saying is that it is automatic (not passive) and works by detecting threats. And that he has no feats of picking up these kinds of energies.
I feel like that is what I was saying.

Naw, you should spin the block and read what I actually said. In short, what attacks does she have that bypass limitless? What can she interact with?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Cant Gojo just spawn a lapse blue inside her, where he creates a bug in the existence and the world tries to fix it by putting amounts of matter in the place, since she lacks a Innate Domain and such

Pretty sure he can’t. He needs to physically punch her for that to happen.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Pretty sure he can’t. He needs to physically punch her for that to happen.

I mean, sorcerers need to direct contact due to the innate domain of the people, the "Heart" that protect them. But idk how we equalize it in another verses

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Gojo can create remote spheres of blue but it's unknown if he can do it to the extent of his maximum technique from which he usually starts in his hand. Notably he can also carve space remotely with this application which I feels is overlooked in debates a lot.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

He does though, so I would need you to list what Fran is using that is going to bypass his detection system, cause as stated, Infinity is on 24/7 around the clock.

24/7 around the clock because he's able to use a RCT to keep it running in his subconscious without frying his brain (cuz being able to filter stuff 24/7 takes a massive burden on his brain). I'd still say it's based on what he can perceive consciously or subconsciously.

Pretty sure DT has literally said what could bypass it.

Can't believe I'm finding people with the same unpopular Gojo take as me with infinity = based on perception

 

[Dr._whiteee]

24/7 around the clock because he's able to use a RCT to keep it running in his subconscious without frying his brain (cuz being able to filter stuff 24/7 takes a massive burden on his brain). I'd still say it's based on what he can perceive consciously or subconsciously.

No, the only reason his brain has to run 24/7 is to keep up with the demand it put's on his brain, as limitless is so taxing it can't be used without the cost reduction of six eyes. Ergo, it's active 24/7. Gojo no longer has to manually detect threats and can effect massless phenomena and spirits. I'm not sure what else you want me to tell you, without bypassing concepts or having strong enough powernull, Fran is getting walled.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

When Mahoraga realize that there was no need create a complex technique to targen the very existence to finally hit Gojo - He just needed to attack faster

How dumb he is

 

[Sir_sun_man]

oh so lets run this down

Gojo has superior AP: 514k tons vs Frans 327.74k tons

meaning he has better durability on top with low-mid regen that allows him to survive insane shit like sukunas domain meaning she will have a hard time actually killing him

Fran has the ability to bypass infinity with both master and the help of Urushi, but she has no resistence to matter manipulation, information manipulation and void manipulation and since she has no regeneration of her own I don't see her being able to stay in this fight for long as while fighting with broken bones is one thing but fighting with missing limbs is another and seeing how trigger happy gojo is with his big "**** you I win" moves her chances here are slim, if she is hit by purple which is something that is difficult to avoid for someone on gojo's level of speed, she is losing limbs and they are not coming back meaning that something like unlimited hollow would be a game ender for Fran in this fight.

And now lets get into the meat and potatoes, domain expansion, how does she do anything against it? I mean the moment it comes out its already, as it starts hitting you with information overload as seen in gojo V sukuna as sukuna being one hundreths of a second late got him hit with UV and slightly stunned him before his domain took effect and unlike sukuna who had a way to stop UV from having any further effect Fran as far as I can see on her profile has no real answer to domain expansion which is something gojo would use if the fight began to get difficult, I mean in every fight we've seen of him where he already developed Domain expansion it always came out and pretty early on too boot, so it is in character for gojo to open domain once he sees that Frans wolf and sword can bypass his infinity and at that point fran is Fi Fai ****** as she will be sent into a 6 month long coma in the first 0.2 seconds and at that point the fight is over but gojo can just hollow purple her for good measure as that thing destroys people who are more durable then him in one hit.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

That aside, as I said above, Fran has like 6 kinds of power that Gojo can't even perceive as far as I know. And since Infinity has to actually detect the stuff that is about to hit Gojo to activate, the defense just isn't active for her. (Not that it would be part of his blacklist to begin with)

I mean its not infinite speed but gojo in most fights has it fully on 24/7 so its not about him activating it, its about her actually passing a wall that is already in place.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Also about poisons, While infinity may or may not be able to detect them (we don't know if gojo ever fixed that issue and hey we ain't getting an answer to that now are w?) high level RCT users like gojo can purge poison out of their system, sorta similar to hakari but with less efficency since ya know they will have to take some time to find the poison in their system (but hey 6 eyes and enchances RCT that is on 24/7 should be able to deal with that pretty quick) so her poisons are not going to be doing to much after the first time they are found.

 

[Phoenks]

We're currently discussing how Sword Isekai power systems interact with Cursed Energy.
The result of that topic will then allow us to make better predictions for the fight.

However, I want to go over some things:

Gojo has superior AP: 514k tons vs Frans 327.74k tons

Fran/Master have multiple stat amps and buffs that make this difference negligible. Not that this was ever a fight where AP would matter in the first place.

This also applies to their speed, which would make it so Gojo wouldn't be able to land hits on them in the first place.

Fran has the ability to bypass infinity with both master and the help of Urushi, but she has no resistence to matter manipulation, information manipulation and void manipulation and since she has no regeneration of her own I don't see her being able to stay in this fight for long as while fighting with broken bones is one thing but fighting with missing limbs is another and seeing how trigger happy gojo is with his big "**** you I win" moves her chances here are slim, if she is hit by purple which is something that is difficult to avoid for someone on gojo's level of speed, she is losing limbs and they are not coming back meaning that something like unlimited hollow would be a game ender for Fran in this fight.

None of those techniques would be able to hit her if she buffs herself to the point of blitzing.

And now lets get into the meat and potatoes, domain expansion, how does she do anything against it?

Pretty sure Master can avoid it via space-time magic.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

None of those techniques would be able to hit her if she buffs herself to the point of blitzing.

Just want to point out that I am not in Sir's camp about her having anything that bypasses limitless btw.

Pretty sure Master can avoid it via space-time magic.

Naw, barriers are void manip at their base. Space-time stuff isn't near enough to resist. Even basic barriers can nullify concept type 2/soul/info type 2 stuff (unless you meant some sort of avoidance S/T to dodge).

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Pretty sure Master can avoid it via space-time magic.

What subconsiously? cuse the moment domain pops even for a second her ability to use her brain is out the window

 

[Shmooply]

phoenks beat me to the finish line

on top with low-mid regen that allows him to survive insane shit like sukunas domain meaning she will have a hard time actually killing him

high level RCT users like gojo can purge poison out of their system

RCT actually wouldn't be a wincon for Gojo, as both Master and Urushi have skills that negate Healing and Regen, and Master seems to have a pretty busted one at that if it negated a being that can regenerate from a fragment of itself.

 

[Phoenks]

What subconsiously? cuse the moment domain pops even for a second her ability to use her brain is out the window

They have like 10 different skills that allow them to sense oncoming dangers/attacks and appraise them before they happen.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Everything look nice till you ask for scans and context

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yep, know those scans. In fact, it does mention about him having difficulty with poison. Has he fixed that yet? Because Fran has a lot of poison. Magic poisons at that...

So far never stated or implied he Perfected it.

Also you gotta check this.
Funny thing he got hit by his own techniques explosion despite having Infinity active. I'm sure Gojo can't stop anything far beyond his perception.

Spoiler

Can't believe I'm finding people with the same unpopular Gojo take as me with infinity = based on perception

We live in a small world