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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

Antvasima said:
Well, your suggested naming procedure will be much harder for our members and visitors to keep track of and understand, and require a massive amount of work to properly update all of the page titles and links to them, so I personally prefer our current naming procedure.

In worst case we could always call it "Pre-Original Crisis" and "Post-Original Crisis", or "Pre-1985 Crisis" and "Post-1985 Crisis", but that would also require a lot of work, and we would need willing volunteers to carry it out.
Click to expand...
I gave the above response to your suggestion.
 
Again, just to be clear, no one is doing any form of DC revisions regarding the Sphere of Gods and the Orrery in the next 2 days?
 
Oliver_de_jesus said:
by the way, are the abilities/hax affected by the cosmology split? for example if a mystical being explains that a simple spell (Like Hellfire) is based on affecting the Soul and mind of the target, it could be escalated to others that can use hellfire but within another cosmology?
Click to expand...

Oliver_de_jesus said:
I speak about whether some powers that are based on the system of cosmology such as the way operation of magic or the Physiology of a mystical race

For example, in a story written by DeMatteis it is said that the Demon race are actually products created by the human Collective Unconscious and cannot die until humanity dies according to Etrigan, it could be said that this can be applied to all demons within any cosmology?
Click to expand...
 
Oliver_de_jesus said:
by the way, are the abilities/hax affected by the cosmology split? for example if a mystical being explains that a simple spell (Like Hellfire) is based on affecting the Soul and mind of the target, it could be escalated to others that can use hellfire but within another cosmology?
Click to expand...

Oliver_de_jesus said:
I speak about whether some powers that are based on the system of cosmology such as the way operation of magic or the Physiology of a mystical race

For example, in a story written by DeMatteis it is said that the Demon race are actually products created by the human Collective Unconscious and cannot die until humanity dies according to Etrigan, it could be said that this can be applied to all demons within any cosmology?
Click to expand...
Poke🧀
 
My answer would be generally, no, we do not crossover something like that into other verses.
 
1-C upgrades (I believe it hasn't even been a week since the downgrades)
vsbattles.com

DC Comics: follow-up upgrades (Part 1)

There is no way people unironically thought anything DC related can get remotely close to Tier 2 lmaoaoaoo rahhhh🇺🇸🇺🇸 These ratings are ass imo, there is no way the Godheads are simply Orrery level when it has been implied numerous times the Sphere defines all aspects of the framework of the...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
 
 
Antvasima said:
See here please:

Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Discussion Rules

VS Battles Wiki is a site where the members attempt to index the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. These efforts lead to much discussion about certain feats, statements and calculations regarding their validity, reliability, etc. However, certain topics keep popping...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

I have applied the discussed changes. Is it alright?
 
Just_a_Random_Butler said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Discussion Rules

VS Battles Wiki is a site where the members attempt to index the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. These efforts lead to much discussion about certain feats, statements and calculations regarding their validity, reliability, etc. However, certain topics keep popping...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

I have applied the discussed changes. Is it alright?
Click to expand...
I think so, but it would be best with confirmations from @Deagonx , @Elizio33 , and @IdiosyncraticLawyer .
 
Just a note that the following interview gives me great hope that James Gunn will treat Superman and other DC Comics characters very well. Grant Morrison has a great grasp of how they are at their best.

www.interviewmagazine.com

Grant Morrison - Interview Magazine

With two new series—perhaps his bleakest yet—the groovy magus of comics proves yet again to be the great polymath visionary of the form.
www.interviewmagazine.com www.interviewmagazine.com
 
Antvasima said:
Just a note that the following interview gives me great hope that James Gunn will treat Superman and other DC Comics characters very well. Grant Morrison has a great grasp of how they are at their best.

www.interviewmagazine.com

Grant Morrison - Interview Magazine

With two new series—perhaps his bleakest yet—the groovy magus of comics proves yet again to be the great polymath visionary of the form.
www.interviewmagazine.com www.interviewmagazine.com
Click to expand...
Completely agreed. One of my favourite interviews of all time.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
Currently, we have profiles with "Post-Crisis", "Post-Flashpoint" and "Rebirth" names.

How about we change them to the original and official name?

Pre Crisis -> Earth One.

Post Crisis -> New Earth.

Post Flashopoint -> Prime Earth.

Rebirth -> Prime Earth - Rebirth.

Superman's Rebirth profile would become "Superman (Prime Earth - Rebirth)"

Prime Earth nomenclature includes both N52 and Rebirth phases, so it should be fine.
Click to expand...
I mean that's what DC Wiki has been doing since a very long time, so it strikes me a lot how come we haven't been doing it as well. But in all honestly, in my opinion we should keep the original format because even if we simplify which universe those characters are from, there are still multiple versions of those characters from those universes for example look at Superman.
Superman (disambiguation)
 
Last edited:
Publication history of Superman

While Wikipedia's format of Superman isn't all that accurate, but at least they are being specifically by mentioning that they are talking about Clark Kent/Kal-El version of Superman and not any other versions of Supermen. So I guess we can follow Wikipedia's format instead?
 
Antvasima said:
I think so, but it would be best with confirmations from @Deagonx , @Elizio33 , and @IdiosyncraticLawyer .
Click to expand...
It's good. Now, moving on, I wanted to look over the tiers on the cosmology page to see if they're adequately explained.

Grant Morrison's/Scott Snyder's/James Tynion IV's Cosmology​

  1. The Orrery of Worlds is 2-C for containing 52 universes and Hypertime is 2-A for storing infinite universes. This is straightforward with no further elaboration needed.
  2. The Sphere of the Gods is 2-C for containing 8 realms that exist on a higher plane of existence than the Orrery and Hypertime but without evidence for qualitative superiority. Straightforward enough.
  3. The Fifth Dimension is 5D Low 1-C because it transcends the multiverse's 4D axis and the Monitor Sphere is also 5D Low 1-C because it sits slightly higher than the Fifth Dimension. Straightforward enough.
  4. The Sixth Dimension is 6D Low 1-C because it dwarfs everything else in creation, even the Fifth Dimension. Straightforward enough.
  5. Monitor-Mind The Overvoid/The Source/The Presence is 7D 1-C because it entirely transcends the entire DC cosmology and views it as a small "flaw" in its infinite consciousness. Straightforward enough.
Overall, this cosmology is straightforward in its tiers and requires no immediate rewriting.

J.M. DeMatteis' Cosmology​

  1. The multiverse is 2-A because there are infinite universes. No explanation is needed.
  2. Heaven is 5D Low 1-C because it transcends the material realms with days and places that transcend days and places. Simple enough.
  3. The totality of creation is High 1-B. I've already explained why this rating is invalid and is just a holdover from before the discussion finished, so that part of the paragraph should be removed.
  4. Mahapralaya/Pralaya/Sea of Brahma is Low 1-C, possibly 1-C, but I fail to see how its explanation can justify that. It exists as the infinite ocean that dwarfs and birthed creation, which is sufficient justification for 6D Low 1-C if we remove High 1-B from the equation, but I don't see where "possibly 1-C" comes from.
  5. The Divine Presence/The Smile/God is 1-C, possibly High 1-C, but again, I fail to see how its explanation can justify that. It exists as the ultimate reality that transcends even Mahapralaya, which is sufficient justification for 7D 1-C if we accept my interpretation of Mahapralaya, but I don't see where "possibly High 1-C" comes from. Even as it now stands, "possibly High 1-C" doesn't seem warranted, as Mahapralaya's "possibly 1-C" doesn't specify to what degree.
I believe at least three things in this cosmology need a rewrite (Remove High 1-B, make Mahapralaya/Pralaya/Sea of Brahma 6D Low 1-C, make The Divine Presence/The Smile/God 7D 1-C), the first of which staff has already agreed to.

Vertigo's Cosmology​

  1. The Presence's creation is 2-A for having infinite timelines. This section is extremely barebones with no scans displayed on the page, and its justification seems a bit weak (Having infinite possible futures doesn't exactly imply infinite timelines).
  2. Heaven, Silver City, and Hell are 5D Low 1-C because they transcend and dwarf creation. Simple enough, and my gripes with 2-A's justification don't affect this because transcending anything in Tier 2 is Low 1-C.
  3. Beyond this point, Vertigo's cosmology explanation is longer than the other two by a wide margin, so I'll just summarize my gripes quickly. A lot of the characters in this section are Low 1-C, possibly 1-C, and the final entity is 1-C, which seems inadequately explained for just about all of them, so I'll need someone to walk me through the tiers and explain.
This cosmology is probably the least readable of the three on the page right now and needs some major reformatting to make it more understandable, which I don't know where to begin with.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
I believe at least three things in this cosmology need a rewrite (Remove High 1-B, make Mahapralaya/Pralaya/Sea of Brahma 6D Low 1-C, make The Divine Presence/The Smile/God 7D 1-C), the first of which staff has already agreed to.
Click to expand...
Sure, that's fine.

IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
The Presence's creation is 2-A for having infinite timelines. This section is extremely barebones with no scans displayed on the page, and its justification seems a bit weak (Having infinite possible futures doesn't exactly imply infinite timelines).
Click to expand...
The scan of the many Lucifers in the void would indicate that the possibilities are real, but to a certain extent each of the cosmologies utilizes some baseline information that is present throughout the verse, even if it is not specified clearly within one of the authors cosmologies. Infinite timelines for each universe is more or less a baseline assumption.

IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
Beyond this point, Vertigo's cosmology explanation is longer than the other two by a wide margin, so I'll just summarize my gripes quickly. A lot of the characters in this section are Low 1-C, possibly 1-C, and the final entity is 1-C, which seems inadequately explained for just about all of them, so I'll need someone to walk me through the tiers and explain
Click to expand...
My understanding is it concerns whether or not Elaine, the Presence, Lucifer, and Michael should be treated as having superiority to the Silver City, and if they scale to the void.
 
Deagonx said:
There are no indications of Nil being a higher level of infinity to the Fifth Dimension.
Click to expand...
Im saying how does the Monitor sphere sit above the Fifth Dimension when we know Mxy showed the entire map when he claimed it runs on imagination.

Not that honestly that scan was accurate to begin with, the fact that Mxy showed the Source wall as a part of the realms defined by imagination when we know according to Snyder that the Fifth Dimension is like below the Source wall by a bit.
 
NHTkenshin2 said:
Im saying how does the Monitor sphere sit above the Fifth Dimension when we know Mxy showed the entire map when he claimed it runs on imagination.

Not that honestly that scan was accurate to begin with, the fact that Mxy showed the Source wall as a part of the realms defined by imagination when we know according to Snyder that the Fifth Dimension is like below the Source wall by a bit.
Click to expand...
The specifics are debatable depending on who you ask, but what's important is that they aren't treated as two separate levels of infinity.
 
Deagonx said:
The specifics are debatable depending on who you ask, but what's important is that they aren't treated as two separate levels of infinity.
Click to expand...
I have not mentioned any levels of infinity. I am talking about why the Monitor Sphere scales to the Fifth dimension. I assume it has something to do with the Monitors being fractions of Mar Novu?
 
NHTkenshin2 said:
I have not mentioned any levels of infinity
Click to expand...
I'm aware, I am saying for the sake of cosmological scaling, that's really the only important part.

NHTkenshin2 said:
I am talking about why the Monitor Sphere scales to the Fifth dimension. I assume it has something to do with the Monitors being fractions of Mar Novu?
Click to expand...
They could both be said to transcend the Orrery.
 
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