I want to note that it wasn't my intention to derail the thread or override scaling that was already agreed upon. if perpetua is accepted to be low 1-c, then that' that. I was just pointing out something to be taken into consideration later when the revision is mostly over
There was only a single universe at the begining. it became a multiverse overtime with possibilities. that's why it was stated that she created the multiverse, it doesn't mean she created infinite universes at once. other two realms (anti matter and dark matter) created later by her, so it's still a universal level reality warping feat.I partially agree with your point of view but Perpetua with the Totality created the multiverse (I still believe that she made the Sixth Dimension as the "penthouse" and "control room" of her creation but whatever) and it has been said many times that she can rearrange the multiverse in her image, hence the reason for 2-A, at least Low 1-C with the Totality. The 2-A tier is because she scales above the Ultra-Monitor whose power is unlike anything the Anti-Monitor has felt before, which should include the power state that he had when he was about to obliterate the infinite universes at the dawn of time. Anyway, let's wait until we make another crt to talk about all of this. This one seems to have achieved consensus and should not be overloaded with derailment.
So no Low 1-C, but rather low 2-C possible 2-C with amp
In morrsion's JLA run, it was explicitly showed that imps view 3D reality as 2D which proves qualitative superiority.
Like Yahweh, he doesn't but the thing is Lucifer can have a lot more freedom and flexibility than most beings in the Void. Even the Jin En Moks. Michael can create from nothing and Lucifer can materialize anything into shape. However, the Void will always be bigger. Yahweh is the Void as mentioned several times in #75.
That's true, she created three realms constituting her multiverse and possibly the Sixth Dimension as well. The World Forger created each universe inhabiting her multiverse afterwards. Regardless, here are some feats of the following characters:
I was talking when the Anti-Monitor gets sufficiently amped by heroes life forces to erase the positive matter multiverse from history, a very questionable 2-B feat.
Actually 2-C is fine. There is no indication there that she created sixth dimension.
One by one and it doesn't even mention TDK. Hypertime was dying for some reason from the begining of story.
It's bit questionable feat and I don't think WF outright created an infinite number of timelines, he could create it through using infinite possibilities.
It was stated that WF use energies in World Forge to make realities and He can't do anything without his hammer.
Yeah and I was talking the same. It's not a multiversal feat at all.
Nothing suggests otherwise either, she could very well have created the Sixth Dimension as a penthouse and control room for her multiverse.
2-C, possibly Low 1-C is a good rating and this is very good. This should be “at least” the final hearing. We can always add some stuff later. I also asked another Metal expert who is unbias and very knowledgeable and he recommends your exact rating. Although I don't think anyone has ever considered the 6D her “Creation.” I ask the three most knowledgeable people I know and none of them agree to her creating the 6th Dimension.
2-C, possibly Low 1-C with the Totality seems reasonable to me. You all already know my opinion as to whether Perpetua created the Sixth Dimension or not, if the Sixth Dimension is the highest plane of existence and the control room of the multiverse, perhaps it makes sense that she created it, but I think most people here agrees that she didn't, so I wouldn't argue.
I think at this point we shouldn't implement many changes for Synder/Morrison after we update the tiers. However, it might be great if we move on to the others in case we missed anything from the other Cosmology.
question is
I thought Lucifer possibly became the void in #75
It's funny that people argue about it but it never happened.
No way im treating Holly Black's Lucifer as canon to volume 1 tho
Ah i see
The funny thing is Gabriel killed God but they discarded this when they changed writers and when Holly Black wasn't in control. So they retcon that God is not his reincarnation but someone else entirely trying to be the old God that the angels perceived to be dead due to Metatron's influence. However, it is technically the follow-up of Carey's runs. Watters is not a part of that anthology but it is Lucifer just during a different time and with a different approach. Their all Lucifer Morningstar in expectation to Demon Knights.
Ok its true that it is a follow up of carey's run but its just so inconsistent and garbage to be taken literally
There shouldn't be a separate key because they all are Lucifer. Although it doesn't follow the approach of Carey. Watters, Lucifer is still technically in Sandman continuity because he we see him in Sandman: Universe Vol.1 #1 and some references to the Endless. Not to mention he exists in all continuity because his not affected by flashpoints or any reboot. It would have to be a straight rewrite that doesn't follow up like Demon Knights which follows the Demon and has a weird approach to Lucifer.
We're going to start a new thread that focus solely on the feats that got significant staff approval to evaluate them once more, since the massive amount of feats in the original thread made it hard to give appropriate attention to each one, and now there's too many posts for staff that haven't seen it yet to reasonably go through.
Yeah you are right. Just speaking, nothing set in stone and just for fun until the next crt, here are my thoughts on how characters should be tiered based on their feats and scaling.
With Mandrakk and CAS, they shouldn't scale to Nil. Being a resident of Nil doesn't really grant you are tier so much to say because they scale to it. Being from a specific plane shouldn't really grant that same tier.
@Elizio33 most recent tier update should be sufficient and most of us agreed with it. Later implementation of tiers can come after as you said.
I think it is this one.
Okay, that sandbox now has the updated tiers. We could transpose it to an official blog post once Antvasima is ready.
Okay good
what are we going to do after that
We will need to update all of the profiles of characters affected by the revision.
Nothing is set in stone, so if you want to revise the tiering in another crt in the near future, you can if you wish.
It was originally 1-A, but I am not 100% on where the discussion went from there. The thread got pretty messy. We decided that this lower set of tiers was in an acceptable ball park, and to conclude the matter for the sake of brevity since with 20+ tiers to debate, it was not practical to reach a thorough consensus about all of them. There will likely be future CRTs on many of the matters that can be examined in greater detail to determine the best tier.
Possibly High 1-C comes from the countless planes of existence and Mahapralaya embedded in the Divine Presence dream. Even though there is no solid evidence that supports these planes of existence as higher infinities, the Heavens and the Collective Unconscious are beyond time-space and human comprehension. Furthermore, Indra's Fourth Heaven contains places that transcend places and days that transcend days.
