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Marvel & DC rules on minimum appearance count

No. Policy revisions means exactly that, anything written about our official standards, policies, and rules, including rule pages for significant individual verses, along with any major changes to our wiki as a whole. That's it.

Being able to veto these types of potentially dangerous and/or destructive changes is all that makes my management of this community even remotely manageable, rather than forcing me to throw up my hands into the air in exasperation and completely lose my motivation to continue, regardless if some of you consider it personally beneficial to cripple me in this regard.
 
Being able to veto these types of potentially dangerous and/or destructive changes is all that makes my management of this community even remotely manageable, rather than forcing me to throw up my hands into the air in exasperation and completely lose my motivation to continue, regardless if some of you consider it personally beneficial to cripple me in this regard.
Because people totally want to work on a verse that they have direct evidence can have any CRT vetoed if you don't like it
This surely will not kill the verse
 
Your fanaticism with Marvel and DC is slowly blinding you into abusing your power as a bureaucrat to veto and stop whatever you don't agree with, and that's dangerous.
Nope. I have been extremely reasonable in several recent content revision threads regarding them, considering how much I disagreed at the start. I am referring to policy changes only, not regular content revisions, regardless of which forum they have been placed in.
 
Because people totally want to work on a verse that they have direct evidence can have any CRT vetoed if you don't like it
This surely will not kill the verse
Except that this is not what I have advocated for at all. I just wanted to put rules about veto rights regarding changes to our official standards, safeguards, rules, and conventions that we have had for many years down into writing, since it is absolutely crucial for me to not get completely overwhelmed.
 
No. Policy revisions means exactly that, anything written about our official standards, policies, and rules, including rule pages for significant individual verses, along with any major changes to our wiki as a whole. That's it.

Being able to veto these types of potentially dangerous and/or destructive changes is all that makes my management of this community even remotely manageable, rather than forcing me to throw up my hands into the air in exasperation and completely lose my motivation to continue, regardless if some of you consider it personally beneficial to cripple me in this regard.
The bolded part has never been a thing. Ever. Policy revisions involve official standards and rules for the general site as a whole. That's all well and good. Once you start branching into individual verses, though, you start approaching very dangerous territory.

In addition, why do you think this is a matter of people "wanting to cripple you in this regard" rather than taking legitimate issue with what could very well be an overreach of power? I, for one, have no reason to want to do so. Hell, I barely know Marvel and DC as is outside of a few movies I've watched (which would be MCU and DCEU rather than the Comics). I just find this to be a very concerning usage of the veto power.
 
Nope. I have been extremely reasonable in several recent content revision threads regarding them, considering how much I disagreed at the start. I am referring to policy changes only, not regular content revisions, regardless of which forum they have been placed in.
If there's something you have not been reasonable about is the content revisions threads regarding these two verses. There is a DC Herald Thread on hold because you kept disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing and they had to stop and make a huge reply to answer everything. I'm sure you even got a report from it, but that's irrelevent given your position.

Poilicy changes refer to site wide revisions like Tiering System changes, Standard Formarts for profiles and whanot. But it seems that everyone here fails to understand how and why do you want to apply this same veto system to verse policies, as they have nothing to do with site policies.

This thread in particular does not in any circunstance falls under a site policy change and you vetoing it opens a precedent that we are not ready to face.
 
The bolded part has never been a thing. Ever. Policy revisions involve official standards and rules for the general site as a whole. That's all well and good. Once you start branching into individual verses, though, you start approaching very dangerous territory.

In addition, why do you think this is a matter of people "wanting to cripple you in this regard" rather than taking legitimate issue with what could very well be an overreach of power? I, for one, have no reason to want to do so. Hell, I barely know Marvel and DC as is outside of a few movies I've watched (which would be MCU and DCEU rather than the Comics). I just find this to be a very concerning usage of the veto power.
This is about official rule pages. That's it, not regular revisions.
If there's something you have not been reasonable about is the content revisions threads regarding these two verses. There is a DC Herald Thread on hold because you kept disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing and they had to stop and make a huge reply to answer everything. I'm sure you even got a report from it, but that's irrelevent given your position.
I already stated repeatedly that I accepted the DC heralds revision after Emirp assembled much better evidence. It is on hold because Emirp hasn't had the time to continue with it yet.

I also adjusted my viewpoint regarding Ultima's major upgrade of Marvel Comics, despite disagreeing greatly in the beginning.
Poilicy changes refer to site wide revisions like Tiering System changes, Standard Formarts for profiles and whanot. But it seems that everyone here fails to understand how and why do you want to apply this same veto system to verse policies, as they have nothing to do with site policies.

This thread in particular does not in any circunstance falls under a site policy change and you vetoing it opens a precedent that we are not ready to face.
It is an extremely significant policy change for an official rule page that would long-term spam us with extremely unreliable pages for minor characters. I do not understand why this would not qualify.
 
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I am extremely uncomfortable to even participate here, and am in agreement with M3X, Armor, Clover and Tllmbrg's thoughts that this specific discussion would result in a very damming precedent.

We should go back to discussing the OP topic properly, let the veto talks to its own thread.
 
My stance remains the same, though I will reiterate once more that you're free to take my opinion with a grain of salt given my lack of investment in Marvel and DC stuff
 
That seems like a good idea.

I still think that Impress and Confluctor made very good points above.
Thank you for at least understanding our concerns.

Me personally, while I find their points compelling (specially since they even apply to me, as I don't have the means nor time to properly invest on these verses as much as I would like), I am of the opinion we shouldn't reject positive change out of fear. Multiple people have straight proposed they would like to handle these things, but can't precisely because of the strictness of these rules as they are now. As such, we should try to meet in the middle.
 
Well, I already tried to meet in the middle by greatly lessening the appearance requirements for extremely notable characters from significant event storylines, as long as they are easy and coherent to scale.
 
I still don't agree with this because, like I've said before, there's lots of verses that require a MASSIVE amount of work due to the sheer number of entities (Lots of long-running japanese media, Pokemon, Dungeons and Dragons) and while you could argue a lot of them suffer for it, we're at least allowed to try and create those pages, hm?
Yes and im sure that simillar rule could be made for every verse but its not the first time a rule is made for specific verses, there is still a "rule" to not try to scale kaguya to the size of her dimensions, and i think there was a rule for Bleach too if im not mistaken, those rules were made because the staff was tired of many CRT's arguing so a rule was created to make it easier. This is not so different, and overall Marvel and DC have so many characters that probably could multiply the size of the wiki pages by at least 2 times and this is not counting teams, items, civilizations ect.
Managing CRTs for the small characters is annoying, yes, but...that's literally already a thing that happens, all the time. If we started to disallow pages because no one is knowledgeable enough to approve CRTs on it, we would nuke a lot more than Marvel & DC I feel. Regarding forgotten pages, we just delete them like we do for everything else; there's a lot of entire verses that are almost entirely forgotten, yet making pages for them isn't outright disallowed.
Im not talking exacly about "small characters" mostly im talking about not popular verses or characters even if they are big deal like i said Huma torch, Namor and even Mar-Vell all of which had a lot of comics yetthey can be forgoten. Small verses have problems with Staff members sure but because they are small its much easier to maintain the scales and the votes from the knowledged members, butfor "small characters" from big verses like Marvel and DC its much harder some of those minor characters might end up messing with scaling for example a villain that fought spiderman once and then show up fighting Thor again, how are you gonna scale him without making something like Spiderman relative to Thor? This is obviosly an hyperbole to prove a point but eventhose "semi consistent" scaling might end up messing with multiple characters that are not supposed to be scaled like that. IT will be a mess to keep track of so many characters while its already hard to keep the current scalings from falling.
 
Well, I already tried to meet in the middle by greatly lessening the appearance requirements for extremely notable characters from significant event storylines, as long as they are easy and coherent to scale.
A good first step, but your fellow staff feel you aren't listening to em.

Still, I also urge the rest of you to maintain proper discussion. Ant has shown willingness to at least hear ya. Now is the time to discuss.
 
Yes and im sure that simillar rule could be made for every verse but its not the first time a rule is made for specific verses, there is still a "rule" to not try to scale kaguya to the size of her dimensions, and i think there was a rule for Bleach too if im not mistaken, those rules were made because the staff was tired of many CRT's arguing so a rule was created to make it easier. This is not so different, and overall Marvel and DC have so many characters that probably could multiply the size of the wiki pages by at least 2 times and this is not counting teams, items, civilizations ect.
First, those are discussion rules about what topics can be raised, which are wholly divorced from editing rules for what profiles can be made. Second, I'm fairly certain I've eliminated that rule about Naruto recently.
 
First, those are discussion rules about what topics can be raised, which are wholly divorced from editing rules for what profiles can be made. Second, I'm fairly certain I've eliminated that rule about Naruto recently.
The reason why those rules were made and this one is the same reduce workload which is my point.
As for Naruto if you dont like that example pretty sure there was a thread for a rule against the laser guy in My hero academia, this one specifically shows my point Damage made this thread because staff was tired of so many FTL threads of My hero academia.
 
We should switch that example to where Slade managed to stab the Flash by anticipating where he was going to go, since that was also extremely ridiculous.
Isn't there a character well known In the Flash's rogues gallery who's whole thing is anal predicting the flash?
 
In general the character should be arguably significant to the overall narrative or certain storylines.

If anything appearance would just be a supporting factor, not the be all end all.
 
In general the character should be arguably significant to the overall narrative or certain storylines.

If anything appearance would just be a supporting factor, not the be all end all.
I suppose that this may be an idea.

@The_Impress @Confluctor @Armorchompy @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Lonkitt @CloverDragon03 @LephyrTheRevanchist @M3X_2.0 @Tllmbrg @Deagonx @Elizio33 @Eficiente @Maverick_Zero_X @CrimsonStarFallen @LordTracer @Elizhaa @Marvel_Champion_07 @Colonel_Krukov @Damage3245

Do you have any suggested specific wording changes? Balanced and well-considered solutions are much preferable.
 
Alot of discussion happened it seems, most of which is redundant.

Again I'll repeat I think people who actively engage with the verse and WILL CONTINUE to engage with the verse should have a say, really. The rule is made for verse management purposes since Marvel is a verse whose ratings are susceptible to getting reworked every other week, and frankly DnD doesn't have that active a revision community NOR does Marvel have people as dedicated to the verse as Bambu is to DnD, anymore anyways. If you disagree vehemently as someone who works on the verse, you can cast a disagree.

No need to veto anything, you can draw up new standards for it if you want if you reach a fair enough consensus within the community.

Also in regards to 20 issues, it wasn't meant to be a hard line as it is understood and is "approximately around 20 issues" in practice, since it represents 2 years worth of appearances, which was deemed significant enough by the community at the time. If you disagree with there being a number given to "enough appearances to be considered recurring" go for it, ig. But then the issue was pages getting deleted because people just "felt it was low" and the standards of it changing every time almost, as members went and by, so the baseline was put to PREVENT that.

Just like y'all are trying to change up nearly everything wrt the verse from my era, same thing will probably happen to your era in an year or so, so having some form of rules aren't a bad idea to estimate what the previous community's intention was, because maybe you don't want some fella two years from now wiping out half your pagecounts behind your back because they felt the character "seemed minor", especially if it's a page with some amount of work put in.

Anyways I'll be checking out from here since I got reminded of literally anything else I can do, so g'bye. Happy debating (and please irreparably destroy the wiki it'd be funny)
 
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Well, I think that the above sentiment about not making 20 issues into a hard line seems sensible at least, and much of the other views in the above post as well, except for destroying our wiki.

Changing the wording of our rules to allow characters that are very significant and easy to scale, but have a lesser number of appearances, also seems sensible.
 
Sorry I totally forgot about this. I will discuss with some members off-site for a better wording, and then post the draft here for evaluation.
 
Okay. Thank you for helping out. 🙏

Please remember that we strive to be more flexible here, but also to still have reliable safeguards in place so we do not get swarmed by many hundreds of minor characters that cannot be scaled coherently.
 
This is the current one:
For the Prime Marvel Universe, please refrain from making profiles for characters with less than 20 appearances across comic books (approximately 2 years' worth of appearances). For DC Comics, refrain from making profiles for Golden Age characters with less than 5 appearances, Pre-Crisis characters with less than 15 appearances and Post-Crisis or Post-Flashpoint characters with less than 10 appearances, unless they play an extremely important part in the scaling of other characters, as the constantly changing nature of their statistics make it hard for us to keep files updated as is.
This is my draft:
When creating profiles for both Marvel Comics and DC Comics, make sure to adhere to the following rules and criteria:
  • The character, equipment, or key has to be relevant for the storyline they are in or relevant for the verse as a whole, despite their number of appearances.
  • The number of appearances of a certain character is used as supporting evidence for the creation of the profile or key and is not a determining factor.
  • If the profile in question presents relevant scaling for other characters but doesn't meet the storyline criteria, it is still acceptable to be created.
These rules apply to all eras of comic-book publishing, such as the Silver Age, Golden Age and Modern Era.
For comic characters from different timelines or universes or simply not related to the mainstream, I think they should follow regular rules and not adhere to these above. Such as Millerverse Batman.
 
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These rules apply to all eras of comic-book publishing, such as the Silver Age, Golden Age and Modern Era.
Adjust your version to mines. The rest seems fine (Formatting/Language)
 
I more had something similar to this draft in mind:

"We also have some safety restrictions for the sake of finding sufficient consistency to scale from, and not have our wiki spammed by many hundreds of pages for very minor characters with extremely unreliable scaling. The constantly changing nature of the power levels and other statistics for characters from story to story, and differing preferences in relative power levels between writer to writer also make it hard for us to keep our pages for these verses updated and reliable as is.
  • For Marvel Comics, it is usually best to refrain from creating profile pages for characters with less than 20 appearances across comic books, or approximately 2 years worth of appearances.
  • For DC Comics, it is usually best to refrain from making profiles for Golden Age characters with less than 5 appearances, Pre-Crisis characters with less than 15 appearances and Post-Crisis or Post-Flashpoint characters with less than 10 appearances.
  • However, exceptions for the above guidelines can quite often be made if characters with a more limited number of appearances play an highly important part in the scaling of more notable other characters, or are extremely significant during very prominent storylines, and are quite easy/self-evident to determine the statistics for."
 
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I tried to write a rough outline for a compromise solution draft. We do need some form of safeguards, but shouldn't be inflexible with them, so I tried to accommodate for that.

If there are specific sensible improvements that you want to suggest, we can try to collaborate.
 
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