The DC Comics Cosmology Revision Project - Part 3

[Antvasima]

Hello.

The third phase of our DC Comics revision project will determine the tiering for the accepted divisions in the cosmology. Our current blog provides three cosmologies, Vertigo, DeMatteis, and Snyder/Morrison, with a 'Williamson Cosmology' being tentatively outlined, which does not need to be tiered yet.

This thread is for assessing the tiers of the three cosmologies, and reaching a community consensus on the matter. Due to the practical limitations of such a large discussion, it is strongly advised that only critical objections are brought forth that would result in significant tiering changes, so that the staff and knowledgeable members are not overencumbered.

With that said, here is the link to our current cosmology blog, and the matter is now open for discussion.

DC Comics Cosmology Revision Project - Suggestion 2

vsbattles.fandom.com

As before, participation in this thread will be limited to staff, project members, and regular members who are knowledgeable about the verse, if they contact a member of our staff for permission. This discussion will be strictly moderated, so any comments that are off-topic or toxic will be removed, and those who repeatedly post them will be barred from further participation, in order to focus on productive discussion.

 

[Antvasima]

Project members:

@Deagonx @Eficiente @Elizio33 @Firestorm808 @Kerfuffles2 @LuciferDC099 @Planck69 @PrinceofPein @Sandman31

Staff:

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X

Your input would be very appreciated here. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Planck69]

Been following up on this for a while (even if IRL has made it difficult) so I agree with the ratings more or less. Neutral on the Williamson Cosmology but I'm not opposed to it, since I haven't really touched DC Comics for a couple years now and am not too sure of the current cosmic status quo.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for the support.

 

[Deagonx]

It goes without saying that I support the blog.

I think it's important to keep in mind that nothing in this blog, or on the wiki in general, is set in stone. It can always be changed later with a CRT. There are over 20 tiering recommendations in the blog post and it is not terribly practical to handle every possible disagreement for every single one of them in this thread, so I encourage people to focus on very crucial objections, if any exist. For the blog itself I think it's a perfectly adequate starting point for a long-term community-driven improvement of the split cosmology. The members of the project did the best we could with the time and resources we had in trying to map out such a vast cosmology, but there's no such thing as a perfect profile so there is plenty of room to grow, with added details, correcting potential oversights, calculating things differently, et cetera.

I am just hoping that no one uses this thread as the primary battleground for their personal tiering agenda and instead relegates the majority of their efforts to developing CRTs for later on. Given the scope of the project it could bog us down indefinitely if that approach is taken, and we have already spent quite a long time getting here.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Deagonx.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The blog looks good to me.

 

[Firestorm808]

I have no issues off the top of my head with the current blog.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for your evaluations.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'm not knowledgeable on DC's cosmology so my thoughts aren't much but I don't have much of an issue and if the knowledgeable members think it's ok then I'm fine with it.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for your evaluation.

 

[Deagonx]

I've read your current blog. I want to ask a few things that I've mixed feelings. The presence being ultimate maker of all creations inside vertigo cosmology. I think in your blog, you said "The presence only created one creation". But I think the presence is the supreme being of vertigo cosmology and created all creations inside it. Here's why. Every appearence of the presence is just an aspect of him -

Strictly speaking, I don't disagree, but the crucial hiccup is this scan:

"To argue about whether this creation came before or after Yahweh's [creation] is futile." It's not easy to imagine an interpretation of this that does not involve Yahweh only having created the one creation.

What I want to know is "Is another time a creation?" and "Are there different makers with different characteristics that distinct from the presence?" and "If another time is a creation, then lucifer saw many of himself in the void right? So, other makers also created lucifer in their own creation? That doesn't make this monopoly dude is just an aspect and all other makers are all aspects and there'll be some higher oneness divine being which is the true form?" Also the presence being shaped by external forces is only the appereance of the presence (the aspects) or the true form itself? I'm asking this cuz dream related stories have this kind of template where mortals see the endless family memebers as their races.

So "creation" refers to an entire multiverse, timelines and all. I see your point about the various versions of Lucifer, but I'm not sure it maps out to that meaning all of the various creations are Yahweh's.

Also: Try not to post full scans directly as images in your comment. They end up taking too much space and can become hard to read.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. I am uncomfortable with allowing an entirely new member who apparently solely joined this forum to participate in this specific discussion, and attempted to do so with at least 4 very differently named accounts at almost the same time, should be allowed to hijack this very important thread.

Perhaps it was a bad call for me to have allowed one of those accounts to join this forum when As1rea101 asked me to? Especially as they deceptively asked me to accept one of their other accounts as well via another wiki account, which would have counted as sockpuppeting.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:Antvasima?threadId=4400000000003510193

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:Antvasima?threadId=4400000000003510252

 

[Antvasima]

I have banned them.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I thought I did reject those other accounts (Save for 1), but I suppose it is a good call and it is suspicious that commenting on a staff thread was his first contribution yes. He may not have sounded harmful, but the attempts to make multiple accounts and being new despite showcasing some ability to write lengthy organized essays despite claiming that English isn't very good. That is all suspicious.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, and the dishonest use of multiple accounts just to instantly join an important discussion as well.

 

[Robo432343]

Okay where does 1-A Vertigo come from exactly? the blog says that its beyond spacetime but that doesn't qualify for a 1-A rating anymore. Transcending the hierarchy of a Low 1-C cosmology is not 1-A either...

 

[Samael_010]

Okay where does 1-A Vertigo come from exactly? the blog says that its beyond spacetime but that doesn't qualify for a 1-A rating anymore. Transcending the hierarchy of a Low 1-C cosmology is not 1-A either...

composite stuff maybe

 

[PrinceofPein]

Okay where does 1-A Vertigo come from exactly? the blog says that its beyond spacetime but that doesn't qualify for a 1-A rating anymore. Transcending the hierarchy of a Low 1-C cosmology is not 1-A either...

It does not just transcend it, but it acts like some sort of background for it

 

[Robo432343]

It does not just transcend it, but it acts like some sort of background for it

Yeah....a backround for a low 1-C cosmology
if it was a background for a low 1-a or high 1-b cosmology then that would have been 1-A

 

[Deleted member 2530]

Yeah....a backround for a low 1-C cosmology
if it was a background for a low 1-a or high 1-b cosmology then that would have been 1-A

Probably from "So all things are layered on themselves endlessly, and perception twists around its own axis endlessly"
If we are talking about the Void transcending then all these infinite repetition of Creations fail to amount anything more than 0 to it.

 

[Robo432343]

Probably from "So all things are layered on themselves endlessly, and perception twists around its own axis endlessly"
If we are talking about the Void transcending then all these infinite repetition of Creations fail to amount anything more than 0 to it.

but...the infinite repetitions of creations would be like Low 1-C. And the void transcending that would still not be enough for 1-A

 

[PrinceofPein]

Yeah....a backround for a low 1-C cosmology
if it was a background for a low 1-a or high 1-b cosmology then that would have been 1-A

No and again read this things to contexts
It is a background in the sense that no matter what or how much you expand the creation, it transcends it

but...the infinite repetitions of creations would be like Low 1-C. And the void transcending that would still not be enough for 1-A

Did you read what he said or you just want to drag things in circle?
So "all things layered on themselves endless"

 

[Robo432343]

No and again read this things to contexts
It is a background in the sense that no matter what or how much you expand the creation, it transcends it

thats the controversial bit

i asked about this in another thread and no one seems to know what is going on

does the tiering system or FAQ say this qualifies for 1-A??

 

[PrinceofPein]

thats the controversial bit

i asked about this in another thread and no one seems to know what is going on

does the tiering system or FAQ say this qualifies for 1-A??

A good way to accomplish this would be to show that whatever state of being in which they exist is completely independent of the number of layers/dimensions present on the setting. For example, if they are unaffected by dimensions being arbitrarily added or removed from physical space by virtue of transcending it entirely, or if they exist as a "background" or canvas of sorts in which any amount of them can be inserted. This argument generalizes to tiers higher than 1-A as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am personally very uncertain about keeping that part of our tiering system, as it can likely potentially be used to apply very exaggerated tiers based on vague information, but for the moment we have to follow our official guidelines.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well, I am personally very uncertain about keeping that part of our tiering system, as it can likely potentially be used to apply very exaggerated tiers based on vague information, but for the moment we have to follow our official guidelines.

Possibly, but so far I have tried to disagree with any verse that wants to use it to inflate their stats, and also they need to make a very strong argument to qualify for this.
Reason why here they are Possibly 1-A even though they qualify

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Robo432343]

Possibly, but so far I have tried to disagree with any verse that wants to use it to inflate their stats, and also they need to make a very strong argument to qualify for this.
Reason why here they are Possibly 1-A even though they qualify

Yo, the void is straight up 1-A, not a possibly rating according to the blog. It's only the people who can affect the void that gets a possible 1-A rating because we don't know at what extent they can affect it to.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

what makes grant morrison comsology 1A cause nothing i see for it qualifies as 1A. Being beyond space time doesn`t get 1A and being beyond dual concepts is just tranduality

 

[PrinceofPein]

Yo, the void is straight up 1-A, not a possibly rating according to the blog. It's only the people who can affect the void that gets a possible 1-A rating because we don't know at what extent they can affect it to.

void is a place and does not have a profile here, the people who can affect it tho do, so they have the possibly

 

[Robo432343]

void is a place and does not have a profile here, the people who can affect it tho do, so they have the possibly

I mean i have an argument of Lucifer having a solid 1-A rating instead of a possibly

infinity is meaningless to him. the void is infinite. GG?

 

[PrinceofPein]

I mean i have an argument of Lucifer having a solid 1-A rating instead of a possibly

infinity is meaningless to him. the void is infinite. GG?

it does not work like that, if you have any other valid question let me know, any other would be derailing

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here? Is it fine if we apply these revisions now?

 

[Robo432343]

So what should we do here? Is it fine if we apply these revisions now?

if enough staff has agreed then its fine

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here? Is it fine if we apply these revisions now?

if enough staff has agreed then its fine

Well, I think that further staff input would be much preferable.

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Shadowbokunohero @Crazylatin77 @Zaratthustra @Just_a_Random_Butler @ElixirBlue @Tllmbrg @Nehz_XZX @Dereck03 @Agnaa @JustSomeWeirdo @Theglassman12 @Crabwhale @Eficiente @DarkGrath @Moritzva @DemonGodMitchAubin @Duedate8898 @Armorchompy @CrimsonStarFallen @Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @Lonkitt @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @DMUA @Jasonsith @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @CloverDragon03 @KLOL506 @M3X_2.0 @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Aguywhodoesthings @Dalesean027 @DemiiPowa @The_Divine_Phoenix @ZackMoon1234 @MistaClean @MonkeyOfLife @FinePoint @Propellus

Are any of you willing to help out with evaluating this as well?

 

[Propellus]

I don't scale DC Comics, so I don't know how I'm going to be helpful around here

 

[CloverDragon03]

Same here. I don’t scale DC Comics so I don’t think I’d be able to help out here

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem. This is a major project, so I thought that it would be respectful to ask at least.

 

[LordTracer]

My apologies, but I don’t do Tier 1/cosmology stuff.