I'm fine with all of this
1] It seems reasonable. However, it should be noted that
But "Cranky Kong" here is also known as "Donkey Kong" by casuals, so if the result is fusing DK and DKC, this difference should be specifically noted and have a clear reference. Before reading that reference, I had believed that Donkey Kong in DK series and Donkey Kong in DKC series are the same character.
Well, yeah
We're not using the title as basis, just the contents of the game
If the content of the game could support the "same canonity" thing, then it is supported then.
I agree
Just saying the plot of the game is literally Mario traveling into space and through the universe to save Peach. We've seen Earth portrayed realistically in Mario before but in Galaxy? It's very tiny. It quite literally is an artistic thing. I'm pretty sure we can go scrutinize literally EVERY Videogame feat where something cosmic happens because the character had to actually be on screen otherwise if it was realistic they wouldn't even be visible to the naked eye.
We do see Mario's planet and it is regular planet sized lol, no idea where you got this claim from because it's blatantly untrue.
No. It is not. You can see the area the castle got plucked from and it is visible from space if you look through the clouds. That is small. Hell, even the size of the castle in relation to the curvature of the planet right there you can see it's small. You call that actual planet-sized?
lol. lmao. They are supposed to be far away from the planet, of course it looks small, it even looks normal planet sized again later in that very scene, and earlier in these scene (like, a couple seconds before the timestamp you linked) it shows the Castle floating up from what appears to be a normal sized planet.
This shot also shows the other galaxies right next to Mario's planet when you've already claimed he goes across the universe in this game.
I understand that these are a lot of connections to toss away but I can't help but feel that either these are just parallel events, or they've been somewhat retconned. Not only do modern Paper Mario games lack these references (which means nothing on its own), but they clearly depict Mario characters as being made of paper. I understand usually the explanation for this has been that the paper was just an artstyle, but modern games clearly show that not to be the case (scans taken from this thread, which also has way more examples, this is just a handful of showings to make the point) and they really are as thin as paper:
I'm not opposed to LM + M&L and CTTT + mainline being fused, btw.
I think if Mario RPGs were to become their own canon (with additions), accepting the power increase through level ups would be very reasonable, they'd likely get keys and all. Although equipment might play a part into that.
My issue with these though, is that in the game afterwards Mario would go back to fighting Bowser evenly despite him lacking the amps that allowed him to fight Mario before. You could possibly assume these are just stomps happening outside of gameplay but that's unlikely, as Bowser stomps Mario in the very beginning of Odyssey and Mario generally always regards him as a thread.
This is kind of weird, as the bros don't undergo similar downgrades in power but they do still fight the same people as Bowser. IMO they just grow alongside each other in power, with Bowser not having been weakened much under his previous strength by the poison but just reaching new heights, though the extent of that depends on whether those implications about the Dark Star end up being usable.
You're very stubborn. You acknowledge the planet's size varies, though. That was my point. Mario does it all the time and Galaxy is no exception. He's supposed to be traveling space and the universe, unless you're trying to say that Mario's universe is definitely full of objects all smaller than actual celestial bodies your argument never made sense from the actual descriptions of the game anyways. Going through space you absolutely would come across galaxies, stars, and planets and the like. If you're arguing 'in the game they're all small" then I suppose you're arguing the entire cosmology is small. But you're not, right? Because you acknowledge the artistic inconsistency of size in your own arguments. You're literally shooting yourself in the foot.
Ok this is a bit later than I had intended, but here:
Here’s my proposed groupings, I think these take the closely related games with canon or heavily implied links to each other pretty well.
Well again, I won't be giving any extensive arguments. And if anything, I'd argue classic Paper Mario and Modern Paper Mario also could be seperate; in which classic PM is the same as mainline and all those other games while Modern Paper Mario, Sticker Star and beyond are different + possibly the one from Paper Jam too. Although, Color Splash also has details that imply Captain Toad took place before it + There was an old Universary research paper written by Goombella in the same University Goombella was stated to go to. Color Splash is more so just a double edge sword; half the time it supports just being the same as mainline Mario but other times implies being alternate dimension.
Well, I don't think any game being treated as different canon as opposed to having unknown time placements was what is agreed on. Or alternate universes within the same multiverse at worst. And stronger equipment is also acknowledged as contributing to getting stronger and other RPG series so not against that also being part of it alongside leveling up.
Some could argue Bowser also gets stronger, but I digress, it's another note worthy inconsistency.
Well, maybe not super weaker, but some muscle molecules and amino acids aren't working the way they should is one of the main plot points of BIS. Which is why Mario Bros basically act as his super molecules that trigger the proper nerves in his muscles. But every feat he does aside from arguably his giant form; which is still only a mortal danger move, should still be feats Bowser is physically more than capable of as long as his muscles are awake.
I don't think one or two vague references which might just imply similar events have happened in this world too make for a "double-edged sword", there's a very clear divide here, especially with Paper Jam providing context.
Those have actual story reasons for that though, completely different thing. I'm pretty sure Woolly World just has a different setting straight-up.
There's a very big difference between Wario getting squished by certain attacks and PM characters being referred to as being made of paper explicitly.
The Origami King has a room in it with pictures of Peach from previous Paper Mario games, implying it's the same continuity.
Paper Mario would be, I think, as for the rest yeah my mistake, but effectively that is roughly how we'd be treating them in practice..
Dream Luigi amps Mario, I believe. As for the latter, that'd require further analysis on whether it stomping them or being on even grounds with them is more consistent for any given "continuity".
I think that's just a bit of fanservice, wouldn't give it too much weight. Ultimately Nintendo doesn't really care about Mario canon, we should try to be somewhat conservative regarding what does or doesn't count.
Yeah, Mario (and other characters) is the same guy portrayed through several different stories not inherently linked, with the exception for me of Paper Mario, which is an entirely different character
I don't acknowledge that the planets size varies, I never did. I stated that it only looked small because it was meant to be far away, then when we get a different angle it looks planet sized again, it didn't get bigger between shots, our perspective simply changes. Real celestial bodies obviously exist in Mario, I've said that I believe this so many times it's quite incredible that people still try to say I don't think this as some kind of gatcha to take down my argument when my argument has nothing to do with this, I am not arguing that real planets/stars/galaxies exist in the Mario universe because that would be really stupid since we see that they do, what I dispute is that Lumas can instantly transform into full sized Galaxies at will to justify a ridiculously exaggerated scaling chain when everything we see them transform into on sceen is so ludicrously smaller it is laughable to even suggest that what they turn into is Galaxy sized. I acknowledge that they have to use a smaller 3D model to represent what is supposed to be a real planet, but it makes it more apparent that the other objects you explore are not meant to represent real planets, the Earth in SMG looks like a real planet, the tiny floating islands in space do not and I've yet to see any official source stating they are meant to represent anything other than what they are in game.
Yes, I agree with this, ideally there should be a note on each page explaining that all pages depict the same character, and that they are only separated for to indexing purposes and not that different series are not part of the same canon.
You could argue the tutorial on how to fight given to Mario since he hasn't fought in a while is canon, and if so indicative that he got weaker. Is there any proof that Bowser got his full strength back by the end? Because he fought evenly against mid-game Mario & Luigi before it. The best ending for Bowser also has him reaching the "Final Boss Rank" in stats, so I would imagine that maybe he wasn't that strong by the middle of the game.
That game takes place in a planet where everything turns into yarn just by being there. The villain sent everyone there and the game ended with Kirby being able to visit the planet if he wants to.
