Sonic speed downgrade.

[Theuser789]

Cal said it didn't take place close to the Earth because the background didn't fit the previous Advance games, that's all

 

[ShakeResounding]

...aight I promise I'll stop after that one. In all seriousness, Sonic's clearly not in the same outer space as he was in the other 2/3 of his trilogy. Where that puts him, idk, but Earth's orbit is fishy. But take what I say with a grain of salt.

KEK. He really did back us up too.

Now that we all know how to read, can we finish this CRT up?

 

[JJSliderman]

Well I mean if we can't angsize the nebula based on Sonic's position then
Shouldn't the calc be adjusted to accomodate.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Wow. You really fail to read posts.

You people seriously think that there's only one "outer space"? That there's only one type of "background" in the whole solar system?

 

[JJSliderman]

No, the argument was just that the background is completely dissimilar to the background in the other 2 Advance games, which explicitly took place on the moon or just outside of earth.

Logic dictates that Nonaggression is in a completely different location, otherwise why would they go to the trouble of designing an entirely new background render.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's impossible to fall from a nebula to Earth. Therefore Sonic didn't fly away and it was just a dumb background. If you think he actually flew lightyears you are delusional and versus debating has rottened your brain. Nobody who is normal and actually thinks for themselves believes this, only children who are invested in making the character as strong as possible on a website.

If you disagree with me you are actually lying to yourself and I genuinely don't believe you are telling the truth.

 

[JJSliderman]

Bro, you instigated this with that "absolute state of Sonic supporters" comment.

Either way, basically the only argument against it being far away is "Gemerl couldn't have fallen to Earth from lightyears away" when that can easily be twisted to say "there's no way Gemerl could have fallen at a very specific point so that he landed on a specific island close enough to Cream that she could find him". It's an argument based on incredulity and nothing more.

 

[Arcker123]

It's impossible to fall from a nebula to Earth. Therefore Sonic didn't fly away and it was just a dumb background.

Wasn’t one of the main points that you can’t prove he “fell”

If you think he actually flew lightyears you are delusional and versus debating has rottened your brain. Nobody who is normal and actually thinks for themselves believes this, only children who are invested in making the character as strong as possible on a website.

If you disagree with me you are actually lying to yourself and I genuinely don't believe you are telling the truth.

How immature, 90% of your post is meaningless insults you have the gall to call us children.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Bro, you instigated this with that "absolute state of Sonic supporters" comment.

Yes and I don't care. If you think someone fell from lightyears you are delusional.

Either way, basically the only argument against it being far away is "Gemerl couldn't have fallen to Earth from lightyears away" when that can easily be twisted to say "there's no way Gemerl could have fallen at a very specific point so that he landed on a specific island close enough to Cream that she could find him". It's an argument based on incredulity and nothing more.

The later is irrelevant and meaningless. He's still falling from orbit to Earth which is possible, falling to the specific island is a narrative convenience. The former is clearly not the intention, Gemerl was affected by gravity and fell down. Anything else is cope.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Wasn’t one of the main points that you can’t prove he “fell”

He was affected by gravity and that's how he crashed. The fall is self-evident.

How immature, 90% of your post is meaningless insults you have the gall to call us children.

Doesn't mean I'm not right. Normal people don't think like the Sonic supporters here.

 

[Arcker123]

He was affected by gravity and that's how he crashed. The fall is self-evident.

Gravity in space?

 

[JJSliderman]

So Gemerl falling to a specific island can be written off as narrative convenience, but him falling to Earth from a nebula can't?

Seems like a pretty big double standard.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Gravity in space?

Are you so scientifically illeterate that you don't understand that Earth's orbit reaches far away from the low-level atmosphere. The Space Station orbits the Earth because it is affected by Gravity.

Hell there are examples of this happening in sonic. Shadow fell to Earth from Space because of gravity. How can you not understand this.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So Gemerl falling to a specific island can be written off as narrative convenience, but him falling to Earth from a nebula can't?

yes because the later is a direct relation from being affected by gravity and the later is impossible and not the intent and it would have taken him millions of years.

IF you disagree you are objectively wrong.

 

[JJSliderman]

To say that it was taking place near earth directly contradicts what the prior 2 Advance games established in terms of that particular setting by saying they randomly chose to represent the same location with a different background for no reason.

So you are directly going against the game's logic, and thus you could also be considered objectively wrong.

 

[MysticMania]

I don't mean to sound rude, Matthew, but you're acting disrespectful and unreasonable right now. There's zero reason to listen to such a person in a VS Debate.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

To say that it was taking place near earth directly contradicts what the prior 2 Advance games established in terms of that particular setting by saying they randomly chose to represent the same location with a different background for no reason.

It doesn't contradict anything my dude. I don't really care. Yes, they replaced the background for no reason because they thought it would look cool. This is a trillion times more likely than the actual intent of the game developers being that they wanted to convey Sonic flying lightyears and then Gemerl falling back lightyears, both off-screen, in seconds.

Stop lying to yourself, look at what you are actually implying, what madness is this. The level of delusion you need to be in to actually believe this is what the feat is showing.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't mean to sound rude, Matthew, but you're acting disrespectful and unreasonable right now. There's zero reason to listen to such a person in a VS Debate.

I agree, there is zero reason to listen to a person showing blatantly favoritism towards their verse to the point where they ignore basic science and expect people to reasonably believe a character fell from light-years away back to Earth off-screen when that is never shown.

 

[MysticMania]

So, Matthew, isn't cool how Sonic can breathe in space? ( But not water of course, duh )

 

[JJSliderman]

You act like objects can never travel from a distant nebula to Earth by random chance.

In fact it's even implied Eggman carried Sonic back to Earth as shown by the ending, so if they were right outside the atmosphere that wouldn't need to happen. Which just adds further credence to the notion that they were far away.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So, Matthew, isn't cool how Sonic can breathe in space? ( But no water of course, duh )

Whataboutism fallacy, get out of here. Sonic breathing in space can be explained by his biology producing oxygen somehow when he is under those conditions. Sonic not breathing underwater has to due with him drowning as water fills his lungs.

A character having an impossible ability does not mean that internal rules such as gravity, distance and the passage of time stop applying. If those do then none of Sonic's feats are ever measurable.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You act like objects can never travel from a distant nebula to Earth by random chance.

Yes they can't actually. If you do the math the chance of it happening is lower than the chances of you winning the lottery 100 times in a row.

In fact it's even implied Eggman carried Sonic back to Earth as shown by the ending, so if they were right outside the atmosphere that wouldn't need to happen. Which just adds further credence to the notion that they were far away.

Eggman carrying Sonic back to Earth is consistent with Eggman saving Shadow when he fell from Orbit. Eggman didn't care for Gemerl which is why he fell. You take unrelated things and pretend there is a correlation.

 

[MysticMania]

So Sonic has magic space lungs but it's impossible for Gemerl to move

I believe I may be backed into a corner.

 

[JJSliderman]

Shadow's thing isn't the same, Eggman saved him after he already fell.

All you're doing is just saying "this can't be right because it's very unlikely to happen", while also using narrative intent to back up your own points while dismissing it as a possibility for arguments you don't agree with. Then you simply resorted to insulting the intelligence of those you disagree with.

The evidence in-game regarding the setting being different to the outside of Earth in almost every other Sonic game, Gemerl's blast sending him opposite of where they came from to add the feasibility of him being launched towards Earth by authorial intent, and the fact that Eggman helped carry Sonic when Eggman's Eggmobile has shown the capacity for high speed spatial travel in the past, I think is good justification that they did in fact go to a distant nebula.

And while I'm aware this is a weak argument, the wiki describes Nonaggression as an unknown region of space. Considering wiki statements are used for the Egg Wizard's tiering, I think it's fair to use them in this instance as well.

If there is an argument against the feat that goes beyond just it being "unlikely", then please share, and stop belittling those who go against your arguments.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Shadow's thing isn't the same, Eggman saved him after he already fell.

No, he saved Shadow as he was falling with robots, you don't show familiarity with the franchise you claim to enjoy.

All you're doing is just saying "this can't be right because it's very unlikely to happen", while also using narrative intent to back up your own points while dismissing it as a possibility for arguments you don't agree with. Then you simply resorted to insulting the intelligence of those you disagree with.

No, my dude, it's impossible because it would take millions and millions of years if Gemerl was moving at the speed of light. Rather, he fell as gravity pulled him back to Earth.

There is no proof they actually flew to a nebula that is never shown and the background is just for visual effect.

The evidence in-game regarding the setting being different to the outside of Earth in almost every other Sonic game, Gemerl's blast sending him opposite of where they came from to add the feasibility of him being launched towards Earth by authorial intent, and the fact that Eggman helped carry Sonic when Eggman's Eggmobile has shown the capacity for high speed spatial travel in the past, I think is good justification that they did in fact go to a distant nebula.

Proving that it is ******* meaningless. A space background means nothing in a series which doesn't care about what space looks, that you use this as evidence that you need to interpret it as absolutely literal is insane.

You are using authorial intent to, stop being a hypocrite, you are saying its likely that Eggman brought Sonic back when that is completely irrelevant to Gemerl or the nebula. You basically make several logical fallacies and leaps in logic and you don't even see it.

And while I'm aware this is a weak argument, the wiki describes Nonaggression as an unknown region of space. Considering wiki statements are used for the Egg Wizard's tiering, I think it's fair to use them in this instance as well.

If there is an argument against the feat that goes beyond just it being "unlikely", then please share, and stop belittling those who go against your arguments.

Don't care what the wiki says. If a wiki statement is used for something else it's wrong there as well and it should be removed.

I am bellitting you and others because you show an absolute misunderstanding of science and basic reason here. It is impossible for Gemerl to fall back by inertia at millions of times the speed of light from an unknown nebula. If you disagree and if you think that's what happened you are lying to yourself.

 

[JJSliderman]

For your first point, the Devil Doom boss fight debunks it. Eggman stated that he found Shadow after the event and nursed him back to health in a capsule. There was also no time for Eggman to deploy robots to begin with.

There's no proof Gemerl was falling at only the speed of light, this is headcanon.

The franchise actually takes great pains when showing how space looks. If you look in Colors DS, Colors, Unleashed, Sonic Adventure 2, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Battle, the other Advance games, Sonic 2, Sonic 3, they all show the outside of Earth as a black space with stars. So the fact that the setting for Nonaggression is completely different must indicate that it is an area that isn't just outside of Earth's orbit.

We also don't see Gemerl come back to Earth so you're also making some leaps in logic.

EDIT: Realize that Eggman actually just says he rescued him with one of his robots and nothing else. This also doesn't directly imply that it was during Shadow's fall, and based on what happened in that scene I'm still inclined to say it makes more sense that Shadow was saved after the fact.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

For your first point, the Devil Doom boss fight debunks it. Eggman stated that he found Shadow after the event and nursed him back to health in a capsule. There was also no time for Eggman to deploy robots to begin with

Eggman is a crafty dude I can believe he deployed his robots and saved him. The scene is clearly written to explain why shadow didn't die from the fall.

There's no proof Gemerl was falling at only the speed of light, this is headcanon.

Yes, Gemerl was falling at 10m/s² since he was falling with gravity. This is factual. Your argument that he fell at impossible speeds is ludicrous when you don't have the scene of him falling in space where there is no up or down or gravity and also the "nebulae' is just a background effect intended to be cool from a series that doesn't give a shit what space looks like.

The franchise actually takes great pains when showing how space looks. If you look in Colors DS, Colors, Unleashed, Sonic Adventure 2, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Battle, the other Advance games, Sonic 2, Sonic 3, they all show the outside of Earth as a black space with stars. So the fact that the setting for Nonaggression is completely different must indicate that it is an area that isn't just outside of Earth's orbit.

It shows that its intended to look cool because its the final boss. There is no evidence its an actual nebulae lightyears away.

 

[JJSliderman]

I would continue here, but I honestly feel it's pointless to argue with someone who is so thoroughly convinced that headcanon like "it was done this way to look cool" and "Eggman did this because I think he would" are superior arguments to in-game context across the series and within the game.

Moreover I need to work on some assignments so this will be my last post on it today. If the staff feels it best to remove the rating, then so be it. The actual yield of the feat is something that could be discussed based on earlier angsizing concerns. But I am steadfast in my belief that it taking place far away from Earth is the more logical choice both in context and narratively.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I would continue here, but I honestly feel it's pointless to argue with someone who is so thoroughly convinced that headcanon like "it was done this way to look cool" and "Eggman did this because I think he would" are superior arguments to in-game context across the series and within the game.

It's not a headcanon, my dude. It's how games are made. Writers aren't battleboarders. If the feat seems unintended that's because it is, there is 0 evidence that the nebulae is actually real and not a cool background. If Sonic was meant to be shown flying to another solar system they'd show it.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

It's impossible to fall from a nebula to Earth. Therefore Sonic didn't fly away and it was just a dumb background. If you think he actually flew lightyears you are delusional and versus debating has rottened your brain. Nobody who is normal and actually thinks for themselves believes this, only children who are invested in making the character as strong as possible on a website.

If you disagree with me you are actually lying to yourself and I genuinely don't believe you are telling the truth.

This

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I would continue here, but I honestly feel it's pointless to argue with someone who is so thoroughly convinced that headcanon like "it was done this way to look cool" and "Eggman did this because I think he would" are superior arguments to in-game context across the series and within the game.

Moreover I need to work on some assignments so this will be my last post on it today. If the staff feels it best to remove the rating, then so be it. The actual yield of the feat is something that could be discussed based on earlier angsizing concerns. But I am steadfast in my belief that it taking place far away from Earth is the more logical choice both in context and narratively.

You’re the one abusing headcanon my guy, saying sonic flew to nebula despite it being contradicted. I ask you how could he end up on earth not counting falling, if you can’t answer this question, rip your point.

 

[ShakeResounding]

If you think we're anywhere near the Earth in this fight, you're a schizo that needs to take meds to function properly. And you probably also live in Brazil. And you're stupid, too. Or just too stupid. See? I can fling shit too. Doesn't mean I have good arguments. It gets old. Yawn.

Also nice try at claiming the background has no influence and is just "intended to be cool". Amazing argument that you wanna be spoonfed everything about what the writers are obviously trying to convey. Perhaps you also need the creator of the first ever cereal to flat out tell you that milk comes second? And if argument from incredulity is all you have, then you're repeating the same bogus we chewed out Da Lunge for in the past two pages. AKA bringing absolutely nothing new to the table, which I'm bored of.

But if you'd like to repeat the same tricks like a circus monkey then please, by all means, continue. It's funny to watch go nowhere. Again.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

If you think we're anywhere near the Earth in this fight, you're a schizo that needs to take meds to function properly. And you probably also live in Brazil. And you're stupid, too. Or just too stupid. See? I can fling shit too. Doesn't mean I have good arguments. It gets old. Yawn.

Also nice try at claiming the background has no influence and is just "intended to be cool". Amazing argument that you wanna be spoonfed everything about what the writers are obviously trying to convey. Perhaps you also need the creator of the first ever cereal to flat out tell you that milk comes second? And if argument from incredulity is all you have, then you're repeating the same bogus we chewed out Da Lunge for in the past two pages. AKA bringing absolutely nothing new to the table, which I'm bored of.

But if you'd like to repeat the same tricks like a circus monkey then please, by all means, continue. It's funny to watch go nowhere. Again.

Haha, nice. I didn’t know that hyping each other’s headcanon biased points by liking them and fraing the thread into oblivion is chewinf

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also nice try at claiming the background has no influence and is just "intended to be cool". Amazing argument that you wanna be spoonfed everything about what the writers are obviously trying to convey

Writers and specially game developers for plataform games of which writing isn't even the 10th concern don't think like versus schizos, yes. This is a demonstrable fact. The background is just for cool effect's sake.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I was summoned to this thread to give my two cents.

While I do not quite agree with a "Downgrade" as I'm pretty sure there were some other calculations for other feats that I either might not remember, or I simply haven't seen the calculations for. I do agree that the first calculation this blog in particular in the OP doesn't quite look legit. I'm not going to argue that they were close to earth via falling; we don't see when Sonic reverts back into base; only that appeared to happen unexpectedly some time, and he just woke up. However, I'm going to have to agree that "Having a star cluster in the background" isn't really evidence for anything.

My reason, well even from planet Earth; there are plenty of nebulae and star clusters visible to the naked eye in some places at night. Including Open Clusters like Hyades and Pleiades. Those are still visible to the naked eye. While Sonic clearly flew into outerspace, it really isn't much evidence he flew anywhere outside the solar system let alone all the way to the same cluster in the background. Though, the attack speed for the FEB calculation is fine.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I was summoned to this thread to give my two cents.

While I do not quite agree with a "Downgrade" as I'm pretty sure there were some other calculations for other feats that I either might not remember, or I simply haven't seen the calculations for. I do agree that the first calculation this blog in particular in the OP doesn't quite look legit. I'm not going to argue that they were close to earth via falling; we don't see when Sonic reverts back into base; only that appeared to happen unexpectedly some time, and he just woke up. However, I'm going to have to agree that "Having a star cluster in the background" isn't really evidence for anything.

My reason, well even from planet Earth; there are plenty of nebulae and star clusters visible to the naked eye in some places at night. Including Open Clusters like Hyades and Pleiades. Those are still visible to the naked eye. While Sonic clearly flew into outerspace, it really isn't much evidence he flew anywhere outside the solar system let alone all the way to the same cluster in the background. Though, the attack speed for the FEB calculation is fine.

Sonic was saved by Eggman as evident by end cutscene. Gemerl was the one who fell

 

[MysticMania]

^How do we know he fell?

Also, this may sound odd, but what does a star cluster look like on the outside VS the inside?

 

[JJSliderman]

My reason, well even from planet Earth; there are plenty of nebulae and star clusters visible to the naked eye in some places at night. Including Open Clusters like Hyades and Pleiades. Those are still visible to the naked eye. While Sonic clearly flew into outerspace, it really isn't much evidence he flew anywhere outside the solar system let alone all the way to the same cluster in the background. Though, the attack speed for the FEB calculation is fine.

Honestly, I would probably have agreed with that if the background wasn't different. We already have contextual evidence showing what the area outside the Earth's atmosphere looks like, and it doesn't match what's shown in Advance 3. Maybe it wasn't all the way to the nebula, though.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I was summoned to this thread to give my two cents.

While I do not quite agree with a "Downgrade" as I'm pretty sure there were some other calculations for other feats that I either might not remember, or I simply haven't seen the calculations for. I do agree that the first calculation this blog in particular in the OP doesn't quite look legit. I'm not going to argue that they were close to earth via falling; we don't see when Sonic reverts back into base; only that appeared to happen unexpectedly some time, and he just woke up. However, I'm going to have to agree that "Having a star cluster in the background" isn't really evidence for anything.

My reason, well even from planet Earth; there are plenty of nebulae and star clusters visible to the naked eye in some places at night. Including Open Clusters like Hyades and Pleiades. Those are still visible to the naked eye. While Sonic clearly flew into outerspace, it really isn't much evidence he flew anywhere outside the solar system let alone all the way to the same cluster in the background. Though, the attack speed for the FEB calculation is fine.

Also I don’t remember any higher speed feats than this one. There was a quadrillion c feat in team racing but nobody scales as it was done by a spaceship, and no one could effectively maneuver it to the point of justifying reaction speed scaling

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Honestly, I would probably have agreed with that if the background wasn't different. We already have contextual evidence showing what the area outside the Earth's atmosphere looks like, and it doesn't match what's shown in Advance 3. Maybe it wasn't all the way to the nebula, though.

You again act as if there’s literally only one way space can look from any place close to earth