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The Elder Scrolls Revision IV: Oblivion

StarSlayer666

StarSlayer666

731
78
Oblivion - Jauffre Jam
Oblivion - Jauffre Jam

Previous Thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2444408?useskin=oasis#431

Cosmology and stuff:

The Elder Scrolls: Cosmology & Lore

The Elder Scrolls: Metaphysics & Philosophy

Current Progress:

New Profiles: Ahzidal, Miraak, Pelinal, Nocturnal, Hircine, Lord Harko, Akatosh, Mara, Dibella, Arkay, Jagar Thar, Eternal Champio, Aldui, Mankar Camora, Giants (The Elder Scrolls), Durnehviir, The Apprentice (The Elder Scrolls), Umaril the Unfeathered, Zenithar, Julianos, King Anumaril, Kynareth, The Champion of Cyrodiil, The Vestige, Sheogorath, Stendarr, Aela the Huntress, J'zargo,The Dovahkii, Vivec, Sotha Sil, Dagoth Ur, The Numidium, Talos, Magnus (The Elder Scrolls), Meridia, Neloth, Divayth Fyr, The Ebony Warrior, Vaermina, Hermaeus Mora, Trinimac, Boethiah, The Nerevarine, Padomay, Anu, Delphine, Cicero, The Ayelidoon Empire, Dram, The Hist

Discuss.'
 
But then the Hist-Jilian wars spilled out of a Wheelian rip into the SubSys slice of 'brane-space, and things changed for Kinmune. With the outer colonies separated from Nu-Mundelbright chronoculic sync-net anchors, maintenance of space-time beyond the F-Shores faltered. As the barely-there Hist blink-root-ship armada fired an artillery barrage of 16th-dimensional mathematics at their Jilian enemies, impossipoint detonations stippled across the Ix-Egg and its clutch-satellites like some garish TalOSian hologram, only without the irony. Kinmune's synthetic body, caught in one of the blasts, suddenly found itself in the Ysgramorim, her mind an aggregate of the residual personalities of her last several users.

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/kinmune

The Hists are the greatest lol.
 
AlmightyZoom said:
But then the Hist-Jilian wars spilled out of a Wheelian rip into the SubSys slice of 'brane-space, and things changed for Kinmune. With the outer colonies separated from Nu-Mundelbright chronoculic sync-net anchors, maintenance of space-time beyond the F-Shores faltered. As the barely-there Hist blink-root-ship armada fired an artillery barrage of 16th-dimensional mathematics at their Jilian enemies, impossipoint detonations stippled across the Ix-Egg and its clutch-satellites like some garish TalOSian hologram, only without the irony. Kinmune's synthetic body, caught in one of the blasts, suddenly found itself in the Ysgramorim, her mind an aggregate of the residual personalities of her last several users.

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/kinmune

The Hists are the greatest lol.
Click to expand...
all right, I have basic knowledge of the intricate lore of the elder scrolls ... but this sincere is a tangle of words that I did not even think existed!
 
"False equivalencies on both accounts, multiple developers have said that Elder Scrolls Canon is subjective and both out-of-game texts by devs and forum roleplays featuring devs have been referenced in official Bethesda publications, to say nothing of the Prophet in KotN and Heimskr in Skyrim both quoting MK texts, and Sermon 37 in ESO, alongside a cavalier number of other references in ESO.

And what about all the roleplays Lawrence Schick's done with the fans, are those not canon? Of course they are."

Quoted from the other thread since I forgot to respond there

Multiple developers and the vice president of Bethesda have also said that only what is featured in the games or novels is canon elder scrolls is the intellectual property of Bethesda and Zenimax so ultimately they get to chose what is canon in their own games

As for the Prophet in KotN that's different because Kirkbride was contracted to write for him as well as a few books in Skyrim and oblivion so those would be considered canon

Some of Kirkbride's writings were used for Heimskrs speech and the many headed Talos had parts used for the games so those are canonical

Sermon 37 literally has a c0da easter egg in the form of a link pointing to the website in no way does this make c0da canon

I would also like to see these other references in ESO because I tried to find them and I couldn't and either way a reference to something doesn't suddenly make the entirety of that thing canon that's line saying that a reference to Bloodborne in dark souls makes it canon that they are in the same universe

As for roleplays on the forums by devs and roleplays with Lawrence Schick unless stated by Bethesda or used in their games of course they aren't canon

In the case that c0da and all of Kirkbride's writings are taken as canon there are plenty of inconsistencies and problems that arise (not to say Bethesda themselves has kept the story consistent however)

Tl;Dr

Several of bethesdas devs and even the vice president of the company say that only what is featured in thr games, novels and other officially licensed materials is canon Bethesda is allowed to chose what is canon in their games as they own the property rights to the universe unless they state c0da is canon it's not canon however if they use parts of c0da within the games or other licensed materials then those aspects become canon in the event that this happens this doesn't suddenly make all of c0da canon either it makes those parts canon
 
Ogbunabali said:
Let's not make this into C0DA / MK bashing thread, since this is obviously where this is going.
Click to expand...
It's not trying to bash either I like Kirkbride's work it's just that as it stands now c0da isn't canon and Bethesda is who can chose to make it canon not the fans
 
I just read Magnus' justification for being 1-A and that he's a direct manifestation of ANU, I know this is a dumb question, but how high up is he on the 1-A scale?
 
He is comparable to Aka and Lorkhan.

@Paul

Roleplays are Canon though, the Developers started doing them in the first place because they wanted to expand the Lore and share information about future games while also interacting with Fans.

The Chimer were mentioned for the first time in a Roleplay thread, for example, and Hasphat Antabolis, an NPC in Morrowind, also appeared for the first time in the same thread.

Also the referentes to C0DA in the 37th Sermon are these:

Three in sum, the robes of Ayem stretched towards the bright black rim of memory, roping an arc of purchase. This was a new sprinting task. And Seht held his swollen belly to its name, clockmaker's daughter, swimming the dead confession along a century of thread, Naming her, uneaten, a golden cache of Veloth and Velothi, for where else would they know to go?

This is referring to the Memory, the resulting being formed from the Union between the Magne-Ge Mnemoli and the Clockwork City, which is metaphorically Said to be Sotha Sil's daughter. This paragraph also describes the Memory's role in the plot of C0DA, which is recording the true, historical information of the world, accessible only to the Four Great Houses, since the Dunmer are beginning to forget their own past due to the destruction of Time caused by the Numidium.

And the red moment became a great howling unchecked, for the Provisional House was in ruin. And Vivec became as glass, a lamp, for the dragon's mane had broke, and the red moon bade him come.

This is describing Landfall, the destruction of Aurbic Time, followed by the devastation of Nirn caused by the Numidium prior to the events of C0DA proper, and the events which made the few surviving Dunmer and Khajiit flee to Masser ("and the Red Moon bade him come")

The light bent, and Vivec awoke and grew fangs, unwilling to make of herself a folding thing. This was a new and lunar promise. And in her Biting she tunneled up and then downward, while her brother and sister smeared across heaven, thin ruptures of dissent, food for scarabs and the Worm. She took her people and made them safe, and sat with Azura drawing her own husband's likeness in the dirt.

"For I have removed my left hand and my right, he will say," she said, "for that is how I shall win against them. Love alone and you shall know only mistakes of salt."

The worlding of the words is AMARANTH.

This is describing Vivec taking her people (the Dunmer) to Masser, and tunneling gigantic holes in it, which are main characteristics of the Lunar Dunmer Society in C0DA. It also mentions the Worm, who is Akatosh after being slaughtered by the Numidium during Landfall, and recounts Jubal-lun-Sul's dialogue.
 
Ok but how high are Aka and Lorkhan, I know they're nowhere close to baseline, but like are they very high up on the tier or just above baseline. Also if they reference CODA it wouldn't make sense to not be canon because how could characters reference something if it never happened.
 
@Paul
Roleplays are Canon though, the Developers started doing them in the first place because they wanted to expand the Lore and share information about future games while also interacting with Fans.

The Chimer were mentioned for the first time in a Roleplay thread, for example, and Hasphat Antabolis, an NPC in Morrowind, also appeared for the first time in the same thread.

Again Pete Hines and others have said that only things in game are canon that means that they became canon after being featured in game not before
 
What Pete Hines and Todd said was only relevant back in like, 2005 or so. I honestly couldn't care less about what they say, what matters is the actual intent of the people working on the Lore at the time, who all explicitly wanted to share actual, valid Information with Fans of the series while also interacting with them.

Again, I say that it is all irrelevant by now even if you are an avid follower of "muh canon", since nearly all of the OOG Lore by Kirkbride has been introduced into the games by ESO. Heck, most of it was never OOG to begin with and was present in the games since Morrowind.
 
Ultima Reality said:
What Pete Hines and Todd said was only relevant back in like, 2005 or so. I honestly couldn't care less about them, what matters is the actual intent of the people working on the Lore at the time, who all explicitly wanted to share actual, valid Information with Fans of the series while also interacting with them.
Again, I say that it is all irrelevant by now even if you are an avid follower or "muh canon", since nearly all of the OOG Lore by Kirkbride has been introduced into the games by ESO.
Click to expand...
Hines and Todd aren't the only devs to say that but even if they were that would be how the Lore works still

And eso hasn't really introduced much of Kirkbride's writings as canon to my knowledge especially not the entirety of c0da
 
It did. ESO has Lore from:

  • Nu-Mantia Intercept
  • The Second Pocket Guide to the Empire
  • Vehk's Teaching
  • The Loveletter from the Fifth Era
  • Kirkbride's version of Where Were You When the Dragon Broke
  • Kirkbride's comments and statements
  • Cyrus vs Vivec
  • Landfall: Day One
  • Imperial Census of Daedra Lords
  • Et'ada, Eight Aedra, Eat the Dreamer
 
Ultima Reality said:
It did. ESO has Lore from:
  • Nu-Mantia Intercept
  • The Second Pocket Guide to the Empire
  • Vehk's Teaching
  • The Loveletter from the Fifth Era
  • Kirkbride's version of Where Were You When the Dragon Broke
  • Kirkbride's comments and statements
  • Cyrus vs Vivec
  • Landfall: Day One
Click to expand...
Man I missed alot of the books in eso then time to go back through again

But either way none of those make all of c0da canon still
 
I just edited my previous post to list all of the referentes to C0DA made in the 37th Sermon.

And again, many of Kirkbride's writings were never OOG to begin with, and are mostly just explanations that expand on Lore which has been in the games since Morrowind.
 
I'm pretty sure that the 37th sermon being outside of the 36 is supposed to show it's meant to be taken less seriously similar to sermon zero this is kinda reinforced by the website for c0da being an eater egg within


The main part of the sermon is supposed to be about vivec prior to changing history after achieving chim there are a few nods to c0da within such as references to Jubal and potentially some to the landfall

I guess this boils more down to me taking the side of "bethesda owns the intellectual rights and thus gets to choose what is canon" regarding canon and the rules being more strict and you guys choosing instead to take the more liberal looser approach to the canon and even though one is technically right idc which is used honestly I just wanted to know why c0da is being used despite technically being non canon fanfic
 
Ok, ive asked this before and imma ask again. How do you credit the artist for the ebony warriors profile pic correctly? And could somebody possibly add something to his gallery or remove the gallery section?
 
Can be anywhere from around High 6-A to as high was Low 2-C depending on how you interpret the numerous contradictory-yet-all-equally-true accounts of the Battle of Red Mountain.
 
Why does the ebony warrior scale to post dragonborn dovahkiin

He can be fought before even accessing the dlc as the only requirements are for you to be level 80 and have the dlc installed considering both of these requirements can be met even before the main campaign or dawnguard are done idk why he scales
 
About vivec his acausality lists this

(Type 5. Unbound by the flow of linear time across the Multiverse of Mundus. The nature of his Godhood makes it so that Vivec was simultaneously always a God, but also born a Mortal, giving him two contradictory, equally true pasts)

This is type 4 acuasality not 5.Either change it to 4 and change the describtion of it
 
TacticalNuke002 said:
Its because he's supposed to be the last boss and challenge the Dovahkiin will face in his story.
Click to expand...
Is that actually stated anywhere because logically if he was meant to be the final challenge the requirements to face him would be killing Miraak not downloading the dlc and being level 80
 
Yes, CHIM is a state Vivec can actively tap into in all of his forms, and he did so even after losing his Godhood.

That obviously isn't applicable in Vs Threads though.
 
The Skyrim Prima Guidebook puts the Ebony Warrior as the last quest it explains in the whole book including all of Dragonborn.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The Skyrim Prima Guidebook puts the Ebony Warrior as the last quest it explains in the whole book including all of Dragonborn.
Click to expand...
Other guides online don't have it last and have quests like the final decent and unearthed after

I don't think the place a quest appears in a guidebook is a good way to judge a characters power
 
Base Dragons are High 8-C, Legendary dragons might be High 6-A, not sure though.

If that's the case I wonder where the transition is, Elder or Ancient etc.
 
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