Zonda Vs. Mime Jr.

[The_Smashor]

There is literally no proof of that.

 

[Bobsican]

What are the ways to bypass it then?, as it seems just raising AP with Nasty Plot wont do it.

 

[The_Smashor]

Really Zonda being invincible during that move is a game mechanic. Not that it matters since Mime Jr.'s mind would be getting slowly and painfully destroyed.

 

[Bobsican]

Again, he isn´t affected by it via Soundproof, which also nulls stuff like Perish Song, which likely is even worse than that.

 

[SilverBlaze109]

Alright, didn't see that comment. I believe Paradise Lost is worse than perish song, but that's another story. Eden's Presence is also extremely powerful. Mime Jr. doesn't haven't have resistance to ice, much less absolute zero. Tenjin (which Zonda summons a copy of with Eden's Presence) can make ice colder than absolute zero. I doubt Mime Jr. could survive. Even if he did, he would take massive damage so Zonda could then finish him off. That's not to mention the other 7 powerful adepts. Also, Zonda can create copies of herself that can attack and confuse Mr. Mime. Along with Zonda's superior intelligence, Zonda will win.

 

[The_Smashor]

Yeah. The Seven have so many ways to kill Mime Jr. Gibril can paralyze it (Not the status but by freezing it's blood in place), Tenjian can freeze it molecularity at AZ and shatter it, Teseo can convert it into data (Which, by the way, instantly kills things as seen in the intro stage), everyone else probably could kill it due to AP and numbers.

 

[Bobsican]

Again, Mime Jr. is an expert in barriers, so he can just use Protect to prevent being hit in the first place (I mean, it can take Sheer Cold, which is AZ), the only problem would likely be Teseo, which can´t spam that move, and Mime Jr. can surely just Copycat it.

Also, Gibril can´t really manipulate blood like that, it´s in her weakness section.

 

[SilverBlaze109]

Let's be honest, converting someone into data will bypass a barrier. It does have a high durability, but it can be broken and can't be held for long. This is shown in game as there is a low percentage to pull off a protect a second time in a row. I doubt Teseo's technique will affect himself. Also, the weakness you pointed out is stated (in the same sentence) that this is likely for "gameplay reasons".

EDIT: I agree with the weakness appearing due to gameplay reasons. It doesn't make sense that skin, a fragile, thin, soft layer, can block metal manipulation.

 

[The_Smashor]

Yes, Gibril can. She did in her fight with Jota. Quoted from her page, "As shown in her fight with Joda, she can paralyze foes with this ability". Flesh only partially blocks it.

 

[Bobsican]

Mime Jr. has telekinesis, so he can just null Gibril´s blood telekinesis.

How exaclty Teseo can turn stuff into data?

 

[SilverBlaze109]

Does Mime Jr. have the control needed to do this? Would Mime Jr. realize what's happening? The profile states he is naive. Meaning that he doesn't have wisdom, experience, or judgement.

Are you asking of the process of making matter into data? Or are you asking how he initiates the process/attack?

 

[Bobsican]

1: I just played it safe add added that as the value of intelligence, as other bay Pokémon have that rating, but unlike other baby Pokémon, Mime Jr. is smarter, as he is a Psychic type, and he has actually shown to have wisdom, experience and judgement of the events.

2: Both

 

[The_Smashor]

He creates a massive wall that goes through an area, converting it into data. Not really known how he initiates it (He started the attack offscreen in the intro stage) and he can's do this to non-data in areas already turned into data. But if you're hit by the wall you die.

 

[Bobsican]

Mime Jr. can just move at a side then, especially considering the match cwould be outdoors, meaning that there are no walls limiting movement unlike the time he used that move.

 

[SilverBlaze109]

Tesseo has spacial manipulation, he could just make walls to stop Mime Jr. Also, they'll be 8 other adepts attacking Mime Jr. so I don't think he'll dodge for long.

Also, while that may be a low ball, I doubt it's very high due to it being a baby. Most of the fighters Zonda summons are average intelligence - genius level. With Zonda being Genius. They are powerful, skillful fighters with a good amount of experience in fighting. Compare this to Mime Jr. a literal baby with little experience fighting.

 

[Bobsican]

Again, Mime Jr. isn´t literally a baby, at most he´s a child, so he should have more than basic intelligence for fighting, something more reckless Pokémon have.

As for the walls, are they made of data?

 

[SilverBlaze109]

True. But Mime Jr.'s profile (which you wrote) states that he's naive. Naive means that he's inexperienced, wisdom, and judgment. He should have a below average intelligence, making mistakes fairly consistently. Against such skilled opponents, it's likely that these mistakes, along with the powerful abilities of the adepts, would lead to his downfall.

Teseo is able to write matter into reality. This can include complex systems such as robots or simple objects such as platforms. You can see this in his in-game fight (just search it on youtube).

 

[Bobsican]

I´m not very fluent in english, so I just added that intelligence rating like that to play it safe.

Maybe I should just change it to something more accurate...

Anyways, the platforms and robots Teseo makes are easily dealt with electricity, something Mime Jr. can use via Charge Beam, potentially even raising his own ranged AP in the process.

 

[The_Smashor]

Yes. But why would Mime Jr. know to use Charge Beam?

Also I find it funny somebody that could potentially stomp HA DIO under the right circumstances is struggling with this.

 

[Bobsican]

It can be an egg move, so yes, he can know to use it.

 

[The_Smashor]

No, I mean why would it know to just shoot Charge Beam at things? Why would it think to do that?

 

[Bobsican]

Charge Beam, unlike other moves, has an high chance to also raise Mime Jr.´s ranged AP, so it easily wil be one of his leading moves.

 

[SilverBlaze109]

Mentioning the robots wasn't to show how he could attack. It was to show that he could construct anything, including walls to black Mime Jr. in. These walls would prevent Mime Jr. from avoiding the wall that transfers matter into data.

 

[Bobsican]

When has he done that? I only remember him making platforms and a good variety of ranged attacks.

Also, Mime Jr. can use Reflect and Light Screen in a similar fashion to Protect to keep up.

 

[SilverBlaze109]

The wall goes through everything. I doubt any barriers will block it. Even if they do, there are other adepts to attack from behind. He can literally rewrite reality. There's no reason he shouldn't be able to make a simple wall.

 

[The_Smashor]

I might add his wall is only used in the Intro stage to convert a large area into data. It's not in his boss fight because the area is already data.

 

[Bobsican]

But then again, Zonda´s Eden Presence limits each of the proyections of The Seven to perform a single attack, and she can´t spam it, which means that either Teseo makes a wall or makes the data thing, he can´t do both at once.

As the move itself doesn´t really last too long, Mime Jr. can just wait while it lasts by using Protect, until The Seven just vanish.

 

[SilverBlaze109]

Prior to absorbing the muse, Zonda was able to recreate the dead adepts that participated in the boss rush. I'm pretty sure that the limited projections of the seven were just game mechanics.

Also, I'm fairly sure the Protect is just a wall.

 

[Bobsican]

The boss rush is obviously not canon, evne the dialogue about the details of the mission put it clear that it´s not canon to begin with.

Edit: Just noticed you could be talking about the last "canon" mission, in which case, well, Mime Jr. would only be going one at at a time, not all of them at once, at least except when Zonda uses that one move, which is clearly limited, then again.

Which means that Zonda is limited to how much she can replicate the seven, as otherwise she could just make a bunch of clones without any virtual limitation whatsoever and let them to the job for her.

And yes, Protect is a wall, but an omnidirectional one that covers Mime Jr. from most attacks, allowing him to just wait until they vanish to continue fighting Zonda.

 

[SilverBlaze109]

Zonda created replicates of the Seven in her pre-muse form. Her post-muse form increases the power dramatically. After absorbing the muse, Zonda states, "Fusing with the Muse has amplified my septima a hundredfold." We see that in Zonda's sumeragi form (which is revealed to be another clone) can clone himself/herself in quick seccesion. The pause between the ultimate moves is likely game mechanics. If a clone can do that, what makes you think that an amped up True Zonda wouldn't? The muse is extremely powerful, Zonda would likely be able to make at least 2 or 3 copies of the Seven. Even 1 of Teseo with Zonda would be able to take Mime Jr. In the battle, we see Zonda using teleportation and a large variety of attacks. With Teseo's wall (which would likely turn protect into data), Zonda would most likely win. If protect did block the wall, it doesn't last very long. Zonda and Teseo can teleport inside. Also, it's worth noting that Zonda and Teseo are extremely intelligent while Mime Jr. is likely below average. Below is a video, the fight with clone Zonda starts at 13:20 and they start using their ultimate moves at 14:35. You can also see Reverie Zonda's statement at 18:23 and the fight starts soon after. The fact that Zonda didn't make a bunch of clones is likely game mechanics.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlhwuaP9cyQ&index=19&list=PL-7AtdKmRhORli8AwhQK0H3ruk_0rVmI5

 

[Bobsican]

I´m pretty sure this sort of stuff isn´t game mechanics, it´s clear that evne with that, she is still limited to how to make clones, it´s likely an hyperbole that statement especially considering the Muse didn´t help her beyond the fusion as GV said.

 

[The_Smashor]

Yes, it clearly is. Also, "The Muse didn't help her beyond the fusion"? What's that even supposed to mean? The fusion is supposed to be really strong. That's the point. Also, it's less of a fusion and more of an absorbing somebody's soul to get a new form.

 

[SilverBlaze109]

Even if the hundredfold increase is a hyperbole (which there isn't really much evidence to show this to my knowledge), this statement still shows a large increase to power. I can see where you're getting the idea that Reverie Zonda didn't get much stronger. However, she still got significantly stronger shown by this statement and others. If you want, I could provide the statements if you want more evidence.

 

[Bobsican]

Go ahead.

 

[SilverBlaze109]

Zonda states, "Ah, my new power... feel how it flows!" Naturally, this shows a substantial increase as the "Ah" shows surprise at the increase even though she witnessed the power increase the muse provides. She also states, "I didn't think my copies would be up to your standard." This shows that she knows that the Seven couldn't beat GV; however, she soon transformed and battled GV thinking that she would win. This is shown when Zonda states when she was defeated, "But we fused! The Muse and I, we were...compatible..." There's also scaling involved. Clones of the Seven had the same power as the real thing. So, clone Zonda should have the same power as real Zonda. Since Zonda knew that the clone wouldn't win, but she still fought GV and stated the previous statement, she thought she would win. Therefore, Reverie Zonda significantly more power than Clone or Real Zonda.

 

[Bobsican]

That still doesn´t mean she can make infinite clones of the seven of such quality in a reasonable time span.

After all, the replicas she makes were while she had about some hours, as that is about the time she noticed GV and Copen were getting close, especially considering the dialogue points at that she had those for preparation.

In other words, she can´t do copies of that quality without prep time, as otherwise the ones she makes quickly (aka, Eden´s Presence), can really only perform a move before vanishing.

 

[SilverBlaze109]

Of course it doesn't, unless I'm blind, no one has stated anything close to that. But, she can make a few clones in a battle to aid her. This would turn the tide of battle toward Zonda's favor.

 

[Bobsican]

What happens is that Mime Jr can just use Protect until they vanish, it doesn´t last that long.

 

[SilverBlaze109]

Zonda can make at least 1 copy that could last a while. Also, she could teleport inside the protect and materialize the copies there if she needs to be near where they are summoned. Even then, she could likely be just outside the sphere and summon them inside. It's not that hard to figure out what to do, especially considering Zonda's a genius.

 

[Bobsican]

That´s actually a good idea, but I don´t think they can sync with Zonda to perform that at the first try very well.