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Zoe vs The One Above All reincarnate, a baseball kid who is obsessed with saying "OK!"

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ShadowGamerOmega said:
I'm not gonna weigh in on this just yet, but it would be highly appreciated if people could stop making Vs threads with EarthBound characters for the time being. QuirkyBoi and I are making a verse-wide CRT together with the help of some other knowledgeable users, and it's a lot of work to both have to work on this CRT and participate in threads (some of which that may become irrelevant due to changes). This is especially tiresome because the two of us are pretty much the only really active EB experts on the site, and while I don't necessarily participate in threads myself, QuirkyBoi and I talk a lot in private and we discuss threads like these.
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Can I have a link to the CRT if it's up?
 
@Migue79 Currently the CRT is unfinished and not published yet. If you're curious about the changes, you are more than welcome to message me on Discord. I would post the link to the google doc here but it would create too much unnecessary derailment.
 
Zoe can erase, but fatehax will have a certain advantage if we consider that she doesn't go for the kill from the get go. She is sadistic and normally puts the target to sleep and f-up their mind and then throws a star at them or erases. Or, in SG Zoe's case, corrupts them and just then goes for the kill.
 
TheQuirkyBoy said:
Nope, In fact I recall one of the users claiming Ness would stomp. I believe that viewpoint has changed but regardless, I never saw anybody FRA'ing or out right saying "I vote this character via this"
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This was clearly ignored
 
Alright, time for my input I guess. I am not knowledgeable on League of Legends, but I will try to do my best with what we have here on the wiki.

WeeklyBattles said:
Unless it has feats of restoring type 2 concepts you cannot argue that it can
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Ness is not a conceptual being, so conceptual manipulation wouldn't be useful against him, only against the Truth of the Universe itself. As for the Truth of the Universe's ability to control fate, it only ensures that Ness is unable to conventionally lose, not that he will always necessarily prevail. We can see this through the game over screen, where if you choose to continue, your "loss" is turned into just a bad dream. While certain variables carry over such as everyone but Ness being unconscious and having 0 PP and any items gained or consumed, Ness's adventure carries on as if nothing happened. While Zoe is perfectly capable of erasing Ness, doing so would only cause the battle itself to be undone, and as such this is a possibility that the Truth of the Universe will prevent. If Zoe wants to beat Ness, she has to incapacitate him. The only form of incapacitation that counts as a loss for the player is the Diamondization status, or for our sake transmutation. Otherwise we've seen in game that Ness and Paula were capable of being jumped and incapacitated before being locked in an underground room. While the plot still moves the game forward by having Jeff rescue them, we still know that Ness is vulnerable to situations like these, and as such, the right win condition for Zoe would be sealing.

Rocker1189 said:
zoe can literally see the past and future of anything she sees and has cosmic awareness on a higher dimensional scale. She would definitely notice it.
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Cosmic awareness as we define it is "the ability to observe phenomena and be aware of events on a cosmic scale, though the specifics may vary. Users of cosmic awareness can often sense others and detect potential threats across an interstellar, galactic, or even universal scale". This alone does not automatically mean that cosmic awareness users would be able to sense the Truth of the Universe, we would need more specific information about how their awareness works. If Zoe has feats showing her detecting a conceptual being that exists beyond the universe (and has no true tangible form), then it's fair to say that she can erase the Truth of the Universe and just kill or incapacitate Ness, but if no such feat exists, I wouldn't assume this ability alone would let her deal with the Truth of the Universe. Also, Cosmic Awareness isn't currently on her profile (the closest thing that matches your description is her Information Analysis), so if it's an ability she does have, I would suggest making a CRT or something, if one is not already in development.

Oblivion Of The Endless said:
Truth will get resistance to type 2
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This is actually not true. There are no other characters in the verse that have type 2 conceptual manipulation, and there's no real reason to give the Truth of the Universe resistance without some sort of scaling or feat. The Truth of the Universe is fully vulnerable to conceptual manipulation as of now, so doing so is a fair win condition for Zoe if she is able to detect it and reach it. Also, I just want to be clear, but the current plan for the Truth of the Universe is not a straight upgrade to 2-B, but a change to "At Least 2-C, Possibly 2-B".

Anyway, the way I see it is that Ness's main problem is Zoe's ability to seal him and her ability to potentially erase the Truth of the Universe. Not much else in her arsenal can really provide her with a win condition considering the protection Ness has, aside from maybe BFR via portal creation but as I don't know the character I'm not sure if that power is even applicable that way. High-Mid regen is kind of a pain for Ness to get over, so he'd probably just have to resort to Flash's ability to instakill as his sole win condition. To make things easier though, he can restrict her physical movement for the whole battle using paralysis, and hypnosis can put her to sleep briefly, which would give him a key opportunity to use Flash a few times. If Zoe can erase the Truth of the Universe, she easily stomps the kid, otherwise I'm feeling sort of inconclusive on this one, at least until more arguments are presented. Either can win, but I'm not strongly convinced one way.
 
Zoe travels from different universes and dimensions due to threats that have been noticed by her. I don't see why she won't notice the truth and either erase it. Or straight up just seal Ness even if erasing does not work. Which I still don't understand how exactly he truth would bring back someone being conceptually erased from all history and memory.
 
Jimboydejuan12 said:
well guess im voted Zoe Fra.
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No one even voted in this thread, read the thread please. The most we have is ShadowGamerOmega going with inconclusive, which I can sorta agree with.

Ness has his own methods of instant incapacitation here as brought up before. He and Truth have Cosmic awareness themselves and Omniscience; Truth would already know what would happen or what Zoe would lead up with, And perhaps Ness to some degree. I don't think Truth can be erased here given how, just like what Shadow said, Truth is a conceptual entity who exist beyond the universe. Either way Truth warps reality, so I don't see why erasing him on a 4-D scale would be any different since it has 4-D reality warping. And yes, Fate hax would most definitely influence the fight here to Ness's favor.


Also... I've heard Zoe is gettin downgraded, is that true?
 
Jimboydejuan12 said:
what could do you want Ness win to bring NLF?

actually im support weeklybattles due league of legends user as me.
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> NLF REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Mind explaining? Me and Shadow pretty much explained fate hax throughout many threads. And honestly, this whole thing is getting rather bothersome to deal with. Granted, supporting Weekly ain't bad (even though literally no one voted for Zoe at all, so the FRA makes no sense) but you could at least take the time to read through the arguments that have been made here instead of taking things as absolute Truth.
 
Rocker1189 said:
yeah she still wins in the same way.
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Her win con doesn't change? So what I'm getting at is that her hax can affect Ness, who is one with Space-Time? I've also kinda pointed how the boy has Instant incapacitation and Precognitive abilities. I still stand by with Truth reverting Ness's death.

And also, if she's being downgraded, literally all Ness has to do is look at Zoe to win, yes?
 
er no? how does ness looking at her make him win? Since Ness gets erased from historuy I dont think that truth can revert it.
 
TheQuirkyBoy said:
AP difference, yeah? Unless I'm missing something.
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yeah AP difference does not mean that looking at someone makes you insta win unless that is an ability of his.

Also she has High-mid regen anyway.
 
Yeah good point, however just thinking alone would allow Ness to win. PK Rockin would enable him to one shot, this could also be lead with instant incap.

How does her High-Mid regen work?
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Yes, her has can affect ness who is one with space-time
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Really? She retains 4D hax...? Huh..Even so, Truth should be able to revert this.

By the way, since downgrades are coming through and upgrades for Earthbound are coming through, I might as well place my vote for Ness for my reasons.
 
Its instant

This is rather problematic as she's going to be dealing with getting one shotted every time, and PK Flash would have high chances of causing instant death. Paralysis can incap too.
 
TheQuirkyBoy said:
No offense, but just saying "dude" won't convince me and others at all.
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Her feats justify the fact that shehas the ability to erase Teuth with her hax as shown by both myself and Rocker. Beetter?
 
And that is...? Her range needs to reflect upon this too, otherwise none of her abilities wouldn't even matter to Ness or Truth. And Truth exist beyond the Multiverse, so erasing seems unlikely. Even so, Truth (and probably Ness) would have already known these events if it were to happen. Which begs the question, why are we just assuming Truth would just stand there and tank it?
 
SO this is not Ness vs Zoe, this is Ness and Truth vs Zoe because apparently Truth wont just use Fate hax it would now basically show up in the fight.

Might as well close this.
 
Oh yeah, after revisions, Zoe has to deal with another entity; The Player. Which I heavily doubt she can affect the Real World.
 
We basically tell you how zoe wins, and then you say she cant do this. Mate she has the hax. Range does not matter with this. and regardless her range is much higer than what is on the profile right now, being both cross and higher dimensional. And you still have not proven that Truth can reverse the Erasure, all you say is that it can.
 
TheQuirkyBoy said:
And that is...? Her range needs to reflect upon this too, otherwise none of her abilities wouldn't even matter to Ness or Truth. And Truth exist beyond the Multiverse, so erasing seems unlikely. Even so, Truth (and probably Ness) would have already known these events if it were to happen. Which begs the question, why are we just assuming Truth would just stand there and tank it?
Click to expand...
She has the range to do so, rocker already explained this
 
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