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Zeref Vs Tatsumaki

Look just do as you wish i already gave vote and explanations. Not gonna into circles with this again.

Also, why wouldn't he be able to teleport in flight like with Hades flying ship...
 
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
Can he even fly?
Click to expand...
He teleported to a flying ship and thought Irene how to use enchanments for it so i kinda doubt he can't. Plus if he can use telekinesis to make people levitate i don't see why he couldn't.

Thou that said simply teleporting to her is enough.
 
So he cant fly then, got it.

Has he shown the ability of sporadic teleportation? If so provide some scans.

If not there's a problem right there.

And not to mention, she doesnt need to just send him to space, could send the entire area too.

And one of the reasons why this has the potential to go into circles is you're not quite debunking some stuff, like I just gave several explanations to your arguments and ya basically just saud nah, I gave my vote and reasoning, not gonna cut it, debunk me and my points otherwise that's basically conceding.
 
"Debunking" arguments is not really a thing if that's what you are looking for.

Also, she ain't sending the entire area in space to beat Zeref don't go saying bs now. She never ever throw something into space and the argument of she could doesn't change the fact she never did so saying she will take a "city" and throw it into space is bs.

I am not trying to debunk anything of Tatsumaki's abilties (unless you count throwing into space thing) i am just talking about Zeref's abilties so i have nothing to "debunk" here.

Also, what am i supposed to say, he stops time and teleports and one shots living creatures. There is nothing else to add.

"Debunk me and my points"

Reason for which I stop talking with you.
 
Zeref in his White form could rewind time on himself- he reaarranded himself from vaporizated stated (also reaaranged destroyed wall in process). HE also created a gate that would reset the timeline once he crosses it. (Plot restricted him from doing that)
 
A guy can teleport and is immortal and has time stop and death magic and only lost because of absurd PIS.

Then you have an arrogant loli who got deceived due to her weakness and tends to underestimate people.

The victor is clear.


Even if Tatsumaki BFRs Zeref there's really nothing stopping him from literally just saying "Oh" while in space or underground, and just use teleportation to slowly get back in. Then there's the fact that he could literally just teleport in front of Tatsumaki and she'll die. Even if you argue that Tatsumaki can somehow resist that, which is frankly absurd, there's still her stamina issue and the fact that she has absolutely zero ways of taking out Zeref. Not BFR, not that aura haxx thing she did. She's simply outhaxxed.

Massive knowledge also helps. Really, there's no way he can't lose. Not saying he's gonna have an easy time winning but he's certainly not going to get defeated.
 
The problem with that is assuming his time stop, death magic and teleport can cross that distance, uf it even can, before he gets flung to space.
 
@J-Man

What? Time stop range? Or do you simply mean the teleportation range? He could still return to battle either way. It's not as if the second he's in space Tatsumaki instantly wins and she instantly wins. Not to mention she was unsuccessful on using this on Saitama, but before you say it's Saitama, think of the fact that the likes of Psykos, Black Sperm, and Garou were able to elude this attack. Heck Zeref can resist it and then time stop teleport combo into her and kill her.

I like both but I'll pick haxx over raw power in this case. Especially considering Tatsumaki's personality. Do you think she would actually use BFR as a first move? Likely she'll try to destroy Zeref first, and toss him around like Saitama if that fails. Which leaves ample time for Zeref to pull an insta death.
 
No i mean his teleportation range, time stop range and death magic range sure as hell ain't hitting her before he gets flung into space.

Also everyone ya mentioned ***** on both Tatsumaki and Zeref in power except golden, who is confirmed by ONE to be able to be beaten by tats at full power (since remember, she was weakened in that fight).

You saying it won't work on him since it didn't work on someoned hundreds to billions of times stronger is a no go.

Also worried about her using it as a first move? Molecular tear, doesnt work, straight to space.
 
Huh? What I'm arguing for is that he time stops once he realizes he's being sent to space, and then heads down accompanying teleportation too while we're at it. It's not like it's gonna hurt for him to fall like a meteor while time is still paused considering he suffered worse.

Fair argument good sir. But I doubt Psykos does that considering her raw power barely even matched Tatsumaki. So raw power isn't everything and deceit and ambush can help.

Let's turn this into a different argument then. Could you accurately say that Tatsumaki can manipulate mana and magical energy itself because she has done so accurately in the manga or anime or webcomic? Or are we just simply speculating on whether she can and cannot? And would it even work on Zeref who is immortal? The last time it was used on people that it almost worked on it only twisted their bodies apart and those guys just shook it off right after. Nothing's stopping Zeref from seemingly dying, only to teleport in front or inside of Tatsumaki and casts the death ability.

You realize often times Tatsumaki twists apart an enemy, sends barrage of rocks, summons tornadoes, flings them around like a game of ping ball, or drags them around the ground? I mean look at Saitama, she certainly didn't send him flying at the second move. Rather he went flying away.... In fact none of the moves she used against the Monster Association are BFR. Considering how she looks down on everyone and that seems like a last ditch effort for her. And again, teleport while being lifted up.


Perhaps if Tatsumaki always chooses the best option in a fight against an enemy I would've sided with her. But she's literally Gilgamesh, without the haxx backing her up. She loses this.
 
Not quite, time stop won't work if she's out of range. Teleport? Just send the area to space with him.

Deceit and ambush? In a fight where both are aware of each other's presence and they start 4km away from each other in NY?

She can manipulate chi.

Saitama is a bad example. And every one else either resists or shrugged off her power in general, most she couldn't even move.

Also Zeref teleporting? Not only have I never heard of him teleporting inside anyone, ever, like even implied at all, but his teleport had a range, it's not infinite.
 
Isn't time stops generally accepted to be wide scale in range? Considering it's Zeref too... And by area I'm guessing you mean the land he's standing on? That doesn't get rid of the issue there my friend.

Okay, how about I clarify. Somewhere along the beginning of the fight Zeref is gonna use his signature move. Since his opponent is flying he has to teleport to get to her. Since his signature ability is death manipulation that's what he's gonna combo with her. And I guess ambush isn't the right word. How about sucker punch of death? That seems like a more fitting name. And I remember the last time someone hid away from Tatsumaki.... she dragged them towards her closer.... That leaves quite an opportunity for a teleport in front of her/time stop and teleport, and then death blast.

Chi =/= magic. Close but not quite

And you realize about any other enemy she took out is by twister? How about Golden Sperm whom she tried twisting its neck instead of sending to space despite knowing what he can do? Or the fact that she didn't finish off everyone around her that were Dragon class monsters despite being capable of? Or how when she fought Black Sperm army was handled by waves of tk energy, and then tossing a boulder at one of them? Tatsumaki has repeatedly showcased the desire of not using BFR to anything that takes more than multiple hits. Hell even Garou she didn't toss up despite becoming aware that Fubuki was 'killed' by her. She's not gonna go for BFR and Zeref is gonna go straight for death magic.

Well the tele frag was a toss out I did anyway. But really, it doesn't take much to try to get close to an enemy and teleport there.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Zeref_Dragneel Here ya go. But don't worry I'm not, I'm just throwing in the noticeable flaws of Tatsumaki acting like a hyper efficient character. But hey if you want range, Zeref vanished from the presence of the Cube in the manga after talking with Natsu. And his presence was undetected right after implying he teleported out right away.
 
No, in fact in this very thread it was said his time stop is only a few hundred meters, and only by powerscaling. It could be lower. So no time stop is negligible at this distance.

Why you keep bringing up gold? She couldnt do shit to him due to her state, she had brain damaged and it was confirmed by wog, if she didn't, she'd win.

the problem is, ya keep bring up characters she either can't BFR due to tk noy doing much at all to them, or she ohkoed in the first few second.

And dude, i dont know what that means, give me a distance.
 
Meanwhile you seem to think that Tatsumaki will instantly throw him away despite being the 4 km distance and because she did that before right? Once again I repeat, she's literally going to drag her enemy in for a close fight. She didn't attack Saitama when he ended up a great distance from her, which was way less than 4 km, and she's definitely not gonna BFR Zeref like that on the get go. She's not a battle genius. She's an overly arrogant brat (that we all love or hate). She's not gonna always pick the best options for a battle either.

Uh, because logically she tried to BFR someone despite being injured before? Not to mention the fact that she never BFRs anyone? Ever? That's as canon as Saitama grabbing someone and tossing them into space.

Dude she tried to BFR Saitama while she was still technically injured you know. In fact we never saw her actually BFR anyone. So if you're going to keep saying she can't BFR someone because she's injured you might as well stop since otherwise she never did it. Of course we can take in the canonicity of the meteor feat in the anime, but regardless it's never her go to ability. She has literally shown repeatedly that she's going to keep hitting the opponent with pure raw power. It took her a long barrage of attacks before she resorted to BFRing Saitama. In Zeref's case he's gonna be a punching bag for an hour before he gets even considered for being BFRed

Cube is city sized. Forgot to list that whoops. But then again that's rendered moot when your enemy loves pulling whoever she faces close to her.
 
Ya do know she had a personnel grudge against Saitama and was shit talking with him the entire bout? She wanted to prove he was nothing.

She has thrown things 4km away from her before, nothing new here, also, not sure how I forgot this but she has tk'd a city sized object before. Uprooted the monster base, thats city sized. How us she gonna nfe them if her powers are next to nothing in comparison? She couldn't even make some of them flinch. Its like asking why Hit would use time lock in a fight when it did shit to jiren.

Dude, give me that dustance in meters, cities vary.
 
And she failed spectacularly on it. What else did she fail? BFRing anyone that lasted for more than one shot at her. Example being that Demon whip girl from the manga. Example being Psykos PRIOR to being injured. The various dragon classes PRIOR to being injured. She has a tendency not to use it against anyone. And even if she did that to Saitama it's still stupid of her not to do that to Garou.

What the heck does nfe mean? Do you need to sleep buddy? I'm asking cause it's almost 1 am here and I should be sleeping too anyway. Don't really know the circumstances around Hit anyway. But anyway your argument is confusing me. But if your reasoning is that I'm invalidating the ability because Tatsumaki never used it... is because I am. Because in-character she has never used it against anyone.

Dude idk, that's why I was looking at you. But cities are big anyway. But then again Tatsumaki lifted a giant underground base so that might as well be equal to it. Either way the argument is unnecessary.


To add on why didn't she just send Boros' ship back to space? If your argument is that it's heavy then I'll switch it up to pointing at the alien guy. Why didn't she just casually attacked him? Did she have so much trust on the S-class heroes? Unlikely.... Either way the likelier scenario here is clearly that she'll only use BFR as a last resort considering how much it strains her more than her other abilities.


By the way, you sure missed a lot of my points.


Still no counter for her logical characteristic trait of pulling enemies close enough to be in dozens of meters, and allowing for Zeref to teleport and death kill her.
 
Yeah she did fail, whatd you expect? Her to actually harm him in some meaningful way? Ya best be joking if you think comparing Saitama to anyone else she fought is gonna fly.

You're missing the point, I'm saying her bfr doesn't work on 99% of the people she fought, ya gonna tell me she can TK Garou? It took all her might just to restrain, untill he broke it seconds later and proceeded to ignore her. Throwing something into space is one thing, doing it to something above your paygrade? That's different, luckily Zeref isn't.

>send Boros ship back to space

Because that's above her paygrade?

>didn't fight the alien

Yes actually, she left it up to the other s class fighters while she took down the ship.


Her BFR doesn't strain Her? Every time she used TK it was casual.

Gonna need the distance on his teleport.

>nfe

It means BFR, I'm on a phone, it should be rather obvious what it meant, not much it could mean.


>whip girl, psychos, dragon classes

Fine, find me an example of her not BFR'ing someone she didn't/couldn't one shot and could BFR and didn't have prior info on. On top of bringing them into a few meters of her.
 
Did you read the first line of the paragraphs and ignored everything else? Because at this point I'm gonna sleep off if you continue that.

Oh there we go~! All her attempts to BFR someone failed, because it was only used once. On Saitama. Because she was desperate. Because all her attacks are seemingly failing after pretty much trying out every single attack she had on him including that chi manipulating attack.


So as shown there's a limit to how much she can lift

Bro. What a contradiction is that. That's like saying I'm fighting the dog outside while it's fighting with another dog. But nevermind that.

>BFR doesn't strain her.

Bfr


You realize that right after using BFR, or at least attempting she immediately gave out? Just like her other abilities she was already weary. That's what caused her to start opening her wounds. And before you argue "Oh but it's Saitama" take into the fact that she was using all her attacks and was at this point desperate. She has never ended up desperate against an enemy before. And she won't certainly end up desperate against an immortal before he invokes his death magic on her.

What the heck, how does nfe translate to that? If you meant bfr how could I possibly assume that? But nvm honest mistake.

Dude. I just about said them. She never BFRed everyone so we can speculate she can logically BFR anyone. But the key thing here is that she won't. Because she's arrogant. She underestimates oto much?
 
BUT ANYWAY Let's disregard all that since I'm sure it must be late there, or not, it's certainly late here.


Let me get to the point of how this battle goes

Zeref goes oh my god I wanna die, Natsu please kill me cause I'm in Fairy Tail

Tatsumaki is over there being the smug little loli she is

The moment the fight starts, with that gap, Tatsumaki and Zeref will sense each other. Both would want to be close to each other. Why? Because Tatsumaki has always been arrogant to never try to take out an enemy from miles away. She could've taken out dino guy in the webcomic or ripped apart Psykos underground but instead she dragged them all the way to where she is.

So what happens next? Zeref realizes, oh no, she's killing me, after she seriously bombards him with numerous twisters and rock boulders. So what does Zeref do? He tries to find a way to reach Tatsumaki, who's still smugly thinking she's ripping Zeref. Because at this point, Zeref is being ragdolled.

But she's flying.

So what does Zeref do? He teleports to her location and activates his trademark ability. Death.The Death Magic. He gives her the big D. And kills her.


Also my entire point is also if we do not consider the fact that the OP gave Zeref his highest form, which means he can literally just bring himself back by reversing time and reappearing to where he ended up, making your entire point about BFR Moot.


So.

There's absolutely no way Tats can win.

Woot.

Good night peeps. That's how it goes.
 
I'm actually pretty sure I covered all your points, just out of order.

Yeah it does fail, good job igniring the rest if the statement abd why it failed though.

Yeah a limit was shown, spaceship is likely too much, a city is fine though as shown by her lifting the monster base.

The hell? How in the hell is it? She left the regen alien up to the others and focused on taking down the ship, is it really that hard to understand?

Yeah it doesn't, and your right, i am gonna say because its Saitama, thats clearly, obviously, why it didn't work. Ya think her tossing dozens of city blocks, lifting a city and more yet her failing to lift Saitama 5 feet off the ground is an argument for her straining to BFR? No its because its Saitama, hes not actually heavier than a city, but because hes so far above her the tk aint doing shit. Also in that case with him, she wanted to prove her superiority over him, BFR aint proving your strength and heroism is better than him.


Youre right, she never did end up using bFR, but context matters dude, hence why i asked ya to find an instance that makes sense for her to do so and it being someone that isnt a thousand times stronger.
 
Hmm, I'm leaning to Zeref on this one.

While it is true that Tatsumaki might send zeref to space and he'll die from suffocation there, she never did it in character. While I am not saying she can't do it, Zeref has more possibilities of defeating her than she has.

1st of all Zeref can stop time(which admittedly he doesnt do IC, but if she sends him to space he can also activate Time Stop)

2ndly, Zeref's attacks ignore durability, which makes it hard for her to survive for long.

And lastly, Zeref also rewinds time whilst in FH form, giving the possibility to completely negate everything she does.

And to add the fact that he has teleportation, makes me believe that he wins this.

I'm not saying Tatsumaki can't win this, I'm just saying that Zeref has more in his arsenal that can grant him the win, unlike Tatsumaki.

My vote goes for Zeref.
 
She actually attempted to send Saitama to space before.

His time stop has a range, and it's not overly huge either.

Maybe so.

Time rewind was never ysed to neg attacks, ever, in the manga from what uve been told, it worjs on him sekf abd the area tonan extent, it duesnt null attacjs or ffects other people.

His teleportation has range too, and I've yet to be given an actual number for it.
 
on the subject of teleportation mest gryder can go accross an entire country. it takes a lot of power out of him to do it but, Zeref is absurdly more powerful than him. so teleportation is probably more than just a few hundred metres even if he is somehow less skilled.

So a vote for Zeref it is for me.
 
okay bearing in mind the context here is that mest or doranbolt (whichever name you prefer) had to teleport from crocus city to a prison in the magic council building of fiore (location is unknown but, apparently not in crocus)

Mest Teleports Cobra Fairy Tail
It is somewhat of a cutaway off screen thing though.
 
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