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Then if the spirits aren't always physical, how are we assuming they're influencing what the hologram systems display?
I meant Ener-D & Spirits or such.
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Yu-Gi-Oh! General Discussion
- Thread starter Zencha9
- Start date
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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- #164
1-Because they are the holograms itself
2-it gets explained there to four times ener-d is a living energy influced by humanity's consciousness it's why it got courrpted caused the end of the world and made the meklord army to wipe all of humanity
Godwin tells yusei that ener-d is related to ancient energy these being light and darkness the signer dragons being light and the earthbounds being darkness and people's hearts becoming dark is what's causing the earthbounds to revive again since it's the same type of energy
2-it gets explained there to four times ener-d is a living energy influced by humanity's consciousness it's why it got courrpted caused the end of the world and made the meklord army to wipe all of humanity
Godwin tells yusei that ener-d is related to ancient energy these being light and darkness the signer dragons being light and the earthbounds being darkness and people's hearts becoming dark is what's causing the earthbounds to revive again since it's the same type of energy
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Forgive me somewhat arguing from incredulity here, please, but how?
Aren't some spirits unique or finite in quantity of how many instances of them there are? What if more of a monster are in duels than instances of that spirit exist?
& if not all duelists can summon/manifest spirits, how are multiple instances of spirits getting to multiple duels all at once? Even worse if 1 spirit has to be in multiple duels.
Surely the technology, grounded in science that's understood & relatively mundane for that world, isn't creating spirits from nothing -retroactively or otherwise- whenever a new monster is summoned?
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Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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- #167
Holograms being spirits isn't related to seince it's mostly due to the human hearts connecting spirits to the cards or to the real world
A spirit existing in two or more cards isn't something new there's alot of spirits who summon themselves to the field and summon other copies of themselves we don't know how these copies are created but we know for a fact that they exist
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Human hearts connect to the cards or the real world means spirits are generated.... Even when involving duelists who can't & don't manifest spirits?
Also, what's the proof the copies had their own spirits?
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I dont want to play that.Tear is fun
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My bad, pardon the misinterpretation, please.
I think a spirit is a... kind of ghost from another dimension with magic powers that can play the role of a matching monster in a duel, when called into that duel via the appropriate method or duelist?
Feels weird that humans, even those with next to no spiritual awareness/power, apparently create spirits, especially considering they have origins in Ancient Egypt or other dimensions; If they're from the past or another dimension, it's weird to me that not only do humans create them, but any & every human does, for each & every monster they play in a duel?
Sorry for any bother.
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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- #173
im sorry if i came off as rude didn't mean to do that it's just how i usually talk anyways
spirits or monsters are just born from the human heart/mind etc it basically follows carl jung's concept of collective unconscious we don't know who came first the world or the spirits however we know that all of them were created by humans and humans alone
the spirits used to live in peace with humans until the orichalcos war happened dartz states that humanity's materialism is what caused them to lose spirits and that they lost the creativity to see the truth and feel emotion the latter being what created spirits to begin with
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They were created by humans, unwittingly, into dimensions external to humanity's own?
I see.
May be valuable to have scans for this, for future reference, perhaps as part of a blog.
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I mean, technically, the card games has feats in the form of card lore, & in some cases, art. Also, the Japanese version has the card lore on cards, so if it matches the IRL game, that might be noteworthy since some monsters have feats in their card lore.
Also, IDK if we can cross-scale from IRL card game to anime.
Reminds me that I need to do the shattering Luster Dragon calc, or get someone to do it.
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How do you figure? Isn't it similar to compositing?
But if the anime card lores match IRL card lore, it might be reasonable, especially if there's an in-universe reason for the card lore written on the cards to be relevant.
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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- #183
i'm pretty sure that's due to how the lore or the books of the lore talks about anime stuff like rainbow dragon etc and the anime does pretty much the same since they're just desgined to give you background on the monsters
pretty sure the anime is more impressive let me check
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The Legendary Heroes Arc?
I mean, if we consider that, although, IIRC, it was a virtual world made by The Big 5 as a trap for Kaiba, Yugi, etc.
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Real/Anime/Manga/TCG Monsters can't scale to their FBK Counterparts?
Can FBK versions scale to their counterparts?
Also, if we composite Time Wizard, it gets:
Level 3 Magic (Some FBK monsters have a Level X Magic ability, where X is 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5; Those with such an ability can use any "Magic" Item of the same Level or lower. Tragically, for all the versatility items offer, individual monsters can only fit three single pre-set-quantity stack of 3 items. For example, Time Wizard could fill with 1 of its 3 item slots with a 3 use stack of Gift of the Mystical Elf or a 5 use stack of Shadow Spell, etc. But each would take up 1 of its 3 item slots.)
Time Magic-Paralyze the enemy
Haste Spell-Speed team up and increase AP
AFAIK, no one's very sure of what "Speed team up" means in flavour; There's no visible difference in animation or attack speed, turn order is still random, IIRC, & it's unclear if it influences that.
Also, IDK what AP translates to; Extra Stamina? Do we interpret it as Speed because of this or Stamina? Game mechanics?
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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- #190
FBK can scale to the anime/TCG counterpart but im unsure if we scale the anime back would have to look for this when i play the game or something
about the magic items is there any expliantion to why they can't handle more than 3 itmes? because if there's none im sure we treat it as game mechanics and say the monster can get as many as they want
haste based on the name should be at worst "likely speed amp" you get what i mean
unsure about the last question can you rephrase that?
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I don't remember if Industrial Illusions was involved -May need to check the intro again- but the majority of the gameplay takes place in the world of the Kingdom, a game made by SIC, a company made by Scott Irvine (A former employee of Kaiba's in the anime, white hair, you see him during Kaiba's duel computer before Battle City.) & supposedly it's all SIC tech inside. Don't remember the exact wording.
This makes it curious, since they might not follow Pegasus's lore & stuff.
Well as said, the monsters & their item is part of an in-universe game, so it might be part of an in-universe game, but I don't remember if there was any dialogue about the item limit. So:
A. The item limit is part of the KINGDOM's game's in-universe actual rules, & is to be followed as opposed to being an abstraction.
B. It's game mechanics in the absence of much explanation.
Mind, this would give most every monster a plethora of obligatory abilities if we give them abilities for all the items; Magic is restricted by what, if any, Magic Level the monster has, Equipment is restricted by monster type, rituals aren't used in battle as they're for turning monsters into other monsters between missions, & everything else has almost no restrictions on who can equip/use it.
I mean, there's almost no indication they get faster. Doubtful it affects movement speed because that's overworld only & Attacks/Specials can't be used on the Overworld. But, have to give the description some credit.
Time Wizard calls an AP-giving ability speeding up the monsters, but there's other kinds of AP giving stuff.
How do we interpret AP for the purposes of profiles on our Wiki?
Oh, lol, also, I should clarify: Falsebound Kingdom has an AP System.
Monsters have AP Stars that they begin battles with. The quantity of AP Stars they begin each battle with is based on:
1. Monster species.
2. That monster's Level. (Monsters gain more AP at certain levels.)
3. Marshal Stats. (Different Marshals boost their monsters' stats by different amounts.)
4. How like or unalike the Monster's Colour Orb is to the controlling Marshal's. (Orb colour of a monsters & its marshal will change to match one another as they battle together.)
Attacking, Defending or Using an Item cost the monster 1 AP in Battle. Using a Special costs 2 AP. Waiting (Do nothing, penalty of 50 Points for using.) costs 0 AP. Using Escape costs all of a monster's remaining AP & is more likely to succeed based on how much is used. (These also have influence on a score system; If both sides run out of AP in a battle before 1 side is ENTIRELY wiped out, score determines who wins, & thus, influences the player's earned EXP.)
Put simply, AP stands for Action Points & restricts how much each monster can do per battle.
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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- #192
1-kaiba corp and Industrial Illusions work together to make stuff so this shouldn't be a problem
2-fair point i think we should specify in a note that these magic spells which would be under an equipment tab are possibly part of the game rules or are just game mechanics so the standard assumption shouldn't be that a monster is roided out with 200 spells or something
3-ey which is why im going for likely/possibly
4-my honest opinion is that it seems like game mechiancs
2-fair point i think we should specify in a note that these magic spells which would be under an equipment tab are possibly part of the game rules or are just game mechanics so the standard assumption shouldn't be that a monster is roided out with 200 spells or something
3-ey which is why im going for likely/possibly
4-my honest opinion is that it seems like game mechiancs
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Scott did not make the KINGDOM system working under KaibaCorp, though, he made it at his own company, SIC.
So some kinda note about Item limit, have Time Wizard's ability be a possibility....
& just hard assume Action Points are a Game Mechanic, unlike item limit rules? (I think items got like, 1 or 2 lines of dialogue. Action Points might have gotten a line or 2 in the intro.)
There's also the question of how healing works. For example, Fairy's Gift's Special is unique in that it heals the whole team (A Marshal may command up to 3 monsters at a time, so Fairy's Gift plus up to 2 other monsters.) for 50% of their max HP.
If we assumed this restored Stamina, but it cost Stamina to use, doesn't it outweigh the stamina cost to use it with how much it recovers?
& if it costs no Stamina....
There's also the Super Stamina Ability & Status Condition. I don't remember the descriptions for the ability & the item that grant it, but they make monsters heal over time.
If we call them healing without attributing any effect on Stamina to them, then what is being healed? Wounds & such aren't visible. Do we just assume they're made in that actual video game world?
Zencha9
They/Them- 4,222
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- #194
weird how did he get data on monsters then
for the 2nd post:
we need to see what they say about it at the begging since it seems important i just gave my opinon based on the information i heard about
yep, it seems like very broken stamina recovery lol
i think it's fair to assume that it heals minor wounds
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At the moment, my best guess is Industrial Espionage. Isono also works at SIC, as seen in the intro. I'll post some excerpts & summaries/paraphrasals:
Tea: "Doesn't the building look futuristic? SIC is a famous overseas game company, isn't it?" (IIRC, in Kaiba's intro, it's specifically American.)
Bakura: "It's a new game company that just started here in Japan, but it's already becoming a major player. Although it's relatively new, it's gotten pretty big by releasing a bunch of innovative games. They've been using 3D images and virtual reality research to create some amazingly lifelike environments."
Joey: "It sounds a lot like what Kaiba's company does."
Yugi: "According to this invitation, they're doing exactly the same kind of work as Kaiba Corporation. 'SIC has incorporated cutting-edge technologies to develop next generation virtual reality technologies. SIC hopes to work in the field of games to perfect this technology using the wildly popular Duel Monsters. SIC plans to further develop the technology through gameplay.' Their technological goals may be scientific, but if they're using Duel Monsters, I want to get a look at it!"
Yugi says he thinks they sent invitations to everyone that ranked well at the Duelist Kingdom & Battle City tournaments. Apparently, the letter said SIC was sponsoring a test trial.
Joey also apparently didn't receive an invitation, it seems, but the letter to Yugi did say to bring friends. & apparently Yugi is there as a finalist.
Joey recalls seeing Isono at KC once, Yugi says he thinks so but all of KC's people "give off the same weird vibe". Isono hears them.
Isono: "This is SIC's latest simulator. Code name: 'Kingdom'. This is just a prototype. We're only using the Duel Disk for packaging reasons. It's all original SIC hardware on the inside."
Joey: "Is this what you use to recreate the world of Duel Monsters?"
Isono: "Yes. Our tests of 'Kingdom' have been very successful so far. We've constructed an entire fantasy world based on Duel Monsters. We'd like you to help us test the simulator by simply playing the game as you normally would. The simulator supports multiple players, so you will all be able to go in at the same time. In multi-player mode, everyone joins the game as a different game character."
Bakura: "It sounds like a network game or something."
Tristan: "These new games are so awesome."
Isono: "Kingdom is a fantasy world. The card monsters there are alive. You will all join the resistance and fight against the Empire, which is suppressing the general population. Of course, you'll all participate in the game as different characters. The game is currently set for a few hours and we'll be recording your play data from here."
Yugi: "This is so exciting. I wonder what it'll be like."
Pharaoh: "...Yugi... Does this seem on the level to you?"
Yugi: "Huh? What do you mean?"
Pharaoh: "This whole simulator seems suspicious."
Yugi: "You're probably just overreacting. Ah! It's about to start!"
[Infodump about how after 300 years, the 12th Emperor Haysheen ascended to the throne & is being tyrannical/opressive.] Then an electric sound like power cutting out.
Yugi: "What's the matter?"
Pharaoh: "I don't know, but I've got a really bad feeling about this."
Kingdom: "KINGDOM SIMULATOR OVERLOAD
SAFETY LOCK ENGAGED. BEGINNING TRANSITION TO MODE-2 ...TRANSITION TO MODE 2 COMPLETE
KINGDOM SIMULATOR LOCK-IN MODE ACTIVATED"
Yugi: "What's happening?! UWAAAHH!"
After that, Pharaoh wakes up, being addressed as "Lord Yugi", & being introduced to the scenario by Shimon.
Interesting, all 3 campaigns share an element: Main character wakes up, told they'd passed out during a meeting, & the other character presuming they have memory loss, explains stuff to them.
Also, for the vast majority of the game after the intro, Yugi is Pharaoh/Atem, as opposed to Yugi Mutou, so that's usually who I'll be referring to as Yugi.
At 1 point, Shimon calls Yugi supreme commander of the resistance. He also mentions that "Without you, we don't even have enough Marshals". He may just mean "necessary to succeed", though. (The Marshals at that point are Yugi, Shimon & Fizdiz.)
Bakura: "It's a new game company that just started here in Japan, but it's already becoming a major player. Although it's relatively new, it's gotten pretty big by releasing a bunch of innovative games. They've been using 3D images and virtual reality research to create some amazingly lifelike environments."
Joey: "It sounds a lot like what Kaiba's company does."
Yugi: "According to this invitation, they're doing exactly the same kind of work as Kaiba Corporation. 'SIC has incorporated cutting-edge technologies to develop next generation virtual reality technologies. SIC hopes to work in the field of games to perfect this technology using the wildly popular Duel Monsters. SIC plans to further develop the technology through gameplay.' Their technological goals may be scientific, but if they're using Duel Monsters, I want to get a look at it!"
Yugi says he thinks they sent invitations to everyone that ranked well at the Duelist Kingdom & Battle City tournaments. Apparently, the letter said SIC was sponsoring a test trial.
Joey also apparently didn't receive an invitation, it seems, but the letter to Yugi did say to bring friends. & apparently Yugi is there as a finalist.
Joey recalls seeing Isono at KC once, Yugi says he thinks so but all of KC's people "give off the same weird vibe". Isono hears them.
Isono: "This is SIC's latest simulator. Code name: 'Kingdom'. This is just a prototype. We're only using the Duel Disk for packaging reasons. It's all original SIC hardware on the inside."
Joey: "Is this what you use to recreate the world of Duel Monsters?"
Isono: "Yes. Our tests of 'Kingdom' have been very successful so far. We've constructed an entire fantasy world based on Duel Monsters. We'd like you to help us test the simulator by simply playing the game as you normally would. The simulator supports multiple players, so you will all be able to go in at the same time. In multi-player mode, everyone joins the game as a different game character."
Bakura: "It sounds like a network game or something."
Tristan: "These new games are so awesome."
Isono: "Kingdom is a fantasy world. The card monsters there are alive. You will all join the resistance and fight against the Empire, which is suppressing the general population. Of course, you'll all participate in the game as different characters. The game is currently set for a few hours and we'll be recording your play data from here."
Yugi: "This is so exciting. I wonder what it'll be like."
Pharaoh: "...Yugi... Does this seem on the level to you?"
Yugi: "Huh? What do you mean?"
Pharaoh: "This whole simulator seems suspicious."
Yugi: "You're probably just overreacting. Ah! It's about to start!"
[Infodump about how after 300 years, the 12th Emperor Haysheen ascended to the throne & is being tyrannical/opressive.] Then an electric sound like power cutting out.
Yugi: "What's the matter?"
Pharaoh: "I don't know, but I've got a really bad feeling about this."
Kingdom: "KINGDOM SIMULATOR OVERLOAD
SAFETY LOCK ENGAGED. BEGINNING TRANSITION TO MODE-2 ...TRANSITION TO MODE 2 COMPLETE
KINGDOM SIMULATOR LOCK-IN MODE ACTIVATED"
Yugi: "What's happening?! UWAAAHH!"
After that, Pharaoh wakes up, being addressed as "Lord Yugi", & being introduced to the scenario by Shimon.
Interesting, all 3 campaigns share an element: Main character wakes up, told they'd passed out during a meeting, & the other character presuming they have memory loss, explains stuff to them.
Also, for the vast majority of the game after the intro, Yugi is Pharaoh/Atem, as opposed to Yugi Mutou, so that's usually who I'll be referring to as Yugi.
At 1 point, Shimon calls Yugi supreme commander of the resistance. He also mentions that "Without you, we don't even have enough Marshals". He may just mean "necessary to succeed", though. (The Marshals at that point are Yugi, Shimon & Fizdiz.)
Some relevant stuff:
Shimon: "Marshals are a type of general and are central to a battle. Marshals can control monsters and engage in battle by pitting their monsters against those of the enemy. Each monster has incredible power. Power equal to that of several thousand human soldiers. This is why the marshals hold the key to victory in any battle. However, the number of men with this power over monsters is small. Including you, the resistance has but three."
Yugi: "So you're telling me that I have this special marshal ability?"
Shimon: "You have it in spades, sir. Although I'm afraid that your powers might be weaker in your current state. You will just have to get it back slowly in battle. In the beginning, I will assist your recovery, Lord Yugi. Remember that imperial units usually have a marshal assigned to them as well. You will need to get your battle instincts back if you're going to defeat the imperial marshals. For the time being, we need to finish planning our strategy and organize our units. Come this way."
Pharaoh/Atem: "Well, this is a fine mess we're in."
Yugi: "I know. It doesn't feel like we have any control over the game."
Pharaoh: "I think it's safe to assume that we're trapped in this fantasy game world. They must have been planning on using us as their lab rats from the beginning."
Yugi: "I wonder if the rest of our friends are here, too."
Pharaoh: "It's likely. They're probably all just as confused by whatever character roles they've been thrown into as well."
Yugi: "We've got to find a way out of here."
Pharaoh: "I don't know how much of what the SIC techies told us is true, but they did say that this is a game."
Yugi: "Uh-huh..."
Pharaoh: "Then it's got to have an ending, right? Maybe if we play the game and clear all the levels..."
Yugi: "I know. It doesn't feel like we have any control over the game."
Pharaoh: "I think it's safe to assume that we're trapped in this fantasy game world. They must have been planning on using us as their lab rats from the beginning."
Yugi: "I wonder if the rest of our friends are here, too."
Pharaoh: "It's likely. They're probably all just as confused by whatever character roles they've been thrown into as well."
Yugi: "We've got to find a way out of here."
Pharaoh: "I don't know how much of what the SIC techies told us is true, but they did say that this is a game."
Yugi: "Uh-huh..."
Pharaoh: "Then it's got to have an ending, right? Maybe if we play the game and clear all the levels..."
Shimon: "I'm certainly not as strong as you, but I will also command a team of monsters and assist you. Just remember that none of our other marshals are nearly as powerful as you are. We depend heavily on you. Your success on the battlefield is the key to the success of the resistance."
Shimon: "Only a marshal commanding his own monsters stands a chance against an enemy marshal. No matter how weak a marshal may be, he can command up to three monsters. We're fighting an enormous Empire. The number and power of its monster units are just as frighteningly enormous. We must organize our own monsters into units so that we can combat the enemy. Lucky for us we have several monsters that are willing to fight for our cause. The first thing you need to do is organize the monsters into groups and then assign them to your marshals. Each group of monsters is called a 'Team'. Please try to remember that, Lord Yugi. Let's starting assembling our teams, shall we? After the teams are assembled, its time to send them to battle. When you are ready, please let me know. Also, pay attention to the center monster on each team. This monster is the team leader and the team's movement speed is determined by its leader."
Pharaoh: "I understand, I'll start assembling my teams."
Shimon: "The village is filled with supporters of the resistance. It will be a good foothold from where we can attack. As we free the nearby villages from repressive imperial rule, they will offer us items and money. We need both these things to help build up our force, so we should try to free as many places as possible."
Marthis, from Kaiba's campaign, seems to be someone who spoke on the matter of Action Points:
Marthis: "We have encountered the enemy marshals. It should be an easy win. When two or more marshals meet in battle, each commands his monsters to attack the enemy. If you defeat all the enemy monsters, you win. If you both are unable to completely defeat the other's monsters, and both teams have no Action Points left, the team with the advantage wins. When a marshal's monsters are defeated, he must return to his main base. The marshal cannot return to the battlefield until his monsters recover. If the Kaiba team is defeated, then the entire unit is defeated. Since you don't seem to be your old self just yet, try not to take on more than you can handle."
Here's Kaiba's intro, if you wanna scrutinize it for yourself, but I can do so later:
It has some similar details.
Feels weird calling it Stamina healing that costs Stamina when it costs AP but heals HP....
If we can scale card game stuff to FBK, might be able to scale it to what the card Super Rejuvenation depicts, because 1 of the items is Super Rejuvenation, & it grants the Super Stamina condition/healing effect.
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Well, the cards aren't in-game, but yes. Every item, be it Magic, Equipment, Ritual or generic, shares its name with a real card.
Feels a little weird to assume the AP are just a game mechanic, yet also assume the healing isn't, when we lack much metric other than the IRL cards' feats to measure the healing.
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Right. I'll keep an eye out for it.
I know a tier list that gets the in-game descriptions. I'll check what the move descriptions are.
....For the few moves that have it, anyway; Moves without effects aren't able to be checked for a description. For example, Dark Plant's attack can't inflict Poison until Dark Plant reaches Level 25. Until then, the move has no description.
