Yu-Gi-Oh! General Discussion

[Imaginym]

can't you use the in game models? i'm pretty sure they were ported
also here's a clip of Gilfer Flame in the anime

What do you mean?

I assumed a height for an in-game monster, & used as the basis to measure other things in the scene. For the DLB calc, I assumed Axe Raider to be average human male size, & for the GSF Calc, I assumed Dark Elf to be average human female size.

I do not know the exact pixel/model sizes of the monsters nor their attacks as they appear in-game.

 

[Imaginym]

can't you use the in game models? i'm pretty sure they were ported
also here's a clip of Gilfer Flame in the anime

Regarding the anime clip:

1. How do we know there's any realness to the attack? Many duelists often react as though in pain. This is also arguably a Shadow Duel, true, but mostly because Marik's using a Milennium Item to Mind Control Joey. What's the evidence of realness?

2. This would be a pain to measure. Besides that I might have to learn angsizing, we never see the full pillar of flame, & when we can see it, its not much bigger than Gilfer itself. If I had to guesstimate it with just my eyes & intuition, no measuring involved, I'd assumed it's a pillar maybe 4 meters tops (It doesn't look like the part we could see is much longer than Gilfer is tall, & 4 meters is assuming a "big monster" size for it.) not much thicker than a man's torso. Thus, if it's anything like the FBK version in hollowness, it might also be hollow. Either way, I'd be surprised if it got better results than Dark Laser Blast, AKA high end Wall Level.

Overall, while it might be proportionally less hollow (Hard to tell.) it looks far smaller than the FBK version is, or at least, any given part that's visible on screen at a given time is.

3. This could run into Calc Stacking/Cinematic Timing issues; Many of the possible measuring sticks in that scene go off frame. Also, it's hand-drawn, so not 100% sure size would be accepted as consistent between shots. In theory, MAYBE you could do something like, IDK, measure the on-screen part of Yugi before the camera moves to Gilfer.

 

[Zencha9]

i mean it's safe to assume they're somewhat comparable to normal humans in size yeah but i thought using models would be more accurate sadly i don't know how to extract models and shiz

on the other post:
i mean there's no reason for them to be real given how kaiba corp/industrial illusions tech is capable of mimicking the exact capabilities of monsters
fair enough on the other 2 points

 

[Imaginym]

i mean it's safe to assume they're somewhat comparable to normal humans in size yeah but i thought using models would be more accurate sadly i don't know how to extract models and shiz

Well, human sizes is what I did to base the calcs on. Sadly, I dunno of any official sizes for monsters.

on the other post:
i mean there's no reason for them to be real given how kaiba corp/industrial illusions tech is capable of mimicking the exact capabilities of monsters
fair enough on the other 2 points

"There's no reason for them to be real"?
So you feel the Gilfer in that scene & its attacks are not real & are nothing more than holograms?
Or is this something about Solid Vision; I don't remember the exact details.

(Also, sorry about how spread out the timing of my replying is.)

 

[Zencha9]

Well, human sizes is what I did to base the calcs on. Sadly, I dunno of any official sizes for monsters.

as far as i know there's no official sizes for these monsters

So you feel the Gilfer in that scene & its attacks are not real & are nothing more than holograms?
Or is this something about Solid Vision; I don't remember the exact details.

yeah they're not real in a sense but yugioh is weird with Solid Vision since sometimes it straight up affects humans like it's real and has some statements that say it can work for real like kaiba mocking the virtual world saying it can't even replicate the sense of touch and seto kaiba setting up the solid vision system in his duel against the AI when he was testing obelisk he set it up so that he can actually feel and take physical the damage and was going to die from the impact of the blue eyes monsters

and tbh none of this matters really given how accurate Solid Vision is to real monsters there's no actual reason to discredit it

 

[Imaginym]

as far as i know there's no official sizes for these monsters

yeah they're not real in a sense but yugioh is weird with Solid Vision since sometimes it straight up affects humans like it's real and has some statements that say it can work for real like kaiba mocking the virtual world saying it can't even replicate the sense of touch and seto kaiba setting up the solid vision system in his duel against the AI when he was testing obelisk he set it up so that he can actually feel and take physical the damage and was going to die from the impact of the blue eyes monsters

and tbh none of this matters really given how accurate Solid Vision is to real monsters there's no actual reason to discredit it

Scans of solid vision stuff, please?

 

[Zencha9]

Scans of solid vision stuff, please?

here ( 1 , 2 )
thanks for alonik btw

 

[Imaginym]

here ( 1 , 2 )
thanks for alonik btw

Alonik?

 

[Zencha9]

Alonik?

@Alonik the guy who first found the scans

 

[Imaginym]

@Alonik the guy who first found the scans

Ahhh. I'd have thought there'd be more details to Solid Vision.

From what I can tell:

1. Kaiba implies (In the Virtual World filler arc, meaning it's Anime Canon.) that Solid Vision can replicate the feeling of touch.

2. During the Duel Computer Duel, Mokuba states that if Kaiba is attacked, he'll take physical damage. Odd that Mokuba is worried about this only this far into the duel. Is there more about this?
Also, WHY will he take physical damage, beyond "Solid Vision"? Does it harden the air? Hard light? Air blasts? Force generators??

3. A technician in that duel says Seto's Duel Disk is set up so that he'll take physical damage; If they're pointing that out, isn't this implying it's new information &/or a new development, or distinct to Kaiba's DD? After all, if it wasn't distinct to Kaiba's DD, why mention it?

4. Also, they say "feel the attack damage". After Kaiba saying "replicate the feeling of touch", how do we know this is indicating physicality rather than making the duelists feel stuff, like pain?


I do greatly appreciate this, but I think more scans regarding the matter are needed.

 

[Zencha9]

2- they don't specify, but it is definitely not air nor force given how kaiba's dueling arena was supposed to be that
3-it was the introduction of solid vision and duel disks during the start of battle city
4-by feats, like this one i have others but would have to dig for them but i'm we remember stuff like that
like characters feeling cold when a water or freezing spell is used etc

 

[Imaginym]

2- they don't specify, but it is definitely not air nor force given how kaiba's dueling arena was supposed to be that

The arena introduced atop the blimp? I don't entirely disbelieve you, but what's the evidence it's meant to be like that?

like characters feeling cold when a water or freezing spell is used etc

Was that for like, Tea's Duel against Crump in the Virtual World?

 

[Zencha9]

The arena introduced atop the blimp? I don't entirely disbelieve you, but what's the evidence it's meant to be like that?

no, the one in duelist kingdoom. kaiba's motivation for creating it was because he got shadow game'ed and wants to replicate that

Was that for like, Tea's Duel against Crump in the Virtual World?

that's in the virtual world, but another example is dr chronos's ancient gear golem hitting his head and pressing against him when it gets destroyed

 

[Imaginym]

no, the one in duelist kingdoom. kaiba's motivation for creating it was because he got shadow game'ed and wants to replicate that

that's in the virtual world, but another example is dr chronos's ancient gear golem hitting his head and pressing against him when it gets destroyed

True, those are feats. But AtM, I'm more interested in more info on how/why Solid Vision works.

I mean, I think the force of a stone bigger than a brick hitting you on the head, followed by a huge stone anything falling on you would hospitalize a normal human; I don't expect fiction to follow reality to that extent, but I don't recall much for superhuman Crowler, & I'd question if it wasn't just Crowler being comedic. If there is a reason he felt pain or force or such from it, I want to know why he should.

 

[Imaginym]

Looking at the Wiki:
Duel Monsters cards contain microchips. When the cards are played in a Battle Box, Dueling Arena, Duel Disk or Duel Runner, the microchip is activated. The data it contains is used to created the Solid Vision holograms.

The Wiki cites: Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel 27: "Project Start!"

Unsure if there's more info.

 

[Zencha9]

True, those are feats. But AtM, I'm more interested in more info on how/why Solid Vision works.

I mean, I think the force of a stone bigger than a brick hitting you on the head, followed by a huge stone anything falling on you would hospitalize a normal human; I don't expect fiction to follow reality to that extent, but I don't recall much for superhuman Crowler, & I'd question if it wasn't just Crowler being comedic. If there is a reason he felt pain or force or such from it, I want to know why he should.

Crowler does have impressive dura feats in the jaden and alexis duel thunder giant's thunder hits crowler and he didn't have any issues and i assume he has much more due to him being the butt of every joke for a while

Unsure if there's more info.

the new duel disk doesn't use that iirc

 

[Imaginym]

Crowler does have impressive dura feats in the jaden and alexis duel thunder giant's thunder hits crowler and he didn't have any issues and i assume he has much more due to him being the butt of every joke for a while

the new duel disk doesn't use that iirc

Which "new" Duel Disk?

 

[Zencha9]

Which "new" Duel Disk?

Duel Disk 2 it's in the wiki the blue and white one it uses
also i found an explanation of sort

 

[Zencha9]

also wouldn't the monsters being spirits inside the cards imply that they're capable of what's shown in a duel? since i watched an episode where jaden's monsters get charmed in the duel against blair but none can see them or hear them talk except jaden since he can see spirits there's also alot of instances of spirits being inside cards

 

[Imaginym]

Duel Disk 2 it's in the wiki the blue and white one it uses
also i found an explanation of sort

Ah, so it uses a satellite to read the microchip data fast, & then the satellite sends the image data back to make the monster 3D.

I wonder if satellite really is necessary for processing & making 3D image data, lol.

Tragic lack of info beyond what Kaiba said about replicating the feeling of touch & causing physical damage.

also wouldn't the monsters being spirits inside the cards imply that they're capable of what's shown in a duel? since i watched an episode where jaden's monsters get charmed in the duel against blair but none can see them or hear them talk except jaden since he can see spirits there's also alot of instances of spirits being inside cards

Just because the spirits look like the holographic monsters in their likeness doesn't mean they have the same capabilities the in-universe Duel Monsters game depicts.

If someone went cosplayed as Godzilla & set up a hologram system to make it look like they had atomic breath, that wouldn't actually mean they have atomic breath.
So there's a bit of dubiousness over which abilities genuinely are from the spirits & which are based on the Duel Disk systems & such, IMHO.

 

[Zencha9]

Just because the spirits look like the holographic monsters in their likeness doesn't mean they have the same capabilities the in-universe Duel Monsters game depicts.

If someone went cosplayed as Godzilla & set up a hologram system to make it look like they had atomic breath, that wouldn't actually mean they have atomic breath.
So there's a bit of dubiousness over which abilities genuinely are from the spirits & which are based on the Duel Disk systems & such, IMHO.

none of this matters their souls are within the cards they're not just similar they're the actual souls manifested

 

[Imaginym]

none of this matters their souls are within the cards they're not just similar they're the actual souls manifested

The point is, some stuff is done because the system running the holograms tells it to do that, not because the spirit following the Duelist's orders did it, & thus there's ambiguity over what the Spirits actually are responsible for & capable of.

 

[Zencha9]

The point is, some stuff is done because the system running the holograms tells it to do that, not because the spirit following the Duelist's orders did it, & thus there's ambiguity over what the Spirits actually are responsible for & capable of.

there's only ambiguity if you discredit the system which has never shown anything that would discredit it and would make duelist kingdom and early battle city have no point why are they making up lore of monsters on the fly?

 

[Imaginym]

there's only ambiguity if you discredit the system

You mean the hologram system?
Also, discredit how? I'm claiming the hologram systems can do complex stuff & such.

which has never shown anything that would discredit it

I don't understand what you mean by this.

and would make duelist kingdom and early battle city have no point why are they making up lore of monsters on the fly?

But at that point, Kazuki Takahashi kinda WAS making up lore/abilities of monsters on the fly. In some cases, arguably, so were the anime makers.

 

[PsychoSSF2]

But at that point, Kazuki Takahashi kinda WAS making up lore/abilities of monsters on the fly. In some cases, arguably, so were the anime makers.

To be fair, even the manga wasn't exempt from this - ever since the GX manga, the stories in there are COMPLETELY SEPARATE from the anime's. The most popular example (for better or worse) is Arc-V with it's infamous plot twist at the end of the manga which has the fandom completely split apart.

 

[Imaginym]

To be fair, even the manga wasn't exempt from this - ever since the GX manga, the stories in there are COMPLETELY SEPARATE from the anime's. The most popular example (for better or worse) is Arc-V with it's infamous plot twist at the end of the manga which has the fandom completely split apart.

True. Yugioh Anime & Manga tend to vary significantly from each other, but at least the anime's arcs adapted from the manga usually follow it at least loosely.

 

[Zencha9]

Also, discredit how? I'm claiming the hologram systems can do complex stuff & such.

but they do it based on the lore of the monsters inscribed on the tablets so it's not like it's making shit up

But at that point, Kazuki Takahashi kinda WAS making up lore/abilities of monsters on the fly. In some cases, arguably, so were the anime makers.

yeah but how does that descreidt anything? kazuki was pretty treating yugioh an RPG adding lore to whatever abilities were shown and they're shown later to be correct

 

[Imaginym]

but they do it based on the lore of the monsters inscribed on the tablets so it's not like it's making shit up

I can believe that, but source.
Also, just because the hologram system does holograms based on the lore doesn't mean the monsters are doing those things.
Not to mention a lot of the stuff predates the introduction of the monster spirits stuff, no?

yeah but how does that descreidt anything? kazuki was pretty treating yugioh an RPG adding lore to whatever abilities were shown and they're shown later to be correct

Because, the story presents it as holograms, as opposed to the work of monster spirits & concepts that hadn't been introduced yet at that point.

 

[Zencha9]

I can believe that, but source.
Also, just because the hologram system does holograms based on the lore doesn't mean the monsters are doing those things.
Not to mention a lot of the stuff predates the introduction of the monster spirits stuff, no?

1-you need to understand the text of the murals in order to make the card
https://gyazo.com/b6eac5d7c8328a1bfc091d2585087c00
https://gyazo.com/0a159b641f4b0e891d6288231d53fa52
https://gyazo.com/98795866f76ec42ca01c86433eda8543
2-you're the one who made the assertion so this is not a point unless you prove that the holograms are inaccurate or don't represent what monsters should be which is impossible
3-monsters being spirits is literally the heart of yugioh so no the world of spirits does show up in the manga when kaiba gets punished in the manga, and arcana's dark magician is a spirit since he's the one who invites yugi to duel arcana despite arcana having no item to manifest him

Because, the story presents it as holograms, as opposed to the work of monster spirits & concepts that hadn't been introduced yet.

story presents the holograms as representative of what the monster should be*

 

[Imaginym]

1-you need to understand the text of the murals in order to make the card
https://gyazo.com/b6eac5d7c8328a1bfc091d2585087c00
https://gyazo.com/0a159b641f4b0e891d6288231d53fa52
https://gyazo.com/98795866f76ec42ca01c86433eda8543
2-you're the one who made the assertion so this is not a point unless you prove that the holograms are inaccurate or don't represent what monsters should be which is impossible
3-monsters being spirits is literally the heart of yugioh so no the world of spirits does show up in the manga when kaiba gets punished in the manga, and arcana's dark magician is a spirit since he's the one who invites yugi to duel arcana despite arcana having no item to manifest him

1. You're claiming the hieroglyphs indicate the monster powers (As opposed to warnings, restrictions, descriptions, or other stuff.). How do we know what they refer to?
2. I do believe that the holograms are based on the monsters & depict them. But my claim is that not everything the hologram systems depict can be attributed to the abilities of the monster spirits.
Feral Imp shooting lighting from its big horn when it got Horn of the Unicorn isn't one of its powers.
Dark Magician didn't create the box when Yugi played Mystic Box against Para & Dox or the Knives when Yugi played Thousand Knives against Arcana.

Not to mention this runs into the small risk that since the anime cards have the lore on them, there's a risk of the monsters contradicting that lore in the anime.

Not everything in a duel, or even that a monster does can be attributed to the Monster Spirits, or even be readily assumed to involve actual Spirits when nothing of the sort was involved.

Did Weevil repeatedly summon & sacrifice the spirit of Cockroach Knight in his Battle City duel against Joey? Despite that neither duelist regularly used spirits at that point?

3. Scans to verify Yugi actually put Kaiba in the world of spirits, as opposed to just screwing with his mind? & spirits are present early on doesn't mean spirits are always involved.
Also, I don't recall the Arkana scene well. How do we know that the Dark Magician luring him in wasn't just a hologram or such? Was there any statement or such? I can believe it was a spirit, but that doesn't mean every monster is a spirit.

story presents the holograms as representative of what the monster should be*

A story using holograms to present what monsters should be like doesn't mean the holograms aren't still holograms. Spirits aren't always responsible for what's happening.

 

[Zencha9]

1. You're claiming the hieroglyphs indicate the monster powers (As opposed to warnings, restrictions, descriptions, or other stuff.). How do we know what they refer to?

we know it's in general a power descriptions based on the egyptian text of the god cards

Feral Imp shooting lighting from its big horn when it got Horn of the Unicorn isn't one of its powers.

equip spell so false equivalence

Dark Magician didn't create the box when Yugi played Mystic Box against Para & Dox or the Knives when Yugi played Thousand Knives against Arcana.

yeah sometimes the cards don't manifest this is nothing new and no one is claiming that it's an actual power of the monster
it's the same as how sometimes the LP aura doesn't show up the real life reason for it is budget but then again this doesn't matter really

Not to mention this runs into the small risk that since the anime cards have the lore on them, there's a risk of the monsters contradicting that lore in the anime.

so far i haven't seen that

Did Weevil repeatedly summon & sacrifice the spirit of Cockroach Knight in his Battle City duel against Joey? Despite that neither duelist regularly used spirits at that point?

what does this even mean most people don't know about the existence of spirits like are you saying that spirits can't survive that? because they regularly do and im happy to show you if you want

. Scans to verify Yugi actually put Kaiba in the world of spirits, as opposed to just screwing with his mind? & spirits are present early on doesn't mean spirits are always involved.
Also, I don't recall the Arkana scene well. How do we know that the Dark Magician luring him in wasn't just a hologram or such? Was there any statement or such? I can believe it was a spirit, but that doesn't mean every monster is a spirit.

just checked it was an illusion, also headcanon the plot of GX says otherwise so unless you're taking DM in a vacum for some reason, there's a spirit in every card
also the DM was inside the TV and was talkative like a spirit solid vision can't do that,
also again you can't claim that unless you have something that completely discards GX or a statement that says not every monster has a spirit (which goes against GX)

 

[Imaginym]

we know it's in general a power descriptions based on the egyptian text of the god cards

What do the Egyptian Text of the God Cards & how do we know this applies to the other cards?

equip spell so false equivalence

My point is not everything a monster does is a power of the monster spirit.
The Horn of the Unicorn didn't enter that duel because a Monster Spirit used a power, it entered the duel because a duelist played a card & a technology system did some hologram creation & operations.
Also, if you're dismissing it because Equip Spell, Neos & probably Dark Magician & probably Stardust Dragon have plenty of equip spells.

yeah sometimes the cards don't manifest this is nothing new and no one is claiming that it's an actual power of the monster

What do you mean by "sometimes the cards don't manifest"?

also wouldn't the monsters being spirits inside the cards imply that they're capable of what's shown in a duel?

This was why I've been going on about all the "Not everything in a duel is the work of spirits" stuff.

it's the same as how sometimes the LP aura doesn't show up the real life reason for it is budget but then again this doesn't matter really

LP Aura?

so far i haven't seen that

Well, I think we should keep an eye out for it. Because if the anime has lore on cards & tablets writing out what they're supposed to do, we'll wanna keep track of what says.
Like, what if something says a monster attacks one way or behaves another but then its depiction in a duel contradicts that? (IIRC, Cyber Jar's effect was shown in 2 different ways.)

what does this even mean most people don't know about the existence of spirits like are you saying that spirits can't survive that? because they regularly do and im happy to show you if you want

If you wanna show scans, that's fine. More documentation is valuable. Do we have any blogs on the matter?
But the reason I brought up, is, as said, to evidence that not everything involves Duel Monster Spirits. Neither Weevil or Joey initiate Shadow Games & it happened in a normal location on a normal day, with standard Kaiba Corp technology.
I'd be confident the majority of their monsters didn't have spirits in them during that duel, as an example.

just checked it was an illusion, also headcanon the plot of GX says otherwise so unless you're taking DM in a vacum for some reason, there's a spirit in every card

Feels weird to use stuff from a future series that kinda works differently from DM's previous Spirit System & wasn't implemented at the time to claim stuff about a past series.

also the DM was inside the TV and was talkative like a spirit solid vision can't do that,

Thanks for that clarification about Arkana's Dark Magician.

also again you can't claim that unless you have something that completely discards GX or a statement that says not every monster has a spirit (which goes against GX)

Then what's the evidence that those spirits are active & summoned into EVERY duel, & why should we use future series retcons to apply that logic to previous series?
(Also, don't other series have different rules about the Spirits?)

 

[Zencha9]

What do the Egyptian Text of the God Cards & how do we know this applies to the other cards?

basically describes their power like how RA can turn into PM and burn your soul, because the god cards were the last cards that needed to be researched in order for duel monsters to be published

My point is not everything a monster does is a power of the monster spirit.
The Horn of the Unicorn didn't enter that duel because a Monster Spirit used a power, it entered the duel because a duelist played a card & a technology system did some hologram creation & operations.
Also, if you're dismissing it because Equip Spell, Neos & probably Dark Magician & probably Stardust Dragon have plenty of equip spells

i am not stating everything that happens in the duel is due the spirits's power lmao and even then you can't really prove that he can't use it so i don't get this line of logic

What do you mean by "sometimes the cards don't manifest"?

they just don't show up the effects are applied before the card does it's thing

LP Aura?

Life Point aura

Well, I think we should keep an eye out for it. Because if the anime has lore on cards & tablets writing out what they're supposed to do, we'll wanna keep track of what says.
Like, what if something says a monster attacks one way or behaves another but then its depiction in a duel contradicts that? (IIRC, Cyber Jar's effect was shown in 2 different ways.)

just means the spirit of cyber jar has different abilites or can be used in different ways doesn't mean a contradiction at all
there's some monsters who have other powers when attacking that get used by the spirit version later

Feels weird to use stuff from a future series that kinda works differently from DM's previous Spirit System & wasn't implemented at the time to claim stuff about a past series.

the series doesn't contradict it?, hell they literally use the same concept, GX just elaborates more on it and that being "our cards/spirits being a reflection of our hearts" DM's whole thing is about how humans have the light in their heart to overcome their inner darkness, GX uses the same thing but instead focuses on accepting darkness as a part of who in order to grow up it's not like the two shows are totally disconneted

Then what's the evidence that those spirits are active & summoned into EVERY duel, & why should we use future series retcons to apply that logic to previous series?
(Also, don't other series have different rules about the Spirits?)

because you're treating it as a retcon or new information completely disconnected from the previous setting
also no i went over the shows (DM to 5D's) and absolutely nothing contradicts each other

 

[Imaginym]

they just don't show up the effects are applied before the card does it's thing

They...? The monsters? The effects of the monsters? Something about the spirits?

Life Point aura

My point was I don't remember this well. When did we see something like this?

just means the spirit of cyber jar has different abilites or can be used in different ways doesn't mean a contradiction at all

Or its inconsistent about what its powers are supposed to be.

there's some monsters who have other powers when attacking that get used by the spirit version later

& some monsters aren't seen as spirits at all, or use different stuff from their spirit forms.

the series doesn't contradict it?, hell they literally use the same concept, GX just elaborates more on it and that being "our cards/spirits being a reflection of our hearts" DM's whole thing is about how humans have the light in their heart to overcome their inner darkness, GX uses the same thing but instead focuses on accepting darkness as a part of who in order to grow up it's not like the two shows are totally disconneted

because you're treating it as a retcon or new information completely disconnected from the previous setting
also no i went over the shows (DM to 5D's) and absolutely nothing contradicts each other

You did? Is there a blog or something?

 

[Zencha9]

They...? The monsters? The effects of the monsters? Something about the spirits?

the effects of cards in general

My point was I don't remember this well. When did we see something like this?

alot all throughout DM to to GO RUSH which airs currently

Or its inconsistent about what its powers are supposed to be.

you would have to prove that it's inconsistent like that they're unable to bend energy in a different way or something so good luck

& some monsters aren't seen as spirits at all, or use different stuff from their spirit forms.

headcanon frankly

You did? Is there a blog or something?

there isn't yet but im wroking it
the thing you're thinking about that might be inconsistent is ener-d energy yea?

 

[Imaginym]

headcanon frankly

When we see some duels, those duels are just done with holograms as best we know. Other than GX's claim, there isn't always much evidence that the monsters involved have their spirits present.
Not every duelist can or will call spirits, or does so for all of their monsters.

there isn't yet but im wroking it
the thing you're thinking about that might be inconsistent is ener-d energy yea?

I hardly remember what Ener-D is.

 

[Zencha9]

When we see some duels, those duels are just done with holograms as best we know. Other than GX's claim, there isn't always much evidence that the monsters involved have their spirits present.
Not every duelist can or will call spirits, or does so for all of their monsters.

not really as we can see monsters expressing their emotions etc holograms sre a way to portray duel monsters that has always been and will always be the case
also again this isn't a GX concept lol the very idea of trusting the heart of your cards is that your cards are alive and will respond to you when in need
i never stated that they can manifest spirits so

I hardly remember what Ener-D is.

then don't worry often in yugioh they use different names for the same concept KA being spirits for example

 

[JohnConquest1]

Sorry for derailing.
But **** the TCG and the state its in right now.
Thats it, thats all I wanted to say.

 

[Imaginym]

not really as we can see monsters expressing their emotions etc holograms sre a way to portray duel monsters that has always been and will always be the case
also again this isn't a GX concept lol the very idea of trusting the heart of your cards is that your cards are alive and will respond to you when in need
i never stated that they can manifest spirits so

But you advocate that EVERY monster in a duel is a Spirit, despite that you're not claiming they can manifest spirits?

then don't worry often in yugioh they use different names for the same concept KA being spirits for example

Evidence they're the same thing, please?

 

[Zencha9]

But you advocate that EVERY monster in a duel is a Spirit, despite that you're not claiming they can manifest spirits?

yeah what's the issue? no one has shadow games level of power to make spirits take physical form

Evidence they're the same thing, please?

lmao, but yea sure