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Yu-Gi-Oh Card Effect Revision

That doesn't mean it's on the same canon timeline unless Takahashi himself says "yeah it be like that". A dead Pegasus isn't important because Pegasus being dead was the motivation of the plot of the spinoff itself.

The thing about authors is like with DBS and R where you have the line that says "Original Concept by [Author]", but you have the real artist who made the plot and the story. In this case, Ito made the plot/story, but Takahashi is still credited because he made the concept of YGO.
 
I don know for sure, but from what I recall we assume itś canon so long as it desn contradict and is made by the smae publisher. Thatś why we allow things like the spinoff anime
 
We always allowed the YGO anime, we just split it from the manga because they were too different contradictory of each other.
 
Actually the separating point is how Kaiba got into a coma, not Pegasus' death. Pegasus dying versus Pegasus living is only a difference.
 
bbt was anime because you had the anime spinoff characters

pol was anime because 4kids was doing the anime stuff and didn't actually have rights to the manga, which went to viz media.

You could easily differentiate them without mentioning Pegasus.
 
Thats why we are using the novel for the anime version of Yugi.

PoL Movie had all of the rights 100%, tho Aribooooy.

Capsule Monsters Yugi already scales to every singlr season + PoL Movie.
 
No, 4Kids hadn't and never had ****** with the manga or any series they worked on, they let Viz deal with that department. Capsule Monsters and what you use for the Anime doesn't matter here, I'm arguing about R's canonicity.
 
I can agree that anime Yugi probably is stronger.... But we're an indexing site. Making the characters as strong as possible shouldn't be our primary goal in revision. Besides that, I'd question if Anime Yugi has a strong case for summoning.

In Season 4, it was because of the influence of the Seal of the Orichalcos.

In Capsule Monsters, he did it with a device & they may have been in another world. It's unclear, & I haven't rewatched it much.

In Millenium World, it's a world inside the Millenium Puzzle based on the Pharoah's memories, set-up by Bakura & there's influence from Zorc soul, which was apparently in the MP as well. Hardly summoning via his own power, IMHO. And if the other instances of him summoning were this kind, what about ba & ka? IIRC, when others summoned their monsters in Millenium World, if those monsters died, it drained their energy. Little of that to see in other instances. (@Arigarmy: You did a lot of looking into the Millenium World arc, didn't you? Can you verify if my understanding of that arc is correct, & for which canon, please?)

And in Pyramid of Light, it's not like it follows MW's summoning rules. It followed a Shadow Game's end from an evil spirit who had influence in the real world. Not to mention, BESD was made to rival the Egyptian Gods, by Pegasus himself, & we know the Gods can affect the real world without being played in a duel, especially in the anime. A card made to be as powerful as them, by the same Millenium User who made their card has good reason to have physicality independent of other sources, if you ask me.

I think there's good reason to believe BESD had power independent of its user. But even if you ignore that, it's Yugi's ONLY instance of summoning without being in another world, a Shadow Game, or in the Orichalcos's influence.
 
Okay, to the people that are on the present tense.

Are the haxes listed on my blog correct enough or are there some fishy ones?


Just tell me, and we add the skills and we can finally go and discuss his tier for the 2318th time.


That is literally the only thing left to do.
 
My bad, sorry. Only getting his hax within Shadow Games, 'kay.

Although, if we're talking Shadow Games.... We may need to look into the continuity.

There are some fishy ones. I looked over it, but it'd take a while to respond. There are things in it to talk about, yes. But ironing out when, how & if he can use his card-based abilities comes before working those out.

You say he can use them in Shadow Games, but.... Do we consider Season 0 part of our Anime profiles? I haven't found much mention of its role on Yugi's anime profile or the Yu-Gi-Oh! verse's page.

Looking at this post of yours, RapidMotorcycle19, it doesn't seem to be.

The reason this matters is when did Yugi ever start a Shadow Game on his own? He inflicted a Penalty Game against Kaiba after their first duel & against the Kaiba impostor, & after dueling Panik, but I don't recall him starting any Shadow Games himself.

And what about the other Shadow Games? Do we know if they gave the monsters physicality? How?

Bakura vs Yugi, Bakura put the souls of Yugi & friends into cards.

Pegasus vs Yugi, they go into the Shadow Realm, which drains stamina.

Bakura vs Bonz, we know that trying to leave the area of the Shadow Game just has you come back in from another direction.

It's questionable if Bakura vs Yugi in BC was a Shadow Game rather than holograms.

In Marik vs Mai, your monsters being destroyed makes you lose portions of your memory. There was physicality with Holding Arms, Holding Legs, & Sacred Stone of Ohjat restraining Mai.

In Marik vs Joey, Duelists feel the pain their monsters do. Hence things like Joey screaming in pain when Plasma Eel electrocuted Panther Warrior. There is some case for physicality with him feeling Lava Golem's heat, though.

In Marik vs Bakura, as you lose Life Points, you lose portions of your body. The same was true in Marik vs Yugi.


So, speaking in regards to Yugioh:DM, when did Yugi show he was willing AND able to start Shadow Games on his own where his cards are real? The effects of Shadow Games vary a lot over at least 8 different duels, & Yugi neither started one himself, nor did most make monsters "real".
 
I think this has already been discussed time and time again on this very thread but ill reply as clearly as possible.

1.- No, Season 0 isnt considered for Anime Yugi, because of the lack of Miho and Atem not being a pharaoh in that anime, just the one who protected tombs.

2.- Atem can indeed make shadow games just like the other millenium item users can, its just that he simply doesnt want to kill his opponents unless it is necessary. (For example, Vs Kaiba on duelist kingdom and against anubis on PoL where little Yugi literally killed Anubis with Shining Dragon´s effect.

3.-Pegasus´s shadow game was stated to be able to destroy weak souls (little yugi) over time, since you cannot hurt Atem directly within a shadow game because he is a duelist, the antagonists had to rely on the game itself to end him.

As evidence of this, its anubis again, who literally became a monster, and thus, vulnerable to Shining Dragon´s effect, which kills cards on the field, and Anubis is technically a monster now.


4.- The Shadow Game didnt end on PoL (novel), making Shining Dragon real enough to kill a physical Anubis.


Ami, come on.

We are on the finish line. We are this close to ending this thread.

Seriously, i dont think even Dragon Ball has had this much chaos in upgrades.
 
2. I'm assuming you mean when Seto & Atem dueled atop Pegasus's Castle? You say he can, but what proves that he can make Shadow Gams? Did he say to Kaiba "I could make this a Shadow Game, but I don't want to".?

2.5 Anubis showed power in the real world before the duel even began. How are you sure Atem began that Shadow Game?

3. "You cannot hurt Atem directly within a Shadow Game because he is a duelist". I'm assuming you mean they can't just go & punch Atem during a duel, which makes sense. But how was this relevant? Heck, IIRC, Pegasus made their duel a Shadow Game because he wanted Yugi & Atem to be unable to switch minds.

4. I assume you mean that because Shining Dragon's effect was being used on a "Monster" [Anubis], it wasn't harming Atem.... Except it didn't hurt anyone else, like Kaiba, Atem's original opponent in that duel. And a blast of "light" not hurting the good guys seems typical; A good force's power not harming good people is common in fiction. This same logic -good force's wide range attack not hurting good people- would be applicable if BESD's power to manifest & attack was its own power outside the duel, albeit, seemingly at Yugi & Kaiba's command.


Also, you say we're close to ending the thread, but don't we still have the list of hax to go over, which you've asked for input on?
 
2.- Atem can create shadow games beause of the millenium puzzle, which is comparable to all other items, and can chose if he wants to trap someone in a dark game. I mean, you dont see it often because he is a good guy.

But if Bakura and Marik can make shadow games, why couldnt atem? Its basic scaling.

2.5 anubis created a dark game with the Pyramid of Light, which the novel stated was a replica of the Millenium Puzzle Seto´s father did for him so he wouldnt feel less powerful than Atem, which didnt end in the novel, making shining dragon still a thing that exists in real life.

So, Atem clearly scales.

Unless you like to argue the Millenium Puzzle is weaker than the other items and its replica for some reason.


3.- Yugi is unnafected by card effects as a duelist, after all, i havent heard of a card that said "Discard one card, and kill the other player". Anubis became a "monster" and thus, was able to be killed by Shining Dragon.

Like we agreed above, if Yugi were to fight Goku, Goku wouldnt be a "duelist", he would be a "monster."


4.-Explained on point 3. You can only kill monsters with the effects, not duelists.


Yeah, the hax list was the last thing that needs to be determined, what ive told you in this post is the exact same thing ive been saying over and over again, man.

Lets just focus on the hax list, alright?
 
2. There are 7 Millennium Items. In Yugioh Duel Monsters, the Key, the Millennium Necklace, & the Millennium Scale weren't used to start Shadow Games/Games of Darkness, if my memory serves. And Atem didn't start any Shadow Games/Games of Darkness with his Puzzle. And when he did start a Penalty Game, it was after a duel.

So 3 Millennium Items haven't been shown to start Games of Darkness, & Yugi's has only caused Penalty Games after duels. As for its movie counterpart:

Sugoroku had heard about a rightside-up pyramid Millennium Item,counterpart to the Millennium Puzzle, from his old friends.

Anzu gazed at the Millennium Puzzle worn around Yugi's neck. "It really does look alike, butisn't it being displayed upside down?" "It's not. From the direction of the Text of the AncientPriests, the Hieratic Text, this is how it should be. This is a legendary treasure which I couldn'tfind in the end." Sugoroku wouldn't normally flaunt his past as a treasure hunter, but he wouldtell his dear grandson just a little bit about it. Yugi remembered that. "Does it have anything todo with the Millennium Puzzle?" "Mm-hmm. They say that the Pyramid of Light is the symbol ofthe King of Light. In other words, it exists on an opposite extreme to your Millennium Puzzlewhich governs the darkness." Yugi re-glanced at the Millennium Puzzle on his chest.

I'm not confident the two have the same powers, given that they "exist at opposite extremes" to one another. Not necessarily weaker, but different in what they do. One harnesses light, the other, darkness

As for WHY the Pyramid of Light was made, it wasn't to feel more powerful.

"While King Aknamkanon and I are brothers, the chances are that I will never assume the throne in my lifetime. And that is thereason why I will go through any means to try to make my son, Seto, king. If by any chance mywish goes unanswered in this life, I would like that, thousands of years in the future, Seto'sreincarnation become king." Aknadin retrieves a pyramid made of crystal inside of a goldencase. It was the Pyramid of Light. "Using the power of the eighth Millennium Item made insecret, the Pyramid of Light."

"That is why I am going to apply a technique. You will become a mummy and be able to keepalive, thousands of years, into the future, from now on. And if my ambition comes to an end,you will carry on my will and accomplish the deed."

It was to make it so that Aknadin's servant would carry out his will & make reincarnation king. But the servant became vengeful for being mummified & turned into a jackal after his loyalty, & hence, Anubis. Presumably, the PoL was to hold the soul of Anubis.

3. Well of course. You can't go & Raigeki Break your opponent in a duel. But that's game mechanics. Some cards make players take damage via effects too, so harming them in that way is possible. Less harmfully, targeting players with some types of effects isn't unheard of.

Anyway, you said "The Shadow Game didnt end on PoL (novel), making Shining Dragon real enough to kill a physical Anubis." & "Anubis became a "monster" and thus, was able to be killed by Shining Dragon.", I take it your argument is that....

The Game of Darkness continued after the duel ended, & after said's GoD's end, Anubis became a physical monster in real life, & then BESD, using its effect, after being summoned by Yugi & Kaiba, destroyed a "monster" [Anubis], & it didn't harm them because they were duelists, even though, in the Game of Darkness, they had been opponents?

Even though Yugi has never summoned monsters with physicality outside of the Seal of Orichalcos's range, outside of Memory World, & certainly not after a duel has ended?

Even though a card made to rival the Egyptian Gods would likely be as powerful as they were, & thus, able to manifest in the real world of its own power? Especially given that it was able to destroy the Pyramid of Light?

Ergo, when BESD was real, its power simply didn't harm those not of the force it was opposed to? It certainly didn't harm those from outside of the duel, like Tea or Tristan, who can hardly be called duelists.

Anyway, it's nearly 4 AM, & I'd like to get some sleep. So I'd rather debate this later. I apologize if you find me unpleasant, but that doesn't change my stances.
 
BESD killed Anubis with an EFFECT, a one hit kill that destroys any card on the field.


I mean, come on. Just focus on the hax list already, most of what you are arguing has already been discussed multiple times on this very thread.

Before expecting a reply from me tomorrow, you should read the entire thread again to see this fact.
 
For example this.

The Game of Darkness continued after the duel ended, & after said's GoD's end, Anubis became a physical monster in real life, & then BESD, using its effect, after being summoned by Yugi & Kaiba, destroyed a "monster" [Anubis], & it didn't harm them because they were duelists, even though, in the Game of Darkness, they had been opponents?


Anubis became a MONSTER, being threated like a card.

Shining Dragon kills CARDS on the field, Anubis was NOT a duelist anymore. Thats why Shining Dragon is able to destroy him.

Like ive explained in this thread, If Yugi fights Jaden, they are both duelists, inmune to each other´s card hax, but if Yugi fights Jotaro or anyone else, they are considered to be "monsters" that can be attacked by his own monsters and destroyed by several spells and trap cards.
 
Which bwe already agreed would be a sepaeate form at best.

The hax list is whats left.

Yugi would have summoning by scaling to the other millenoum items even if yugi didnt have any feats of doing so.
 
holy ******* mary and joseph i was digging through my files and i completely forgot i had this saved but i didnt categorize it with all my manga stuff so like

Slif
 
Well, that just means that God Cards in the MANGAverse have a bit of emotional manipulation, a direct counter with those characters with "indomnable will".
 
Huh, i legit didnt know that.

Well, then, i dont think that quote exists on the anime, but the manga gods should get willpower manipulation by just how divine they are.
 
I mean, Kaiba himself says that he is equal to obelisk, and by scaling, Ra.

But yeah, i am fine with it being just slifer, if that is reasonable.
 
That doesn't mean they share the same powers. If Obelisk had it too, Kaiba would've already discussed about it using him because he already beat a bunch of people using it
 
bump


please tell me which haxs are reasonable

I will assume you are okay with each any every one of them if i dont get a reply regarding that subject in 3 days (Wednesday 30th).

I will upgrade the Yugi profile based on the agreements done on this this and the past thread as justification for doing so.
 
I do feel there are other matters to discuss, but for now, I may as well go over some of the hax. From this blog, right?: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:RapidMotorcycle19/Yu-Gi-Oh!_Card_Effects_as_Hax. (Incidentally, the link may be screwed up. It takes me to a blank page. Likely because of the exclamation mark &/or period in the title. I got to the blog post itself via your userpage's blogpost listing.)

IMHO, we should follow a reasonable basis. Animation followed before game mechanics and the like.

Also, for now, I'm ignoring appearances in the Legendary Heroes & Virtual World, since Virtual Reality, & I'm not sure we can assume in-universe video game characters are the same individuals, &/or accurate representation of monster spirits' powers; I doubt Industrial Illusions, Kaiba Corp &/or The Big 5 actually managed to quantify a real BEWD's flight speed, for example. Little supports them other than being part of the same show, but they're still fictional versions of characters.


Catapult Turtle - What's it ignoring the durability of if you want to say that the opponent for a duelist is the monster? While there is some precedent for Catapult Turtle launching monsters as energy, often, it's just catapulting them. Also, as the effect is written in your blog, it would hurt the duelist using it. "The owner of the launched monster takes damage equal to half of its ATK."

Kuriboh - I'd wonder if this isn't Explosion Manipulation &/or Negation. It's primarily stopping an attack, but as it's depicted, there's usually not much hax involved. There's hax as a game mechanic, but Kuriboh is often shown as becoming a multiplying wall that may explode, even when Multiply isn't used. Other times, it's just the 1 that appears.

As for ignoring durability, Kuriboh only showed this once, IIRC. Against Relinquished, which was arguably weaker than it to begin with. I don't think its explosions have any basis to ignore durability, & as the weakest monster, it blocking attacks from far stronger things might be an outlier.

I will say that a chain reaction of explosions in a sort of wall might produce significant force to repel some force, but little else supports Kuriboh as an attack blocker outside of game mechanics.

Big Shield Gardna's Spell Card Negation Effect was never demonstrated in the anime . It's only present in the real life card game. However, its effect to switch it to Attack Position after being attacked while in Defense Position was demonstrated twice. (Although, technically, both effects seem to be present, given that its anime card text matches its Japanese effect text.)

Cyber Jar being One Hit Kill seems... dubious. I haven't viewed the episodes with audio, but in Yugi vs Bandit Keith, it just makes Celtic Guardian shake, then it shatters... in the same way that Cyber Jar shatters, despite one being destroyed by battle, & one being destroyed by effect, & in a way that's very generic/common for YGO monster destruction depiction. So it's difficult to tell if it's demonstrating any unique hax that WOULD qualify as OHK.

Against Kaiba, it shoots a green laser from its eye, red electricity crackling, and Battle Ox shatters. Then Cyber Jar fades away. IMHO, saying it would be One Hit Kill in a battle between beings with presence & influence in the Real World would be a No Limits Fallacy. "This laser kills you!" "What? Why? How?" "That's how it works!" There's nothing suggesting it isn't just a case of high enough AP, & we don't know how the hax works. Shoddy, IMHO.

Vibrating things to death -sonic attack or something? I need to double check subs; I went for Youtube first- doesn't seem that strong a basis either.


There's a lot more to go over, but each monster to check requires finding out when & where it's appeared, finding footage of that, & comparing each appearance. Tiring work, & I'll continue along the list -with some maybe being addressed out of order, if at all- later.
 
Arigarmy said:
holy ******* mary and joseph i was digging through my files and i completely forgot i had this saved but i didnt categorize it with all my manga stuff so like
Click to expand...
Just seeing this bit.

Is there any chance of this being, well, hyperbole? Fiction tends to throw "crushing wills" all over the place for verses but we dont instantly give them will or emotion type hax though. If theres more that goes into this then nvm.
 
Well then, let´s discuss this. I hope that this won´t be long. I´d hate to make yet another thread after this one.

1.-Other Stuff to discuss

I realyy think not, it has already been agreed on that Item users should get the ability to summon real monsters based on the evidence above on dark games, mainly backed up by PoL (Anubis acting as a monster in real life, the shadow game not being over, Shining Dragon using an effect on a non-duelist as a monster and just as the card description says, etc.) and BBT.

I have to mention that we have clearly ignored BBT, which has Paradox attacking people in the past with the intention of killing pegasus and Venice, laying waste to the city without even needing to activate a dark game.

Yubel throwing a warning shot to the people on the ground to scare them away so no one dies and Paradox also using Malefic world to alter the world around them. I will have to note that there are no projectors around.

This would also imply DM can be used without the need of a dark game, and would scale to DM, GX and all of 5DS since Paradox is referenced by his brothers on 5DS Season 4.

Bbt1
Bbt2
Bbt3
Thank Yubel! Who is Yubel? The demon that lives inside my head! Wonderful.

Bbt4



2.- a real BEWD's flight speed

It really depends on which way you wanna see it, really.

Deepeyes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmk9ml3YZL4
Deep Eyes travels from a star to the earth in less than 10 seconds, making it mftl, but this is DSOD.

Blue Eyes is Kisara´s soul and fought Zorc in the past, which would make Blue eyes comparable to Zorc in terms of speed for being able to fight him off.


(1/?)
 
1.- Catapult Turtle.

I have made a mistake on my blog.

THIS is the most reasonable effect for that monster: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Catapult_Turtle_(later_anime)

It reads: "You can Tribute 1 monster to inflict damage to your opponent equal to half of its ATK."

It ignores all def position monsters that could protect the opponent. If the opponent is technically a monster, it means that it ignores its intention to be able to defend something, since there is no duelist.

Maybe we could argue that characters with SUMMONING could be considered dueslist to some degree, Catapult Turtle would be able to negate meatshields. (Lets say, against Alice from Touhou and her dolls, Catapult turtle would ignore the defensive dolls and strike Alice directly.)


2.- Kuriboh PoL and BBT support DM cards being used as their game mechanics would indicate, like Malefic World changing the way the world and the sky look after activating it and Shining Dragon killing Anubis just as he would with his effect on any other card.

Kuriboh should 100% have explotion manipulation but also be able to negate attacks by sacrificing himself in reaction, at the very least, which would work against most attacks.

Now, it might be a bit out there, but if Relinquished has 1000 eyes, and Kuriboh was able to cover all of them, multiply multiplies Kuriboh at least 1000 times.


3.-Big Shield Gardna.

If the effect is consistent (Changing positions), then it should also have his magic destruction ability.


4.-OHK Cyber

That is the average "effect" for destruction. If the opponent is a monster, then it should also shake and explote in triangles.

And, if you are refering to other cards having OHK, there is Magical Knives, Cards that force a sacrifice of the other player´s monster and Ra.


"This laser kills you!" "What? Why? How?" "That's how it works!"

There are tons of OHK based on game mechanic kind of attacks on the wikia already, like Shin Megami Tensei, Bravely Default and more, which target the opponent and inflicts death into it.

So technically, that IS how it works, AP really isnt a factor. Like Mind Hax affecting anyone who doesnt have a resistance to it.
 
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