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Yu-Gi-Oh Card Effect Revision

And Noah did have control over the virtual world, but the rules seemed to be fair for both of them. (Aka didnt force shit cards on yugi, or have him only have one life point or that sort os stuff), if that os the case, then the cards he drew were indeed part of his amazing luck.
 
"For example, Yugi vs Pegasus has their friends block Pegasus's millenium eye and power of friendship also made the gods powerful enough to face levaithan." Rapid, I mentioned & acknowledged that already, in point #1: "Yugi's friends have been able to have supernatural powers, as seen near the end of Yugi vs Pegasus, where they blocked Pegasus reading Yugi's mind with his Millennium Eye."

And I kinda already brought up the point of your second post: "Noah also has control of the VW; But I don't think Noah's control is as relevant to this feat, it doesn't seem to be passive, plus, he doesn't seem to ever manipulate anyone's draws anyway."

I don't deny Yugi's friend blocking Pegasus's mind reading. Nor do I deny Noah's power in the VW. Although, for the latter, he seemed to have to actively decide when & how to apply his powers, rather than everything always bending towards his will there. Although, I assume how Noah's powers in the VW work isn't quite the point of this thread.

Also, IIRC, Leviathan wasn't actually beaten by power of friendship. I had the scene confused a bit. What it was was that it's FUELED by the darkness in peoples' hearts, & when the monsters & humans removed that from their hearts, that weakened Leviathan.

This dependency is made a point in the arc; The Orichalcos lost its hold on Rafael & didn't take his soul when he lost in his rematch against Yugi, because he had confronted the darkness in his heart.

Likewise, Leviathan was alive as its spirit even after its physical form was destroyed by the EGs because Atem still had darkness in his heart he hadn't completely purged.

So it wasn't beaten by the power of friendship, but rather, the removal of darkness in peoples' hearts. That removal was worked towards with positive memories and the like, but I'd definitely call it not a friendship feat, given other events in the arc.
 
Sorry, sorry.

I didnt read up to that part. Bad habit of mine.

But yeah, i do agree with whatyou said.

Yugi wouldnt technically cheat on a "friendly" match.
 
I can definitely agree. He rarely uses his Millennium Puzzle's powers except to switch minds. And as mentioned, IMHO, he'd almost never start a Shadow Game unless bloodlusted, since we never see him start one. (Nevermind the doubt that puts on that ability of his, since his anime profile doesn't consider Season 0.) We do know he can inflict Penalty Games at the end of duels at least.

Also, I edited in a response to something in a post of yours I missed. Just posting this to alert you to that, even though I dislike frivolously increasing the post count, since that makes the thread die quicker, leading to need for the busywork of creating new threads, etc. Pardon that, please.
 
I guess that makes sense. So it is not that the gods got stronger, but Leviathan got debilitated by people having purged darkness from their hearts.


And i agree. We have never seen Atem go and start a dark game against kaiba, joey or Yudai, they are his friends after all.
 
Indeed. He participated in several Shadow/Dark Games, yes, but every time, it was always the antagonist -ergo, not Atem- who started the Shadow/Dark Games, if we're excluding Season 0.
 
Yeah, but Yugi should have the ability to start them by scaling, or being bloodlusted.

He casted penalty games on Kaiba, Imitator of Death and Player Killer of Darkness.
 
@SomebodyData: At the end of their first duel; The Mind Crush. It's glossed over a bit, but Seto Kaiba has to spend a bunch of time putting his mind back together, & while that's happening, Duelist Kingdom starts.

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Penalty_Game

"In the NAS anime, Mind Crush is the only Penalty Game shown to be used. Aside from sealing away Kaiba's evil side (instead of shattering his heart into fragments and turning it into a puzzle like in the manga), it has also been used to kill Ghost Kaiba (a shape-shifter that was hired by Maximillion Pegasus as a Player Killer), PaniK, and rendered a mugger unconscious (the game in which the mugger lost was to draw a card, and whichever card is the strongest wins). In the Japanese version, these three victims disappear off the land or be in a state of unconsciousness, or in the dub, banished to the Shadow Realm."

Which I suppose is some basis for Yugi being able to start Shadow Games, thinking on it. In any case, though, Penalty Games only seem to be given out for losing Shadow/Dark Games in the NAS Anime.

I'm unsure if we would say he does use them under SBA, or only when bloodlusted; Most opponents Atem/Yugi would be on par with with his "card powers" would be well above his tier otherwise.

He'd be "willing to kill", though, so if he realized that tier difference, he would use them.... But more often than not, he'd have to be bloodlusted if their exclusion in the match made it a stomp?

Case-by-case, I suppose? Profile note?
 
Profile note, perhaps.

But Atem has been willing to kill various times. Against kaiba in duelish kingdom and against Marik (when he attacked with infinite exodia, knowing that good marik's spirit would 'die' if it succeded.)
 
There WAS an extensive card list to go over, no? For what it's worth, I only gave my opinion on some of the cards.
 
I tought you only had issue with those cards.

If you have any issue with some of my interpretations of the effects, please do say so. Id hate to make another thread just to correct such issues.
 
I'm not sure. Also, it's good to wait for other people's input on matters. I'm typically distracted on weekends, & as mentioned, there's stuff I want to double check. Research & such. I apologize for all the delays.
 
Yeah, its just that this thread has gone for quite a while.

and do try to keep in mind this is just for the card effects, we can discuss Duelist exclusive hax in another thread.
 
I apologize for the delays. But I didn't say I was unopposed to all the currently proposed card effects. I've been distracted & tired lately. If you want some discussion points....

For one, I feel we should try to base Yugioh card effect/monster abilities based on what animation & statements tell us before we go by the card effects.

Obnoxious Celtic Guardian's invulnerability is dubious, IMHO. Yes, things have attack potency, but just like things not from Pokemon lack Pokemon types, it could be assumed things that aren't YGO cards lack ATK values.

Magic Jammer specifically works on Magic/Spell Cards. Similarly, non YGO stuff may not have the Magic/Spell types & sometimes, supernatural stuff is classified as traps. What it can null is ambiguous. It's also obviously not a Power Null for everything if we assume it works on Magic/Spells; I doubt psionics qualify as "magic".

Seven Tools of the Bandit: Most opponents won't have "Trap cards". List if you want I suppose, but almost never applicable in a typical match.

Dark Magic Curtain, as it works in the anime, allowed the opponent to summon as well.

The Seal of the Orichalcos, IMHO, is highly suspect to include. Atem only ever used it after getting it via Exchange with Rafael, & it was reclaimed shortly after, & they were hesitant/wary of it. At best, only applicable when bloodlusted, but it's still ultimately a card he only ever had temporary access to & was wary of. Outside of that, the Yugi that used it -& his cards & Duel Disk- weren't real, IIRC.

Hand Control, Card Destruction, Lightforce Sword - Most non-duelists do not have hands of cards.

Breath of Light is suspect to use. He's had it in his hand in Duelist Kingdom era anime shots, but never used it. It would be out of character to use, given he never used it, & we see no sign of it being included in his later deckbuilds.

Multiply created seemingly infinite Kuriboh, but when used on a different monster, Metal Fiend Token, it created only 2 new tokens. I don't think it multiplies infinitely for non-Kuriboh.

Your blog also lists 2 different effects for De-Spell, each under a different entry.

No, that is not all the things I have on my mind, but I'm very tired right now. I can't always input here.
 
1.-I must say that Shining Dragon's effect was 100% based on game mechanics, with the opponent being classified as a monster.

2.-While opponents can lack ATK values since we do not have a proper scale (and havent read the entire thread from 2 years ago), that is correct.

BUT that does not make them inmune to effects nor insta kills against monsters, as shown with anubis.


3.- They should be aplied as long it is considered "magic" or anything that can be qualified as a trap as long it is not part of outsmarting or part of the opponent itself.

4.-Seven tools of the bandit should avoid yugi from falling into a ninja trap,, for example.


5.-As long the opponent doesnt have abything to or cant summon, the effect aplies.

Lets say, Alice from Touhou and her fairy doll thingies. She should be allowed to summon one of them.

6.-we agreed not to ibclude seal of orichalcos.

7.-things that target hands should not be applied.
 
But there is a certain level of consistency with atk though, just like how we apply dark resistance to psychic abilities. Things like debuffs should apply normally.
 
You should update the blog to exclude cards that likely shouldn't be included. The title also needs to be fixed so it can be accessed from a hotlink, then; It looks blank if not accessed via your blog page.

Also, Cyber Jar's inclusion in Yugi's deck is questionable. The only times he uses it are against Noah, when he was using a virtual deck of cards that was his deck mixed with Kaiba's.

In theory, both could have it.... Kaiba arguably has Cyber Jar as a real card, since his KC DuelTek 1000 Duel Robot uses it & Kaiba is known to own many rare cards through his briefcase shots.

But Yugi is only shown to have a physical Cyber Jar card via this shot: vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/yugioh/images/5/5d/DeckMistakes-Yugi-Episode85.png/revision/latest?cb=20130501231044 (Note that Cyber Jar looked normal in the original; It being green is a 4Kids editing mistake.)

That shot is a bit questionable, since it shows Lady of Faith, Black Illusion Ritual, & Premature Burial among Yugi's cards, 3 cards which he never uses. It also shows him having 2 copies of Giant Soldier of Stone.

I can believe Kaiba having lots of cards he never played, since he's made a point to show his briefcases of rare cards before, & he's a wealthy card collector, but we rarely see Yugi try to obtain new cards, even in Battle City when there's an Ante system.

Hence, I'd think that shot is an unreliable basis to use for Yugi's deck, given it shows several cards he never used. And outside of it & the VW, Yugi never used Cyber Jar.
 
The point is Yugi never played Cyber Jar. No anime shots show it in his hand. He used it once in a duel with Virtual Cards, and in a duel where a ton of the deck wasn't his.

It's not like he could take VW cards into reality, so as far as real duels and decks are concerned, at best, he's considered using it, & the shot that shows it among the cards -the only time he's shown to have it- he's considered for his deck has several cards he was never shown to use and a duplicate of a card he only plays, at most, once per duel. There's no proof he actually put it in a deck of real cards of his own and owning it doesn't mean he used it.

Also, you think Yugi changes regularly, but Kaiba doesn't? Almost every duel, he's shown new cards.

And Kaiba has multiple briefcases shown, with a lot more than just normal monsters and old Spells/Traps:

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Seto_Kaiba's_Decks#Briefcase He has had FOUR briefcases shown. Not to necessarily say that the cards should be included unless we've seen them in his hand or played during a duel.
 
We agreed on the beggining of this thread that the deck Yugi would have would be a composite deck, with all monsters and magics and traps he has been shown to use.


Kaiba also has a composite deck on my blog, i use the wikia to see which card have been seen in their decks every season, dont hold it against me.


---

Kaiba almost always uses a Blue Eyes centered deck, thats why i dont agree with literally adding a bunch of random cards in those four briefcases (0r all possible DM cards with his duel links system from Dsod).
 
IMHO, including cards that he's only used in the Virtual World doesn't make sense. If he never used them outside of it, he's never owned the real versions of those cards to use outside the VW.

Composite Deck or not, we shouldn't have their decks include virtual versions of cards because there's no way they can use those cards anywhere but the Virtual World, and likewise, they didn't take their real decks into the VW either; The decks they used in the VW were constructed from the VW's database of cards.

And the Wiki tracks all the cards they've owned, not just the cards they've been shown to use in their decks in duels.

For example, Yugi was never shown to use Premature Burial, but he's shown ownership of it.

Likewise, Kaiba's briefcase is full of cards he's never shown to use, but still owns.

Hence, as an example, giving Yugi PB but not Kaiba his briefcase cards seems hypocritical.

Kaiba also didn't always put BEWD front and center. Against Ishizu, he tried to mill her, and originally planned to win with Obelisk. Against Yugi in Battle City, he planned to summon Obelisk, & had planned to use his XYZ (X-Cannon Head & whatnot.) to support this.

And although he regularly plays BEWD, he uses a variety of other dragon cards, too. (Kaiser Glider, Spear Dragon, Hyozanryu, Different Dimension Dragon, Lord of D., Flute of Summoning Dragon.)

He put more focus on his XYZ in Waking the Dragons, & throughout a lot of the series, he's also used Virus Cards. (Crush Card, Virus Cannon, Virus Dragon, etc.)
 
I guess thats reasonable enough. for the virtual world cards, but some are indeed in their decks by season 3.

--

I think thats mostly wrong, they do have a note that explains the reason why that deck has been listed.

---

And, like i said, its unreasonable to just take away cards they do own, but have not used. DM hax scales to all cards they have on their possesion as legit real life cards.

So, Premature burial will stay because its on his deck at one point on his deck.

Kaiba has always used a blue eyes centered deck, also i have to say that we DO NOT KNOW which cards are on the briefcases, do you want me to assume that he has managed to buy every single DM card out there with his money? No.


I am not saying Kaiba doesnt change cards on his deck, because he obviously does. But we must only count the changes shown in the various arcs across the series, not random cards on the briefcases.

I think this is proof that im no wanker. I ******* love kaiba, but having he have every single Yugioh hax out there would be unreasonable.
 
I'm fine with including cards they've used in the Virtual World but ONLY IF they've used them outside of the Virtual World.

"I think thats mostly wrong, they do have a note that explains the reason why that deck has been listed."

Except that for Lady of Faith, Black Illusion Ritual, Premature Burial, & Cyber Jar Yugi has NEVER used them in a duel. (Excluding Cyber Jar's 1 use in the VW when his deck was merged with Kaiba's, but owning=/=including in your deck.)

We never saw him draw or play them. And the note explaining their inclusion in the decklist is:

The scene that note refers to is where we saw those cards in his deck rebuilding is their only appearance as real cards under Yugi's ownership and that scene is the same scene that shows Yugi owning 2 copies of Giant Soldier of Stone.

With so many mistakes, I don't think it's a reliable basis for cards Yugi uses in his deck.

For example, if Yugi did build his deck with those cards, why would he use the Ritual Spell for Relinquished, something he's NEVER used? Thus, if we didn't see cards from that scene used in a duel, we should assume he decided not to include them in his deckbuilding.

Yugi has NEVER played Premature Burial in a duel, nor has he ever played a real Cyber Jar card, nor Lady of Faith, nor a second Giant Soldier of Stone, nor Black Illusion Ritual.


I'd also debate Kaiba's decks being all BEWD centered when several times, he's been shown to try to use alternate strategies. (Mill, virus, XYZ, general dragons, Obelisk, etc.)

Also, regarding Kaiba's briefcases, the Yugioh Wiki has actually listed the cards in the briefcases that are visible in the scene. I'm not saying to include them in his decks unless he's shown to use them, but it's definitely not every card.

And if you're opposed to taking away cards they own but didn't use then give Kaiba his briefcase cards. It seems clear that several of the cards in the episode 85 scene were just things from Yugi's collection he considered for deckbuilding but didn't use.
 
1.-Thats enough to add it to the list. Seriously, it is physically in his possesion and not on a temporal manner like Seal of Orichalchos or the VW Cyber Jar.

Yugi has NEVER played Premature Burial in a duel, nor has he ever played a real Cyber Jar card, nor Lady of Faith, nor a second Giant Soldier of Stone, nor Black Illusion Ritual.

That does not matter in the slightest, Ima. If it is on his deck, it has to count.

Him using it or not depends on the situation at hand.

2.-They are canonically always centered on Blue Eyes, but he DOES chance cards on his deck between season, i totally agree with that.

Kaiba´s briefcases are unquantifiable, we have not seen any of the cards listed actually being on his deck at all, if he had been shown trying to arm other decks against the pharaoh or using a separate deck on occasion, i would agree with this. But i still stand that only cards that have been shown on DECKS should be appliable.

But, this isnt that important at all, i can give this point to you and add those cards to Kaiba´s future profile, but that will be entirely on you.
 
Don't know now if it's still important, but there was a Japanese origin for Capsule Monsters called "Yugioh ALEX" according to some sources
 
Nowni must state that bith PoL movie and Capsule Monsters ARE Coproductions between 4kids and the japanese staff.

And thus, should be canon to Anime yugi.

But hey, its not gonna stop the creation of a 4kids yugi profile because of the armors alone in case its gonna get rejected.
 
I think you find it does, in the earlir threads.

Even if it wasnt. creating a timeline on itself is reasonable enough for me, even if it might not be combat aplicable.
 
Anyways, should we have Kaiba´s profile have his memory world form?

Because, seriously, having a semi-useless 9-C around when he has too much good hax is almost insulting.

Yu gi oh duel monsters kaiba seto render by raidengtx-dberoz5
That old and busted render is pretty ***** compared to this one.
 
There's a bunch of stuff I wanna discuss. I've just been busy, mind you, as have a bunch of other people involved in this, you know.

Also, how useful someone is in a fight isn't usually our first reasoning for revising them. (Also, Kaiba might be 9-B via scaling if we're being technical. Maybe.)
 
Maybe, maybe.

But his true potential comes from his DM hax being complemented with his fate manipulation.

Yeah, at least a "In a Dark Game" tier would be decent enough even if the opponent cannot create them.

We are indeed scaling Blue Eyes to Zorc despite the fight being shown was inside Memory World

Come oooon, just let my boy have this optional foooorm. Come oooooon.
 
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