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Yu-Gi-Oh Card Effect Revision

Kukui, hey. How has it been going.

Is there any chance of this being, well, hyperbole? Fiction tends to throw "crushing wills" all over the place for verses but we dont instantly give them will or emotion type hax though. If theres more that goes into this then nvm.


I think that most feats on this wikia doesnt necessary have to be scaled to other feats, for example, RPGs.

Its just a chain of "That does this. Okay, show me another instance these kinds of stuff do this. Okay, this does this. Okay, now back that up with something else."

For example, some attacks in Shin Megami Tensei kill the opponent with the lowest "stat", which would take effect on the opponent if he can´t dodge/resist it.


And, maybe some other example of fiction breaking wills in on order?
 
So yeah, i think card effects should also be able to be used outside of dark games because of BBT, but, i am also fine if it is in a dark game, since you can always say the fight starts on a dark game on a versus thread.

The PoL movie scales to Capsule Monsters Yugi, which scales to almost everything ("Canon" Japanese Anime) Yugi has.
 
ive been meaning to ask, but wouldnt that make most of them glass cannons, at least while theyre not in defense mode?

As for OHK, i think there is a difference when its more shown that the ohk is simply done by the game mechanic and the card effect. Like literally trap hole is a trap hole, a thousand knofes is a thousand knifes etc.
 
Well, if someone is stronger than you, then yeah, DM would get destroyed by a direct confrontation.

Well yeah, it is a game mechanics, but that is exactly how it is applied in the PoL Novel, Shining Dragon can destroy any card on the field alongside itself, not exactly what the card "shows" by their "animation".

For example, Banishing should always count as a BFR since there is a trap that returns banished monsters to the field, and that is literally "Return from the Different Dimension.".
 
banishing being bfr is fine with me.

i guess? but doesnt that mean we would have to consider other mechanics too, like traps needing time to be activated?
 
To be fair, there are traps that can be activated from the hand. (Aka, instantly in gameplay terms.)


It might take time to place the cards, but they are activated on reaction against wathever the opponent does.

Existing, Attacking, etc.
 
there are? ive been playing yugioh for a long time, and i havent heard of that.

i can see attacking, but i doubt "existing". and if we really wanna go game mechanics specially, they cant attack first right?
 
Thing is, fighting a duelist, is like facing all monsters they have at once. Mostly because Yugi 100% has probability manipulation via destiny draw (Shown in games and in Marik vs Yugi, where he wills Kaiba´s Beast Sanctuary into his draw, pretty much negating luck in any scenario. If desperate, Yugi WILL draw the card he needs. (Aka. Cheating)


They are called "Hand traps" yugi doesnt have any, but they do exist.

Anyways, i think some cards like those who kill something that has been summoned really shouldnt apply since the opponent (aka. the monster) is already on the field fighting Yugi. So, ignore that.

Most traps ony work when you are being attacked anyways.


In conclusion.

Unless the opponent summons something after itself, Traps or Magics that kill monsters that have been summoned (ex. all of thosehttp://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Summon_negation_window), these should not work at the start of any versus match, since the opponent is already there.
 
Didn't he have to concentrate a significant time to do the destiny draw, ignoring the fact that he doesn't use that in character?

...hand traps? Have you not played Yu-Gi-Oh in a long time? Hand traps are just a term for monsters that activate their effects from your hand....

Kk I see, that makes sense. But it doesn't answer my question about attacking.
 
He used it in character in his duel against Marik, and in a world where a guy can see into your mind with an eye and a girl can see your future moves with her necklace, drawing the card you want is reasonable enough in my eyes.


Yeah, sorry about that.


And, it is kinda weird.

Verse equalization might allow the opponent to attack as soon as they see fit, since they are being considered monsters to card effects instead of actually being one, so the DM rule about them not being able to attack on the first turn might not apply.
 
That.. is literally a one time thing. That doesn't make it in character. The rest didn't even relate to his character.

Nah, verse equalization doesn't do that. It makes so that sources of power (like chi and life force) are considered the same, but the mechanics themselves doesn't actually change
 
Lemme look for some other instances of Yugi just drawing wathever he wants, but if Kaiba could just draw two blue eys out of the blue in Mermory would, he should scale, Duel Links has Destiny Draw as a legit ability yugi has and some wikias say it increes your chances to win in a game.

But i will look into it to gather some more solid proof.

--

I guess thats right. It should mean that it should guarante a turn of prep for Yugi, since he cannot attack on the first turn either, but could attempt to kill the opponent with effects or set up trap cards.
 
Destiny draw was Yugi specifically manipulating probability, if they mention destiny draw for Yugi again, then it would be in character and it would have to be significantly often. What other people do downstairs matter here.

Oh yeah, he can use Spells and monster effects still
 
Understood, i will investigate a bit about it.

Dont add Probability Manipulation for now.


And, im glad that has beed sorted out.

Should we close this thread or is there more to discuss?
 
I'm not arguing he doesn't have probability manipulation. I'm arguing he doesn't use it often in character.

I would post the added hax for everyone to see first personally.
 
Given the context, seems to be a possibility in desperate world ending situations, though even then it's a bit iffy
 
Unless you consider Exodia in episode 1 a extreme case of good luck via friendship, i agree it should be used on fights that would end on the end of the world or against "evil" opponents.
 
I thought that was skill and luck, Espically since Yugi never stated he changed probability

Though now that you mention it, friendship is rather noctoriously for doing stuff like that lol
 
In conclusion, Based on his deck, Yugi has...Body Manipulation, Power Nullification, Time Manipulation, Mind Control, Space Manipulation, One Hit Kill (General, and a special one against Rock and Fiend Monsters) , Power Mimicry, Summoning, Stat Amplification and Stat Reduction, Invulnerability, Energy Projection, Portal Creation, Summoning, Transmutation, Status Effect Inducement, Soul Manipulation, Magic Null, Fusionism null, BFR, Illusion Creation, Resurrection, Electric Manipulation, Attack Reflection, Light Manipulation,Durability Negation, Absorbtion, Duplication, Trap Null, Fire Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Resistance to undivine magic, Fusionism , Weapon summoning, and Durability Negation.


All of the reasoning behind these abilities is on...

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:RapidMotorcycle19/Yu-Gi-Oh!_Card_Effects_as_Hax.
 
There's other stuff I wanted to go over, but I'm a bit lazy to do all that extra work right now, so....

The way the Egyptian Gods work with their mechanical resistances/immunities is... strange. IIRC, spells are often treated as only affecting them for 1 turn, if they work on them at all. Supposedly.

During Strings vs Yugi, Strings activates Nightmare's Steelcage 1 turn before he summons Slifer. Since it lasts 2 of the opponent's turns, NSC was present when Slifer was summoned. Dialogue might be worth checking here, as Yugi also had Buster Blader out at the time, who had just barely higher attack, but.... Although it is notable that NSC prevents Slifer's second mouth firing on Kuriboh, as the anime treats it as a "special attack".

So apparently a Spell Card CAN prevent a God from attacking, as Slifer couldn't use its Special Attack, its Second Mouth, while NSC was out.

Original dialogue should be checked to see the stance on Brain Control. Ex: If Strings taunted Yugi about how BC may not work on Slifer before Yugi revealed he was targeting Revival Jam instead.


Monster Reborn often seems to work on Egyptian Gods, but supposedly only lasts 1 turn on them.

Notably, in Yugi vs Kaiba, the Gods' immunities seem to get ignored a little:

Command Silencer is used to make Slifer unable to hear Yugi's commands, thus, making it unable to attack.

Also from that duel, Necromancy, which has an effect where if 1 of the monsters it revived for your opponent gets destroyed, their other monsters lose 600 ATK each time 1 of the Necromancy'd monsters gets destroyed. Thus, Obelisk lost 2,400 ATK to this Spell, but regained it at the end of the turn. Necromancy's ATK change effect has never been shown to work for 1 turn, however, even when not used on a God.

Sword of Soul, upon being destroyed, is able to use its effect on Obelisk to give it more ATK. So much for being immune to other monsters' effects?

We also have Yugi vs Bakura; the Ghost of Dark Sanctuary is treated as an Equip Card, since it's able to be removed through Collected Power & Exile of the Wicked. Equip Cards are typically spells, & it originates from a Field Spell, but it's also possible for Traps to be equipped to stuff. Not sure how common that is in the anime, though.

What matters is that Slifer is apparently immune to this "The Ghost of Dark Sanctuary" equip thing.

Dialogue would need to be checked, but it may also have shown trap immunity. Bakura had been using his re-usable (Flips itself face-down after activation) Dark Spirit of the Silent Trap all duel. He doesn't bother using it against Slifer... but then again, its effect is to Negate 1 attack & force a different monster to attack. With Slifer as Yugi's lone monster & being immune to TGoDS, there would be no point to using it there.

Trap Immunity seems to be a little more clear cut. Obelisk punches through Mirror Force... but then we get the absurdity of Ishizu vs Kaiba. Ishizu should be knowledgeable on Obelisk, since she knows a good bit about the Gods & held Obelisk in safekeeping, & expected it returned.

But her whole strategy hinges on Blast Held by a Tribute, a TRAP card. Also called Sacrifice's Blast . Its remarkably ridiculous in how it works in the anime, too, IMHO:

With BHbaT/SB, you plant a bomb in a monster, so that if something Tribute Summoned using your target attacks, you activate this, & the attacker, gets destroyed & its ATK is dealt as damage to the player.

Yes. Anime Sacrifice's Blast is a card where to plant the bomb, you have to do it while the card is face-down, WITHOUT turning it face-up, and WITHOUT telling your opponent your target. Only when the tribute summoned attacker attacks do you flip it up.

Either way, Ishizu of all people planning to beat Kaiba by using this to plant a bomb in Obelisk to destroy it & him puts the trap immunity into question. That said, we never see the results of this attempt because Kaiba decides to summon BEWD instead, defying her Precognition.

The trap immunity is also called into question by Metal Reflect Slime. Despite being a Trap (Which turns into a Monster), it manages to copy Obelisk's appearance. But this has no presence on game mechanics, which would suggest it's just the anime's game not only following GMs.

Arguably, there's also Magnet Force; In Yugi vs Atem, Yugi uses it so that every time Slifer's Second Mouth Special Attack triggers against one of his Magnet Warriors, he can have it be redirected. In this case, to other Gods.

So Slifer's "Special Attack" can be redirected, according to that.

Lastly, the "Spell Cards only last on them for 1 turn" bit is called into question by Gurimo using Obelisk with the Seal of Orichalcos; The Field Spell's ATK increase sticks to Obelisk, as does the Orichalcos's effects. But supposedly, their types of magic don't mix & the anime claimed the Orichalcos's magic was older & stronger or such, IIRC.

Hope this helps & that I ain't bothering you too much.
 
To be fair, The god's ATTACKS and other stuff have been negated multiple times, like Infinite obelisk vs Marik where Obelisk's attack was negated by having less stars than Ra.

So, a more accurate resistance would be "canmot be killed by unholy magic, but, as shown by kaiba vs diva, tjey have a resistance against monster efffects.)
 
There may be some reason to question their immunity to being gotten rid of via Magic.

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Ragnarok What this does might need some double checking. If anyone can translate the Japanese card text, that'd be good; This doesn't have an IRL card counterpart, so if we wanna follow game mechanics, that info is good to be sure on.

Anyway, according to its Card Appearances page & the YGO Wiki's episode summary, it removed from play, but assuming the YGO Wiki translated the text correctly, it was a Destroy effect. As for what happened when Ragnarok was used, IIRC, Yugi banished all his monsters except those on his field, and all of them -Slifer & Obelisk- restrained & defeated Ra.

Apparently, beating Ra with it also got rid of a lot of Yami Marik's body, since he was fused with Ra at the time.


As for DSOD, it being canon to the manga aside, I'm a bit confused: What do you mean, about Obelisk having a resistance to monster effects there? From what I've read, Obelisk's role was it got summoned, had 2 sacrifices to hit Aigami/Diva for 4000, & killed Buster Gundil.

There IS Cubic Mandala but there's 2 problems with using that as a basis for Obelisk having resistance to monster effects: 1. It's a Trap Card. 2. If I recall my IRL Yugioh card game rules correctly, it's legal to activate an effect that would be negated, & you still do pay the cost. In this case, it'd be Obelisk's sacrifice of 2 monsters. Costs are paid before effects begin getting resolved, and Cubic Mandala only negates effects so long as its controller's opponent controls monsters summoned via Cubic Mandala.

Or to simplify matter #2, Cubic Mandala's negating effect wouldn't be present for Obelisk to resist during the time it's using its "sacrifice to deal damage" effect, since all the monsters it needs to do the negation are no longer present.
 
Ragnarok is a OHK, but it would literally kill all of Yugi's AP upon activation.

And since Marik is stil technically a duelist, dedtroying Ra wouldnt really mean dedtroying Yami marik' soul, only weaken it a lot, which is what allowed good marik to take over once again.

---

https://youtu.be/Jz6kWcm3lmE 9"42.

Since Obelisk is a god, its effects cannot be negated. This is consistent with his card appearance, since it states that nothing can be activated when it is summoned.
 
Do you have the subbed, Japanese version for that scene?

"By destroying all of my monsters, you take damage equal to Obelisk's attack points." Obelisk has almost always used tributing for this style of effect. This sounds like a dub based inconsistency.

Also, even if we assume DSOD Obelisk has the same abilities as the movie's promotional TCG cards, the "can't activate stuff when it's summoned" is not for the entirety of the turn, nor does it block passive/"Continuous" abilities. Activation =/= Effect in YGO game mechanics.

Being that Cubic Mandala's effect is Continuous, Obelisk's prevention of activations wouldn't stop it as long as the conditions are met, even if it did apply at that time, & not just on Summon as Obelisk did. And in this case, Cubic Mandala ceased to be trying to negate Obelisk when the ability was activated, because the cost being paid made the conditions to negate no longer present.

Aigami/Diva thinking Obelisk can't use the ability seems like a bit of misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the card effects, IMHO.

As for Marik, his soul was fused with Ra when he got with Ragnarok. He was still in-tact -as a mere eye- but he seemed a lot less capable. Yugi losing part of his soul via that duel's LP loss was painful to him. I would assume that what happened to him there was damaging to his soul & weakening as a result, but that may be a debate for later.
 
Thing is, all three gods have 'special abilities" or hidden effects that can be used if the dueslist knows about them. One obvious example is infinite obelisk.
 
That would be attack redirection (homing attack) rather than durability negation, as it doesn't kill the monsters in the process
 
The monsters blocl the duelist of any damage on reaction (and game mechanics.)

But yeah, somewhat, since if yugi fights i dunno, Alice from touhou and she summons her doll thingies, Obelisk would just phase thru them.
 
I don't doubt him having Probability Manipulation -he's demonstrated it other times throughout the series- but I might question that instance of it as a feat for a few reasons.

1. Original Japanese dialogue should be checked to check the nature of it; IIRC, he had a vision of each of his friends giving him a card, which was what he drew with Card of Sanctity; Yugi's friends have been able to have supernatural powers, as seen near the end of Yugi vs Pegasus, where they blocked Pegasus reading Yugi's mind with his Millennium Eye. This could be a similar case of "friendship power", IMHO, hence my recommendation of dialogue checking.

2. It happened within the Virtual World, which was virtual, which had everyone's minds inside it. Not real cards, & not quite the same type of probability to manipulate. It may be more questionable if the characters were shown to have any ability to manipulate the Virtual World themselves. I don't recall this, but it may be worth checking.

If we do accept that instance, it definitely seems like a power he can use when he's in at least of these conditions: Being in a desperate situations &/or having the "friendship power" of his friends, IMHO.

It would arguably be notable that he did that in the Virtual World, though, since it was only Yugi's mind there; Not his body & arguably not his clothes & Millennium Puzzle. Noah also has control of the VW; But I don't think Noah's control is as relevant to this feat, it doesn't seem to be passive, plus, he doesn't seem to ever manipulate anyone's draws anyway.
 
There are some instances where power of friendship is indeed a big factor when facing enemies.


For example, Yugi vs Pegasus has their friends block Pegasus's millenium eye and power of friendship also made the gods powerful enough to face levaithan.
 
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