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Promestein

Resurrection Lily
She/Her
VS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Retired VSB Bureaucrat
8,678
5,554
Just read through Worm in about four days. Have a lot of revisions here, so let's get this all out of the way.

Scion
Continent level Scion is fine. He destroys two continents in quick succession, blows up the United Kingdom in one shot, easily destroys the East Coast, etcetera. I dunno where Planet level comes from, though; I'd say base Scion is just 6-A.

Scion's Striking Strength should be Continent Class; he tore Behemoth in half, and I'll get to the Endbringers later. His speed is fine.

Durability wise, though... Scion is a mess. He's injured by Legend, Alexandria, Eidolon, and Glaistig Uaine (to varying but not severe extents), and then tanks String Theory's G-Driver, which is stronger than the F-Driver, which she states could knock the Moon out of orbit. I think this is a pretty distinct possibility, she's a good Tinker.

So, Scion should have Unknown durability given these inconsistencies (he's hurt by others, too, just not much), with it being noted that, thanks to his adaptation and Regenerationn, it's hard to cause any lasting harm. I don't know what his Regenerationn should be, though; it shouldn't be Low-Godly, since he regenerates by replacing his mass with mass from his true body.

He also needs some resistances; resistance to Precognition (Contessa and Dinah can't really see his actions clearly, partly due to his own Path of Victory) and Time Manipulation (He casually breaks out of Gray Boy's time loop), and probably others. He also oneshot Siberian, for what it's worth.

True Scion is fine at High 4-C. No complaints.

Endbringers
Leviathan should be At least Large Building level, likely far higher. Alexandria may put up a fight against him but, as stated, the Endbringers are holding back and he almost always wins the fights anyways. Behemoth is fine at Small City level, and their speed is also fine.

The issue here is their durability, and the ******* WoG statements. We've been getting pretty strict about WoG statements, so I don't think it's reasonable to accept a statement from a WhoWouldWin thread with the Endbringers fighting the Justice League. Wildbow is in the versus debating community and often participates in versus debates with his characters; I don't think his word in these threads is very reasonable, since it involves things like Behemoth being able to control all of the energy in the sun. Nothing like that is supported in the work. It shouldn't be on his page.

Their durability has a similar issue, with that being Multi-Solar System level durability because reaching their core is like digging through a galaxy. To put it bluntly, no. Scion carves through them with Continental attacks and kills them; he meets resistance, but he kills them. And Wildbow has stated that String Theory's tech is a huge threat to them and that an attack strong enough to wipe out a planetary surface would kill an Endbringer. So the durability of their inner layers should be Continental; this is also supported by Behemoth surviving Phir Se's blast, which he implied could destroy all of India. Multi-Solar System level is an outlier and also comes from the same WhoWouldWin thread. You see the issue here?

Wall levels
A lot of characters are affected by this, so I'll keep this broad.

During the Slaughterhouse Nine Thousand arc, one of the Mannequins takes a shot from one of Kid Win's guns, which just glances off of his outer shell. The same gun disintegrated a vending machine. I think it's safe to lowball this as Small Building level, which applies to basically everyone who isn't an Endbringer, comparable, or above, or not a front line fighter, given that Bastard ragdolls the original Mannequin and another one gets crushed in another dog's jaws.

Out of our pages, this applies to Armsmaster, Butcher XIV, and probably Victoria. It applies to a whole lot of others too, but they don't have pages yet.

Street levels
Taylor should probably not be Athlete level and Contessa should definitely not be. Her AP description is pretty clearly a Street level AP description at the least, and she should stay at Street level and Peak Human thanks to her abilities.

WoG in general
Wildbow's WoG is often unreasonable and unreliable, with statements such as carving through an Endbringer being like digging through a spiral galaxy, Behemoth being able to manipulate all the energy of the sun, and so on, all pulled out of his ass in versus threads so that his characters win, essentially.

Not all of his WoG is bullshit, but a lot of it is unsubstantiated; so much of it just elaborates or specifies stuff, which is kinda necessary given the complicated mechanics of the verse and how many characters there are with unusual abilities.

We just have to apply the same critical reasoning to his WoG as we would any other.
 
Yeah, I noted that.
 
He is also able to ignore durability by directly targeting the internal body and disintegrating it, which doesn't seem to be in his profile.

Worm profiles are really damn old, at that.
 
Yeah, they are.
 
Contessa is also missing a lot of abilities, which is surprising considering she is the most well known character the series has.

Verse could definitely use a good rework. It's been a while since I last read it, though.
 
What's she missing, Kep? I dunno what it could be, she's pretty straightforward. Her being able to beat Fate Manipulators, now that I saw that, seems kinda wanked.

I wanna rewrite everything. It's all fresh in my mind.
 
Oh, yeah, but he basically said on his own that a surface-busting attack could kill an Endbringer. It comes from a Saitama debate but that's what he was talking about specifically.
 
Well, Scion is surface-busting more or less and he can kill the Endbringers with effort, and a moon-level weapon would kill them. So it matches out, we don't need WoG to prove.
 
She has resistance to mind hax and emphatic manip, has claimed that Precognition doesn't work on her, and there is also combat applicable Teleportation via the portals if you believe Wildbow (and even if you don't, she has done it outside of combat at least).

Might have some other stuff that I don't remember now.
 
Does she? She couldn't risk going up against Jack because he could've manipulated her. Precog not working on her could just be because she's already accounted for it in her own precog. It's weird.

Those are Doormaker's portals, aren't they?
 
@Prom

Contessa beating a Fate Manipulator isn't unlikely, considering she has beat two guys with Reality and Probability Manip before.
 
@Prom

Jack's power is more of an ability to induce feelings upon others that work against them, but Contessa managed to counter having her memory erased while it was actively happening and found a way not to make it work, IIRC.

Yep.
 
Huh. When was that? That's pretty damn impressive, don't think that happened in the main Worm storyline. I don't think that's so much resistance though as just... finding how to stop it.
 
https://parahumans.wordpress.com/2013/10/12/interlude-29/

"Hush," he said, in their language. "The monstrous ones are out there."

She nodded, still delirious, lost in the magnitude of what she had seen.

The memories were already slipping away, like sand through her fingers.

Have to remember, she told herself.

The answer snapped into place. A way to remember.

Nine steps, and she could do it. Step one was to avoid thinking of the memories. The moment she acknowledged it, she found herself slipping into a different mindset.

"She is touched," another man said. One of her uncle's friends.

She could dimly recall something happening to her parents. A cataclysmic event.

Except she couldn't allow herself to start remembering.

"She hasn't changed," her uncle said.

"We both saw the phantom, the night-thing, leap out at her."

She needed to dream. The next steps would achieve that.

Step two, standing up.

Step three, a jab of her hand at her uncle's elbow, to stop him from grabbing her.

Step four, a little push of her foot against the ground, to keep her ankle out of reach of the friend's clutching hand.

Step five, grabbing the medicine bag from behind her uncle.

Opening it was step six. Walking to the bench was seven.

Her uncle was only getting to his feet now. Every action was mechanical, spelled out by this surety in her mind's eye, helped along by a complete, exacting knowledge of how and where to move every body part.

Seven involved uncorking the right bottles. Eight involved obtaining a specific amount of powder, moving her hand in a careful, precise way, so the exact right amount piled up in her cupped palm. She dashed it into a half-full mug and drank, just as her uncle reached her, putting his hands on her shoulders, shaking her.

Step nine was to wait for sleep to reach her. She only needed to dream, and she would be able to escape the forgetting.

Yeah, in hindsight that probably was just stopping it.
 
Wow, I forgot about the specifics of that.

But yeah.
 
Was also thinking that Fenja and Menja and whoever scaled to them (Kaiser and Lung come to mind) could be Building level. They can become three stories tall.
 
Large Building level, like they are now.
 
Yeah, they fought Leviathan like that (and did a decent job), and fought Lung like that.
 
Doesn't Leviathan scale to a girl who lifted a 2,000,000 ton collapsing building?

Although that would only be Lifting Strength due to the revisions.
 
Yes. He's stronger than Alexandria.

Well, then what would the tier be for them? Could just go with Building level through scaling to Lung and Fenja/Menja, if we're gonna go with that.
 
That seems dumb af, you can totally get AP from Lifting if there's nothing better. See God of War and any setting with Atlas for that measure.
 
The new rules are that it can only be applied if the person does it for an extremely long time without showing effort or if they can throw what their lift over their heads. I think the 1st one is why no Atlases have been downgraded yet, but I don't remember all that well.
 
The thing about Scion's low-godly is that his true body that restores the mass exists in another universe. Which could kinda be a disembodied consciousness? It's disembodied at least
 
That'd be Type 9, High regen I guess.

What do you think about the rest?
 
Alright, type 9 then.

Resistanes are fine, durability is fine.

Hey wasn't there a 3-A outlier or something about the entitities blowing up more planets than there were atoms in the universe?

The thing about Alexandria's lifting strength is that she didn't just lift the 2000000 tons, she caught it as it collapsed on her. The High 8-C comes from the KE it would have had from falling 1m before she caught it, so it scales to her durability, which means it scales to Leviathan because he can hurt her. I don't remember if Leviathan outright scales to anyone back due to the weird thing with Endbringer durability.
 
Leviathan definitely doesn't scale back to anyone. High 8-C is fine with me.
 
Also I think it scales to her AP because in order to stop it falling she would have had to push back with the same force.
 
Oh, another thing.

Legend and Eidolon catch up with Khonsu fairly quickly after he teleports from Japan to Cape Verde.
 
Also, I don't remember him one-shotting Siberian. I remember them standing in each other and Siberian's overlap destroying him as fast as he could regenerate for a while.
 
Promestein said:
Oh, another thing.
Legend and Eidolon catch up with Khonsu fairly quickly after he teleports from Japan to Cape Verde.
I think this was calc'd to Alexandria's flight speed? They scale maybe
 
They should scale.

For the Siberian thing;

The Siberian appeared beside us in the same instant. Manton spoke, "He finally took action and struck my Siberian."
 
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