World of Warcraft: Mists of Always being Revised

[Udlmaster]

For a long while now, the Warcraft profiles have been fairly awful in standard, and I think it's time we sorted out them out. So, this will be my proposal to the many profiles, along with some calcs done by Bambu on the side that will help us set a good base.

The Old Gods & their Minions:​

I'll use N'zoth as the example, but since he's the weakest of the Old Gods, this should apply to the others too.

Attack Potency: At least Planet level (Massively superior to the likes of Deathwing and the Titan-Forged. Engaged in a long war against the other Old Gods, particularly C'Thun and Yogg-Saron. More powerful than G'huun who threatens to rupture Azeroth like a giant boil.The death of an Old God would destroy the Planet. Directly stated to be capable of destroying the Planet.) | Universe+ level (Created Nyalotha, a realm overlapping the main Universe. N'zoth was destroying the boundaries between Ny'alotha and the Main Universe to impose a Future where he wins, doing this would erase all that once was. Stated that he could fight "what was to come". Fought the Heroes of Azeroth, who destroyed Ny'alotha)

For Deathwing, I don't have any problems believing that the Madness of Deathwing is a Planet level threat, considering he fights post-C'thun, post-Yogg-Saron, post-Kil'jaeden Adventurers and is specifically vastly empowered above his previous forms.

The Heroes of Azeroth:​

Attack Potency: Large Country level (Fought and defeated the Masters of Blackrock Mountain, Ragnaros the Firelord and Nelfarian, and the Lord of Naxxramas, Kel'thuzad), possibly Planet level (Fought and defeated the Avatar of C'thun) | Planet level (Fought and defeated Kil'jaeden & Archimonde) | At least Planet level (Defeated the Avatar of Yogg-Saron & the Lich King) | At least Planet level (Defeated Deathwing) | At least Planet level, possibly Multi-Solar System level (Defeated the Sha of Fear and Heart of Y'shaarj Garrosh Hellscream) | At least Planet level, possibly Multi-Solar System level (Defeated a more powerful Archimonde) | High Universe level, possibly Universe+ level at their peak (Using the powers of the Artifacts, fought and defeated Argus the Unmaker, who threatened to destroy Creation) | Universe+ level (While empowered by the Heart of Azeroth, fought and defeated True form N'zoth and destroyed Ny'arlotha, an Alternate Reality existing alongside the Universe.) | At least Planet level, possibly Universe+ level (Significantly weaker than before without the Heart of Azeroth, however, remains a threat to beyond Titan level beings like the Jailer and Sire Denathrius)

Council of Death:​

I'll use the Arbiter here, but similar reasonings apply to the Council of Death members:

Attack Potency: At least Universe+ level (Is the Supreme Authority of the Shadowlands and therefore should make her superior to the other members of the Council of Death, who are stated to be on par with the Titans.)

Titans:​

Obviously, vastly above full power Old Gods.

Other ratings can be discussed below one the fine tuning is done.

 

[Greatsage13th]

This totally I agree

 

[Hellbeast]

Warcraft is wild

 

[Dragonstitch]

Overall this seems good. though I question scaling to Argus since the Heroes of Azeroth not only needed help from the other titans but when he used his universe destroying attack it one shots them.

 

[Udlmaster]

Overall this seems good. though I question scaling to Argus since the Heroes of Azeroth not only needed help from the other titans but when he used his universe destroying attack it one shots them.

It’s likely to be a similar problem with why Goku doesn’t want the Planet destroyed.

Whatever is left likely killed them if not the attack.

Considering that he could do that, he has the energy to out-put that much power, and he was severely weakened due to being used as a battery for the Legion and being tortured and born pre-maturely.

considering we go on to kill Titan level threats like Sire D without power boosts, it’s not too surprising.

Basically saying, the Heroes should scale.

 

[Dragonstitch]

Alright that makes sense. I agree with everything then.

 

[Shmooply]

by uthers beard how in the **** did i not see this thread
Anyway, yea, after reading through this, the changes look fine and dandy.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

I agree with everything.

 

[ZetaMarishi]

Makes enough sense to me, I suppose. Have at thee, I agree.

 

[Udlmaster]

Also, I recommend the Elemental Lords be upgraded to 5-B (when at Full power, Weakened Elemental Lords like Vanilla Ragnaros would stay at High 6-B) once more for the reasons I'm about to state:

Firstly, they're the culmination of the entire Planet, not just portions of it, like "Elemental of the Lake".

Azshara considered Neptulon the only thing in her way of her total control of the Oceans, with Neptulon being able to keep her out of his domain entirely.

We fight the full fight of 2 Elemental Lords during Cataclysm, with them being a serious threat to the Heroes of Azeroth at that time, which are post Kj, Post C'thun, Post Lich King etc. who are all Planet level threats.

We also know that they fought against 1 or multiple Titan Keepers, who have anywhere from Planet to Large Star level scaling.

 

[M2B3]

The quality of Warcraft profiles has indeed plummeted, with many old profiles receiving numerous changes without a content revision thread to justify any of them. Worse still, most of these new additions have terrible reasoning backing them up. It's an issue that I'm currently working to rectify. This thread doesn't really focus on that, instead opting to talk about some of the, largely, more recent stuff that have happened in lore, which are certainly worth discussing in their own right. That said, I do have a whole bunch of issues with what's being said here:

More powerful than G'huun who threatens to rupture Azeroth like a giant boil.

This statement has been given context that isn't actually there. The quote in question is neutral. G'huun isn't taking responsibility for any potential destruction of the world. He is merely stating that his corruption will spread across the universe in the case of the planet's destruction.

Remember, this is the same expansion whose focal point is trying to heal the world from the moon-sized sword that was plunged into it which threatened the world with "terminal failure," something that MOTHER had earlier described as "total planetary annihilation."

The death of an Old God would destroy the Planet.

Considering that they've all died at this point in the story, no. The issue was that the Pantheon tried to pull them out like weeds, and that was causing irreparable damage to the planet's surface. Even then, pulling out one Old God isn't enough to destroy the planet, as seen with Y'shaarj.

Directly stated to be capable of destroying the Planet.

Are you linking the right interview or am I missing something? This one specifically states that they're not going to destroy the planet.


Universe+ Old Gods:

Created Nyalotha

No? At least not to my knowledge. By the looks of it, neither to Hazzikostas' either. In both the millenium interview and the content preview that you linked he called Ny'alotha the "domain of the Old Gods." Plural. Not that I've heard anyone attribute the creation of Ny'alotha to the Old Gods as a collective either.

a realm overlapping the main Universe. N'zoth was destroying the boundaries between Ny'alotha and the Main Universe to impose a Future where he wins,

While that is true, it should be noted that Ny'alotha is never shown to be anything more than an alternate version of the world of Azeroth as it looked like during the years of the Black Empire.

doing this would erase all that once was.

You've phrased this quote as "all that once was", but in the quest where this is taken from Wrathion says "all that we once were". The original statement made by Wrathion is a lot tamer in comparison and more clearly describes what's actually happening in the story. That is to say, N'zoth's attempt to bring about the return of the Black Empire as it was before the titans' arrival, when none of these characters, or any of their ancestors, existed.

In general these last two points of yours greatly misinterpret the scope of N'zoth's power. They make out the "Visions of N'zoth" to be an event that's universal in scope when in reality it is entirely localized to Azeroth's surface.

Fought the Heroes of Azeroth, who destroyed Ny'alotha

The Chamber of heart, powered by the Forge of Origination, destroyed Ny'alotha.


Heroes:

Fought and defeated the Masters of Blackrock Mountain, Ragnaros the Firelord and Nelfarian, and the Lord of Naxxramas, Kel'thuzad

Which is all fine and well, but I have no idea where the Large Country level comes from. There's no feat of that magnitude attributed to any of those guys.

possibly Planet level (Fought and defeated the Avatar of C'thun)

It wasn't an Avatar. He is, however, stated to have been weakened by millennia of imprisonment. So there's no reason to assume that he was anywhere near his full power during that fight.

fought and defeated Archimonde

I would've thought that we've long since put this topic to rest. There's no "Planet level" Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden. Not cleanly at least. Neither did the players defeat Archimonde during TBC. He dies in the exact same manner that he does in W3, blown up by Nordrassil's enchantments.

defeated Kil'jaeden

Same thing for KJ. This is one of the few boss-fights which the Chronicle vol. 3 actually elaborates on (even if just a little bit) and they outright state that the players were doing next to nothing to him. And they were being babysat by Kalecgos and the Blue Dragonflight during the fight at that. Only after Anveena sacrifices herself do they manage to finally nudge KJ over the edge and push him back into the Twisting Nether. And even then, at the end of the fight you can see that Kil'Jaeden himself doesn't appear to be particularly harmed by anything that has just transpired.

In all honesty, it would be best if these two characters were revisited and had a more "varied" approach of scaling applied to them that addresses both their lower and higher-end magical and physical feats. But this thread really isn't the place for that so I'll leave it for another time.

Defeated the Avatar of Yogg-Saron

Also not an avatar. He does have an avatar with him during the fight though, Sara. This time however, the Old God wasn't even released from his prison. So, if anything, he was even more weakened than C'thun was. Also, the heroes were joined by several titanforged keepers that had been freed from Yogg's grasp during the assault on Ulduar.

Defeated the Lich King

They did, they did. I mean, they kind of did. He was trolling during most of the fight, but this is probably the closest thing to a proper victory for the players (aside from the vanilla bosses) from what's listed in this CRT.

Defeated Deathwing

The first fight was spent fighting individual droplets of Deathwing's blood and making him blow himself up over and over. The second encounter was babysat by the Dragon Aspects in its' entirety. Really it was the Dragon Soul that did all the heavy lifting throughout both encounters.

All in all, it's more accurate to say that the heroes "defeated Deathwing's bodily fluids" than it is that they took the shiny Lizardon himself down.

Defeated the Sha of Fear and Heart of Y'shaarj Garrosh Hellscream

The Dread Expanse is never stated to be a parallel dimension, alternate reality or pocket dimension. It is only ever described as a "watery wasteland." Even if it was a parallel dimension the Sha of Fear is only credited with "creating this watery wasteland" and nothing more. Considering that half the fight is spent teleporting around the Terrace of Endless Spring it is entirely plausible that the Sha simply teleports you to the middle of some ocean where it has made its' lair.

Defeated a more powerful Archimonde

It was the same Archimonde.

defeated Argus the Unmaker, who threatened to destroy Creation

While being babysat by the entire Pantheon. The heroes are empowered by different titans throughout the entire fight. And the "creation"-ending spell that Argus uses is a raid-wiping one shot on the players.

fought and defeated True form N'zoth and destroyed Ny'arlotha

Which is true, but as I said, when I was covering N'zoth himself, Ny'alotha isn't universal in size and it wasn't really the heroes that destroyed it. Also, they never got slapped by one of the big tentacles that you can see outside lol


Death guys:

Is the Supreme Authority of the Shadowlands and therefore should make her superior to the other members of the Council of Death, who are stated to be on par with the Titans.

First part of that sentence is probably true and Morgan Day did indeed say that they are on par with the titans... buuut pretty much everything that has happened in lore since Shadowlands actually released contradicts that statement. The Eternal Ones have been getting mogged left and right by everything that moves. The heroes, the goons of other Eternal Ones, their own goons, Anduin (LMFAO). Hell, the Primus practically gets stalemated by Helya. These guys are not equal to the titans by any measurable metric. Also, about that statement that says they are titan and titan level+? Yeah, that was made all the way back in Shadowlands pre-alpha by a boss encounter designer. It should be taken with a grain of salt.


TLDR:

Planet level Old Gods is fine, if for nothing else than Deathwing's Final cataclysm which is stated to "split the world in half" by Kalec. That's supported by Nozdormu as well (who is a pretty credible source considering that he is probably looking right at it by peering into the future.)

Universe+ level Old Gods is taken out of context.

"The Heroes of Azeroth" are weird. Most of the feats that you're attributing to them had a ton of outside help provided from this guy or that guy. Also, I'm not even sure if a profile like that is appropriate. A gank group of twelve (or more for the most part) different characters, I mean. Do we do that on VSBW? I can't remember seeing a lot of profiles like that. Only the Ultimate Gods come to mind, but I imagine it's only because most of them are unnamed. In my opinion, each class should have its' own profile and be rated individually on what they themselves have managed to accomplish.

As for the Eternal Ones... ehm, I don't know. Maybe Blizzard will come out with some sort of explanation in the future as to why they appear to be so weak and really put them on the Pantheon's level in some manner. But right now? They just look like total wimps.

 

[Udlmaster]

This statement has been given context that isn't actually there. The quote in question is neutral. G'huun isn't taking responsibility for any potential destruction of the world. He is merely stating that his corruption will spread across the universe in the case of the planet's destruction.

Although, much weaker beings than G'huun at that time are known to be Planet Busters or above.

Remember, this is the same expansion whose focal point is trying to heal the world from the moon-sized sword that was plunged into it

From a being far superior to Moon level though.

Considering that they've all died at this point in the story, no.

They haven't died. Even N'zoth who is as close to being killed as possible isn't dead. Blizzard specifically went against this notion.

"While the Light can only conceive of one true path, the Void sees endless possibilities. Strategically, the Old Gods always have plans within plans, waiting for one door to close so another can open. To believe there can only be a single outcome to the struggle against N'Zoth would be to ignore the lessons he was trying to teach us."

Are you linking the right interview or am I missing something? This one specifically states that they're not going to destroy the planet.

It directly says he's capable, just that he won't.

Q: Why doesn't N'zoth just blow up the Planet

A: He wants to mind rape people instead.

The statement "He's not going to destroy the Planet" is completely different from "He can't"

No? At least not to my knowledge. By the looks of it, neither to Hazzikostas' either. In both the millenium interview and the content preview that you linked he called Ny'alotha the "domain of the Old Gods." Plural. Not that I've heard anyone attribute the creation of Ny'alotha to the Old Gods as a collective either.

Ny'alotha is constantly stated to be N'zoth's dream throughout the story.

Ra-den says: Save our world, champion. No matter the cost.
Magni Bronzebeard says: He's... gone.
Wrathion says: If Ra-den has been pulled into Ny'alotha--N'Zoth's "vision made real"--then I do not envy his fate.

Magni Bronzebeard says: Was that N'Zoth's doin'? I've never seen anythin' like it!
Wrathion says: It was his vision of the future made manifest. An echo of the Black Empire.
Wrathion says: Well, I did say leave the problem of Ny'alotha to me. I suppose now is as good a time as any.

As despair and madness consume the land, the heroes of the Horde and the Alliance will need to fight for their sanity—and the fate of their wounded world. Delve further into the future that the Old God N’Zoth envisions for Azeroth and gird your mind against his maddening Assaults and Horrific Visions.

While that is true, it should be noted that Ny'alotha is never shown to be anything more than an alternate version of the world of Azeroth as it looked like during the years of the Black Empire.

While in the Realm, you constantly see Starry skies above. Considering it's supposed to be a Parallel Universe, I have no doubts it can be the size of the Universe.

The Chamber of heart, powered by the Forge of Origination, destroyed Ny'alotha.

Indeed, but for this argument to remove the Merit from the Heart of Azeroth Empowered Champions, you'd have the argue that the Forge of Origination is = or > than both Base BFA Champion + the Powers from the Heart of Azeroth, which is empowered by a Titan.

So, unless Forge of Origination now capable of beating Titan level threats, this doesn't mean much besides it was required for removing N'zoth without destroying the planet, which was the plan for it being used in the first place.

hich is all fine and well, but I have no idea where the Large Country level comes from. There's no feat of that magnitude attributed to any of those guys.

Bambu has done several calculations on it, and Large Country level seems to be the basis for many of Warcraft's higher tiers.

It wasn't an Avatar. He is, however, stated to have been weakened by millennia of imprisonment. So there's no reason to assume that he was anywhere near his full power during that fight.

It wasn't unleashed C'thun however either. I use "Avatar" in this case to mean that it's a fragment of C'thun, rather than his totality.

There's no "Planet level" Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden.

But there is though, not only are there statements saying that High ranking Eredars can destroy planets by themselves, which was brought up and discussed multiple times already but they at full power scale to this level and above anyway.

He dies in the exact same manner that he does in W3

The Caverns of Time event isn't non-canon. I have no idea where you got this idea from. In story, it's a closed event made by the Bronze Dragons.

It's a "time pocket" if you will. There's no intended link to the Infinite Dragonflight or their dastardly deeds of altered timeways, and you're not literally interacting with history. It's simply a way for players to experience some of the larger moments in Warcraft history, and admittedly the Mount Hyjal instance isn't really linked to the world for any rhyme or reason.

and they outright state that the players were doing next to nothing to him.

"Next to nothing" and "having little effect" are two different statements. Obviously, we know that KJ's true power is beyond being stuck in the Sunwell asking for Step-Bro Archimonde for help.

Also, the heroes were joined by several titanforged keepers that had been freed from Yogg's grasp during the assault on Ulduar.

Not necessarily, the Chronicles just say that the Horde and Alliance fought him, and "just as with C'thun defeated him", so the claim "Killed all the Old Gods" doesn't hold any weight when it only says we Defeated them, not slain or killed them.

They did, they did. I mean, they kind of did. He was trolling during most of the fight

He wasn't trolling, he was testing them to see if they could defeat him, and when he was satisfied, he was able to cheat kill them all.

The second encounter was babysat by the Dragon Aspects in its' entirety. Really it was the Dragon Soul that did all the heavy lifting throughout both encounters.

All in all, it's more accurate to say that the heroes "defeated Deathwing's bodily fluids" than it is that they took the shiny Lizardon himself down.

Not really, the Second encounter was mostly the Heroes v Deathwing with Thrall charging his Kamehameha like it's Dragon Ball throughout the fight.

And in Madness of Deathwing, he's specifically much stronger than before.

The Dread Expanse is never stated to be a parallel dimension, alternate reality or pocket dimension. It is only ever described as a "watery wasteland." Even if it was a parallel dimension the Sha of Fear is only credited with "creating this watery wasteland" and nothing more. Considering that half the fight is spent teleporting around the Terrace of Endless Spring it is entirely plausible that the Sha simply teleports you to the middle of some ocean where it has made its' lair.

That's just headcanon and I don't care to argue it.

Using Occam's razor, it's just a realm that he teleports the players to.

It was the same Archimonde.

He's literally stated to have more "tricks", so Magic, which would make him more powerful than before.

"There are a couple of nods to the old Battle of Mount Hyjal encounter (Doomfire was mandatory), but Archimonde has learned a number of nasty new tricks since then. Although you have the greatest heroes of Azeroth and Draenor standing beside you in this battle, even they cannot aid you within the Twisting Nether itself. . . ."

While being babysat by the entire Pantheon.

Not really, the Pantheon were nearly dead and could barely sit on Chairs, most of the Fight is just Argus v the Champions of Azeroth.

You'd literally have the make the argument "The Heroes of Azeroth get one shot every single moment until a Blessing occurs, then they can fight Argus and then immediately die when the blessing wares off."

That's totally absurd and makes no logical sense.

Also, they never got slapped by one of the big tentacles that you can see outside lol

I mean, Wrathion did, so unless you want to argue Wrathion is above the Heroes of Azeroth...

The Eternal Ones have been getting mogged left and right by everything that moves. The heroes

Well...yeah, obviously. Also, I thought the reason why they were like this was because of the Anima drought? I mean, this is Shadowlands lore anyway.

Anduin (LMFAO).

Imagine being the God of Valhalla and losing to a Priest in Plate Armor.

Hell, the Primus practically gets stalemated by Helya.

As far as I'm aware, the Jailer's Minions are supposed to be hugely empowered by all the Souls going to the Maw, all the Anima from Ravendreth and all the other weird stuff going on.

 

[Dragonstitch]

it is also clear that the jailor was in control of Anduin and is likely amping him while he attacks Kyrestia and if he in not amped it can easily be PiS.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'll intercede on a few parts here.

It ain't in my interest to debate much, just give my piece of mind.

5-B Legion god tiers was never put to rest. You simply disagreed with it. I've never been dissuaded from it. KJ and Archimonde being less than 5-B is silly, in my book. At least at full power.

I spoke with Udl over Discord and told him I disagree with scaling folks to Heroes of Azeroth. Generally speaking, scaling to PCs gets dicey for any game. This comes with some reconsiderations of course, but Tier 6 for most notable characters does seem inevitable. High 6-B depends on scaling chains, ones I'm not certain would be made, but lower Tier 6 feats exist for those I suspect to come out lower. Hell, at worst we have 7-A for almost assuredly everyone based on a relatively fodder character realistically being capable of destroying Thousand Needles.

 

[Ourosboros]

Following. I support the Old God's changes, not sure about the rest.

I would like to get some major lore characters feats' calced. Like Malfurion holding up the entire region of Darkshore for a long time while Azshara was trying to pull it down, or Thrall holding back that Tsunami, or those rumors where the Ashbringer could destroy entire armies of undead before even being unsheathed.

Medivh and Khadgar also have noteworthy feats I'm sure.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Destroying an army isn't worth much in regards to calcs. If you can get descriptors of the other feats, I'm fully happy to calculate them myself.

 

[Udlmaster]

BTW, we know of Pit Lords who have destroyed Planets in the past, let alone the Eredar and Eredar Lords

 

[Ourosboros]

Destroying an army isn't worth much in regards to calcs. If you can get descriptors of the other feats, I'm fully happy to calculate them myself.

Okay, will do.

Also, I didn't know where to put this and joke battles is dead, so here's a thread I made for a joke WoW profile for Patrick: https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-patbringer.118615/. Based on this video. If you want a fun time about some jokey wow-related stuff stop on by

 

[DaReaperMan]

Right, anyways I agree with this, we need to figure out how to calculate Illidan nuking Northrend to get the tiers for all of the current 7-Bs, there's a 7-A+ Anima calc if I recall, so KT would more then likely scale to that

 

[Hellbeast]

I also think Bambi did calcs on his old wiki which could have some stuff for us

 

[Mr. Bambu]

footnote: those calcs are years old and made when I was still learning how to actually do calcs. If you do want to use them, let me take a look-see first, to evaluate if I can actually stand by them now. Also something something standards change etc etc.

 

[Udlmaster]

Also something something standards change etc etc.

Times change

 

[DaReaperMan]

footnote: those calcs are years old and made when I was still learning how to actually do calcs. If you do want to use them, let me take a look-see first, to evaluate if I can actually stand by them now. Also something something standards change etc etc.

By the way can you post the Animus calc after you redo it?

 

[Hellbeast]

footnote: those calcs are years old and made when I was still learning how to actually do calcs. If you do want to use them, let me take a look-see first, to evaluate if I can actually stand by them now. Also something something standards change etc etc.

Good point, I’ll see if I can find any of the more recent ones and we can discuss them

 

[Mr. Bambu]

By the way can you post the Animus calc after you redo it?

The Animus calc isn't that old, in fact it might be the most recent of the WoW calcs. I don't believe it needs redone.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The Animus calc isn't that old, in fact it might be the most recent of the WoW calcs. I don't believe it needs redone.

Nice, can we see it? It would help me get my tier revisions fully underway

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It's in the Warcraft category on the wiki, I believe.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah, it is.

 

[Udlmaster]

It might become RPG only, since it uses RPG lore.

We could make certain exceptions to the Non-canon rule when it comes to talking about the Size of a Location, since that shouldn't interfere with any of the standing lore.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Right, anyways I agree with this, we need to figure out how to calculate Illidan nuking Northrend to get the tiers for all of the current 7-Bs, there's a 7-A+ Anima calc if I recall, so KT would more then likely scale to that

wasn't he able to do that with only the eye of sargeras?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah, it is.

Neat!

wasn't he able to do that with only the eye of sargeras?

Due to statements Arthas and LK directly scale to the feat, specifically Illidan believing it was the only way to beat them, and then fighting evenly with Arthas awhile later.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Neat!

Due to statements Arthas and LK directly scale to the feat, specifically Illidan believing it was the only way to beat them, and then fighting evenly with Arthas awhile later.

1.Lich King undoubtedly scales to this but Arthas probably doesn't at the time. At least prior to the lich king's weakening. Arthas does receive some form of Amp from the lich king as some kind of ditch effort to defeat illidan which i suppose allows him to be comparable at the very least.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Then they downscale, they are still whatever tier Illidan nuking Northrend gets unless it's near baseline

 

[Shmooply]

but Arthas probably doesn't at the time

Good thing Arthas doesn't have a key for when he was a paladin...
Wait, he actually doesn't have a key for that.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Good thing Arthas doesn't have a key for when he was a paladin...
Wait, he actually doesn't have a key for that.

He will. And he will probably scale to the 7-A instead of Illidan of all people. That is DK Arthas.

 

[Greatsage13th]

He will. And he will probably scale to the 7-A instead of Illidan of all people. That is DK Arthas.

yep

 

[Greatsage13th]

Then they downscale, they are still whatever tier Illidan nuking Northrend gets unless it's near baseline

agreed.

also should Thrall's tier be much higher? as he did at one time damaged Archimonde.

 

[DaReaperMan]

also should Thrall's tier be much higher? as he did at one time damaged Archimonde.

Even if he did damage Archimonde(he didn't from memory) it would be an outlier because Archimonde has better scaling/feats then Deathwing, who Thrall in his strongest state needed the Dragon Soul to do anything to.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also this isn't mentioning that Archimonde might be 5-B post-revisions, the Burning Legion have a LOT of 5-B feats

 

[Shmooply]

Speaking of Green Jesus, can we slap a "higher with Environmental Destruction/Storm Creation" on his profile? Since he's one of the best shamans in-lore, and he has managed to create some serious storms IIRC. I'll look for scans when I can.