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Wiz vs Gilgamesh

Kisaragi_Megumi

Kisaragi_Megumi

39,358
15,178
Someone want this to be happen so welp, gonna make it, who would win!!?

-Base Gil is used and all of his arsenal are unrestricted

-Speed equalized

-Gilgamesh is bloodlusted (I can change it to in character if you all want)

-Place: Einzbern Castle

-Range is 50 meters

-Win via anything!!!

  • Gilgamesh (Fate Series): olacis, anonymousblank, GLHF22, Paul Frank, LSirLancelotDuLacl, CoreOfimBalance(COB), Dragopentling, shiroyashaginsan, John, Ant, Dragon (11)
  • Inconclusive: 0
Kono-Subarashii-Sekai-ni-Shukufuku-wo!-Anime-wiz-(konosuba)-yukarite-3702645
Gilgamesh (Full Power)


VS
 
Bloodlusted Gil against someone who is High 7-A at best while speed is equalized. Really?

As soon as the match begins, Gil rains down a literal ocean of NPs, draws and charges Ea, and unrestricts Sha Naqba Imuru for Clairvoyance on the level of Solomon and Merlin. Wiz gets annihilated.

Also, didn't in-character Base Gil already stomp Wolbach?
 
Oof. This is a thing? Bloodlusting means urestricting SNI meaning if Gil has a way to win, he basically wins.

... time to go see if I can find a way through the wall of text.

Edit: Not sure how her resistance to precog and clairvoyance work, so assuming it completely negs SNI, Gil is probably gonna do the same as normal but go a bit further. Rains weapons while charging up Ea, inuslt Wiz, fire Ea which I believe she survives.

Assuming his SNI doesn't work, Gil's a salty boi rn so he probably throws Phantasmal Punishment or Rule Breaker at the regenerating body pretty fast which is a gg. If her resistance doesn't stop SNI, he just throws them even faster.
 
SNI, Ea and GoB will be nulled with like a thought before sealing him or giving him status effects to put him to sleep. And it bypass resistance. And it can't be dodged.

Most of Gil's stuff will just be useless by atomic level regen. Also she spams teleportation.
 
What does Magic Canceller even null? As far as I know, it can't null weapons and tools with inherent properties, which is what Ea and Bab-ilu (the key that opens GOB) classify as, and SNI is passive.

As for Wiz's atomic level regen, it doesn't matter. All Servants deal soul damage due to being materialized souls themselves, and the destruction of the soul requires Mid-Godly to come back from. Teleportation is pointless since Ea is a planet buster and rips apart space-time.
 
I'm pretty sure it can null Iris' Excalibur as it's considered as magic based trait. As long as it's magic, magic Canceller works.

I'm also pretty sure she says **** you to soul erasure and destruction, even resist godly trait soul erase that works even if the soul is dimension away (Purification and Explosion).
 
"Pretty sure" isn't accepted here. Either it's "definitely the case"/"extremely unlikely not to be the case" or it isn't accepted.

Wiz's durability is Mountain level normally and Large Mountain level at best. Ea is Planet level destruction. No amount of resistance outside of Mid-Godly regen or equally ridiculous hax is going to help her against Ea, or the hundreds of thousands of Mountain level attacks that Wiz is too slow to dodge without teleportation. And remember that Teleport is a highly costly spell. Even Wolbach, a goddess, could only cast two Teleports and a single Explosion a day; Wiz is a Lich and has significantly less mana. Even if she still has a lot, she's not capable of spamming Teleport enough to dodge the GOB for long.

Don't forget that Gilgamesh also has divine and holy weapons in GOB. GOB contains the sum of all human inventions, which include every single anti-Undead superweapon held by the Church. Said weapons were built to take on everything from minor undead to people on the level of this guy. Not to mention that the versions of said weapons that exist in GOB are always superior to the versions held by the Church.
 
It's there on the profile, I'm sure of it.

No? It's basically limitless as said in her spin-off with Vanir, she can shrug explosion which kills the user often because of the Mana cost and never tired in her invasion to the demon king. Too slow? She has FTL reactions and should be faster than Fenrir (Konosuba) who is Relativistic, she has speed advantage and while equalized, it still needs to be shown. Wiz running out of Mana in fight against Hans in PIS.

Regular priests who have spells specifically for undeads like her couldn't do shit to her because of her Magic resistance. Conceptual weapons from church works, sure but SNI is going to be resisted so he needs to guess. Also GoB versions are prototypes.

If she's in definite trouble, just one status effects, curse or energy Ignition is enough, it's undodgeable and EI attacks you from inside.

Btw, Wiz is 7-A that can go toe-to-toe with 2 Gigatons High 7-As.
 
Wiz's speed is equalized with Gilgamesh, and Enkidu, who is vastly superior physically, couldn't dodge an all out assault from GOB without using his own ranged spam, Age of Babylon. Wiz can't dodge a hurricane when she's right in the middle of it from the get-go, and that's what all-out GOB spam is, a literal hurricane and ocean of weapons. Remember that Gilgamesh can open GOB anywhere within his senses, not just behind him. Thousands of simultaneous attacks from literally all possible angles travelling at MHS speeds is nigh-impossible to dodge, and this assault is constant. Wiz won't be able to physically move herself anywhere, since she'll be teleporting the entire time.

It's already been shown that Aqua's casual holy attacks nearly kill her on a consistent basis, and Aqua is High 7-A at best. Since prototypes in the Nasuverse are inherently superior to their modern counterparts, Gilgamesh possesses at least one holy weapon vastly superior to Ciel's Seventh Holy Scripture, which was used in a battle against Arcueid, one of the strongest "undead" in the Nasuverse.

SNI is significantly superor to Vanir's precog. SNI grants Clairvoyance on the same level as Merlin and Solomon, the latter of which can view all events in the past, present and future on a planetary-scale, down to the most minute details. SNI also views parallel worlds.

It also doesn't matter how far into 7-A Wiz is when she's up against a full-powered 5-B attack as soon as the match begins. All Gilgamesh has to do is stall for a few seconds to charge up Ea before he blasts her to kingdom come.

Also, your "pretty sure" is wrong. No mention of Magic Canceller nulling Iris' sword on Wiz's profile.
 
It said that it negates magic, it's enough. I can add that but it's not that mentionable in a bigger picture, I mean it magic in general neg after all, adding weapons is unnecessary.

Few seconds is enough for Wiz to just think to cast EI or any curse or status effect, Gil is incapacitated with any effect she wants from sleeping, paralysis to just collapse. It doesn't even need physical movement.

She has forcefield made out of ice, enough to block most of Gil's stuff, it's lower than dura of ice shields. She can just curse or EI while teleporting, most of the weapons he will use won't even scratch Wiz because of 3x AP gap against GoB. It pierced Heracles with strongest weapon while Wiz can effortlessly take Duke's attacks while jobbing.

Vanir with just sight can learn everything from your name, abilities, past, present, future, your problems, you wallet, where's your friends and what they're doing, what they like, what they hate, how to solve every single problem with superb accuracy (except when it's beyond saving like Yunyun), etc. It'll be dulled especially when Sakura can do it.

Aqua's holy aura is enough to instantly erase any evil beings like Wiz. Nothing in Nasuverse that I can remember have existence erasing holy weapon. Also it negates dura, tier doesn't matter at all.
 
First of all, work on your English. I can barely understand you.

Secondly, you can't apply feats to abilities that have yet to showcase said feats. Divine Relics in Konosuba are considered cheat items that are meant to serve as massive boons for fighting the Demon King. If their abilities could be cancelled out by a normal, albeit high-tier spell, they wouldn't be cheat items. Unless you can show me scans of Magic Canceller preventing the use of extremely high-tier magical weapons and tools, your claim holds no water.

Thirdly, Gilgamesh's magic resistance cripples Wiz's status spells and curses. His resistance is good enough to protect from atomization via Excalibur and resist several Command Spells, which can force other Servants to perform feats that are normally physically impossible for them to do normally. He also tanked over 6 billion curses from Angra Mainyu and came out of it practically unscathed.

Wiz's ice shields have no listed durability except for the note that Wiz's durability rating is Large Mountain level at best. Gil's treasures have Mountain level AP at least, and he's firing tens of thousands of them every second. Gil piercing Heracles' skin is with his higher tier weaponry, but those weapons are nowhere near his best. He has weapons three times stronger than the ones he used against Heracles, not even including Ea.

To elaborate, it explicitly takes A rank weaponry or higher to pierce Herc's skin. A rank is worth 50 units. Gilgamesh has weapons up to A++ rank, which is worth 150 units. Add that to GOB sheer number of attacks, it more than makes up for the difference between its AP and Wiz's durability.

SNI is borderline omniscience when unrestricted. It gives Gilgamesh knowledge of everything he needs and wants to know, using information taken from an infinite amount of parallel worlds. If he wants to know something, he'll use SNI and get his answer. SNI's most basic ability is to give Gilgamesh the perfect solution to any problem he has and show him the best possible moves he can make in any given situation. Vanir's clairvoyance is nothing in comparison.

In short, GOB shatters Wiz's shields, Magic Resistance prevents Wiz's curses and status effects from working well enough to stop him from using Ea, and SNI tells Gil exactly what to watch out for and how to defend from whatever Wiz has up her sleeves.

Just in case I didn't make it clear, voting for Gilgamesh.
 
The fact that this is bloodlusted Gil and that I hold heavy skepticism that Magic Canceller works on high grade magical weapons makes me cast my vote for Gil.

That said Solaris, resisting the curses and Excalibur atomization has nothing to do with Magic Resistance. The former was Gil's immense ego rejecting blackening and the latter was his armor. His armor is not specialized for magic resistance but blocking off pretification. Even a Pegasus with higher magic cancel than Saber and already on the level of a Dragon's got erased off the earth by a direct Excaliblast, it's impossible to think Gil's armor not geared towards warding from magic or magic energy was the deciding factor. The armor's pure durability and his powerful will are more likely, plus the attack being delivered as a focused slash and not a blast to his everything.
 
Gilg FRA

Just so this isn't just a FRA vote, I really don't think anything in Wiz's arsenal, Magic Canceller included which sounds a bit NLFish on cancelling any magic, is enough to keep up.
 
@LSirLancelotDuLacl

I remember a statement saying that Gil's armor boosts the rank of his Magic Resistance, which is why I mentioned it.
 
voting Gilgamesh, cause he either just spams Gate of Bablyon all day or just be like "**** it" and save time with Ea

Honestly, I don't see any feasible way that Wiz can retaliate and get on the offensive. Plus, Gilgamesh does seem to have Magic Resistance like Solacis stated. Power Canceller is a questionable ability because I have not recalled a time when it has actually worked on higher grade magic. Honestly, the best she can do would be to try to stall out on defense, which is all for naught if we were to keep Gilgy bloodlusted.
 
@Lsir Lancelot

I think SNI is unnecessary for here, if Gilg does have it but that does open up two things.

In the wiki it states that he's prevented from seeing other futures and he can view them as nonsense. So either

A) Gilgamesh will still acknowledge existing futures as something that can't possibly happen and will thus lose...

Or

B) Only Kid Gil and Caster Gil has it since the existence of SNI has only been referenced in Fate Extellia and FGO on Kid Gil only
 
Kid Gil is just a de-aged normal Gil. SNI debuted in F/HA where Gil took a youth potion and became Kid Gil. His Spirit Origin wasn't changed, so it means that normal Gil has the same NPs as Kid Gil.

As for the first point, Gil only does that when he sees futures that go against his arrogant viewpoint. This doesn't apply for two reasons: 1) Full Power Gil has his arrogance toned down in favour of logic, and 2) he won't see any futures that he can't believe could happen because any futures in which he's losing would mean he's done something so ridiculously stupid that the result is justified.
 


It is not sure if his adult self, became younger by eating the miracle drug of rejuvenation, or if he had manifested in the form of his younger days from the beginning. It is believed that what is acting as the model for his mentality is the heart from when he was called a wise ruler in the past.[1]


You're right, but that doesn't mean you're right, as Shirou would say. You're neglecting the fact that literally in FGO Kid Gil and Regular Gil have separate spirit origins. They're the same person as much as Jeanne Alter Lily Santa, Jeanne Alter Santa, Jeanne Alter, and Jeanne are the same person. Very very different and different abilities. Deaged or not, Kid Gil actually doesn't have what Current Gil has and neither does he.

That does make sense. But I'm fairly confident that any incarnation of Gil in CCC would have the ability listed on him as something that exists for him. Sure full power Gil has his arrogance toned down (thank goodness, he's only arrogant in modern era after all) but there's also the aspect that... What really changes whether he has the ability or not? Has he done anything plot relevant relying on such an ability? Used it in battle? Even referenced it talking to someone? Like any at all.

But from what it seems, the only connection here is Kid Gil having it. Nothing else.

They're really quite different characters. I think it even makes sense on why Caster Gil has it, is because that is Gil at his most non arrogant. Aka at his most humblest and wisest, and thus he's very much different from Archer Gil who still retains some pride and arrogance, but is almost getting rid of it.
 
You misunderstand. My point is that because Kid Gil in F/HA had it, and Kid Gil in F/HA is just a de-aged version of Adult Gil and the potion of youth has no way of altering his Spirit Origin, it's only logical that Adult Gil also has SNI. That's just how the Fuyuki Grail system works.

Just because they are summoned separately in FGO, doesn't affect my argument. They are separate cases. In F/HA they are ineherently the same Spirit, with just a change in shape and size. In FGO they're summoned separately and have no other link besides a shared identity.
 
Looking through Fate Hollow material, very obscure stuff showing... I can't find much, and although Gilgamesh did ingest that drink, he's somehow able to talk to the child version of himself too.... That kinda contradicts the fact that they're the same person huh. I'll read more onto this.

Even if the above is accepted, That's fair and indeed FGO is not non-official. But now we have two cases of contradictory information then.... And the supporting information of Gilgamesh never using SNI then in battle or any scene whatsoever.

That kinda puts a damper on the usage of SNI on Adult Gilg.
 
Nasu's already stated in an interview that Adult Gil just keeps SNI suppressed due to arrogance reasons. Naturally, serious Gil means SNI is unrestricted.
 
So just the WoG then? Don't we have issues with accepting WoGs that can be contradicted? I've seen power nerfs that way befpre which would mean that Gilg's precog is not as absolute as we think. But even with that in mind, that doesn't neglect the fact that Gilg restricts himself on purpose and this is him in character and not bloodlusted. Well, for the Thanos one at least. Let's move on there why don't we?

In conclusion, he's willing to reject futures that can't be possible to his eyes.
 
Except that it can't really be contradicted. The reason he doesn't use it is the same reason he holds back on a lot of his treasury - arrogance. Nasu refers to it when speaking of a Heaven's Feel scenario, in which he ain't a kid. The very same reason he can defeat Rani in chess every time in CCC, where he's also an adult, is a nearly verbatim copy of his "looking on from above" as a King that is the whole basis of his NP.

And no, so far as we've seen, SNI is absolute as a tool. It's effectiveness doesn't change because Gil refuses to believe anything specific that it shows him.

Not to mention, a powerless girl that's human to boot eating him up in moments is way different from a non human with tons of power achieving to hurt him. El-Melloi made a specific plan to face Gilgamesh face on so he'd feel compelled to hold back rather than go all out like when he's ambushed or attack straight away, which he even did against Sakura but the Shadow is too good at skewering spirits. If it's related to Wiz, is less likely he'll just scoff... granted this is still bloodlusted so it doesn't matter much.
 
The contradiction is the idea itself that he uses it when there have been no other clear reference to it. How was he not able to see the Grail wanting to swallow him when technically he was free from restriction of the Moon Cell now that he received a human body and was now participating in a Grail war? He was in under no obligation or restrictions and was perfectly okay as he is, so it's a contradiction and impossibility for SNI to not be on that time.

So either

A - The perfect precognition is not as perfect and rather acts as a guiding tool and Gilgamesh can, as you say, restrict himself by not picking the best option. After all, as the chess piece analogy, it only displays the best option for him like a permanent hint. He's free to not choose it. I see it as being reasonable considering he doesn't go all out whenever he faces someone new. But even that speaks levels of his arrogance.

B - Or two, unless there are further backings of him explicitly using SNI aside from Child Gil being only said to have used it, then we have no further proof that his SNI is a mentality born from his mind as a kid. It's referenced that as a kid, he's smarter with the use of the Gates of Babylon since it's not as powerful. He isn't as capable or as strong as the current Gilgamesh, so he acted smart and used it effectively. Only Child Gil has it, and thus it makes sense that Gilgamesh, who has become proud and reliant on his treasury, has lost this ability in the first place.

There could be a possibility for both but let's dismiss that for the two big ones.

So far we've seen? What have we seen from SNI? We have a WoG and a description. If he's shown the best options and EVERYTHING in the future why was he surprised when Heracles broke free? Why was he unable to comprehend Shirou being able to keep up with him? Is it because his power to see the future is not perfect or is it simply because he doesn't have it anymore due to the mentality of Child Gil being focused and intelligent and being "Use everything I can to my full disposal?"

Yes. A powerless girl that's able to defeat Servant after Servant. Unless Gilgamesh was lacking common sense he would've at least used Enuma Elish on it instead of bombarding it attack after attack and letting himself be eaten. Heck, even use his flying Vimana thing. It can't possibly chase him up there. But nay. He couldn't even pick a basic Non-lose action. He was already free from the Grail War's restrictions so why was that the case?

Kudos to El-Melloi. However, I'm going to have to ask you where did that happen? Fate Hollow or something? Another adaptation? I can't seem to find it. Now I have a silly image of Waver begging Gilgamesh to go easy lol. Though seriously, where can I find this?

There are so many contradictions that it's not funny. If we say that SNI does exist, so many events back then makes Gilgamesh out to be a bigger dumbass.

Especially with the fact that Fate only gained this ability years after those are published. You end up with a finnicky situation of Gilgamesh's character really really prevents him from using this to its fullest potential and thus it makes sense for his non-prideful sides to be the ones using this ability. Aka Caster Gil and Kid Gil.
 
Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. Mind if you share a pic? Or a link to a scene? Just curious and I kinda want to see how different it is.

But the issue remains with the rest.
 
@Jon

Thanks!

@Iapitus

If I recall Fate has been known to use flowery language before. Well, not just Fate but most Light Novels and VNs. How do you even bind space? Though that would be badass
 
I'm not sure, but in context, it states this quote only a few lines earlier:

"What kind of a Noble Phantasm is it?
The chain that appeared out of nowhere confines Berserker as if binding space itself."

So that either makes it more valid or less valid

Probably the same way someone like Whitebeard grabs space to create earth quakes
 
From what I seen, fine. I cast my vote for Gil. Though this may be going to be outdated because Wiz is going to be Low 6-B or straight up 6-B.
 
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