WAHOOOO! Mario Bros AP Revision/Upgrade! (M&L Brothership Spoilers)

[Imaginym]

Very true but tbf bro has had to do nothing but repeat himself for like 3 whole pages because we're having peeps wanting to ignore simple narrative for the gameplay mechanics but yeah I think a step back is needed for everyone.

I can say I do agree with chariot on the star rod portion do we have any other feats that could potentially get decently into tier 6?

AFAIK, in this thread:

1. Cord feat: Valid calc, but an outlier.
2. Shadow Queen's earthquake. Argued to not scale, IIRC, because Shadow Queen was holding back & invulnerable or something?
3. Ice Flower freezing the sun: Misapplication of a potential yield (Only freezing part of the sun.) to support a favorable rating.
4. Star Rod is what makes the Stars shine. Would only scale to Bowser, & maybe downscale greatly to Mario &/or his durability, given the discussion above?
Looking at the 'verse page, here's all the other Tier 6 calcs linked there:

• Mario, Peach and Mallow part a cloud - 24.49 gigatons of TNT (6-C, Island level)
• Donkey Kong launches the Moon - 33.66 gigatons of TNT (6-C, Island level)
• Giant Bowser punches a castle around the world - 2.7 teratons of TNT (Low 6-B, Small Country level)

What about those?

I can't think of much else off the top of my head. It's been a long day. Sorry.

 

[Omnificence]

I can say I do agree with chariot on the star rod portion do we have any other feats that could potentially get decently into tier 6?

Well, I did calculate the power of the Star Rod here & I've thought about proposing a new key for Bowser with it again. But what's everyone's input on the Star Rod here so far?

 

[Omnificence]

• Mario, Peach and Mallow part a cloud - 24.49 gigatons of TNT (6-C, Island level)
• Donkey Kong launches the Moon - 33.66 gigatons of TNT (6-C, Island level)
• Giant Bowser punches a castle around the world - 2.7 teratons of TNT (Low 6-B, Small Country level)

There's literally only two 6-C feats & one Low 6-B feat compared to several other tier 9 through tier 7 feats for this franchise. What's the problem with adding a High 6-A calc or two like this when all we have is this the cast scales to?

 

[Dalesean027]

Well, I did calculate the power of the Star Rod here & I've thought about proposing a new key for Bowser with it again. But what's everyone's input on the Star Rod here so far?

We really need to stop linking this one, we already know it narratively doesn't scale to the cast and they canonically use items to negate it with bowser despite how you CAN choose to handle it yourself we know its negated in the story

AFAIK, in this thread:

1. Cord feat: Valid calc, but an outlier.
2. Shadow Queen's earthquake. Argued to not scale, IIRC, because Shadow Queen was holding back & invulnerable or something?
3. Ice Flower freezing the sun: Misapplication of a potential yield (Only freezing part of the sun.) to support a favorable rating.
4. Star Rod is what makes the Stars shine. Would only scale to Bowser, & maybe downscale greatly to Mario &/or his durability, given the discussion above?
Looking at the 'verse page, here's all the other Tier 6 calcs linked there:

• Mario, Peach and Mallow part a cloud - 24.49 gigatons of TNT (6-C, Island level)
• Donkey Kong launches the Moon - 33.66 gigatons of TNT (6-C, Island level)
• Giant Bowser punches a castle around the world - 2.7 teratons of TNT (Low 6-B, Small Country level)

What about those?

I can't think of much else off the top of my head. It's been a long day. Sorry.

The High 6-A ofc can't be support for itself but it could maybe act as support for a somewhat higher tier 6? my own calc is High 6-B+ and we do have that other low 6-B one you put there

 

[CloverDragon03]

If the High 6-B+ calc is accepted would that not be support for High 6-A? I mean, Paper Mario is depicted as comparable to Mario and Luigi in Paper Jam, no?

 

[Chariot190]

Should they not be considered to have gotten stronger since they got stronger via means other than artificial amps? Like Mario's adventuring experience & whatnot?

The doesn't mean a thing, at all, you need to prove they keep the amps that make them that strong.

It doesn't matter if he gets stronger when the gap is literally like a million times. Yeah he gets stronger, how much, 10%? 2x? None, it's arbitrary.

Like, why is him getting stronger the same as being empowered by 7 magic star dudes and Bows being amped by a reality warping wand?

Should be decided on if it's accurate. If you wanna abstain from deciding in that, that's fine. No offense meant.

You yourself has given the proof required for it to be exactly that.
The only way otherwise, is if we'd fall back into just ignoring shit.

Is your only reason for this adamant-ness about Mario being able to get past Bowser's Star Rod invulnerability only all the statements?

Dude, the very plot of the goddamn game let alone "all the statements". The fact there's even ONE statement should've ended this argument hours ago.

Like jesus christ, why is this still going on, you yourself posted a scene that straight up says he needed Star Beam, the fact that was like the NINTH thing is actual insanity.

2. Shadow Queen's earthquake. Argued to not scale, IIRC, because Shadow Queen was holding back & invulnerable or something?

Shadow Queen flatout vaporizes the semi-final boss with a flick. States she was sandbagging. And Mario is completely unable to deal even 1 damage at all no matter what needs an omega amp to fight her.
The alleged scan also doesn't take place after Shadow Queen, and the raw even words it as just "wow so strong! they must be like a final boss lol", not actually comparing it to anyone or anything, doubly so because they say that before they even know Shadow Queen exists.

Also 6-B, she shakes the planet but eh.

3. Ice Flower freezing the sun: Misapplication of a potential yield (Only freezing part of the sun.) to support a favorable rating.

Pretty much. Doesn't help how wildly it can actually vary.

4. Star Rod is what makes the Stars shine. Would only scale to Bowser, & maybe downscale greatly to Mario &/or his durability, given the discussion above?

Probably scales him tanking. But only in that game due to amps.

• Mario, Peach and Mallow part a cloud - 24.49 gigatons of TNT (6-C, Island level)

Tbh I don't mind this if it's consistent.

• Donkey Kong launches the Moon - 33.66 gigatons of TNT (6-C, Island level)

i do mind this, is DKC even canon.

• Giant Bowser punches a castle around the world - 2.7 teratons of TNT (Low 6-B, Small Country level)

I'm pretty sure we DO accept that? But Bows is just amped when he does it.

 

[Dalesean027]

Paper Mario Color Splash Fan Spin Recalc (Kinda)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Well it needs CGM approval

 

[Chariot190]

If the High 6-B+ calc is accepted would that not be support for High 6-A? I mean, Paper Mario is depicted as comparable to Mario and Luigi in Paper Jam, no?

Color Splash happens after Paper Jam.
Works for current Paper, doesn't work for main.

 

[Omnificence]

Feat 3 (Power-Up Exclusive): Snoutlet states that the Ice Flower can freeze the Sun - No proper calculation. From what I've observed, freezing the surface of the Sun can net High 6-A

So, if Bowser is amped when he performs that feat, why can't we just have Mario & Luigi placed at something like "High 6-A with certain power-ups" based upon this feat? Their power-ups are basically amps and the bros are already "Low 6-B with power-ups".

 

[CloverDragon03]

Color Splash happens after Paper Jam.
Works for current Paper, doesn't work for main.

Why is it after Paper Jam? I never played Color Splash and barely remember Paper Jam so idk if there's any lore reason for this, but at least going by release dates it'd be the opposite. And even if that's true, this requires the assumption that Paper Mario suddenly got much stronger in Color Splash. We only have one Base Form key so by our own logic that's not the case.

 

[Chariot190]

So, if Bowser is amped when he performs that feat, why can't we just have Mario & Luigi placed at something like "High 6-A with certain power-ups" based upon this feat? Their power-ups are basically amps.

Because it isn't actually a High 6-A feat, That's for freezing just a very specific depth of the sun.

The timeframe, amount of attacks, and a bunch of other stuff make it essentially unusable. It's basically just good cold manip in potency and a complete unknown value that could be anywhere from tier 6 to like 4-something.

Why is it after Paper Jam? I never played Color Splash and barely remember Paper Jam so idk if there's any lore reason for this, but at least going by release dates it'd be the opposite.

Uh, because it came out after?
October 13, 2016 Color Splash.
December 3, 2015 Paper Jam.

And even if that's true, this requires the assumption that Paper Mario suddenly got much stronger in Color Splash. We only have one Base Form key so by our own logic that's not the case.

Dude, we know he gets stronger, it doesn't matter how much stronger he gets, whether the feat is 1.5x, or 50,000,000,000x above the last best feat, he got as strong as he's shown, it invalidates any prior scaling, end of. This is how it works for every verse ever that has power escalation.

 

[ShakeResounding]

So, if Bowser is amped when he performs that feat, why can't we just have Mario & Luigi placed at something like "High 6-A with certain power-ups" based upon this feat? Their power-ups are basically amps and the bros are already "Low 6-B with power-ups".

Because it would be inaccurate to apply a different that calculation when the context of the freezing calc is vastly different. It was just a frame of reference that the true calculation's yield for freezing the Sun would be far higher.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

 

[Omnificence]

Because it isn't actually a High 6-A feat, That's for freezing just a very specific depth of the sun.

The timeframe, amount of attacks, and a bunch of other stuff make it essentially unusable. It's basically just good cold manip in potency and a complete unknown value that could be anywhere from tier 6 to like 4-something.

Because it would be inaccurate to apply a different that calculation when the context of the freezing calc is vastly different. It was just a frame of reference that the true calculation's yield for freezing the Sun would be far higher.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

Okay, then why not just swap that with the High 6-B feat & say something like "Low 6-B to High 6-B with power-ups?"

 

[Chariot190]

Okay, then why not just swap that with the High 6-B feat & say something like "Low 6-B to High 6-B with power-ups?"

Because Color Splash happens after Paper Jam.
We have no idea if mainline Mario scales to Color Splash Mario, especially when you don't exactly start with the fan, there's some progression there.

Any Paper feat post Paper Jam, even if it's an upgrade, can't be scaled to main Mario even if it scales to Paper Mario due to Paper Mario's own power escalation over time.

 

[Omnificence]

Because Color Splash happens after Paper Jam.
We have no idea if mainline Mario scales to Color Splash Mario, especially when you don't exactly start with the fan, there's some progression there.

Any Paper feat post Paper Jam, even if it's an upgrade, can't be scaled to main Mario even if it scales to Paper Mario due to Paper Mario's own power escalation over time.

Oh well; I tried.

 

[Chariot190]

mainline shit has a handful of decent feats, idk why we grasping and twisting a few niche feats when more legit stuff exists right there.

 

[Imaginym]

Dare I ask what?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Uh, because it came out after?
October 13, 2016 Color Splash.
December 3, 2015 Paper Jam.

Chat I might've mixed up the release dates

Dude, we know he gets stronger, it doesn't matter how much stronger he gets, whether the feat is 1.5x, or 50,000,000,000x above the last best feat, he got as strong as he's shown, it invalidates any prior scaling, end of. This is how it works for every verse ever that has power escalation.

How do we know he gets stronger between games? Is this said somewhere, or is it assumed?

 

[Chariot190]

There's a shitton, whether it's Dark Bowser spitting out clouds (you'd need to divide by timeframe but like, it's there, note, the storm aspect of it is ass, but he's the source of the clouds so KE can be used, would need the omnidrectional formula tho), to even small stuff like creating suns (and when I say that, I don't mean actual suns, I mean like, room sized ones, which is still like 6-B to 6-A).

You're all grasping at weird highly interpretative feats or ignoring huge caveats that invalidate them when we got shit like cloud parting, wacky KE, actual on screen creation feats, eruption shit, etc.

Like I just don't really get it, and that gets roided out if DKC is canon.
Feats exist that don't need "well MAYBE this is true, and IF that is true, this MIGHT become possible, and if this is possible and we assume it's true, because we assume this other thing is true, it enables this, which then enables us to scale it lmao". Like nobody really gonna ******* argue if non-amped Mario dude scales to non-amped feat.

Now, when I say feats exist, I'm not particularly saying shit like 6-A there's a legit 5-B feat but I can only think of any so that ain't really useful as it'd be an outlier unless you find like 5 more, but 6-something shit exists if you just put in the effort to calc the right stuff that isn't subject to all this bullshit.

 

[Chariot190]

Chat I might've mixed up the release dates

How do we know he gets stronger between games? Is this said somewhere, or is it assumed?

Both, ignoring the whole RPG aspect which is canon within it, each game usually yaps about how much stronger he's gotten over the adventure. How much, can vary, but the fact he does at all kinda makes backscaling impossible without extra information.

 

[CloverDragon03]

There's a shitton, whether it's Dark Bowser spitting out clouds (you'd need to divide by timeframe but like, it's there, note, the storm aspect of it is ass, but he's the source of the clouds so KE can be used, would need the omnidrectional formula tho), to even small stuff like creating suns (and when I say that, I don't mean actual suns, I mean like, room sized ones, which is still like 6-B to 6-A).

You're all grasping at weird highly interpretative feats or ignoring huge caveats that invalidate them when we got shit like cloud parting, wacky KE, actual on screen creation feats, eruption shit, etc.

Like I just don't really get it, and that gets roided out if DKC is canon.
Feats exist that don't need "well MAYBE this is true, and IF that is true, this MIGHT become possible, and if this is possible and we assume it's true, because we assume this other thing is true, it enables this, which then enables us to scale it lmao". Like nobody really gonna ******* argue if non-amped Mario dude scales to non-amped feat.

Now, when I say feats exist, I'm not particularly saying shit like 6-A there's a legit 5-B feat but I can only think of any so that ain't really useful as it'd be an outlier unless you find like 5 more, but 6-something shit exists if you just put in the effort to calc the right stuff that isn't subject to all this bullshit.

It's hard not to, in all honesty, when all the responses have amounted to anytime a feat is brought up is "we're just gonna ignore it like we do to all of Mario's other high-end feats." Like at some point I feel like this is genuinely unfair

Both, ignoring the whole RPG aspect which is canon within it, each game usually yaps about how much stronger he's gotten over the adventure. How much, can vary, but the fact he does at all kinda makes backscaling impossible without extra information.

By the RPG aspect being canon within it, do you mean the tutorials? Also, I'd admittedly prefer if something like that is brought up specifically within Paper Jam, since it could just mean he gets stronger throughout some games and not so much throughout others. For example, I wouldn't really say he gets stronger throughout any of the mainline platformers

 

[Chariot190]

It's hard not to, in all honesty, when all the responses have amounted to anytime a feat is brought up is "we're just gonna ignore it like we do to all of Mario's other high-end feats." Like at some point I feel like this is genuinely unfair

Not my fault. Bring me 3 feats within the same general ballpark without weird fucky caveats like amps and I'm fine with it. I think we got 3 6-C feats without fuckys like Mallow's cloud feat or DK if canon.

By the RPG aspect being canon within it, do you mean the tutorials?

They acknowledge leveling and getting stronger and shit at points in past games, the verse mechanics ain't gonna suddenly change.

Also, I'd admittedly prefer if something like that is brought up specifically within Paper Jam, since it could just mean he gets stronger throughout some games and not so much throughout others. For example, I wouldn't really say he gets stronger throughout any of the mainline platformers

They mention it in every game at some point, even if it's just an offhanded "wow we've gotten so much stronger!" at some point, and it isn't Paper Jam, it's Color Splash that's the problem. Mind you they yap about it there too dont ask me where, i played it once and hated it, i couldnt find a textdump within 2 minutes so sucks to suck, I aint watching a whole walkthrough for it.
But even ignoring that, why would he get stronger in every game but suddenly just not in this one? It's already an established thing, and it isn't like he doesn't level up still.

It'd be like assuming sonic suddenly isn't getting strongerover time even though establish that's how he works, and then suddenly he whips out a feat 100x higher than last time we seen him, or like Goku didn't get stronger after getting his ass kicked in a fight, they don't need to say it every five seconds.
It's just how it be.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Not my fault. Bring me 3 feats within the same general ballpark without weird fucky caveats like amps and I'm fine with it. I think we got 3 6-C feats without fuckys like Mallow's cloud feat or DK if canon.

Kinda is y'all's fault since y'all are the ones that established that this all of a sudden needs to be a thing, this wasn't the case before

They acknowledge leveling and getting stronger and shit at points in past games, the verse mechanics ain't gonna suddenly change.

They mention it in every game at some point, even if it's just an offhanded "wow we've gotten so much stronger!" at some point, and it isn't Paper Jam, it's Color Splash that's the problem. Mind you they yap about it there too dont ask me where, i played it once and hated it, i couldnt find a textdump within 2 minutes so sucks to suck, I aint watching a whole walkthrough for it.
But even ignoring that, why would he get stronger in every game but suddenly just not in this one? It's already an established thing, and it isn't like he doesn't level up still.

It'd be like assuming sonic suddenly isn't getting strongerover time even though establish that's how he works, and then suddenly he whips out a feat 100x higher than last time we seen him, or like Goku didn't get stronger after getting his ass kicked in a fight, they don't need to say it every five seconds.
It's just how it be.

I'll take your word for it, but there are still two issues in what you're saying:

1. I never said that he gets stronger in every game but not this one. I even mentioned I don't think he really gets stronger throughout most mainline platformers
2. Sonic and Goku are their own cases and are noted to rapidly improve, so unless Mario's like that then no I'd prefer statements of power growth over just assuming as much

 

[Chariot190]

Kinda is y'all's fault since y'all are the ones that established that this all of a sudden needs to be a thing, this wasn't the case before

I'm pretty sure consistency for a verse has always been a thing.
personally i think he should be split up via game sections, like yeah no shit M&L isn't consistent with New Super or something, they're working on a diff scale. I legit think some Mario's do hit shit like 3-B while others ain't even 8-B, but we comp them so the lower end games kind of gut the higher end ones due to the whole trying to make them all work despite obvious intent of variance.

I'll take your word for it, but there are still two issues in what you're saying:

1. I never said that he gets stronger in every game but not this one. I even mentioned I don't think he really gets stronger throughout most mainline platformers

Well, yeah, not the platformers, but, Paper Mario isn't that Mario? Paper Mario gets stronger over time, mainline Mario might not except in M&L but no shit

They're two different characters. The problem stems from the fact PM DOES grow in strength, and the 6-B feat takes place in a game that happens after the game where Main Mario scales to PM.

The issue is, the PM in Paper Jam, and the PM in dogshit aren't exactly the same level of power. If we don't know the dfference we can't scale.

1. Sonic and Goku are their own cases and are noted to rapidly improve, so unless Mario's like that then no I'd prefer statements of power growth over just assuming as much

Except Paper Mario is literally a dude who gets stronger throughout his adventures and over time and yadda yadda. The absolute BEST you could assume, is lv1 is equal to his (base) peak prior game, bar any notable amps like Pure Hearts. But..... Fan isn't a starting item, you get it kinda early but still a ways off the start so backscaling is ******, even with that generous assumption.

Conflating main Mario not growing always doesn't work when PM is literally like 7 to 7 where that happens.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm pretty sure consistency for a verse has always been a thing.

That's why we ignored so many feats, right? Totally wasn't arbitrary. Yeah, consistency...

Well, yeah, not the platformers, but, Paper Mario isn't that Mario? Paper Mario gets stronger over time, mainline Mario might not except in M&L but no shit

They're two different characters. The problem stems from the fact PM DOES grow in strength, and the 6-B feat takes place in a game that happens after the game where Main Mario scales to PM.

The issue is, the PM in Paper Jam, and the PM in dogshit aren't exactly the same level of power. If we don't know the dfference we can't scale.

Except Paper Mario is literally a dude who gets stronger throughout his adventures and over time and yadda yadda. The absolute BEST you could assume, is lv1 is equal to his (base) peak prior game, bar any notable amps like Pure Hearts. But..... Fan isn't a starting item, you get it kinda early but still a ways off the start so backscaling is ******, even with that generous assumption.

Conflating main Mario not growing always doesn't work when PM is literally like 7 to 7 where that happens.

This is kinda whatever because it's like, different takes on the same Mario but they also are separate characters as Paper Jam shows so, sure ig

 

[Omnificence]

I suppose Armor raises a valid point that we'd need more than 1 feat on a certain Tier.

That's why we ignored so many feats, right? Totally wasn't arbitrary. Yeah, consistency...

Why do we need more than one feat, anyway? When the downgrade was applied last year, we only had one 6-C feat for the entire cast & they scaled to it up until the next upgrade. Not to mention the fact Bowser only has one Low 6-B feat via an amp & Mario scales to it with his power-ups. Besides, there are several feats calculated that range in the ballpark from tier 9 to tier 7 moreso than the very few tier 6 feats we have. If we're looking for consistency in this case, it doesn't make sense to keep the cast at tier 6 when there are less feats in that area than all the tier 9-7 ones that were calculated.

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

6 PAGES, 6 PAGES. Tears in my eyes man, this mario scaling junk gets serious. Get ready to die and crash over behind it.

 

[Chariot190]

That's why we ignored so many feats, right? Totally wasn't arbitrary. Yeah, consistency...

The **** are you getting on my ass for dude, shit ain't my CRT. Be happy I said I'd be fine with an upgrade as long as like 3ish or so feats get brought forth, in which pretty sure that's already been done so why the complaining, to me, I never even MADE a Mario downgrade before.
But yeah, actually.

If there's like 10 4-B, but 1000 8-C, you're lucky they're even at where they are if we're being real. The 4-B isn't the consistent part in this hypothetical, but the 8-C.

This is kinda whatever because it's like, different takes on the same Mario but they also are separate characters as Paper Jam shows so, sure ig

If they weren't literally different mfs I'd agree as the growth thing would be the exceptions, not the rule.

6 PAGES, 6 PAGES. Tears in my eyes man, this mario scaling junk gets serious. Get ready to die and crash over behind it.

I'd post the funny Snake gif but I'd probably get reported and banned over a meme.

 

[Dalesean027]

Why do we need more than one feat, anyway? When the downgrade was applied last year, we only had one 6-C feat for the entire cast & they scaled to it up until the next upgrade. Not to mention the fact Bowser only has one Low 6-B feat via an amp & Mario scales to it with his power-ups. Besides, there are several feats calculated that range in the ballpark from tier 9 to tier 7 moreso than the very few tier 6 feats we have. If we're looking for consistency in this case, it doesn't make sense to keep the cast at tier 6 when there are less feats in that area than all the tier 9-7 ones that were calculated.

man lets not do this again this has been explained to yall genuinely too many times, just stop pushing out this defeatist mindset like goons are out to get yall when Armor has numerous times explained his reasoning. Literally why try and vilify it and stir up drama

It's not very strange, one of them has feats supporting it, the other doesn't. You're saying "ok you made this compromise so why aren't you ok with making a much bigger one", that is unreasonable. I never said "there's this many anti-feats, find me more feats for a certain tier", I just said "since there's this many anti-feats, any tier that the verse is rated at should have a good amount of feats supporting it".

There's a lot more where this came from too and you know it so please don't do what you're doing.

Genuinely instead of trying to hark off on Chariot and Armor we've already been told there are other better and blatant feats yall could be using instead of the ones that are having shady workaround arguments. Instead of whining about this again we've already got some new feats done here to support already just find a few more of the other good ones to use to solidify the exact scaling you're wanting to get approved its that simple. I've literally already gave a High 6-B+ one and I'm doing another. What exactly are yall doing besides whining IM NOT EVEN A MARIO GOON and I'm contributing more because I want to throw yall a bone and MFER the goons who are giving me these to calcs ARE SONIC GOONS and CHARIOT HIMSELF so like dawg just chill and actually find something worthwhile to contribute

ain't like we haven't also had other staff say they'd be find if yall get like 1 or 2 more solid supporting feats that are in that range

 

[Chariot190]

Why do we need more than one feat?

Same reason any verse would? If JoJo randomly shat out a 7-C feat, I wouldn't use it as it wouldn't be consistent at the moment.

You need to factor in quantity, quality, did some feats take effort? Do they have anti-feats? Shown or stated caps? Like a verse with a billion casual 7-C feats having a high effort 7-A feat wouldn't inherently be an outlier, but if those 7-C feats hurt, took effort, etc, it would be an outlier. But like, if a verse had a bunch of 7-C feats, a high end 7-A feat, but also like 5 8-C anti-feats, we'd have to go, well damn, can we excuse these 8-C anti-feats? How much more consistent is this over the 7-C and one off 7-A? Is there more 7-C feats? Are those 7-C feats even straightforward? Like the more unconventional a feat, the more likely it might be subject to inflation even if accidental beyond what's intended, and inversely is the 8-C feats straightforward, blatant, are the REALLY anti-feats or is there context to excuse them, etc.

There's a fuckton going into play beyond "uhm big number fellas?". No shit you'd need not just one feat for a hyper massive pretty inconsistent verse to get a rating.

When the downgrade was applied last year, we only had one 6-C feat for the entire cast & they scaled to it up until the next upgrade. Not to mention the fact Bowser only has one Low 6-B feat via an amp & Mario scales to it with his power-ups. Besides, there are several feats calculated that range in the ballpark from tier 9 to tier 7 moreso than the very few tier 6 feats we have. If we're looking for consistency in this case, it doesn't make sense to keep the cast at tier 6 when there are less feats in that area than all the tier 9-7 ones that were calculated.

So like, do you want a downgrade?
I'm personally fine with excusing the fucktrillion 9-B or 9-A feats because I can only think of like one or two that aren't omega hyper casual feats.

Which is another thing to factor in, when there's a bunch of feats on EVERY tier really, including casual AND anti-feat ones, such as Bows getting his shit rocked by like a 7-C blast, but also casually doing like a 7-B feat, but also getting hurt by like an 8-B thing, but also doing a 6-C feat, etc. This shit becomes pretty nuanced. If ya'll want to composite Mario, you need to accept getting a "fair" tier for him while factoring ime the billion caveats, anti-feats, casual feats, caps, high ends, etc isn't just "damn one feat let's go".

I'd be fine with an upgrade if there's a few feats supporting it, that don't involve whatever this thread has been. Like, that random Mallow and DK feat I have no problem with for example, straightforward shit really.

 

[Omnificence]

Same reason any verse would? If JoJo randomly shat out a 7-C feat, I wouldn't use it as it wouldn't be consistent at the moment.

You need to factor in quantity, quality, did some feats take effort? Do they have anti-feats? Shown or stated caps? Like a verse with a billion casual 7-C feats having a high effort 7-A feat wouldn't inherently be an outlier, but if those 7-C feats hurt, took effort, etc, it would be an outlier. But like, if a verse had a bunch of 7-C feats, a high end 7-A feat, but also like 5 8-C anti-feats, we'd have to go, well damn, can we excuse these 8-C anti-feats? How much more consistent is this over the 7-C and one off 7-A? Is there more 7-C feats? Are those 7-C feats even straightforward? Like the more unconventional a feat, the more likely it might be subject to inflation even if accidental beyond what's intended, and inversely is the 8-C feats straightforward, blatant, are the REALLY anti-feats or is there context to excuse them, etc.

There's a fuckton going into play beyond "uhm big number fellas?". No shit you'd need not just one feat for a hyper massive pretty inconsistent verse to get a rating.

So like, do you want a downgrade?
I'm personally fine with excusing the fucktrillion 9-B or 9-A feats because I can only think of like one or two that aren't omega hyper casual feats.

Which is another thing to factor in, when there's a bunch of feats on EVERY tier really, including casual AND anti-feat ones, such as Bows getting his shit rocked by like a 7-C blast, but also casually doing like a 7-B feat, but also getting hurt by like an 8-B thing, but also doing a 6-C feat, etc. This shit becomes pretty nuanced. If ya'll want to composite Mario, you need to accept getting a "fair" tier for him while factoring ime the billion caveats, anti-feats, casual feats, caps, high ends, etc isn't just "damn one feat let's go".

man lets not do this again this has been explained to yall genuinely too many times, just stop pushing out this defeatist mindset like goons are out to get yall when Armor has numerous times explained his reasoning. Literally why try and vilify it and stir up drama

I'm not vilifying anything nor am I arguing for a downgrade; all I'm doing is using common sense here and wondering what changed. Since we're talking about consistency here, it wouldn't make sense to keep a character or so at a tier with very little feats that yield results in that area, would it? There's only 2 6-C feats compared to all the other feats that yield results lower than that; if we can downgrade a verse to a tier based on ONLY ONE feat, why can't we upgrade it with just one feat?

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

I'd post the funny Snake gif but I'd probably get reported and banned over a meme.

Depends on what the gif says but saying this seems so victim mentality lmfao nobody is out for you, like at all, like ok? Whats the point of mentioning that.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The **** are you getting on my ass for dude, shit ain't my CRT. Be happy I said I'd be fine with an upgrade as long as like 3ish or so feats get brought forth, in which pretty sure that's already been done so why the complaining, to me, I never even MADE a Mario downgrade before.
But yeah, actually.

I'm not really doing any of that, I'm just pointing out that with how the downgrade went, it's clear we don't actually care about consistency. You seem to, thank goodness, but that's not everyone

 

[Omnificence]

I'm not really doing any of that, I'm just pointing out that with how the downgrade went, it's clear we don't actually care about consistency. You seem to, thank goodness, but that's not everyone

Yeah, like I said, we only used one calculation that yielded 6-C for that thread and scaled the entire cast to that. So, why can't we do the same with the High 6-A feat for this thread?

 

[Chariot190]

Depends on what the gif says but saying this seems so victim mentality lmfao nobody is out for you, like at all, like ok? If you're so worried about getting banned over a meme maybe just maybe you wouldnt mention the idea of posting it.

Because it was TOPICAL and MEME bozo.
And I don't care, I've seen dudes banned for less even as a joke, still gonna mention it for those who get it.

I'm not vilifying anything nor am I arguing for a downgrade; all I'm doing is using common sense here and wondering what changed. Since we're talking about consistency here, it wouldn't make sense to keep a character or so at a tier with very little feats that yield results in that area, would it? There's only 2 6-C feats compared to all the other feats that yield results lower than that; if we can downgrade a verse to a tier based on ONLY ONE feat, why can't we upgrade it with just one feat?

There's like, at least 5 I can think, maybe 8 but they ain't calced. I'm putting dudes at gunpoint to throw you dudes a bone so like

Yeah, like I said, we only used one calculation that yielded 6-C for that thread and scaled the entire cast to that. So, why can't we do the same with the High 6-A feat for this thread?

If I HAD to guess, it's because there was ample 7-B or A support?

Mind you, the TIER doesn't actually matter, but the value itself does.

For example, a High 8-C jumping up to 8-A, skipping a whole ass section, isn't that much of an issue compared to a low 9-B, jumping up to high 9-B, even though that IS the same tier, the actual gap is insane. In this example, the former can be as low as like just a lil over 8x, while the former is a gap that can be as high as 50,000x. Which is like the gap between 8-C+ to High 7-C.

Thinking about it in terms tiers instead of values, is misleading as some tiers super small while some extremely huge.

 

[CloverDragon03]

There's like, at least 5 I can think, maybe 8 but they ain't calced. I'm putting dudes at gunpoint to throw you dudes a bone so like

Bro I wanna calc feats why didn't you send me anything

 

[Chariot190]

Bro I wanna calc feats why didn't you send me anything

im frugot

 

[Dalesean027]

I'm putting dudes at gunpoint to throw you dudes a bone so like

This is me btw, I'm dudes

 

[CloverDragon03]

im frugot

Pls send feats :frug:

 

[ShakeResounding]

Thank the Lord.

I'm not a Mario expert so I literally have NO knowledge of good feats to calc. If this leads to more calcs (and a more solidified upgrade) then I'm glad