WAHOOOO! Mario Bros AP Revision/Upgrade! (M&L Brothership Spoilers)

[DaReaperMan]

Huge shout-out to Dalesean. Thank you for your patience in calcing the feat, dude.

I found several other feats but all which typically fall in the high Tier 7 range, so useless here.

If all is well with the High 6-B+ portion of the calc, I can add it to the OP. I assume there are bosses which are able to tank it that would then have Mario scale from being able to defeat the bosses without it. Hopefully this is enough to support a High 6-A rating?

Happened after Paper Jam, so unusable for mainline Mario scaling.

 

[Chariot190]

Hopefully this is enough to support a High 6-A rating?

Not really, mostly because the High 6-A stuff is faulty from the getgo. The cord feat is just kinda ******* weird and at least subject to a bunch of lil fuckys. The ice flower feat we've already went through, it just isn't High 6-A to begin with because why would it only be talking about the surface? Timeframe ultra complicates it too.

But inversely Shadow Queen's feat is actually 6-B (she shakes the whole planet) not 6-C so ig that could be used as support for the High 6-B if someone can figure out a legit reason to scale off her tbh her 6-B feat is like done passively without effort so they probably scale anyway, but the fact remains she shit stomps Mario at that time so need to find a hard reason to scale afterward even if I'm sure Mario scales to her just vibing out. You know how it be, wiki standards and stuff.

 

[Chariot190]

Happened after Paper Jam, so unusable for mainline Mario scaling.

Or that yeah, Jan 2016 vs oct 2016. Mario is stuck in 6-C hell ig.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Or that yeah, Jan 2016 vs oct 2016. Mario is stuck in 6-C hell ig.

It is usable for High 6-B Paper Mario though

so that's something.

 

[Chariot190]

It is usable for High 6-B Paper Mario though

so that's something.

Paper Mario supremacy wins again bby
except that game ******* sucks, big number off shit game feels ******' bad.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Not really, mostly because the High 6-A stuff is faulty from the getgo. The cord feat is just kinda ******* weird and at least subject to a bunch of lil fuckys. The ice flower feat we've already went through, it just isn't High 6-A to begin with because why would it only be talking about the surface? Timeframe ultra complicates it too.

Your forgot the Star Rod feat.
The cord feat also legit happens on-screen so I don't really see the problem with it? Don't see why we couldn't just fix these problems either?

 

[Omegabronic]

Happened after Paper Jam, so unusable for mainline Mario scaling.

HUh, Paper Mario only has 1 base key tho?

 

[koopa3144]

HUh, Paper Mario only has 1 base key tho?

Iirc Paper Mario was supposed to get keys for different games after he was split from the main Mario profile but no one ever worked on it.

 

[Chariot190]

Your forgot the Star Rod feat.
The cord feat also legit happens on-screen so I don't really see the problem with it? Don't see why we couldn't just fix these problems either?

Link the Star Rod feat, it ain't in the OP I think? Also like, Mario doesn't really scale to Star rod normally?
Even IF you go "he can chip damage", you gotta realize, ignoring the fact that's not exactly intentional, that's still Mario dealing FIVE times less damage he normally would.

And good question, i'm not really sure how you'd go about fixing it though, it's not really a math thing but more just how you go about it.

Though either way that still just leaves us back where we were.

HUh, Paper Mario only has 1 base key tho?

If we're assuming he gets stronger over time, which, I've seen lads argue like twenty times literally was proposed in this VERY thread for bonetail yap as an example. Mario having a feat that eclipses his past feats by like 1000-1000000x in a game that happens AFTER a viable scaling point, is super problematic as he almost certainly got stronger between then and when the new feat happened, it'd be like trying to scale Android 20 off Buu because both could mess Goku, even though Goku got a fucktrillion times stronger. Unless Mario's base is universally static and he doesn't get stronger at all, in which case it'd be fine but like, kind of a weird thing to argue for an RPG.

 

[Omegabronic]

Link the Star Rod feat, it ain't in the OP I think? Also like, Mario doesn't really scale to Star rod normally?
Even IF you go "he can chip damage", you gotta realize, ignoring the fact that's not exactly intentional, that's still Mario dealing FIVE times less damage he normally would.

And good question, i'm not really sure how you'd go about fixing it though, it's not really a math thing but more just how you go about it.

Though either way that still just leaves us back where we were.

If we're assuming he gets stronger over time, which, I've seen lads argue like twenty times literally was proposed in this VERY thread for bonetail yap as an example. Mario having a feat that eclipses his past feats by like 1000-1000000x in a game that happens AFTER a viable scaling point, is super problematic as he almost certainly got stronger between then and when the new feat happened, it'd be like trying to scale Android 20 off Buu because both could mess Goku, even though Goku got a fucktrillion times stronger. Unless Mario's base is universally static and he doesn't get stronger at all, in which case it'd be fine but like, kind of a weird thing to argue for an RPG.

Does he have such statements in Color splash tho?

 

[Chariot190]

Does he have such statements in Color splash tho?

Does it even matter, if bro just grows in power over time, that just becomes the default assumption when he suddenly gets better feats above what he was at before. You'd have to assume he suddenly stopped for some reason.

And I mean, yeah? He levels up and gets stronger throughout the game? Just like every other Paper Mario.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Personally I’m for Mario characters getting stronger over time since there’s a lot of situations that either imply or just outright state so, however would all of the time travel plots cause an issue with that? A lot of games involve the present cast interacting significantly with their past selves, such as Partners in Time, two Yoshi’s Island games and a bunch of spin-off games like Mario Kart. I know other verses just ignore the implications time travel plots have on a growing power level, but in the case of Mario it happens so often that it becomes trickier.

 

[Chariot190]

Personally I’m for Mario characters getting stronger over time since there’s a lot of situations that either imply or just outright state so, however would all of the time travel plots cause an issue with that? A lot of games involve the present cast interacting significantly with their past selves, such as Partners in Time, two Yoshi’s Island games and a bunch of spin-off party games like Mario Kart. I know other verses just ignore the implications time travel plots have on a growing power level, but in the case of Mario it happens so often that it becomes trickier.

i mean the actual answer is Mario has an established power for each line of games, Mario & Luigi is pretty hyper consistently within 7-6, while something like New Super is more low 8 and galaxy is like ******* 3-something. We just composite them because they're all canon to each other and try to find a middle ground that works best when really, M&L Mario would beat the shit out of 2D Mario, and Galaxy Mario would take M&L Mario out back. Mario is consistent within subsections of the verse, but can vary widly between them. His power is tuned to the premise and scale of the games in question because no shit, Nintendo don't care about how strong he "should" be, we just don't treat him like that so like, shrug, not much to do. This obviously applies to Time Travel stuff, although Partners is super fucky because Baby Mario would beat the shit out of Superstar Saga Mario at the end of the game, as Baby Mario gets stronger throughout the game too, which directly means Baby Mario > Adult Mario < Also Adult Mario but like a few months later. But like that's just MY opinion rat smoking a cig emoji.png.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Personally I’m for Mario characters getting stronger over time since there’s a lot of situations that either imply or just outright state so, however would all of the time travel plots cause an issue with that? A lot of games involve the present cast interacting significantly with their past selves, such as Partners in Time, two Yoshi’s Island games, a bunch of spin-off party games, etc. I know other verses just ignore the implications time travel plots have on a growing power level, but in the case of Mario it happens so often that it becomes trickier.

For the Yoshi games at least you can kinda argue that the Yoshis in that game are kinda absurdly strong (They can pretty much low diff Baby Bowser until Kamek boosts him and struggle a lot more with adult Bowser, and the babies don't really do much without power ups) but then Partners in Time and various spin offs throw a wrench in that.

 

[Dust_Collector]

i mean the actual answer is Mario has an established power for each line of games, Mario & Luigi is pretty hyper consistently within 7-6, while something like New Super is more low 8 and galaxy is like ******* 3-something. We just composite them because they're all canon to each other and try to find a middle ground that works best when really, M&L Mario would beat the shit out of 2D Mario, and Galaxy Mario would take M&L Mario out back. Mario is consistent within subsections of the verse, but can vary widly between them. His power is tuned to the premise and scale of the games in question because no shit, Nintendo don't care about how strong he "should" be, we just don't treat him like that so like, shrug, not much to do. This obviously applies to Time Travel stuff, although Partners is super fucky because Baby Mario would beat the shit out of Superstar Saga Mario at the end of the game, as Baby Mario gets stronger throughout the game too, which directly means Baby Mario > Adult Mario < Also Adult Mario but like a few months later. But like that's just MY opinion rat smoking a cig emoji.png.

It's time we use that Miyamota statement of the Mario cast being a troupe to give them the varies rating they deserve

 

[Armorchompy]

For the Yoshi games at least you can kinda argue that the Yoshis in that game are kinda absurdly strong (They can pretty much low diff Baby Bowser until Kamek boosts him and struggle a lot more with adult Bowser, and the babies don't really do much without power ups) but then Partners in Time and various spin offs throw a wrench in that.

Maybe the bros just really fell off during puberty. They've never made a game about Toddler Luigi because he'd be invincible

 

[Dust_Collector]

True

 

[IDK3465]

Hold on- will we still use the cord-throwing feat or not? And if not, why is it unusable? I personally saw no issues with the calc myself, but idk.

 

[Mephistus]

Mario dealing FIVE times less damage he normally would.

This is probably fair since mario's storing up energy from one attack each time? Min to just get through the barrier is like 3 charges for "chip damage" up to outright defeating bowser in that state so x4 less than base if someone wants to get that footage Still is 6-a ig or just give him a charged key

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Link the Star Rod feat, it ain't in the OP I think? Also like, Mario doesn't really scale to Star rod normally?
Even IF you go "he can chip damage", you gotta realize, ignoring the fact that's not exactly intentional, that's still Mario dealing FIVE times less damage he normally would.

Here it be. It's really high into High 6-A (Only around 10 Exatons below 5-C) so downscaling from it should still be High 6-A.
There's also the Paper Mario getting stronger every game stuff, so this is technically the weakest Paper Mario, kinda.

 

[Chariot190]

Here it be. It's really high into High 6-A (Only around 10 Exatons below 5-C) so downscaling from it should still be High 6-A.
There's also the Paper Mario getting stronger every game stuff, so this is technically the weakest Paper Mario, kinda.

Yeah so like, it being almost moon level ain't a good thing when the best support ya got is 100000x lower.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Yeah so like, it being almost moon level ain't a good thing when the best support ya got is 100000x lower.

Some Tiers do be really big, and the cord feat is only around x2500 lower, which is a lot but ehhh.

 

[Chariot190]

Some Tiers do be really big, and the cord feat is only around x2500 lower, which is a lot but ehhh.

I mean yeah, but it has nothing to do with tiers. Something like a High 8-C being buffed to 8-A off a lone feat (less than a 10x gap and a whole tier skipped) would be more acceptable compared to a low 9-B being upgraded to still 9-B+ (25000-50000x gap).