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And you just explained why gameplay might be subject to fuckery.
And if you go that route, he's literally weaker than Star Rod Hallway buff.
Being stronger in general, and being stronger than the buff, are two very different things.
You also seem to be forgetting that Bows himself, like, in the hallway, gets depowered? Of COURSE him getting stronger innately (several times stronger in fact) would be a huge issue when Mario previously just neged his buff and kicked his dick in.
Yeah? Except the Star Spirits are what's being framed and stated to be the issue, NOT Mario.
Mario getting stronger from the start of the game, doesn't mean anything at all, he can still get stronger and fail to overcome the Star Rod amp, which is exactly what the game implicates.
No because that isn't at all what is said, stated or shown.
This argument legit only works if you assume Mario DIDN'T use Star Beam in the hallway, but he did.
Even with the most generous possible assumption possible, in that the innate buff + Star Rod, makes him just ever so slightly above Star Beam and thus negates it, that still doesn't mean Mario can break through the invul when the invul in question is stated time and time again to be the issue, and time and time again Star Beam is noted to be an issue, and the innate Koop amp isn't problematic and is actually WEAKER than Hallway Bows without its own Star Rod amp, which as the game outright states, the Star Beam DOES work on Hallway Bows, so even IF you argue PP Koops > Hallway Star Rod, that doesn't check out because he's not only statistically weaker, but over double, and like holy shit I could go on but.... You are literally undermining the whole premise of the game at this point?
I hate this so much....
Why are you ignoring the entire premise of the game and absolutely everything they say? I don't care if Mario just so happens to deal 5x less damage he normally would because you grinded to max level or have the best items in the game and slapped on a 2x double badge or this or that to deal 1 damage.
The game makes it explicitly clear he's invincible, they act like he is, and they act and talk like the only way he could be hurt was by using Star Beam to remove that invulnerability with half the Partners even outright saying they have no idea what they can do if Star Beam doesn't work. If they could just punch through it, why in the world would they instantly go "well shit guess we're ****** and nothing we can do huh?".
I'm not here to argue could be, would be, etc. I want actual proof, what's happening here is blatant handwaving of not just the narrative, intent and so forth, but even the FOLLOWING dialogue.
They make it clear the problem is Star Beam, not Mario himself. The Star Beam is why he isn't truly invincible. When the Star Beam doesn't work, they instantly just assume they're helpless and can't do anything solely becaue they can't remove the invul.
There's nothing to argue, this is legit like saying 9-B Deku Link can technically hurt Majora in an alt method of the fight so he scales even though the game also says the only way to beat him is FD Link and that's the canon way he won.
Just because you can do a neat thing in gameplay, doesn't mean anything if the yap and lore says otherwise.
Except, given you yourself actively used stats as an argument, PP Bows only has a def of 2, which is 2x lower than Hallway Star Rod Koops. Even IF you argue it's the innate buff + Star Rod together that pushed him over the edge, that'd only give him a def of like 6, which can still be hit through, yet the game frames that as totally not possible in the dialogue and even just ends that phase immediately.
I do not GIVE a shit about them tanking stuff, I am arguing the invul, I said that.
This argument doesn't even work, what comparable foes? You can one shot like any bosses if you grind to lv 99 and use all the best stuff too? Why are we assuming high nd damage for Koops but normal intended damage for other bosses? Why do bosses scale at all?
Using the same logic every boss is fodder.
And that's ignoring Mario gets stronger as you yourself is arguing, why would early game stuff wrap around to how it works end game?
5x AP gap could kill you irl. That's like the gap between you and Prime Mike Tyson, and that would kill you in one punch.
And no, you're kinda cherry picking dude, you wanna use stats and gameplay, but then ignore it come phase 2?
Because they LITERALLY talk as if the only way you got past him is Star Beam negating the invul so you can kick his ass normally, they talk like that's the sole reason, and when Star Beam no longer works in phase 2 they talk like that's the only thing they had that did anything.
And that's ignoring the entire plot of the game was "Bows is invincible, go collect dudes to uninvincible him".
Your OWN partners ain't gonna overglaze him dude. And again, right here, you're taking gameplay, yet gameplay would suggest in Phase 2 he only has a def of 6, his +2 and then the +3 Star Rod buff. But that ain't how it works. Why the picking and choosing?
Doesn't matter, you're just proving the point, just because the game gives you an alt method, doesn't mean it's intended. We don't use non-canonical ways to beat super bosses that evidently isn't reflective of the lore based on every line of text as legitimate scaling.
As said, it's no different how you could use the weak Deku Link to kill Majora, despite every line of text and lore going "lmao nah he'd be obliterfucked if looked at funny".
You're conflating gameplay and the actual story. And taking the hyper impractical method that I'm pretty sure just exists as a leniant way to save on FP if you absolutely must as legit scaling.
Except, that isn't how it's framed, they frame and yap about how invulnerable he is with the Star Rod amp.
I don't because they say he's basically invincible, 99% of attacks don't even deal 1 damage, it only works with super high damage attacks, plus the strongest items, plus a 2x attack badge, while charged and damage boosted and even then they only deal like 1 damage, the following text in the cutscenes and following fight all but say the only thing making him not invincible is the Star Beam, and with that gone, he's untouchable, which is supported by YOUR allies' reactions (including Watt, and she can cheese the hallway fight) saying without the Star Beam, they're kinda clueless.
Nobody is saying he isn't stronger, being stronger and hitting through the invulnerability magic wand hax, are not the same thing.
Except it isn't, you're arguing Mario can just punch through it.
Except you are because the buff is the same between both fights. He just gos "lmao Star Rod time". He's innately stronger, maybe that small innateness pushed him over the edge to being above Star Spirits, but that still don't mean shit if he's like a +1 to the base 100 vs 100 going on.
And if you take gameplay stats, he's literally weaker than Star Rod Hallway Bows.
You really shouldn't. The NEARLY part is because Mario has the Star Beam. Kammy not even 3 seconds later doubles down on the Star Beam being problematic, but with that out of the way, Koops will be completely invincible.
If Mario could just punch through it every turn, there wouldn't be a nearly invincible, he wouldn't be invincible at all?
Like I can not stress enough how absolutely generous this interpretation is when the whole game gets built around this and everyone in the following cutscene notes his nigh-invincibility is due to Star Beam and if that gets negged, he's just flatout untouchable now.
Like, my dude, some of your very own arguments don't work with each other or counterintuitive to other arguments you made, and end of the day they all still just kind of ignore the plot and dialogue.
Like look dude, I don't want interpretation or "well in theory" arguments, I just want a hard statement at this point. If the very fact it can even be argued to this extent exists, it means it ain't solid enough from the getgo. I'd argue it isn't even that and doesn't make sense because the game acknowledges what happened and says the Star Beam is this, that, yadda yadda but ya know how it is.
