Which for some reason wears out the power-ups in the M&L series. No, I don't consider that an argument against the Bros; in fact I personally call BS on that issue because why does that not happen in the platformers?
What are you talking about? There's moves where they do exactly that in M&L with zero problems? Either way, what are you talking about, it's accepted.
How is pointing out dumb VBW logic being obtuse? I'm just saying, if Range and AoE are different like we both know, why the hell do our Wiki profiles treat them like they're the same dang thing, i.e. the Range section of each profile?
Because you're using it as an argument all while noting how it's wrong, all while ignoring the fact we DON'T actually do that. A recent example would literally be the Metroid CRT, the range is solely for projectile distance, not AOE of things like Samus' explosions. I even offered to cover that and it was just chalked up as "eh it dont matter nobody it's common sense", yet, here we are, apparently.
Yeah, I'm still a bit salty over that part. I had a guy coming to the rescue with a whole bunch of scans in another thread and people's arguments against the scans were like "Durr, use profiles only." I'm with you on that part; what IS up with that?
Profiles as a baseline. Obviously, we should adhere to them, but there comes a point where the profiles can just be wrong and acting like it isn't true is just blatant ignorance.
An example, did you know Frieren doesn't have telekinesis listed? An ability she blatantly demonstrably has, and is even the REASON for her Class 50 LS? So would we ignore Frieren can levitate shit with magic in a match? No because that'd be ******* dumb as shit
for reference im working on a CRT for shit she's missing but that's like a week off, besides the point.
Except there's hardly a scale to work with. We don't know the electrical attributes of Amps, Hotheads (which are apparently electrical), and Luigi's Thunder Hands.
It can harm enemies and the Bros' who can withstand shit like thunderstorm level voltage and ampere or weather manip that can change the whole climate.
The only reference point we have is "Can so and so resist electricity that harms things that electricity typically couldn't harm in the first place?" (in this case, we're pitting two characters that can resist ghost-harming electricity against characters who have electricity that can harm ghosts and rocks) and "how well do the bros stack up against lightning" (not very well since the Lightning Bolt item, which summons lightning from the sky, is consistently superior to a good chunk of electrical entities in the series).
As above. If Luigi's lightning can fry something that can shrug off like a billion volts, it just upscales. It's the same deal as Samus' Plasma Beam upscaling literal nukes, given literal nuke heat can be shrugged off yet Plasma can vaporize shit or hurt even her.
This is just basic scaling. Also, "ghost harming electricity", is JUST NPI my dude. It's a legit non-argument.
If you do want numbers, then the same electricity Panty and Stocking withstood also
made their chimp lawyer smarter, which... Neurons go from -70 millivolts (don't ask me why it's like that; I'm not that good of an electrician) to around 30 to 60 millivolts:
https://socialsci.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Psychology/Biological_Psychology/Biopsychology_(OERI)_-_DRAFT_for_Review/05:_Communication_within_the_Nervous_System/5.01:_Neurons_and_their_Basic_Functions
Which a chimpanzee brain has 6-7 billion neurons:
https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2016/08...ed-prefrontal-region-hallmark-of-human-brain/
So if activating 1 neuron from rest state is worth 100 millivolts (going from -70 to 30 millivolts), then an electrical strike that would activate all of them en-masse would be worth at the very most 600 megavolts, and that's assuming it's a complete Lucy situation (for reference, that movie is about a woman who can tap into 100% of her brain; yes, they played off the "we only use 10% of our brain" myth). Lightning itself can go up to 300 megavolts:
And yes, I checked the source.
My brother in christ it does NOT work that way.
First off neurons, while they DO have resting membrane potential of around -70 millivolts. When they fire (action potential), it spikes to about to about +30 to +60 millivolts, depending on the neuron type. What happens is the change in voltage across the membrane during an AP is about 100mv (shifts from -70mv to +30mv), HOWEVER, this doesnt mean that activating a nueron "uses" 100mv of energy. It's strictly a measure of electrical potential, not energy or power. calcing the voltage needed to activate all neurons in a chimpanzee's brain is flawed too because voltage and energy are not interchangeable, MV is a potential difference, not an actual meusure of the energy or charge to activate said neurons, while the activation of neurons involves the movement of ions (like sodium and potassium) across the membrane, driven by concentration gradients, NOT external electricity.
You're arguing that activating all neurons would involve 600 megavolts (based on 100 mv per neuron x 6 billion neurons?) misunderstands how neurons work completely dude, voltage is not additive across neurons, with each membrane potential operating within about 100mv range. The actual amount of eletrical energy is tiny compared to lightning and a lightning's energy and voltage are distributed over an entirely different medium and scale.
You claim lightning can go up to 300 megavolts, which, sure, yep that's true, but the claim that activating all neurons in a chimpanzee's brain would equate to 600 megavolts misunderstands the nature of voltage, neuron activation, and energy as a whole.
If a singular electrical charge were to activate every neuron in a chimpanzee's brain simultaneously, that charge wouldnt be measured in terms of a singular, cumulative voltage like "600 megavolts" my dude, instead it'd be dependent on the current (amperes) and the energy required to depolarize the neurons.
a chimpanzee brain has approximately 6-7 billion neurons.
a neuron's action potential involves a potential change of about 100 millivolts (mV).
the energy to generate an action potential comes from the movement of ions (sodium and potassium) across the neuronal membrane. This movement consumes ATP (the brain's energy) rather than being directly powered by external electricity.
To force every neuron to fire at once, you would need to 1. overcome the resting potential of -70 mv for each neuron then deliver this energy evenly across the brain, which the tissue has an approximate resistivity of 100 ohmmeters and the amperes would need to overcome that fyi, which is kinda relevant as you'll see below. The charge to depolarize a neuron is proportional to its capacitance, obv need the microfarad per square centimeter of membrane, but the total neuronal membrane area of would be about 2 hundreds of square meters, you would need at least coulombs of charge, depending on how efficiently the charge is delivered but we'll get there.
I did some quick (it wasnt quick) math, to calculate the voltage required to incite all the action potentials in a chimp's brain.
The formula that relates energy (E - joules), charge (Q - couloumbs or whatever tf theyre called), and voltage which is gonna be (V). So V = E / Q, which should be obvious. But then I remembered this is an external zap so we need res, the current and other shit too so...
First we get joules to fire every neuron, which is easy, just calc the total combined energy required to activate all neurons per required for a single action potential. the energy needed for one neuron to fire is like 10x10^-15 joules (this is in the Femto range fyi, funny haha berserk meme). The number of neurons in a chimpanzee brain is 6x10^9 (so like 6 billion).
(6x10^9) x (10x10^-15) = 60x10^-6 joules, which is ******* like 0.06 joules.... Well anyway that's (E).
Next C1. Capacitance for a single neuron is approximately 1 μF/cm2 apparently, which equals 10^-6 f/cm2 (farads per square centimeter ig). The total capacitance depends on the combined surface area of all neurons (this is a simplification but still).
C1 = A x capneuron
As said, total membrane area of neurons is like 2x10^6 cm2 (about 200 square meters) and capneuron is cap per unit area (10^-6 f/cm2)
C1 = (2x10^6) x (10^-6) = 2f
That's C1, but we need C1 for Q. The total charge used the total capacitance and the voltage change during an action potential, which is approximately ΔV = 100 mv (as explained above, it's like -70 to +30 mv shift per action potential per neuron), which equates to 0.1v. Q = C1 x ΔV
Q = 2f (C1) x 0.1v = 0.2c.
Now we can calc the last bit, which is V = E / Q.
0.06 joules / 0.2 charge = 0.3 volts.
But we need to account resistance of brain tissue.
First is res, where R = rho x (L / A).
Resistivity (rho) is 100 ohmm (as mentioned above)
Thickness (L) is 0.1m (chimp brain thickness, this is about an average)
Cross-sectional area (A) is 0.00785 m2 (effective area)
Which put together, 100 x (0.1 / 0.00785) = 1273.8853503184713376 ohms.
Next is current, whihc is I = Q / t.
Q is Q, 0.2 coulombs, we got it above already, t is timeframe, which in the video is like 3 seconds.
I = 0.2 / 3 = 0.0667 amperes (or 66.7 milliamperes).
NOW, we can calculate the voltage externally using Ohm’s Law, which is V = I x R
V = 0.0667 (I) x 1273.8853503184713376 (Res) = 84.96815286624203821792 volts for an external voltage for a 3-second zap needed to fire off every neuron in a chimp brain, more or less. As an fyi, this is the higher end.
Which is to say, wtf are you talking about dude? I assume the problem is you assume it's additive? But voltage is a local property that measures the potential difference across a specific membrane (such as neurons in this yap). Which while -70 to +30 is correct, you need to remember that neurons do not electrically connect their voltages in a way that adds them together. A brain-wide activation of neurons doesn't fuse their individual voltages together but instead it simultaneously creates many
independent 100 mv changes across billions of neurons. If, for example, you shocked every neuron in the brain, tthe maximum voltage difference across any single neuron’s membrane is still only 100mv, ya don't multiply that shit my dude.
Now, what DOES get multiplied, is the energy and charge, because you are doing work on each one for the energy, and the charge scales because each neuron’s membrane capacitance contributes to the total charge movement. It is from THERE you get voltage, which as calculated is ludicrously low of like 0.03, which reflects the energy to charge ratio but doesn’t stack neuron by neuron.
Now, a single electrical strike applied voltage would not directly equate to the total 100 mv changes across billions of neurons. Instead, it would force the brain’s neurons to depolarize en masse because of the rapid redistribution of ions. If an external voltage source were applied, what actually ****** matters is whether it generates enough CURRENT to trigger the threshold potential of all neurons, rather than stacking the voltage of each neuron.
So, uh, sorry my dude but that's just yap, it scientifically doesn't work like nor is the math behind the calc correct.
Btw this is ignoring that ISN'T how intelligence works, firing off every neuron wouldn't make a chimp smarter, would probably kill it actually, but ignoring even that, intelligence isn't just about neurons firing, in fact doing so would just be akin to a seizure.
So yeah, for reference the charge is actually really high, like half that of a lightning strike.
ANYWAY, yeah no that isn't helping, literally better off just using the electric chair as a baseline given that seems to be the case in the scene? Which is about 1700 to 2400 volts, with 5-10 amp.
