VSBATTLE WIKI REVISION: SPEED BLITZING (PART II; FASTER THAN THE EYE)

[Arnoldstone18]

This is a continuation of these two threads.


As we all know. There are different types of speed blitzing feats in fiction. I will be dedicating 3 threads to discuss three types: Perception blitzing, Faster than Eye can Track, Reaction Blitzing. I see these are the most common types that appear in fiction. Welcome to part 2. I will be continue working to expand our FTE standards.

Earlier, I made a thread about blitzing perception entirely in such a way that the object appears as though it were invisible to the observer. I wanted to post part 2 weeks ago, but @DontTalkDT's thread kind of halted the progress of the first one. The thread isn't complete, but after saying all I needed to say on his thread to address his concerns, I have decided to continue and leave it up to staff members to evaluate that thread.

FASTER THAN THE EYE

Latencies​

This refers to the time ift takes the eye to begin movement. The range for humans is somewhere close to human reaction times.

Latencies: 200-250ms
Human reaction: 250-300ms

Therefore reaction time calcs will surfice for eye reaction time

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The issue stems from when the eye is able to initially react to the abrupt acceleration of the object before the object is difficult to keep in the center or field of view.

Faster than the moving eye​

Eye movement is also known as saccade.

During a saccade, the brain negates perception between eye movements, so we don't feel our eye moving. When something moves faster than a saccade, the observer often finds it hard to keep track of it with their eyes. The eye just isn't able to out-speed the object to keep it in the center of view.

For feats similar to "I can't focus my eyes on him", the speed of a saccade can be used to calculate how fast those objects are. This can also act as the default alternative for feats that do not qualify for perception blitzing timeframe (0.002s) standards from the last CRT.

According to this article: The higher the angle of an eye turn, the higher the speed the eye turns. If the eye turns 15 degrees, it turns at the speed of 300-350°/s while a 35-degree turn turns at a speed of 475-525°/s.

To find the speed at which an object moved using any of this information would require a LITTLE bit of calculus. So uhhh... Im not even going to bother teaching you guys if you have 0 experience, The name of the formula I will use to find the speed of the object from both eye turning angles is known as the Lighthouse Formula. So if you wanna know how the formula is derived, then go see the first clip that pops up on Youtube. It should explain it better lol. This formula is from a topic under a concept called "relative rates". Don't worry its easy, just use the formula below:

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dx/dt = y*(dθ/dt)/cos^2θ​

Y = distance object is from the eye
θ = angle (degrees); default is 15 degrees or 35 degrees.
dx/dt = linear speed of object; what we are looking for.
dθ/dt = speed of eye (saccade); default given depending on the angle chosen

The only variable that needs some kind of pixel scaling or ang sizing is Y

So what do you guys think the default angle should be? 15 degrees or 35 degrees.

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15 Degree Saccade Speed:

Formula for FTE speed of objects 1 meter away:
Speed: y * (dθ/dt) / cos^2θ
For θ = 15 degrees:
1 * (300) / cos^2(15) = 300 / 0.9659 ≈ 310.85 m/s
1 * (350) / cos^2(15) = 350 / 0.9659 ≈ 362.29 m/s

Examples of Objects That Have to Be Fast Enough at Certain Distances:

- For FTE speed of objects 5 meters away:
- Using 310.85 m/s: 310.85 m/s * 5 = 1554.25 m/s
- Using 362.29 m/s: 362.29 m/s * 5 = 1811.45 m/s

- For FTE speed of objects 10 meters away:
- Using 310.85 m/s: 310.85 m/s * 10 = 3108.5 m/s
- Using 362.29 m/s: 362.29 m/s * 10 = 3622.9 m/s

- For FTE speed of objects 50 meters away:
- Using 310.85 m/s: 310.85 m/s * 50 = 15542.5 m/s
- Using 362.29 m/s: 362.29 m/s * 50 = 18114.5 m/s

- For FTE speed of objects 100 meters away:
- Using 310.85 m/s: 310.85 m/s * 100 = 31085 m/s
- Using 362.29 m/s: 362.29 m/s * 100 = 36229 m/s

- For FTE speed of objects 1 kilometer away:
- Using 310.85 m/s: 310.85 m/s * 1000 = 310850 m/s
- Using 362.29 m/s: 362.29 m/s * 1000 = 362290 m/s



35 Degree Saccade Speed:

- Formula for FTE speed of objects 1 meter away:
- Speed: y * (dθ/dt) / cos^2θ
- For θ = 35 degrees:
- 1 * (475) / cos^2(35) = 475 / 0.2224 ≈ 2133.25 m/s
- 1 * (525) / cos^2(35) = 525 / 0.2224 ≈ 2356.40 m/s

Examples of Objects That Have to Be Fast Enough at Certain Distances:

- For FTE speed of objects 5 meters away:
- Using 2133.25 m/s: 2133.25 m/s * 5 = 10,666.25 m/s
- Using 2356.40 m/s: 2356.40 m/s * 5 = 11,782 m/s

- For FTE speed of objects 10 meters away:
- Using 2133.25 m/s: 2133.25 m/s * 10 = 21,332.5 m/s
- Using 2356.40 m/s: 2356.40 m/s * 10 = 23,564 m/s

- For FTE speed of objects 50 meters away:
- Using 2133.25 m/s: 2133.25 m/s * 50 = 106,662.5 m/s
- Using 2356.40 m/s: 2356.40 m/s * 50 = 117,820 m/s

- For FTE speed of objects 100 meters away:
- Using 2133.25 m/s: 2133.25 m/s * 100 = 213,325 m/s
- Using 2356.40 m/s: 2356.40 m/s * 100 = 235,640 m/s

- For FTE speed of objects 1 kilometer away:
- Using 2133.25 m/s: 2133.25 m/s * 1000 = 2,133,250 m/s
- Using 2356.40 m/s: 2356.40 m/s * 1000 = 2,356,400 m/s

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Issues:

Depending on the distance between the object and the eye,

Proposed Guidelines

1. If the object is moving around the observer roughly in a circle, then its speed is comparable to the speed of the saccade instead. This calculation is for objects that move in linear paths.
2. Utilize the Pythagorean theorem if the object moved at an angle away from the horizontal path it was supposed to follow so that you can find its speed as though it moved at an exact horizontal path.
3. A character moving within a saccade might make it seem like it is teleporting because the brain suppresses perception during eye movement so that we don't sense the motion of the eye. However, if the eye is fixated on the object and it appears that way, then the feat qualifies for a higher form of speed shown here.

Feel free to help me improve the guidelines too.

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Smooth Pursuit

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When the eye tracks movements, it moves smoothly while fixated on the object. This is known as smooth pursiut.The speed of smooth pursuit is 30 deg/sec. If an object moves too fast for the eye to track smoothly,the eye would need catch-up saccades. So when someone moves so fast that the eye can't track it at all, that implies that the object is faster than even those catch up saccades. So the formula above is still suitable for Faster-Than-Eye movement.

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TL;DR

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• When eye reaction is blitzed use human reaction time.
• When eye movemen is blitzed use formula: dx/dt = y*(dθ/dt)/cos^2θ

Y = distance object is from the eye
θ = angle (degrees); default is 15 degrees or 35 degrees.
dx/dt = linear speed of object; what we are looking for.
dθ/dt = speed of eye (saccade); default given depending on the angle chosen

note: smooth pursuit only occurs if the eye can easily track movement and the formula above is used to determine the lowest speed to match the fastest eye movements trying to track it. "At least" must be used considering characters moving faster than these speeds to be higher than the speed needed to match the fastest eye movements.

Agree


Neutral


Disagree​

 

[DontTalkDT]

For feats similar "I can't keep track of his movements", the speed of a saccade can be used to calculate how fast those objects are.

Why would this statement reference saccades in particular? That seems like an overly specific way to interpret it.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Why would this statement reference saccades in particular?

You know, when we are fixated on something, it's on our fovea (center of view). So if something moves so fast that you can't get your eye fixated on it, it means that its faster than the eye can move towards it (saccade).

Can you think of another statement that's similar?

 

[DontTalkDT]

You know, when we are fixated on something, it's on our fovea (center of view). So if something moves so fast that you can't get your eye fixated on it, it means that its faster than the eye can move towards it (saccade).

Can you think of another statement that's similar?

I mean, for a start, to focus on something also requires the eyes to focus. That's pupil stuff.
But, in general, I don't think "I can't keep track of his movements" is necessarily equivalent to "I can't focus my eyes on him".
Like, if a lot of things happen in a video game it can be hard to keep track of it all, even if you can properly see all of it, no? Keeping track of things is in part a mental process.

Also, saccades refer to small particularly fast eye movements. It seems questionable that only those would be involved in tracking something. Smooth pursuit for instance also seems like a strong candidate. Also, consider latencies.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I mean, for a start, to focus on something also requires the eyes to focus. That's pupil stuff.
But, in general, I don't think "I can't keep track of his movements" is necessarily equivalent to "I can't focus my eyes on him".
Like, if a lot of things happen in a video game it can be hard to keep track of it all, even if you can properly see all of it, no? Keeping track of things is in part a mental process.

Yeah youre right.

Will switch to "I can't focus my eyes on him"

Also, saccades refer to small particularly fast eye movements. It seems questionable that only those would be involved in tracking something. Smooth pursuit for instance also seems like a strong candidate. Also, consider latencies.

Kk

looking into it. I'll let you know when I have updated the OP.

 

[DMUA]

I think this might be even more niche than flicker fusion, if I'm to really think about it

Like, I get it's designed specifically for a straight trajectory but is it even physically possible for someone to be able to simultaneously react to something, while also being unable to rotate their eye fast enough to track it and thus making it genuinely FTE?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I haven’t finished updating the OP btw, I was thinking of bumping this when I was done. Will get back to ya later.