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Vinsmoke Sanji VS Charlotte Katakuri (15-6-0)

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Eminiteable

Eminiteable

He/Him
7,401
6,631
Sanji starts in base but has access to the Raid Suit if he needs it.

Late Whole Cake island Saga to Early Wano Kuni Saga Sanji is being used
Starting Distance: 10 meters
Starting Location: Mirro-World
The Fight takes place during Whole Cake Island but Niji gave him the Raid Suit early

Vinsmoke Sanji: 15 (KingTempest, XDragnoir, MonkeyOfLife, TauanVictor, KlinkyGrape, joshpiece, Lgamer099_99, ZoroNotZolo, Shizuka, Bernkastelll, NomsNoms, FluffyCreatureZ, Vizer04, StrawHatArslan, DiedrichYagami)
Charlotte Katakuri: 6 (CinCameron20, Shadyboi0, WrongIdea21, Damage3245, Rez, Popted2)
Incon: 0

l74YbBo.png
 
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Sanji has an AP advantage but Katakuri is not far off.
Katakuri has a Kenbun advantage for future sight but Sanji has a better range and potency.
Sanji is gonna struggle with his devil fruit.
Katakuri is gonna struggle with his speed amps and stealth.
Incon for now
 
Sanji's got better sensory powers by far, but Katakuri's got better future-sight.

Sanji's problem for me right now is the question: can he use Diable Jambe in his raid suit?

Katakuri's technically got superior speed, and this on top of Future-Sight would make it tough for Sanji to land hits on him. The funny part is that Sanji's invisibility might actually work well since we see Katakuri's sensory powers as being quite underwhelming, and he couldn't tell what SM Luffy was doing until he focused.

Sanji still has to discover how Katakuri's trick works.

Katakuri's Awakening would turn the floor, ceiling and walls into mochi, and even though Sanji can fly w/ and w/out his suit, he'll be attacked from all directions while also trying to find a way to get hits in on Katakuri.

It's weird to me, but without Awakening, Katakuri could actually lose this... but with it, he should be able to win mid-high difficulty since he's got superior speed (massive ? mark here on that one tbf), future-sight, and superior Armament.

Also, it just occurred to me... imagine if Sanji was about to deploy his raid suit, but Katakuri swipes the canister away and hides it? That's another potential thing that can't be ignored since he DID something like this in-character when Luffy was about to use Bound Man
 
Going based on scaling justifications, Katakuri > Sanji in speed since Sanji only gets scaling from dodging an attack from Katakuri (at a great distance, mind you).

Raid-Suit might make Sanji physically faster than Katakuri, and even if we grant him that, Katakuri's fast enough to react to Gear 4th forms (via future-sight) and evade them. His passive ability allowed him to have an edge over BM Luffy for an extended period, so I don't see Sanji reliably landing blows on Katakuri, even with the suit.

Still no where near an easy fight for Katakuri though, as Sanji will keep going until his body can't move.
 
Well, i really doubt speed will be a problem for any side but Sanji's feat vs Kata was really casual so no Sanji isn't < Kata in speed.

KingTempest said:
Nvm Sanji’s Kenbun is better, Sanji gg
Click to expand...
When you say Kenbu you are talking about FS or just Kenbu in general?


The real question is how Sanji will wear the RS, the best he can do is get some distance using DJ's speed boost (wearing it mid-air also helps, the mirror world isn't big enough for this to be a perfect solution but at this distance evading Kata's attacks until he can wear the RS wouldn't be a problem).

If Sanji is able to wear the RS then i can't see Kata taking the edge:
  1. RS doesn't need any concentration or energy to increase his Dura so Sanji can focus in how to deal with the pseudo-logia trick and other things;
  2. We have seen Sanji changing Kata's future once so he wouldn't be totally unable to bypass the pseudo-logia as it relies in seeing what will happen;
  3. Add superior speed and invisibility (to take advantage of Kata's low level sensory) and Sanji will be able to consistently hit Kata
  4. The offensive/defensive (not the AP/Dura stats) is also in Sanji's side, Kata needs to either block with haki or "trick" Sanji's attacks, both methods aren't perfect, while Kata's attacks can be evaded (speed+invi+fs+flight) and blocking isn't going to drain as much for Sanji as it will to Kata
If we can't agree with Sanji ability/inability to wear the RS it's pretty much a incon, if we actually agree to take a side it's pretty much the one who will win.

Also, i have no idea why he wouldn't be able to use DJ with the RS, do we have any statement saying it's impossible or something like that?
 
XDragnoir said:
Well, i really doubt speed will be a problem for any side but Sanji's feat vs Kata was really casual so no Sanji isn't < Kata in speed.


When you say Kenbu you are talking about FS or just Kenbu in general?


The real question is how Sanji will wear the RS, the best he can do is get some distance using DJ's speed boost (wearing it mid-air also helps, the mirror world isn't big enough for this to be a perfect solution but at this distance evading Kata's attacks until he can wear the RS wouldn't be a problem).

If Sanji is able to wear the RS then i can't see Kata taking the edge:
  1. RS doesn't need any concentration or energy to increase his Dura so Sanji can focus in how to deal with the pseudo-logia trick and other things;
  2. We have seen Sanji changing Kata's future once so he wouldn't be totally unable to bypass the pseudo-logia as it relies in seeing what will happen;
  3. Add superior speed and invisibility (to take advantage of Kata's low level sensory) and Sanji will be able to consistently hit Kata
  4. The offensive/defensive (not the AP/Dura stats) is also in Sanji's side, Kata needs to either block with haki or "trick" Sanji's attacks, both methods aren't perfect, while Kata's attacks can be evaded (speed+invi+fs+flight) and blocking isn't going to drain as much for Sanji as it will to Kata
If we can't agree with Sanji ability/inability to wear the RS it's pretty much a incon, if we actually agree to take a side it's pretty much the one who will win.

Also, i have no idea why he wouldn't be able to use DJ with the RS, do we have any statement saying it's impossible or something like that?
Click to expand...
Feel like if it's katakuri that's post luffy vs katakuri fight vs sanji... It would be incon... But if it was before the fight between kata and luffy, Sanji would win.
XDragnoir said:
When you say Kenbu you are talking about FS or just Kenbu in general?
Click to expand...
In general.
XDragnoir said:
Add superior speed and invisibility (to take advantage of Kata's low level sensory) and Sanji will be able to consistently hit Kata
Click to expand...
What do you mean Kata's low lvl sensory?
 
Eminiteable said:
Katakuri was unable to sense flampe from not that far away
Click to expand...
Same with luffy.... Of course he won't sense her shotting while fighting someone who has near the same observation haki as him...
Eminiteable said:
, he also struggled with Snakeman's attacks that changed trajectory.
Click to expand...
It accelerated and kept on stretching which he didn't know was going to happen since he is focusing on defending and observing luffy that's in front of him... plus luffy has observation haki... This is the point where luffy was the closest to katakuri's observation haki.
 
MonkeyOfLife said:
Same with luffy.... Of course he won't sense her shotting while fighting someone who has near the same observation haki as him...

It accelerated and kept on stretching which he didn't know was going to happen since he is focusing on defending and observing luffy that's in front of him... plus luffy has observation haki... This is the point where luffy was the closest to katakuri's observation haki.
Click to expand...
That just means his sensory haki isn't as great as Sanji's. Just how it is.
 
Couldn't it just be that they were both fatigued that's why they couldn't sense her? Iirc luffy said kats observation was getting weaker/slower
 
Kidkinsey said:
Couldn't it just be that they were both fatigued that's why they couldn't sense her? Iirc luffy said kats observation was getting weaker/slower
Click to expand...
By that point Katakuri had barely taken any damage, it's very unlikely he was fatigued.
 
Also, i just want to add that even without the RS Kata isn't going to take the edge before he starts to use his 6C moves, this version of Sanji is better than round 1 Luffy (G1-3) in AP and Dura, has FS from the get go and has better speed, this does mean Kata could take him more seriously from the get go as well but it does not mean he would instantly use his strongest attack (he would likely go for edged mochi IMO).

And i checked Luffy's fight with Kata, he was able to transform in the middle of one of Kata's attacks after hitting him in the face for the first time, Luffy seeing his face did also add to that but it's not impossible for Sanji to see his face (DJ may burn his scarf after all) so it's yet another way for to Sanji buy time to wear the RS and as i said before hitting Kata is an actual thing Sanji can do via changing the future he sees (it's harder w/o RS, but not impossible).

All that said, i will go with Sanji FRA unless someone can prove that finding an opening to wear the RS is the less likely scenario.
 
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XDragnoir said:
All that said, i will go with Sanji FRA unless someone can prove that finding an opening to wear the RS is the less likely scenario.
Click to expand...
TauanVictor said:
Sanji FRA
Click to expand...
MonkeyOfLife said:
Sanji FRA
Click to expand...
StrawHatArslan said:
Cin couldn’t have said it better tbh, for the reasons he provided for Katakuri’s awakening, I vote kata atm
Click to expand...
CinCameron20 said:
It's weird to me, but without Awakening, Katakuri could actually lose this... but with it, he should be able to win mid-high difficulty since he's got superior speed (massive ? mark here on that one tbf), future-sight, and superior Armament.
Click to expand...
KingTempest said:
Nvm Sanji’s Kenbun is better, Sanji gg
Click to expand...
I've counted your votes.
 
Eminiteable said:
Katakuri was unable to sense flampe from not that far away, he also struggled with Snakeman's attacks that changed trajectory.
Click to expand...
I mean, to be fair, Luffy didn’t sense Flampe either despite using the fight as a means to enhance his Observation Haki, and similarly to Sanji, he was able to sense the presence of Caribou from a distance away before Sanji and Zoro. It is very weird scene for both of them not to notice Flampe

Not to mention, Snakeman Luffy attacks get faster every time he change trajectory so it would be at a point where Katakuri wouldn’t be able to keep up if Luffy keep at it for an extended period of time.
 
Curious, how likely is Sanji to use his Raid Suit in this fight. This is Sanji at Whole Cake Island who hate the Vinsmoke and their technology. Hell, the moment he got the Raid Suit after the event at WCI, he was considering on tossing it away if it wasn’t for Chopper and Luffy. It seems like a last ditch scenario he would bother using it.
 
KobsterHope07 said:
Curious, how likely is Sanji to use his Raid Suit in this fight. This is Sanji at Whole Cake Island who hate the Vinsmoke and their technology. Hell, the moment he got the Raid Suit after the event at WCI, he was considering on tossing it away if it wasn’t for Chopper and Luffy. It seems like a last ditch scenario he would bother using it.
Click to expand...
If it’s for his captain or something like wining to get back with the crew he will definitely use it to win…
 
KobsterHope07 said:
Curious, how likely is Sanji to use his Raid Suit in this fight. This is Sanji at Whole Cake Island who hate the Vinsmoke and their technology. Hell, the moment he got the Raid Suit after the event at WCI, he was considering on tossing it away if it wasn’t for Chopper and Luffy. It seems like a last ditch scenario he would bother using it.
Click to expand...
This is just my opinion, but it seems if it's for the sake of his friends he'll use it without issue (Page & King).

In this scenario it's basically the same setting as Luffy vs Katakuri but Luffy is replaced by Sanji, to me this implies he would have an incentive to use it.
 
Eminiteable said:
This is just my opinion, but it seems if it's for the sake of his friends he'll use it without issue (Page & King).

In this scenario it's basically the same setting as Luffy vs Katakuri but Luffy is replaced by Sanji, to me this implies he would have an incentive to use it.
Click to expand...
I see, though I feel like he would do it after being pressured by Katakuri and realizing his own strength isn’t enough and have to rely on technologies from his family but that is my opinion on the matter.

But for the Page 1 part, didn’t he did it because it would mostly hide his identity and he did not want to be recognized. And by the time he got to King, he gotten use it and already know the capabilities, needing it to sneak by King and rescue Momo. And when that objective was done, he just stop wearing the suit and fight normally despite the boost it grants.
 
Eminiteable said:
By that point Katakuri had barely taken any damage, it's very unlikely he was fatigued.
Click to expand...
Wasnt it damn near the end of the fight. The only thing that happened after was she stabbed himself fought base luffy for a while then snakeman. Idk when exactly the statement came though
 
Kidkinsey said:
Wasnt it damn near the end of the fight. The only thing that happened after was she stabbed himself fought base luffy for a while then snakeman. Idk when exactly the statement came though
Click to expand...
Yeah the only thing that happened after that point was him stabbing himself and him consistently getting hit by Luffy from that point onward.
 
XDragnoir said:
Well, i really doubt speed will be a problem for any side but Sanji's feat vs Kata was really casual so no Sanji isn't < Kata in speed.


When you say Kenbu you are talking about FS or just Kenbu in general?


The real question is how Sanji will wear the RS, the best he can do is get some distance using DJ's speed boost (wearing it mid-air also helps, the mirror world isn't big enough for this to be a perfect solution but at this distance evading Kata's attacks until he can wear the RS wouldn't be a problem).

If Sanji is able to wear the RS then i can't see Kata taking the edge:
  1. RS doesn't need any concentration or energy to increase his Dura so Sanji can focus in how to deal with the pseudo-logia trick and other things;
  2. We have seen Sanji changing Kata's future once so he wouldn't be totally unable to bypass the pseudo-logia as it relies in seeing what will happen;
  3. Add superior speed and invisibility (to take advantage of Kata's low level sensory) and Sanji will be able to consistently hit Kata
  4. The offensive/defensive (not the AP/Dura stats) is also in Sanji's side, Kata needs to either block with haki or "trick" Sanji's attacks, both methods aren't perfect, while Kata's attacks can be evaded (speed+invi+fs+flight) and blocking isn't going to drain as much for Sanji as it will to Kata
If we can't agree with Sanji ability/inability to wear the RS it's pretty much a incon, if we actually agree to take a side it's pretty much the one who will win.

Also, i have no idea why he wouldn't be able to use DJ with the RS, do we have any statement saying it's impossible or something like that?
Click to expand...
1) When Katakuri shot the jelly bean, it traveled a vast distance compared to the mere half-meter-or-so distance Sanji needed to move to avoid it. He has no business scaling comparable to equal to Katakuri by dodging a projectile that moved further than he did. The profile doesn't even support Sanji = Katakuri in speed, btw.

2) The future isn't written in stone, but Katakuri will be able to act faster than Sanji based on superior FS in general.

3) Again, Sanji doesn't have superior speed. The profile gives him Possibly Rel+ speed for dodging Katakuri's projectile, but this is not to imply he is by any means equal to him. Just fast enough to avoid attacks, and with context in mind, able to dodge attacks from a fair distance away with no problem. Even with the Raid Suit boost, that's not enough to suggest he is equal or superior to Katakuri in that field.

4) We just never seen Diable Jambe being used with the suit, and it is fair to assume the use of DJ could damage or interfere with the suit's mechanisms in some way. We have to wait for the manga or databook to reveal he can use it no problem.

Also, you guys really gonna disregard the idea that Katakuri would try to steal the RS canister away, even more-so if Sanji has a moment of hesitation in using it? If he's against the Awakened powers of Katakuri and loses access to the suit, he loses pretty harshly.
 
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