• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Venuzdonoa/Anos possible downgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
Worthless said:
Again that's an NLF. All of creations usually only refers to a one universe, sure some refers to all universe but not In this case, since It's kinda doubting if he can really destroy including the silver sea.

The OP already pointed it, that anos made the "all of creation" statement before the silver sea was introduced. Insanely vague, and most of it is an assumption that leads to no limit fallacy. This'll just repeat over and over, so I'm out. I still think it's an NLF.

And yes Multiverse does exist in the novel I've mentioned.
Click to expand...
Prove it, to say Venuzdonoa can kill STTGL or TOAA cuz "it can destroy everything" is an NLF, but "all" means "all" in the verse is not. You need to prove it ain't, while its description already suggests it is. Give example of fictions where they depicted all of creation as one universe in multiversal cosmology.
 
GreatIskandar14045 said:
I already did, quote me where the world does refer to planet in this case, if I'm not mistaken, earth and the near-infinite sky is what the world is.
Click to expand...
With me paraphrasing, the quote said that above the sky and below the earth there is a black sky, which refers to the infinite black skies. The quote differentiated between the sky that was part of the world and the infinite black sky that was above it.
 
''Venuzdonoa is stated to destroy all things, so, it can kill The Creator''
this is a NLF, but this doesnt apply on the verse, if a character is stated to be able to destroy EVERYTHING on the verse, so he can, unless its proved otherwise
 
AncientKing95 said:
You can't actually be serious right now, did you not read my comment? Did you not click the 'Click to expand' part? Or did you still click and read through it and still not think that it was proof?
Click to expand...
if you are just gonna refer that world means Planet then make a Tensura downgrade thread.
 
I said before too, it would be NLF if Anos said that "it can destroy everything in creation" but in the end he never proves anything, and he always goes around proving that everything he says is true.... I don't see Fallacy in "it can destroy everything in creation".
 
GreatIskandar14045 said:
Prove it, to say Venuzdonoa can kill STTGL or TOAA cuz "it can destroy everything" is an NLF, but "all" means "all" in the verse is not. You need to prove it ain't, while its description already suggests it is. Give example of fictions where they depicted all of creation as one universe in multiversal cosmology.
Click to expand...
It doesn't even matter what the cosmology is, what matters is what Anos was referring to, as he was the one making the statement, not an objective narrator. Anos didn't even know that another world existed, much less the entire Silver Sea at the time of making the statement. He was just referring to his world.
 

GreatIskandar14045 said:
Prove it, to say Venuzdonoa can kill STTGL or TOAA cuz "it can destroy everything" is an NLF, but "all" means "all" in the verse is not. You need to prove it ain't, while its description already suggests it is. Give example of fictions where they depicted all of creation as one universe in multiversal cosmology.
Click to expand...
The "all" is only within where he residing that's more solid than your "Including the silver sea" without any actual evidence except the NLF statements about him capable of destroying "all" in his verse without any feats to back your claims. Haha your statements fits the criteria for NLF and Yes i already did give the example: Go read clearing an isekai or i was caught up in hero summoning. Also stop insisting that NLF statements to everyone, that's all.
 
So let me get this straight.

All of creation =/= all of creation, but all of creation = one universe ?
And world =/= universe, but world = planet ?

So we downgrading Anos to planet level now?
 
AncientKing95 said:
With me paraphrasing, the quote said that above the sky and below the earth there is a black sky, which refers to the infinite black skies. The quote differentiated between the sky that was part of the world and the infinite black sky that was above it.
Click to expand...
And the said black sky is literally something stretched out infinitely but ultimately is still the part of the world? Did I miss something?

'That being the Creator God? You mind telling us directly what the end of the world looks like?

'All right.

Misha stood up and walked forward, sending her magic to the blackboard.

'Above the sky and below the earth, a black dome stretches out.

What was added around the world drawn on the blackboard was a black sky, a black dome.

'The farther you go from this earth, the more the black dome is stretched and the closer you get to nothingness. It is here, in this near-infinite sky, that the divine world is located.

AncientKing95 said:
It doesn't even matter what the cosmology is, what matters is what Anos was referring to, as he was the one making the statement, not an objective narrator. Anos didn't even know that another world existed, much less the entire Silver Sea at the time of making the statement. He was just referring to his world.
Click to expand...
It does, matter. If his power has been presented to able to destroy worlds, and destroy/affect the deeper worlds, and he wasn't even using Venuzdonoa at that time then his statement asserting "all" means "all" still stands.
 
imZer0Null said:
So let me get this straight.

All of creation =/= all of creation, but all of creation = one universe ?
And world =/= universe, but world = planet ?

So we downgrading Anos to planet level now?
Click to expand...
Yes, the downgrade sounds fine to me, and u have no proof that this planet is planet level, I think that 8-B is more safe to him
 
imZer0Null said:
So let me get this straight.

All of creation =/= all of creation, but all of creation = one universe ?
And world =/= universe, but world = planet ?

So we downgrading Anos to planet level now?
Click to expand...
Yes, all of creation referred to only everything within that bubble. There is not a single reason that you should find this hard to believe.

Another yes. How have you read the story and thought that world never referred to planet
 
Worthless said:
The "all" is only within where he residing that's more solid than your "Including the silver sea" without any actual evidence except the NLF statements about him capable of destroying "all" in his verse without any feats to back your claims. Haha your statements fits the criteria for NLF and Yes i already did give the example: Go read clearing an isekai or i was caught up in hero summoning.
Click to expand...
Give. Example. Or. Quote.
This would be the third time I asked you.

Regarding "all" doesn't mean "all" especially he when does refers to "the creation", you need an anti-feat, which something you haven't give but spouting this NLF nonsense.

Worthless said:
Also stop insisting that NLF statements to everyone, that's all.
Click to expand...
I mean, you are the one who talk.
 
GreatIskandar14045 said:
And the said black sky is literally something stretched out infinitely but ultimately is still the part of the world? Did I miss something?

'That being the Creator God? You mind telling us directly what the end of the world looks like?

'All right.

Misha stood up and walked forward, sending her magic to the blackboard.

'Above the sky and below the earth, a black dome stretches out.

What was added around the world drawn on the blackboard was a black sky, a black dome.

'The farther you go from this earth, the more the black dome is stretched and the closer you get to nothingness. It is here, in this near-infinite sky, that the divine world is located.


It does, matter. If his power has been presented to able to destroy worlds, and destroy/affect the deeper worlds, and he wasn't even using Venuzdonoa at that time then his statement asserting "all" means "all" still stands.
Click to expand...
The author differentiated between the sky that was apart of the world and the infinite black sky that exists beyond that.

Whether he was using Venuzdonoa or not is irrelevant. Nobody's arguing that Venuzdonoa can't destroy deeper worlds. I'm arguing that it can't destroy the entire Silver Sea. Anos hasn't even destroyed a single bubble yet, much less multiple bubbles, much less an entire layer, much less multiple layers, much less the entire Silver Sea.
 
Gods this downgrade argument seems desperate lol

One who can't provide the world being planet is not giving us the exact scan where it's been treated as ordinary planet

Also if it's sound NLF (for me too) you must provide scan for why Venuzdonoa shouldn't be able to affect the entire silver sea

You miss the whole point why Venuzdonoa being created, there's many statement that Venuzdonoa destroy anything because venuz naturally doesn't need a reason for it to destroy something

I don't want to read long nitpicking argument and false equalivence (inba isekai)
 
GreatIskandar14045 said:
Give. Example. Or. Quote.
This would be the third time I asked you.

Regarding "all" doesn't mean "all" especially he when does refers to "the creation", you need an anti-feat, which something you haven't give but spouting this NLF nonsense.


I mean, you are the one who talk.
Click to expand...
You need to give an example that his all of creation statement refers to the entire Silver Sea when he didn't even know it existed at that point in time.
 
Lormac_CC said:
This is my first CRT. I believe Venuzdonoa shouldn't be 2-B.

Here's why

Note: Every scan and translation were gotten from past CRTs, the accepted cosmology blog for the verse and Anos page as I am not quite knowledgeable on the verse.

Reason why Venuzdonoa is 2-B

"Venuzdonoa can destroy all things in creation, no matter how strong, eternal or infinite they are"

I find problems in this statement been scaled to the entire Silversea for some reasons

1. Anos had not known about the existence of the Sliversea when he made this statement. Meaning he had no knowledge of creation outside of what he knew as creation which is the militia world.

2. Venuzdonoa is actually the order of destruction of the militia world, so it would sense for him to talk about the sword in such manner.

I can see counter arguments like "Since Venuzdonoa hasn't underperformed within worlds in the Silversea, the statement about it destroying all things in creation should scale to the silver sea".

Which could make sense if you ignore the fact that he had no knowledge of the silver sea, but I believe Venuzdonoa still been able to destroy things in the Silver sea is due to the fact that Anos is a Misfit.

A Misfit that exists outside the world's framework, order, reason and logic altogether.

This scan supports my agurment

"In this little world, which exists deeper than your little world, the power of all things is in another dimension. Strength, speed, stubbornness, magic, everything. Even a grain of air is a weight to you. If I unleash a spell to destroy your shallow world, it won't be able to destroy a single ship here."

"No, no. No, this is not possible. A person from the shallow world, much less a dweller from the first layer world, would crush the ship with a single step, no matter where you look in this Silver Sea, such an order does not exist!"

This statement proves that Anos can destroy things within a world of a deep layer in the Silversea because he doesn't follow that world's order.

Quote from the blog:

Order:

The various laws that make up the world, or the power of the gods that keep these laws normal. There are various orders such as “time”, “creation”, and “destruction”.

Order are the laws that define how the universe works or the concepts that maintain how these laws function

Both scans show that orders are bounded to universes, in each world, there is an order which is bounded to that world. This is all fine and good but here is the problem, There isn't an order that bounds whole layers nor is their an order that bounds the entire Sliversea. Hence, he shouldn't be 2-B

Conclusion:
Since Venuzdonoa hasn't performed any Multiversal feat, it should be rated as low 2-C till their are actual feats to justify the 2-B rating.
Click to expand...
Agree tbh, also...
Lormac_CC said:
This is my first CRT. I believe Venuzdonoa shouldn't be 2-B.

Here's why

Note: Every scan and translation were gotten from past CRTs, the accepted cosmology blog for the verse and Anos page as I am not quite knowledgeable on the verse.

Reason why Venuzdonoa is 2-B

"Venuzdonoa can destroy all things in creation, no matter how strong, eternal or infinite they are"

I find problems in this statement been scaled to the entire Silversea for some reasons

1. Anos had not known about the existence of the Sliversea when he made this statement. Meaning he had no knowledge of creation outside of what he knew as creation which is the militia world.

2. Venuzdonoa is actually the order of destruction of the militia world, so it would sense for him to talk about the sword in such manner.

I can see counter arguments like "Since Venuzdonoa hasn't underperformed within worlds in the Silversea, the statement about it destroying all things in creation should scale to the silver sea".

Which could make sense if you ignore the fact that he had no knowledge of the silver sea, but I believe Venuzdonoa still been able to destroy things in the Silver sea is due to the fact that Anos is a Misfit.

A Misfit that exists outside the world's framework, order, reason and logic altogether.

This scan supports my agurment

"In this little world, which exists deeper than your little world, the power of all things is in another dimension. Strength, speed, stubbornness, magic, everything. Even a grain of air is a weight to you. If I unleash a spell to destroy your shallow world, it won't be able to destroy a single ship here."

"No, no. No, this is not possible. A person from the shallow world, much less a dweller from the first layer world, would crush the ship with a single step, no matter where you look in this Silver Sea, such an order does not exist!"

This statement proves that Anos can destroy things within a world of a deep layer in the Silversea because he doesn't follow that world's order.

Quote from the blog:

Order:

The various laws that make up the world, or the power of the gods that keep these laws normal. There are various orders such as “time”, “creation”, and “destruction”.

Order are the laws that define how the universe works or the concepts that maintain how these laws function

Both scans show that orders are bounded to universes, in each world, there is an order which is bounded to that world. This is all fine and good but here is the problem, There isn't an order that bounds whole layers nor is their an order that bounds the entire Sliversea. Hence, he shouldn't be 2-B

Conclusion:
Since Venuzdonoa hasn't performed any Multiversal feat, it should be rated as low 2-C till their are actual feats to justify the 2-B rating.
Click to expand...
Agree, also

"Venuzdonoa can destroy all things in creation, no matter how strong, eternal or infinite they are"

This state is absolutely hyper bole lmao
 
AncientKing95 said:
You need to give an example that his all of creation statement refers to the entire Silver Sea when he didn't even know it existed at that point in time.
Click to expand...
We don't need proof he was refering to it, we just have to know if it can affect it.
Oblivion_Of_The_Endless said:
-Venuzdonoa can still neatly function in deeper layers, so its not limited to a single universe destruction.
-Anos' Egil Grone Angdroa is able to destroy hundreds of thousands of universes with it.
-Anos destroyed the Abyssal Thirst with his Chaotic Eye (which is more powerful than venuzdonoa). Abyssal Thirst relies deeper than the 21th layer, which would still be a 2-B feat.
Click to expand...
 
RamadhanDayYet said:
Gods this downgrade argument seems desperate lol

One who can't provide the world being planet is not giving us the exact scan where it's been treated as ordinary planet

Also if it's sound NLF (for me too) you must provide scan for why Venuzdonoa shouldn't be able to affect the entire silver sea

You miss the whole point why Venuzdonoa being created, there's many statement that Venuzdonoa destroy anything because venuz naturally doesn't need a reason for it to destroy something

I don't want to read long nitpicking argument and false equalivence (inba isekai)
Click to expand...
Again, read post #112 (make sure to 'Click to expand') and use your head a little.
 
GreatIskandar14045 said:
We don't need proof he was refering to it, we just have to know if it can affect it.
Click to expand...
Here's the thing, we don't even have proof that Anos himself can affect the Silver Sea, much less an entire layer. The most that Anos has ever done is affect a single deep world within a deep layer, never an entire layer itself.
 
Saying all of creation = one universe isn't correct.

All of creation is a very broad term, and usually means something like all of existence. (Official English Manga actually used the word existence instead of creation)

Lets say I was in a single room in a building, and this building has countless rooms.
I think this one room is the entire building tho.
If I say that I can destroy the entire building, no matter how strong, eternal or infinite it is, then what I thought the building was is completely irrelevant, since I literally stated no matter how strong, eternal or infinite this building is, I can destroy it.

If I then spend an entire month in this building without destroying the building, but I've been able to destroying anything else in this building thus far effortlessly, does that suddenly mean that I can't destroy the building?
 
AncientKing95 said:
Here's the thing, we don't even have proof that Anos himself can affect the Silver Sea, much less an entire layer. The most that Anos has ever done is affect a single deep world within a deep layer, never an entire layer itself.
Click to expand...
Because venuzdonoa affects only what Anos wants to specifically affect. You expect him to unnecessarily destroy everyone on a whim?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

AnosVoldigoadDemonKing
Anos Magic Eyes and Venuzdonoa Revision
Replies
16
Views
3K
AnosVoldigoadDemonKing
AnosVoldigoadDemonKing
AnosVoldigoadDemonKing
  • Locked
Additions for Anos Voldigoad
Replies
7
Views
3K
AnosVoldigoadDemonKing
AnosVoldigoadDemonKing
fandom_29dan
  • Locked
Maou Gakuin; In An Overarching View of the Light Novel's Scaling
Replies
5
Views
3K
EldemadeDityjon
EldemadeDityjon
Tatsumi504
  • Locked
Maou Gakuin: Anos and Cosmology Additions
2 3
Replies
85
Views
10K
Tatsumi504
Tatsumi504
Guileal
Anos Voldigoad Immortality Type 6 removal
Replies
29
Views
3K
Tatsumi504
Tatsumi504
Back
Top