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Venuzdonoa/Anos possible downgrade

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Guileal said:
Well, come on, I would like a proof that Venuzdonoa does not act with the same power in the other layers, well, a proof that refutes this is the fact that she was able to cut the Abyssal Thrist of the Abyssal World, which is as deep as the 99+ layers.


Another thing is that each layer contains countless universes within it which would qualify any one of them as a Multiversal level.
The first world-destroying spell of the Years is said to be able to destroy it hundreds of thousands of times There are several other things that refute this but I will let other members answer, I am busy with TnY
Click to expand...

Tbh countless dosent mean infinite to me tho.

Prolly just a large number that can't be counted like innumerable,but wth.
 
Dereck03 said:
having said that what anos said about venuzdonoa (including whether or not he knew about the existence of the silver sea), Venuzdonoa can destroy all things in creation, no matter how strong, eternal or infinite they are, still includes everything since anos and venuzdunoa have not faced anything that they cannot destroy, the only thing that venuzdonoa has not been able to destroy is anos himself, and that is why it is specified that anos is far superior to venuzdonoa
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The sword couldn't bypass 2-B.
 
I'm still confused about how people are using the "eternal, infinite" statement to conclude that Venuzdonoa can destroy the entire Silver Sea. The "eternal, infinte" part lost it's legitimacy once it enters the Silver Sea, a place that Anos had no knowledge about beforehand. Saying "infinite means infinite regardless" doesn't really apply here, as the rest of the Silver Sea functions very differently from the tiny (in comparison) Militia World.
 
Dereck03 said:
Well, it may sound NLF, so all those who agree to the upgrade and those who continue to defend the argument I don't know what they are thinking then, NLF would be him saying that but not destroying anything, Venuzdonoa has proven to destroy everything he has faced (except for anos).
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Tbh,I don't see it as 2-B.
 
AncientKing95 said:
I'm still confused about how people are using the "eternal, infinite" statement to conclude that Venuzdonoa can destroy the entire Silver Sea. The "eternal, infinte" part lost it's legitimacy once it enters the Silver Sea, a place that Anos had no knowledge about beforehand. Saying "infinite means infinite regardless" doesn't really apply here, as the rest of the Silver Sea functions very differently from the tiny (in comparison) Militia World.
Click to expand...
You really understand what you are saying? venuzdonoa has not lost its legitimacy, just because the silver sea is not infinite and eternal, "Although each layer has an infinite size according to the author" to what you are saying is that they are not infinite but countless universes.
 
Another thing, world doesn't always mean universe. We only know that "world" can sometimes mean universe because "world" is sometimes used to refer to an entire bubble and an entire bubble qualifies as a universe. However, the term world doesn't always refer to the entire bubble. In the first place, characters didn't even know what bubbles were Pre-Silver Sea, and still used the term world. The term universe was also used, meaning that they distinguished between the world and the universe, meaning that they were referring to the planet when they said world. "Earth" wasn't used to describe the world, it was used to refer to the ground. For one, they don't live on nor call their world Earth. For two, in general Earth can be used to describe the ground, as in dirt, grass, etc.
 
AncientKing95 said:
Another thing, world doesn't always mean universe. We only know that "world" can sometimes mean universe because "world" is sometimes used to refer to an entire bubble and an entire bubble qualifies as a universe. However, the term world doesn't always refer to the entire bubble. In the first place, characters didn't even know what bubbles were Pre-Silver Sea, and still used the term world. The term universe was also used, meaning that they distinguished between the world and the universe, meaning that they were referring to the planet when they said world. "Earth" wasn't used to describe the world, it was used to refer to the ground. For one, they don't live on nor call their world Earth. For two, in general Earth can be used to describe the ground, as in dirt, grass, etc.
Click to expand...
In this verse the meaning of World has already been specified as universes.
 
Dereck03 said:
You really understand what you are saying? venuzdonoa has not lost its legitimacy, just because the silver sea is not infinite and eternal, "Although each layer has an infinite size according to the author" to what you are saying is that they are not infinite but countless universes.
Click to expand...
What I'm saying is that Venuzdonoa being able to destroy anything no matter how eternal or infinite is only 100% applicable in the Militia World. There's nothing to prove that this statement still holds true in the rest of the Silver Sea. As for "it hasn't been shown to be any weaker in the Silver Sea", it hasn't really done shit in the Silver Sea.
 
AncientKing trying to downgrade the verse again...

All translations for Venuzdonoa's description says something like "Venuzdonoa can destroy all things in creation, regardless of how strong, eternal or infinite they are".
People have argued before that Anos didn't know the Silver Sea exists when he made this statement, meaning it isn't part of the creation he was talking about, but that's irrelevant since Anos said "...regardless of how strong, eternal or infinite they are", meaning regardless of how strong, eternal or infinite he thought creation was, Venuzdonoa would still be able to destroy it.
People have also argued before that because of the difference between layers Venuzdonoa wouldn't be able to destroy all things in creation, but that's also irrelevant since Venuzdonoa has functioned perfectly fine in deeper layers and is actually stated to be a deep magic.

"'A sword that cuts shadows and turns them into magic circles-no. This is magic that disturbs order.'

Kostoria immediately discovers the characteristics of Venuzdonoa and approaches its abyss.

'We use the power of the god of destruction to build the technique. No. It's just a seal to control the power. The essence of magic is deeper and deeper.'"

- WN Chapter 527
Click to expand...

Venuzdonoa has no actual feat of destroying the Silver Sea, but it has statements that says it can.
 
AncientKing95 said:
What I'm saying is that Venuzdonoa being able to destroy anything no matter how eternal or infinite is only 100% applicable in the Militia World. There's nothing to prove that this statement still holds true in the rest of the Silver Sea. As for "it hasn't been shown to be any weaker in the Silver Sea", it hasn't really done shit in the Silver Sea.
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Do I really have to start again from here?... Please try to inform yourself more before commenting, because it is obvious that you do not know about the verse in question.
 
Dereck03 said:
You really understand what you are saying? venuzdonoa has not lost its legitimacy, just because the silver sea is not infinite and eternal, "Although each layer has an infinite size according to the author" to what you are saying is that they are not infinite but countless universes.
Click to expand...
You guys take author statements in this wiki,cool.
 
World:

A term often used in the verse, with various meanings. While world usually refers to a universe, there are certain times when it also refers to a planet, though this is rare. The Author of Maou Gakuin usually uses the word Earth to refer to a planet, and thus it's completely safe to assume that world means universe in the various different statements, unless specifically stated to be otherwise or contradicted by other statements.
Click to expand...
 
imZer0Null said:
AncientKing trying to downgrade the verse again...

All translations for Venuzdonoa's description says something like "Venuzdonoa can destroy all things in creation, regardless of how strong, eternal or infinite they are".
People have argued before that Anos didn't know the Silver Sea exists when he made this statement, meaning it isn't part of the creation he was talking about, but that's irrelevant since Anos said "...regardless of how strong, eternal or infinite they are", meaning regardless of how strong, eternal or infinite he thought creation was, Venuzdonoa would still be able to destroy it.
People have also argued before that because of the difference between layers Venuzdonoa wouldn't be able to destroy all things in creation, but that's also irrelevant since Venuzdonoa has functioned perfectly fine in deeper layers and is actually stated to be a deep magic.



Venuzdonoa has no actual feat of destroying the Silver Sea, but it has statements that says it can.
Click to expand...
Uh, no. That isn't irrelevant. He was 100% sure of Venuzdonoa's capabilities in the Militia World. That doesn't go for the rest of the Silver Sea.
 
That isn't proof of anything. Whoever wrote that interpreted it that way, that doesn't mean they're correct. Are you trying to tell me that the author was using world to refer to universe Pre-Silver Sea? If so, where's your proof?
 
AncientKing95 said:
That isn't proof of anything. Whoever wrote that interpreted it that way, that doesn't mean they're correct. Are you trying to tell me that the author was using world to refer to universe Pre-Silver Sea? If so, where's your proof?
Click to expand...
When Gili Eliam Naviem was first used, "World" was used, alongside the mention of stars and the Sun, so not limited to planets
 
Dereck03 said:
Why wouldn't it be 2-B? just because you don't see it that way? at least explain why?
Click to expand...
When anos made the statement on how Venuzdonoa works be didn't know about silver sea plus it stated to be able to destroy all things in creation and the universe itself I don't see it = 2-B
 
AncientKing95 said:
Uh, no. That isn't irrelevant. He was 100% sure of Venuzdonoa's capabilities in the Militia World. That doesn't go for the rest of the Silver Sea.
Click to expand...
It is 100% irrelevant. He literally said regardless of how strong, eternal or infinite creation is, he can destroy it, meaning "creation" isn't limited to the Militia world.
 
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