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Upgrading the Dragonball Z characters

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Antvasima

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Since this topic tends to pop up a lot, sometimes in inappropriate places, here is a separate thread where most of the discussion should preferably go. Stefano4444 made a lot of comprehensive posts about this, which I found convincing, and for example posted this video regarding that Beerus seems capable of destroying 1/5th of a universe. [1]

In addition, there are other matters which have been brought up by others that do not make any sense, such as Broly only being placed at star level and sub-relativistic speed, yet he somehow managed to destroy a few hundred billion stars in a galaxy presumably spanning over 100000 lightyears in just two decades or so. Again, this does not make sense to me either, so I suggest that we should move up Beerus to high 3-B, Broly to high 4-A, and start power scaling from there.
 
Let's start with DBZ first. We can discuss GT later.
 
i believe Broly should be high 4-A as it does make sense, as for Beerus some people i talk to have said that Akira Toryiama might have mean't the Kaioshinn Planet as the realm is either filled with stars or empty space, but other than that if we do accecpt it which i wouldn't mind then 3-B is good place to him at
 
I stopped watching the video regarding bills after the first sentence, since 1 bills galaxy busting was a mistranslation and 2. he's using non-canon stuff like dragonball SD, now granted I'm not sure if you include non-canon in these character profile pages, but canon and non-canon heavily contradicts eachother.
 
Well, what I am interested in is that Toriyama has stated in an interview that Beerus could destroy the Kaioshin realm, which is 1/5th the size of the universe, and this was several million years ago, so he is most likely stronger now. Of course, the Dragonball universe only has 4 galaxies, so it is most likely smaller than ours, but power scaling from Buu, who destroyed a galaxy in the anime, he should still be 3-B I think.
 
Bills also feared the elder kai at that point and that's why he sealed him or something like that iirc. Buu > Elder Kai and Buu didn't destroy a galaxy in canon and the kai's certainly can't..It's basically a big ass contradiction and you can only accept if if you accept non-canon + a bunch of inconsistencies.
 
Well, I agree about the sealing being a contradiction, due to Toriyama apparently not remembering the specifics of stating that whoever sealed elder Kai in that sword was not as bad as Buu (accounts differ regarding whether the correct translation was "as evil as" or "as strong as" Buu) but even if you disregard the anime, Beerus officially being able to destroy 1/5th of the universe, smaller than ours or not, when likely far weaker than currently, is hard to disregard.
 
So strongest person in db bills goes from solar system from a statement to solar system+ to 1/5th of a universe, that's a big difference and it really doesn't make that much sense either. I'm sorry, but I won't buy it till they properly tell me or show it to me. If Bills gets put at 1/5th universe without much of a good reason aside from what you said, I give up on this.
 
Well, there were those galactic showing from Broly and Buu in the anime as well. But we should probably keep the anime and manga continuities separate. It all turns a bit confused regarding whether we should count Beerus as part of the anime or manga, or both?
 
Well, Broly and Janemba aren't part of canon, so I think that separate columns for the anime statistics might be appropriate.
 
Yeah, probably. Broly and Janemba weren't ever in the canon storyline though, but bills is. That's why it's confusing.

You can make up whatever you want about non-canon characters if it's shown in non-canon, but if it's canon you strictly follow the canon.
 
Word from author is as valid as a feat unless it is contredicted by the work itself, and the gaps between jumps in power isn't relevant at all, also beerus didn't seal supreme because he feared him, he did so because they have got into an argument and beerus got angry....
 
We need to consult a wiki member who knows Japanese properly. Almost every new Toriyama interview or new Databook (or Daizenshuu) brings about added controversies due to so called 'mistranslations'. Without an authentic Japanese speaker, it is impossible to determine the exact meaning of any statement and judge if a statement from Toriyama is being exaggerated or downplayed post translation.

Till confirmed authentication from a legit Japanese speaking Wiki member, Bills destroying 1/5 of a universe claim should be noted but not powerscaled yet. I also wish this wiki to be as accurate as possible, however we don't need an immediate revision at the smallest piece of new proof. As for Broly, he is not part of the cano so powerscaling off of him is folly to say the least (as for destroying a galaxy with sub-relativistic speed, Broly could always travel using a Saiyan spaceship which were shown to be massively FTL).


One of the biggest problems with Dragon Ball (and many long-running franchises) is the confusion of canon material. As far as I know, manga characters are to be based entirely on the primary canon, which is just the manga itself. In the Dragon Ball verse, Battle of Gods is considered primary canon due to Word of God. As such, secondary canon such as Dragon Ball anime-only characters and feats (eg: GT Characters, Gogeta, Broly, Janemba, etc.), movie charcters and feats (apart from BoG, that is) need to be completely seperate from the main storyline itself. Tertiary canon material like Dragon Ball SD need not be considered at all.

Solution to the current dilemma?


Well, in my opinion, the Dragon Ball GT (both the category and characters) needs to be renamed to Dragon Ball (Anime) in which we can include all anime-only feats, GT Characters and movie characters as well. This way, the characters can have a page for their canon power levels (primary canon, for the manga enthusiasts) and another page for their non-canon power levels (secondary canon, for the anime adaptation enthusiasts).
 
Well, I think that this sounds reasonable Kavpeny. I have renamed the Dragonball anime only pages.

As for XRap, I think that I answered much the same exact post in another thread regarding the 4 galaxies probably being roughly the same size as ours. I agree with you that the Dragonball characters should be upgraded, but not nearly to multiverse levels as you do. [1]
 
dbu is as big as opur universe (there is some dispute to whether they hae 4 quadrants or 4 huuuge galaxies).THe beerus busting kaoi realm had to be quick to be an option, otherwise the old man would escape in seconds, thus leaving it a shame to beerus for being unable to take revenge. So it had e done in seconds, if it were an option (which it was)- there is my case to this
 
I am afraid that I have not been presented any evidence that the Dragonball galaxies are larger than our own, just statements about the star systems combining into nebulas which combine into galaxies, with nebulas being far smaller than galaxies in our world as well, as well as a wiki statement that the North Galaxy is equivalent to our Milky Way Galaxy. My apologies, but I cannot make changes based on pure opinion and speculation. Sorry. Also, until at least one other admin is convinced, I cannot even upgrade the Dragonball profiles at all, even though I would like to.
 
even so, i think we could change the speed of whis (even if you considered the distances he traveled to be approx. 500,000 light years, whis covered that in minutes, making him hundreds of millions to low billions of times light speed)
 
I agree with this, although our galaxy is "only" 100000-120000 lightyears across. Where did you get 500000 from? If it is true that Whis covered that kind of distance in 5 minutes or so, it would place him at 60 (minutes) × 24 (hours) × 365 (days) × 500000 (lightyears) / 5 (minutes) = 52.56 billion times the speed of light in flight speed.
 
intergalactic distance and the distance from kaio planet to edge of universe, it was estimated, even if you took 100k light years as the distance, you still get hundreds of millions of times ftl speed
 
So there would two version of powerscale from Dragon Ball?

One if we use only the canon stuff (Manga + Battle of Gods + Revival of F + Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!).

The other if we use also the non canon stuff (Anime + Movies + GT).
 
@Stefano4444 (The first post) Pretty much, yes, but again, I have been trying to convince Rocks and Seiryu to allow me to upgrade the profiles, and so far they don't seem to want me to.
 
Well, the Star Wars universe is very similar to ours, whereas the one in Dragonball has a very different structure going by the maps that were displayed today and yesterday.
 
yeah, the dbu sits below the other world and along with parallelel realms in an arrangement called the macrocosm


the supreme kai realm orbits it


so there are 12 such macrocosm systems in all
 
But wouldn't Goku have to be brought up he matched 70% of Beerus power as A Super Saiyan God not to mention he did it even after the transformation ended
 
well, scalingwise, fat buu could fodderize spc

and chou gohan could fodderize fat buu

and vegito could fodderize chou gohan


so vegito ssj should be 4-A
 
yup, vegito, buuhan, heck even ssj3 goku from BOG are many times stronger than spc and hence multi - solar system level in potency
 
Well, I hope that the other admins listen to this thread and others, as I don't think that this wiki is being fair to the Dragon Ball franchise.
 
Thank you, but this one is already a lot of work. I have had a lot of interruptions, but I will try to return to converting various profiles to the new ranking system in the coming week. The Anime Characters Fight wiki is incredibly indepth analytical and extensive compared to ours, and they have been kind enough to give me permission to copy their profiles of higher-ranked characters.
 
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